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[quote=Big Al All day]That doesn't mean he'll average that this year. With Wade being back and healthy and Beasly is gonna take a lot of shots.[/quote]
Who's going to rebound out of those three? Marions is. He averages 2.6 offensive rebounds for his career, and I bet he'll average better than three next year. With the bigger offensive rebounding numbers coming this season, he can take less shots and still average 18.
Marion might not be any better of a rebounder then Beasly. Where are they gonna play them anyways? Marion at the 3 Beasly at 4? Also i don't understand what your trying to make a case for. Are you saying that he should be higher on somebody's list? I can think of at least 8 better SF's right off the top of my head LeBron , Pierce , Melo , Butler , Artest , Josh Smith , Granger , and even guys like G. Wallace , Josh Smith , and Lamar Odom are as good if not better then Marion.
[QUOTE=Big Al All day]Marion might not be any better of a rebounder then Beasly. Where are they gonna play them anyways? Marion at the 3 Beasly at 4? Also i don't understand what your trying to make a case for. Are you saying that he should be higher on somebody's list? I can think of at least 8 better SF's right off the top of my head LeBron , Pierce , Melo , Butler , Artest , Josh Smith , Granger , and even guys like G. Wallace , Josh Smith , and Lamar Odom are as good if not better then Marion.[/QUOTE]
Gerald Wallace, Josh Smith, and Lamar Odom aren't really better than Marion. Marion is a better at rebounding and defense. He thrives in an open court style offense as the second or third option, but even in his first few years he was an OK first option on offense.
Butler and Granger are debatable.
I honestly think Butler and Granger are better then Marion. Butler was awesome without Gilbert there chucking up shots. This year yeah maybe ppg will go down but he is a pretty solid defender. I have Odom , Marion , Wallace , all ranked evenly. I forgot about Prince , I would rather have him on my team then any of the guys i just mentioned.
Edit: Marion only averaged 15ppg last year on a awful Heat team. Now with Wade and Beasly i don't see him averaging over 18ppg.
Butler is much better then marion. butler is a better shooter, defensivley he's just as good. people underrate carons defense. he's alot more mobile score. he has alot and i mean alot better handles. marion is a better rebounder though.i'll give him that much. i would say there is only 4 better SF's in better then butler.
LBJ
Pierce
Artest
Carmelo. carmelo is very much up for disscussion
[1] LeBron
[2] Pierce
[3] Caron
[4] Artest
[5] Melo
[6] Marion
[7] Odom
[8] Wallace
[9] Iguodala
[10] Smith
IMO.
[QUOTE=PacerRaptor]Artest averaged 20.5 ppg last season, another 0.5ppg isnt far fetched [url]http://www.nba.com/playerfile/ron_artest/career_stats.html[/url]
Marion is averaging 18.3 ppg for career [url]http://www.nba.com/playerfile/shawn_marion/career_stats.html[/url][/QUOTE]
artest is in houston now...he has yao and mcgrady to carry the scoring load. he isn't going to avg 21ppg.....close thread
[QUOTE=Kiddlovesnets]If Manu is not the second best SG the who is?
:confusedshrug:[/QUOTE]
Wade Allen Carter Iverson are all better etc..
IS THAT ENOUGH?
[quote=AllenIverson3]Wade Allen Carter Iverson are all better etc..
IS THAT ENOUGH?[/quote]
Roy and Joe Johnson too.
[QUOTE=Big Al All day]Marion might not be any better of a rebounder then Beasly. Where are they gonna play them anyways? Marion at the 3 Beasly at 4? Also i don't understand what your trying to make a case for. Are you saying that he should be higher on somebody's list? I can think of at least 8 better SF's right off the top of my head LeBron , Pierce , Melo , Butler , Artest , Josh Smith , Granger , and even guys like G. Wallace , Josh Smith , and Lamar Odom are as good if not better then Marion.[/QUOTE]
Dude, only Bron, Pierce, Melo, & Butler, are better then Marion, but not the rest. & you named Josh Smith 2s. Did you mean Josh Howard?
