Printable View
Good.
This was always going to happen though. Hamas was backed into a corner and had almost no leverage anymore, aside from the hostages.
As always between the two parties in the ME, this certainly won't be the end but it's nice that it's over for now.
[QUOTE=ShawkFactory;15037450]Good.
[b]This was always going to happen though[/b]. Hamas was backed into a corner and had almost no leverage anymore, aside from the hostages.
As always between the two parties in the ME, this certainly won't be the end but it's nice that it's over for now.[/QUOTE]
Surely you're not suggesting that if Kamalluh was running the country that eventually Hamas would've just surrendered, the war would've stopped on its own and hostages would've been released without her (or anyone else for that matter) lifting a finger?
You're basically saying that there's no credit to be given here cause Hamas was going to lay down sooner or later
[QUOTE=Baller234;15037444]To those of you on the "Israel is controlling everything" side, I ask this in good faith.
Is this all part of the plan? What happens next?
Give me your playoff predictions.[/QUOTE]
you're the one jumping the gun here. the entirety of this plan has yet to be seen and played out. nothing has changed in terms of the likud party's intent on ethnically cleansing palestine and pursuing the "greater israel project". [I]their[/I] words, not mine. once all is said and done, we'll see how long this peace ends up lasting.
skepticism aside, it's certainly a shift in the right direction. hostages freed and hamas no longer governing gaza. that's [I]great[/I] news for [I]both[/I] sides. so where do we go from here? do we move to give these people their own state?
[QUOTE=Hey Yo;15037452]Surely you're not suggesting that if Kamalluh was running the country that eventually Hamas would've just surrendered, the war would've stopped on its own and hostages would've been released without her (or anyone else for that matter) lifting a finger?
You're basically saying that there's no credit to be given here cause Hamas was going to lay down sooner or later[/QUOTE]
I'm not giving credit, nor discrediting anyone. I actually said that this is a good thing twice. This is YOUR TDS coming out.
I'm just saying that Hamas was not winning this war. Just wasn't going to happen and they were prolonging the inevitable.
I don't know that happens if Kamala is president but there wouldn't be any less backing on Israel from our side, so likely nothing goes more positively for Hamas. Perhaps do they take longer to surrender? Maybe. Who knows.
[QUOTE=ShawkFactory;15037464]I'm not giving credit, nor discrediting anyone. I actually said that this is a good thing twice. This is YOUR TDS coming out.
I'm just saying that Hamas was not winning this war. Just wasn't going to happen and they were prolonging the inevitable.
I don't know that happens if Kamala is president but there wouldn't be any less backing on Israel from our side, so likely nothing goes more positively for Hamas. Perhaps do they take longer to surrender? Maybe. Who knows.[/QUOTE]
No TDS whatsoever here.... just funny you think that this was nothing more than " no negotiations or anything is needed, just wait it out cause Hamas will eventually give up" situation going on there.
[IMG]https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/71+hPQ9fHGL._UF894,1000_QL80_.jpg[/IMG]
[QUOTE=Hey Yo;15037452]Surely you're not suggesting that if Kamalluh was running the country that eventually Hamas would've just surrendered, the war would've stopped on its own and hostages would've been released without her (or anyone else for that matter) lifting a finger?
You're basically saying that there's no credit to be given here cause Hamas was going to lay down sooner or later[/QUOTE]
That's EXACTLY what he is saying. That there's no credit to be given to Trump simply because he's Trump and he's a Republican. There is no way in hell that ANY Democrat would have accomplished this. The Liberal brain is a poisoned brain. Full of utter bullshite.
[IMG]https://pbs.twimg.com/media/G3J6yu1XMAEER2L?format=jpg&name=small[/IMG]
[QUOTE=Patrick Chewing;15037471]That's EXACTLY what he is saying. That there's no credit to be given to Trump simply because he's Trump and he's a Republican. There is no way in hell that ANY Democrat would have accomplished this. The Liberal brain is a poisoned brain. Full of utter bullshite.[/QUOTE]
Shawk is right. Israel would have always come out on top, but Trump absolutely deserves credit. He saved 10.000s of muslim lives here. I don't think he deserves a peace nobel price as chances are Hamas will attack again, but it should definately be acknowledged what he did. Even if it doesn't last.
[QUOTE=diamenz;15037457]you're the one jumping the gun here. the entirety of this plan has yet to be seen and played out. nothing has changed in terms of the likud party's intent on ethnically cleansing palestine and pursuing the "greater israel project". [I]their[/I] words, not mine. once all is said and done, we'll see how long this peace ends up lasting.
skepticism aside, it's certainly a shift in the right direction. hostages freed and hamas no longer governing gaza. that's [I]great[/I] news for [I]both[/I] sides. so where do we go from here? do we move to give these people their own state?[/QUOTE]
See this is what I'm saying, you guys want it both ways.
You just said that Hamas no longer being in charge is a great thing, okay so then how was Israel not justified in taking action? Wasn't that the goal from the start? To remove Hamas from power? They could have surrendered eons ago.
As for what happens next I honestly don't know. I was hoping someone on that side of the aisle could tell me since they're the experts when it comes to Israel's grand scheme. I didn't know a peace agreement involving other middle eastern countries was part of the plan. I was informed that Bibi was Hitler and just wanted to exterminate goyim.
[QUOTE=Baller234;15037483]See this is what I'm saying, you guys want it both ways.
You just said that Hamas no longer being in charge is a great thing, okay so then how was Israel not justified in taking action? Wasn't that the goal from the start? To remove Hamas from power? They could have surrendered eons ago.
