when are we getting our billions back from the welfare whores in ukraine and israel?

[QUOTE=diamenz;15026893]when two allied countries share similar interests there's generally no controversy over it. it's when the smaller country, in this case israel, leverages the larger power to act against [I]their[/I] interests is when things get dicey.

as is the case currently in our relationship with israel. I find it funny how you seem to have no issues with how manipulated and bought our government is by this supposed ally of ours.[/QUOTE]

Uh, we have countless money invested in Israel. We're basically their parent company. We have nothing to gain if they are wiped off the map and the other more radical countries take total control of the region. As we speak Trump is trying to help establish a new order in the middle east and unfortunately Iran under current management makes that harder to achieve. We don't want them having a say.

As for Israel secretly being in control of our government, honestly I don't even think you guys know what you're saying anymore. The story has changed so many times I've lost count and that's just in the last few months alone. Not long ago you guys swore up and down that American soldiers were going to be forced to die on Israel's behalf and that WW3 was on the horizon. What do you know, that didn't happen.

Also I'm just really skeptical of any person that unironically uses the word "zionist" as a derogatory term. Like I said it's no different than referring to Americans as "colonizers". It's rooted in the same resentment.

[QUOTE=diamenz;15026892]lmao.

you think we can't thrive on the old adage of peace through strength? just to reiterate, i denounced our [I]imperial[/I] tendencies.

...so what you're saying is that this "position" that you say we're in was achieved by our [B]foreign interventions[/B]? now that's interesting.[/QUOTE]

America is only on top because of it's military and defense capabilities. Like Tony Stark says in Iron Man, "Peace means having a bigger stick than the other guy..."

I'm sorry that the world is not the peaceful utopia you want it to be. This is the reality of the world. It doesn't mean we have to micromanage what's going on in every country around the world, but yes we absolutely have an obligation to take action when it comes to preserving our place on top of the pecking order.

[QUOTE=Baller234;15026909]Uh, we have countless money invested in Israel. We're basically their parent company. We have nothing to gain if they are wiped off the map and the other more radical countries take total control of the region. [B]As we speak Trump is trying to help establish a new order in the middle east[/B] and unfortunately Iran under current management makes that harder to achieve. We don't want them having a say.

As for Israel secretly being in control of our government, honestly I don't even think you guys know what you're saying anymore. The story has changed so many times I've lost count and that's just in the last few months alone. Not long ago you guys swore up and down that American soldiers were going to be forced to die on Israel's behalf and that WW3 was on the horizon. What do you know, that didn't happen.

Also I'm just really skeptical of any person that unironically uses the word "zionist" as a derogatory term. Like I said it's no different than referring to Americans as "colonizers". It's rooted in the same resentment.[/QUOTE]

This has been attempted for decades now, and for various reasons...

It's always perplexing to me why some people wonder why a lot of people in the area hate the US government. It's no secret.

[QUOTE=ShawkFactory;15026911]This has been attempted for decades now, and for various reasons...

It's always perplexing to me why some people wonder why a lot of people in the area hate the US government. It's no secret.[/QUOTE]

What is the alternative? We should just sit back and let every country develop their own nuclear weapons? It's cool if every country gets to have their own nuke? You don't think that's going to cause more of a problem for us?

Seriously, tell me what would have been the better move when it came to Iran.

[QUOTE=Baller234;15026919]What is the alternative? We should just sit back and let every country develop their own nuclear weapons? It's cool if every country gets to have their own nuke? You don't think that's going to cause more of a problem for us?

Seriously, tell me what would have been the better move when it came to Iran.[/QUOTE]

I don't think that nuclear weapons are being developed by anyone in any capacity other than as a self-defense comfort. Like a standard homeowner owning a shotgun, especially knowing that other owners in larger houses (with mindsets like yours) nearby have one. I don't believe there is any offensive purpose.

You sound awfully like one of those super pro-Vietnam War folks in the 60s.