[QUOTE=Big Al All day]I honestly think Butler and Granger are better then Marion. Butler was awesome without Gilbert there chucking up shots. This year yeah maybe ppg will go down but he is a pretty solid defender. I have Odom , Marion , Wallace , all ranked evenly. I forgot about Prince , I would rather have him on my team then any of the guys i just mentioned.
Edit: Marion only averaged 15ppg last year on a awful Heat team. Now with Wade and Beasly i don't see him averaging over 18ppg.[/QUOTE]
He played with a bad back, & without anyone creating shots, for him. Not to meantion that he had all the defense consintrated on him.
I see him averageing around 16 ppg, 9 rpg, 2 st, & 1 bs, shooting over 45 %, playing mostly SF.
Why do people consistently bring this thread back! It sucks!
[QUOTE=ronnymac]Butler is much better then marion. butler is a better shooter, defensivley he's just as good. people underrate carons defense. he's alot more mobile score. he has alot and i mean alot better handles. marion is a better rebounder though.i'll give him that much. i would say there is only 4 better SF's in better then butler.
LBJ
Pierce
Artest
Carmelo. carmelo is very much up for disscussion[/QUOTE]
How can you have Artest there? :no:
guys, the op got banned because he was trash and so were all of his threads/posts including this one.
[QUOTE=highwhey]guys, the op got banned because he was trash and so were all of his threads/posts including this one.[/QUOTE]
I'm sorry but a lot of ISH posters were banned for at least once so all their posts are trash as well? Good logic and enjoy the bash.
:cheers:
[QUOTE=Lord Leoshes]How can you have Artest there? :no:[/QUOTE]
Artest the the best primeter defender in the nba. he is big and strong and yet agile like a cat. he also averaged 21 points and 38% from beyond the arc. he is versatile enough to guard the sg's, sf's and the pf's of our league. why shouldnt he be there.
[QUOTE=EricGordon23]My List
1) Lebron James
2) Paul Peirce
3) Melo
4) Caron Butler
5) Ron Artest
6) Richard Jefferson
7) Josh Smith
8) Corey Maggette
9) Iggy
10) Gerald Wallace[/QUOTE]
I like everything about this list except the spelling, and Shawn Marion is missing. He's better than Wallace and Igoudala (who are so close in stats it's not funny) He's got to get one of those guys' spots, and there has got to be a better example of a small forward than Corey Maggette, or am I nuts? What about Luol Deng, Josh Howard or Tayshaun Prince? One more thing about Iguodala, he's a SG is he not?
[QUOTE=ronnymac]Artest the the best primeter defender in the nba. he is big and strong and yet agile like a cat. he also averaged 21 points and 38% from beyond the arc. he is versatile enough to guard the sg's, sf's and the pf's of our league. why shouldnt he be there.[/QUOTE]
Cause they have him to high.
1 Lebron
2 Pierce
3 Butler
4 Anthony
5 Marion
6 Iguodala
7 J Smith/Prince
8 R Jefferson
9 J Howard
10 Artest
[QUOTE=Lord Leoshes]Cause they have him to high.
1 Lebron
2 Pierce
3 Butler
4 Anthony
5 Marion
6 Iguodala
7 J Smith/Prince
8 R Jefferson
9 J Howard
10 Artest[/QUOTE]
Iguodala and Josh Howard over Artest, are u kidding?
:roll: :roll: :roll:
[QUOTE=Kiddlovesnets]Iguodala and Josh Howard over Artest, are u kidding?
:roll: :roll: :roll:[/QUOTE]
Have you seen your list?
[QUOTE=Kiddlovesnets]Iguodala and Josh Howard over Artest, are u kidding?
:roll: :roll: :roll:[/QUOTE]
Takeing into account age, & mental state, yeah. But all three are about even.
But Artest is that poisson that can destroy a teams season with just one of his stupid acts. I would take Iggy, & Howord befor Artest.
If you're gonna talk out of you're ass, then back it up with facts.
1 Artest is 28 and in he's prime. hows age an issue. why is marion ahead of ron if age is such an issue.
2 Anyone who puts iggy and howard above artest is a dumbass. an utter dumbass.artest is head and shoulders above them on both sides of the ball. if were going by complete game, only pierce and lbj are the better players by that criteria. this thread or question is about the top ten SF's on the court. the off the court issues has no bearings here.non whatsoever.