As for what happens next I honestly don't know. I was hoping someone on that side of the aisle could tell me since they're the experts when it comes to Israel's grand scheme. I didn't know a peace agreement involving other middle eastern countries was part of the plan. I was informed that Bibi was Hitler and just wanted to exterminate goyim.[/QUOTE]
why are you always being glib? do you want to have an honest discussion on the subject or is all that's important to you is the drama side of it? what's your focus gonna be bro? substance or dramatics?
[QUOTE]You just said that Hamas no longer being in charge is a great thing, okay so then how was Israel not justified in taking action? Wasn't that the goal from the start? To remove Hamas from power? [/QUOTE]
why do you assume that you know where i stand on this?
there is no "you guys". engage with individuals honestly and directly.
i can only speak for myself and i feel the need to make that clear because i know you [I]love[/I] to conflate and associate the extreme side and views of any issue with whomever you're engaging with here. hamas aren't my heros, just to clarify. :rolleyes: so can we establish that much and move on? you wamt to stoop to this trivial shit? are we really doing this?
...because i recall you stating that you don't want to be conflated with the pro-israelis out there that are quick point the anti-semitic finger at the slightest criticism of israel. fine, fair enough. completely understandable and reasonable. but don't turn around and be a hypocrite too - either that or just *ucking own your hypocrisy.
you didn't answer my question. if hamas removes themselves from power, hands gaza over to a "neutral" government, whatever that my end up being as well as of course release the remaining hostages, should the united states push israel to work towards a two state solution? or will be just revert back to the way it was before oct 7th and continue to allow israel to keep their boot on the neck of these people until?
[QUOTE=Hey Yo;15037468]No TDS whatsoever here.... just funny you think that this was nothing more than " no negotiations or anything is needed, just wait it out cause Hamas will eventually give up" situation going on there.[/QUOTE]
There certainly is TDS. I was giving my thoughts on the matter with nothing pointed at Trump whatsoever. Just the big picture thoughts. I even stated that this was a good thing twice. TWO TIMES.
But because I didn’t specifically praise Trump in the post you got in your feels.
[QUOTE=ShawkFactory;15037488]There certainly is TDS. I was giving my thoughts on the matter with nothing pointed at Trump whatsoever. Just the big picture thoughts. I even stated that this was a good thing twice. TWO TIMES.
But because I didn’t specifically praise Trump in the post you got in your feels.[/QUOTE]
I wasn't looking for you to praise him, just it's ridiculous for you to claim that nothing had to be done by anyone. That all that needed to be done was to sit back, hurry up and wait till Hamas contacts who they need to ...to say "the war is over and here's where we'll meet for a prisoner swap." It's just dumb logic, chico.
Imagine being President and telling families of prisoners... "just wait, they'll be dropped off sooner or later"
[QUOTE=Hey Yo;15037491]I wasn't looking for you to praise him, [B]just it's ridiculous for you to claim that nothing had to be done by anyone[/B]. That all that needed to be done was to sit back, hurry up and wait till Hamas contacts who they need to ...to say "the war is over and here's where we'll meet for a prisoner swap." It's just dumb logic, chico.
Imagine being President and telling families of prisoners... "just wait, they'll be dropped off sooner or later"[/QUOTE]
That's not what I said. Yes I do believe that their surrender was ultimately inevitable, but that it's good that it happened now and it DID require action to a degree. However, they had very little leverage in any deal and likely knew this. Basically, something..ANYTHING had to be brought to the table and they would agree at this point.
Should have happened a while ago but I think it took some of the public questioning Netanyahu and the IDF for Israel to accept this as well. If people weren't divided and everyone was staunchly pro-Israel in this conflict then this likely doesn't happen.
[QUOTE=diamenz;15037487]why are you always being glib? do you want to have an honest discussion on the subject or is all that's important to you is the drama side of it? what's your focus gonna be bro? substance or dramatics?
why do you assume that you know where i stand on this?
there is no "you guys". engage with individuals honestly and directly.
i can only speak for myself and i feel the need to make that clear because i know you [I]love[/I] to conflate and associate the extreme side and views of any issue with whomever you're engaging with here. hamas aren't my heros, just to clarify. :rolleyes: so can we establish that much and move on? you wamt to stoop to this trivial shit? are we really doing this?
...because i recall you stating that you don't want to be conflated with the pro-israelis out there that are quick point the anti-semitic finger at the slightest criticism of israel. fine, fair enough. completely understandable and reasonable. but don't turn around and be a hypocrite too - either that or just *ucking own your hypocrisy.
you didn't answer my question. if hamas removes themselves from power, hands gaza over to a "neutral" government, whatever that my end up being as well as of course release the remaining hostages, should the united states push israel to work towards a two state solution? or will be just revert back to the way it was before oct 7th and continue to allow israel to keep their boot on the neck of these people until?[/QUOTE]
If Hamas is removed from power and the new government shows interest in peacefully co-existing, why wouldn't Israel try and cut a deal? They've been trying for decades now but every single proposal has been rejected.
You'll have to forgive me being "glib" because just a few short months ago half this forum became totally unhinged. They swore up and down that we were on the verge of WW3 and that Darth Bibi was going to summon american soldiers to die on behalf of Israel and carry out his bloodthirsty conquest. Fast forward to present day and now we're talking about a peace deal in the entire region.
Having an honest discussion means admitting you were wrong and jumped the gun.