[QUOTE=ShawkFactory;15026926]I don't think that nuclear weapons are being developed by anyone in any capacity other than as a self-defense comfort. Like a standard homeowner owning a shotgun, especially knowing that other owners in larger houses (with mindsets like yours) nearby have one. I don't believe there is any offensive purpose.[/QUOTE]

So you think it would have been better if US and Israel just laid off and let Iran become a nuclear power?

Yes or no.

[QUOTE=Baller234;15026929]So you think it would have been better if US and Israel just laid off and let Iran become a nuclear power?

Yes or no.[/QUOTE]

The US, yes. Israel can do what they want.

[QUOTE=ShawkFactory;15026931]The US, yes. Israel can do what they want.[/QUOTE]

Wait, what gives Israel the right to disarm Iran and not America?

[QUOTE=Baller234;15026932]Wait, what gives Israel the right to disarm Iran and not America?[/QUOTE]

Oh is that what you took from what I said?

I’m not giving them the right (or not right) to do anything. I’m saying they are free to make whatever decision they want, so long as it doesn’t involve us.

[QUOTE=ShawkFactory;15026936]Oh is that what you took from what I said?

I’m not giving them the right (or not right) to do anything. I’m saying they are free to make whatever decision they want, so long as it doesn’t involve us.[/QUOTE]

Uh, what? If you're saying they're free to make whatever decision they want, then yes you are granting them the right to do something.

In this case, you believe Israel has the right to disarm another country. Okay so if they have the right, why shouldn't America?

[QUOTE=Baller234;15026937]Uh, what? If you're saying they're free to make whatever decision they want, then yes you are granting them the right to do something.

In this case, you believe Israel has the right to disarm another country. Okay so if they have the right, why shouldn't America?[/QUOTE]

Okay..you keep getting hung up on whether I’m giving someone the right to do something or not. It’s not relevant to what I’ve said.

If they think it’s a good idea then go for. I don’t think it’s beneficial for us to get involved.

[QUOTE=ShawkFactory;15026938]Okay..you keep getting hung up on whether I’m giving someone the right to do something or not. It’s not relevant to what I’ve said.

If they think it’s a good idea then go for. I don’t think it’s beneficial for us to get involved.[/QUOTE]

If it's not relevant to what you said, why did you say it?

You said that Israel should reserve the right to either disarm or not disarm Iran as they please. Those were your words. You said you didn't care either way.

Okay, so why don't you grant that same right to America? Why is it okay for Israel to disarm another country but not America?

[QUOTE=Baller234;15026940]If it's not relevant to what you said, why did you say it?

You said that Israel should reserve the right to either disarm or not disarm Iran as they please. Those were your words. You said you didn't care either way.

Okay, so why don't you grant that same right to America? Why is it okay for Israel to disarm another country but not America?[/QUOTE]

Read the last sentence of my last post again..

[QUOTE=ShawkFactory;15026942]Read the last sentence of my last post again..[/QUOTE]

"If they think it’s a good idea then go for. I don’t think it’s beneficial for us to get involved."

So if Israel thinks it's a good idea to disarm Iran, you think they should have the right to go for it. But if America thinks it's a good idea to disarm Iran, you [I]don't [/I]think they should have the right to go for it. When America does it, it's bad.

Trump had been saying for years that he was hell bent on Iran not being able to develop nukes. Why shouldn't he have gotten us involved? The threat of U.S. intervention is what made it possible in the first place. It's why Iran had no one to run to and was forced to back down instantly.

[QUOTE=Baller234;15026944]"If they think it’s a good idea then go for. I don’t think it’s beneficial for us to get involved."

So if Israel thinks it's a good idea to disarm Iran, you think they should have the right to go for it. [B]But if America thinks it's a good idea to disarm Iran, you [I]don't [/I]think they should have the right to go for it[/B]. When America does it, it's bad.

Trump had been saying for years that he was hell bent on Iran not being able to develop nukes. Why shouldn't he have gotten us involved? The threat of U.S. intervention is what made it possible in the first place. It's why Iran had no one to run to and was forced to back down instantly.[/QUOTE]

Really strange way to twist this argument..

What does what "America" thinks have to do with my personal opinion on this? I believe it's a poor decision.