3 Marion being better at what? artest is a much better defender and alot better offensive player. he is a better shooter to. rons's offensive game is much better then marion's. only thing marion does is rebound.Ron is alot more versatile on both sides of the ball.ron can defend the SG's, SF's and the PF's of the nba. marion can only go with the SF's and PF's. rons a much better three point shooter. ron is alot better at putting the ball on the floor and creat shots for himself.
On both sides of the ball, artest is one of the most complete players in the league.to be the best defensive player in the league and score twenty one points a game and shoot thirty eight % from beyond the arc warrant you to be in the top four or five best small forwards in the league.
I can understand maybe caron butler being infront of ron with LBJ, pierce and melo, but the rest of the list is a joke.
[QUOTE=ronnymac]If you're gonna talk out of you're ass, then back it up with facts.
1 Artest is 28 and in he's prime. hows age an issue
2 Anyone who puts iggy and howard above artest is a dumbass. an utter dumbass.artest is head and shoulders above them on both sides of the ball. if were going by complete game, only pierce and lbj are the better players by that criteria. this question is the top SF on the court. the off the court issues has no bearings here.
3 Marion being better at what? artest is a much better defender and alot better offensive player. he is a better shooter to. only thing marion does is renound.he's alot more versatile on both sides of the ball.
On both sides of the ball, artest is one of the most complete players in the league.[/QUOTE]
+1
[QUOTE=ronnymac]If you're gonna talk out of you're ass, then back it up with facts.
1 Artest is 28 and in he's prime. hows age an issue. why is marion ahead of ron if age is such an issue.
2 Anyone who puts iggy and howard above artest is a dumbass. an utter dumbass.artest is head and shoulders above them on both sides of the ball. if were going by complete game, only pierce and lbj are the better players by that criteria. this thread or question is about the top ten SF's on the court. the off the court issues has no bearings here.non whatsoever.
3 Marion being better at what? artest is a much better defender and alot better offensive player. he is a better shooter to. rons's offensive game is much better then marion's. only thing marion does is rebound.Ron is alot more versatile on both sides of the ball.ron can defend the SG's, SF's and the PF's of the nba. marion can only go with the SF's and PF's. rons a much better three point shooter. ron is alot better at putting the ball on the floor and creat shots for himself.
On both sides of the ball, artest is one of the most complete players in the league.to be the best defensive player in the league and score twenty one points a game and shoot thirty eight % from beyond the arc warrant you to be in the top four or five best small forwards in the league.
I can understand maybe caron butler being infront of ron with LBJ, pierce and melo, but the rest of the list is a joke.[/QUOTE]
Agreed. Artest is one of the most underrated players in NBA...
:sleeping
[QUOTE=Kiddlovesnets]I'm sorry but a lot of ISH posters were banned for at least once so all their posts are trash as well? Good logic and enjoy the bash.
:cheers:[/QUOTE]
Speaking about good logic, you have none. Your list is ether biased or you are very ignorant. Your predicted stats are also a joke.
[QUOTE=highwhey]Speaking about good logic, you have none. Your list is ether biased or you are very ignorant. Your predicted stats are also a joke.[/QUOTE]
You didn't ever realize that your existence is the biggest joke on ISH? Pathetic...
:sleeping
[QUOTE=Kiddlovesnets]You didn't ever realize that your existence is the biggest joke on ISH? Pathetic...
:sleeping[/QUOTE]
:roll: :roll: :roll:
that coming from you is sad
[QUOTE=ronnymac]If you're gonna talk out of you're ass, then back it up with facts.
1 Artest is 28 and in he's prime. hows age an issue. why is marion ahead of ron if age is such an issue.
2 Anyone who puts iggy and howard above artest is a dumbass. an utter dumbass.artest is head and shoulders above them on both sides of the ball. if were going by complete game, only pierce and lbj are the better players by that criteria. this thread or question is about the top ten SF's on the court. the off the court issues has no bearings here.non whatsoever.
3 Marion being better at what? artest is a much better defender and alot better offensive player. he is a better shooter to. rons's offensive game is much better then marion's. only thing marion does is rebound.Ron is alot more versatile on both sides of the ball.ron can defend the SG's, SF's and the PF's of the nba. marion can only go with the SF's and PF's. rons a much better three point shooter. ron is alot better at putting the ball on the floor and creat shots for himself.
On both sides of the ball, artest is one of the most complete players in the league.to be the best defensive player in the league and score twenty one points a game and shoot thirty eight % from beyond the arc warrant you to be in the top four or five best small forwards in the league.
I can understand maybe caron butler being infront of ron with LBJ, pierce and melo, but the rest of the list is a joke.[/QUOTE]
I should add that artest is a monster in the low block.
[QUOTE=ronnymac]I should add that artest is a monster in the low block.[/QUOTE]
Yeah, but as a Pacer/Laker fan I've had to deal with Artest being OFF the court a lot lmao. Going by talent, he's definitely up there.
[QUOTE=NotALakerTroll]Yeah, but as a Pacer/Laker fan I've had to deal with Artest being OFF the court a lot lmao. Going by talent, he's definitely up there.[/QUOTE]
Again, the criteria here is on the court performances or ability.
[QUOTE=ronnymac]If you're gonna talk out of you're ass, then back it up with facts.
1 Artest is 28 and in he's prime. hows age an issue. why is marion ahead of ron if age is such an issue.
2 Anyone who puts iggy and howard above artest is a dumbass. an utter dumbass.artest is head and shoulders above them on both sides of the ball. if were going by complete game, only pierce and lbj are the better players by that criteria. this thread or question is about the top ten SF's on the court. the off the court issues has no bearings here.non whatsoever.
3 Marion being better at what? artest is a much better defender and alot better offensive player. he is a better shooter to. rons's offensive game is much better then marion's. only thing marion does is rebound.Ron is alot more versatile on both sides of the ball.ron can defend the SG's, SF's and the PF's of the nba. marion can only go with the SF's and PF's. rons a much better three point shooter. ron is alot better at putting the ball on the floor and creat shots for himself.
On both sides of the ball, artest is one of the most complete players in the league.to be the best defensive player in the league and score twenty one points a game and shoot thirty eight % from beyond the arc warrant you to be in the top four or five best small forwards in the league.
I can understand maybe caron butler being infront of ron with LBJ, pierce and melo, but the rest of the list is a joke.[/QUOTE]
Am sorry if i insulted your huband, but you don't have to call me a bumbass. Cause the only dumass is that slut mother of yours. So go put that dirty mouth of your back were it belongs. Raped around your dad ****. When you lern to talk to me with respect then i'll show you respect. till then GO **** YOUR SELF.
[QUOTE=NotALakerTroll]Yeah, but as a Pacer/Laker fan I've had to deal with Artest being OFF the court a lot lmao. Going by talent, he's definitely up there.[/QUOTE]
It's not his talent thats the problem. It's ALL the stupid things he does, that makes GM not wan't him. He is a cancer that destroys locker room chemistry.
He is a meantal case that can blow up at any time, & destroy a franchis hopes for a championship. Just ask Indiana. Who else leaves his team to go rap? what an idiot. They should take him out back & put him to sleep.
[QUOTE=Lord Leoshes]Am sorry if i insulted your huband, but you don't have to call me a bumbass. Cause the only dumass is that slut mother of yours. So go put that dirty mouth of your back were it belongs. Raped around your dad ****. When you lern to talk to me with respect then i'll show you respect. till then GO **** YOUR SELF.[/QUOTE]
It's clear you have no clue about basketball or ron artest. i think everyone saw in this thread how dumb you really are.
[QUOTE=ronnymac]It's clear you have no clue about basketball or ron artest. i think everyone saw in this thread how dumb you really are.[/QUOTE]
If you respond to me respecfully, then i'll talk to you with the same respect. Just don't insult me, & call me names. If you've read my post, then you know that i think he is a very talented player. It's his meantal state that bothers me. The guy is a ticking time bomb waiting to blow up again. & the reason i like Marion better is because he does everything he does with out even having a play called for him. Artest wan'ts to dominat the ball all the time. & he is clearly not a 1st option. You can make a case that Howard, & Iggi, cause they dominat the ball alot to. But Marion fits perfectly, while letting the other players do their thing. Now do you understand why i rather have Marion, over Artest? Or are you going to insult me & call me names to prove your point again?
[QUOTE=Lord Leoshes]If you respond to me respecfully, then i'll talk to you with the same respect. Just don't insult me, & call me names. If you've read my post, then you know that i think he is a very talented player. It's his meantal state that bothers me. The guy is a ticking time bomb waiting to blow up again. & the reason i like Marion better is because he does everything he does with out even having a play called for him. Artest wan'ts to dominat the ball all the time. & he is clearly not a 1st option. You can make a case that Howard, & Iggi, cause they dominat the ball alot to. But Marion fits perfectly, while letting the other players do their thing. Now do you understand why i rather have Marion, over Artest? Or are you going to insult me & call me names to prove your point again?[/QUOTE]
So how does that make marion a better player again?.again this is about the top ten SF's on pure ability. not who you like better or who is ball hog . ABILITY.
Defense artest is superior to all three of them. infact he's probaly the best primeter defender in the league.
Offense. ron is far superior to marion and iggy. those two guys couldnt creat shot to save there lives. there both great finishers. whilst artest is a great finisher around the hoop and he can creat shots for himself.
Shooting.artest is a better long range shooter then marion. artest averaged 38% this past season. marion averaged 29%.
Rebounding. both iggy and marion are superior rebounders. in marions case much superior.
Steals. artest has a 2nd best 1.9 steals a game in the nba.
Handles. artest has much better handles then marion. artest can easily creat shots for himself whilst marion is more of a finisher. needs a nash to get him shots to finish.
Intensity. noone plays more intense then ron. there is a reason why he won defensive player of the year. marion plays with great intensity to, but artest is second to none.
[QUOTE=ronnymac]So how does that make marion a better player again?.again this is about the top ten SF's on pure ability. not who you like better or who is ball hog . ABILITY.
Defense artest is superior to all three of them. infact he's probaly the best primeter defender in the league.
Offense. ron is far superior to marion and iggy. those two guys couldnt creat shot to save there lives. there both great finishers. whilst artest is a great finisher around the hoop and he can creat shots for himself.
Shooting.artest is a better long range shooter then marion. artest averaged 38% this past season. marion averaged 29%.
Rebounding. both iggy and marion are superior rebounders. in marions case much superior.
Steals. artest has a 2nd best 1.9 steals a game in the nba.
Handles. artest has much better handles then marion. artest can easily creat shots for himself whilst marion is more of a finisher. needs a nash to get him shots to finish.
Intensity. noone plays more intense then ron. there is a reason why he won defensive player of the year. marion plays with great intensity to, but artest is second to none.[/QUOTE]
I can agree with most of what you sead, but i think offensivly, Iggy is just as good. & when it comes to intensity, i feel that Marion is as intense, but keeps his head. Witch is the biggest problem with Artest. + Artest takes to meany bad shots, while Marion always go's with the flow. You can make a case on any of them, on any given night, that one will have a better game then the other. But in my opinion, if i had to pick one of the 4 of them to start a team. I would pick Marion first. But thats just my opinion, & am sure you have yours.
P.S. Thank for not being disrespecfull this time.
Sorry about before.:cheers: . we gotta agree to disagree here. :cheers:
Since Odom is one of the candidates and he hasn't played SF yet, shouldn't Kobe be in the top 10 SF conversation too? Kobe probably has played a lot more minutes at SF throughout his career than Odom himself. Honestly, I would probably take Kobe at the SF position over RJ, Maggette, Butler.
[QUOTE=ronnymac]Sorry about before.:cheers: . we gotta agree to disagree here. :cheers:[/QUOTE]
No problem. At least we agree on something. & right back at you :cheers:
How can you put Kirilenko in "other candidates". He cant' play ball !!!
Humm, I think you overestimated Ron Artest, you should have given him the last rank of your list.. for sure, he can play on defense, he's certainly one of the top 5 best defensive player in the NBA, but about his offensive game.. hum.. he sucks =D
Shawn Marion isnt very smart but when he plays with some good point gard like Steve Nash, he's the man. Rebounding, fast break / alley oop scoring, defending, yeah, he's the man !
Maggette shouldn't be on your list, you'd better stop looking at statistics and watch some (ex-)clippers games. He's way too irregular.