Where are the Hornets gonna move to? Seattle or Vegas?

[QUOTE=JayGuevara]So let me ask you this. Places like Detroit, Newark, Gary, Flint, New Orleans also, etc etc are fairly well known for high crime rates, poverty, violence, and poor economies. Why are any of these cities inhabited at all? Shouldn't they all just get out of that situation? And adapt?

Is it that simple?[/QUOTE]
Not to get off on another issue (because this isn't my viewpoint to begin with), but for the sake of argument, many people do leave high crime areas when they get the chance (which isn't often in poverty stricken urban areas), and/or don't choose to move to higher crime areas, so in essence, what you are saying is actually happening, but not directly how you are describing.

[QUOTE=Showtime]Incorrect. That wasn't what I was saying.[/QUOTE]

so who should live in NO?
and btw that was exactly what u've been saying i can find quotes if you'd like.

[QUOTE=nosurrender]so who should live in NO?
and btw that was exactly what u've been saying i can find quotes if you'd like.[/QUOTE]
I never tried to dictate who should inhabit the area. I simply stated that my empathy has limitations in certain situations. Some of the comments you were referring to were in the context of this expression, so I can see where a person such as yourself might misconstrue the meaning if they took that comment at face value.

Once again, let me be crystal clear: I'm not criticising or demeaning any victim of the storms. I'm simply saying that my empathy has limitations. Here's a prime example taken from an article about the approaching storm:

[quote] Bette has the means to leave New Orleans. She and her husband could jump in their car and take off. During Katrina, she briefly relocated to Houston, and while happy she made that choice, she couldn't stay. She had to return to her city.

Like a relationship that suffers a bad break-up and is stronger after a reunion, she worries that she hasn't got the heart to leave and then return a second time.

"When you stand out there by that river and look at that levee," she said, "you are just so blessed to live here. I am in love, and so I make my choice."[/quote]

Now, here's a woman with the means to safely leave the city, and avoid further destruction. She could have moved from NO to a safer location. She has temporarily done it before, but admittedly chooses to stay because that's her choice. Now, if her store and/or home gets damaged, am I supposed to feel sorry for her? Am I obligated to feel empathy towards this woman who had the means to avoid this but chose not to?

I can understand the situation of one that doesn't have the means or opportunity to relocate somewhere else that's more safe. But I will not feel obligated, whatsoever, to feel empathy for people such as this woman who have the ability to leave, but choose to live in an area where she faces dire situations year after year. She made her choice, which was her right. But I don't have to feel a certain way because of it.

it doesnt matter whether it happens every year or every other decade.

Frankly and undeniably, no one deserves natural disaster. No one. And that's why you should not limit your empathy. If you think a person deserves this kind of disaster because he/she somehow saw it coming two years before the occurrence, then I guess nobody can change your mentality. I hope somebody eventually does, and increase the number of people who care enough to donate or go down and help.

I'm not trying to be mean here, but after this hurricane is over there should be no more donations going out for people to rebuild their lives in that city. Yes it is home to a great amount of people, but living under sea level between a huge lake and the Gulf of Mexico with the disastrous weather that is only getting worse each year seems like an uphill battle. How many more billions of dollars are gonna be spent repairing a city in between hurricanes before insurance companies and donation centers pay them to rebuild elsewhere (Surely there is other things we can spend billions of dollars on that are just as worthy). I say ship the NO Hornets to Seattle and give another great city a NBA team again. I hope every gets out of that city with all their cherished possessions, and hopefully this wont happen again. I'm sure we can just move party city to another city. As for football, i don't know how well the Saints would do in SA. Seattle seems to be the best place to relocate the Hornets though, I'm sure they would have no problem selling out most of their games with how well the Hornets are doing and how much Seattle wants a team back.

[QUOTE=nosurrender]it doesnt matter whether it happens every year or every other decade.[/quote]

Well, that's your opinion. In my viewpoint, if you choose to live in a high risk situation, you should expect whatever consequences result from the situation.

[quote]Frankly and undeniably, no one deserves natural disaster. No one. And that's why you should not limit your empathy.[/quote]

I never said a person deserved to suffer. But I'm also not going to have unlimited empathy for people who CHOSE that situation. If you build a house at the foot of an active volcano, am I supposed to feel empathy when an eruption destroys it? If you walk on the train tracks, am I supposed to weep if you were struck and killed? Tragedy is tragedy, and I'm not disputing that. But there is a level of accountability when one has the choice.

[quote]If you think a person deserves this kind of disaster because he/she somehow saw it coming two years before the occurrence, then I guess nobody can change your mentality.[/quote]

Once again, you show your ignorance by this statement. If this is your understanding of my viewpoint, then please don't respond to me on this issue, because it's clear you aren't comprehending my opinion. I never said people deserved it.

[QUOTE=Showtime]


Now, here's a woman with the means to safely leave the city, and avoid further destruction. She could have moved from NO to a safer location. She has temporarily done it before, but admittedly chooses to stay because that's her choice. Now, if her store and/or home gets damaged, am I supposed to feel sorry for her? Am I obligated to feel empathy towards this woman who had the means to avoid this but chose not to?

I can understand the situation of one that doesn't have the means or opportunity to relocate somewhere else that's more safe. But I will not feel obligated, whatsoever, to feel empathy for people such as this woman who has the ability to leave, but chooses to live in an area where she faces dire situations year after year. She made her choice, which was her right. But I don't have to feel a certain way because of it.[/QUOTE]

Well I would think that as a fellow human being you could still empathize with the scenario. Leaving everything you know, where you've grown up, raised a family, whatever the case is, is a decision I can imagine would be terribly hard to make. As a fellow human, you may not agree with her decision, but you should still feel some sympathy for her even having to be in a position to make that decision. Ya dig?

[QUOTE=Hoggle]I'm not trying to be mean here, but after this hurricane is over there should be no more donations going out for people to rebuild their lives in that city. Yes it is home to a great amount of people, but living under sea level between a huge lake and the Gulf of Mexico with the disastrous weather that is only getting worse each year seems like an uphill battle. How many more billions of dollars are gonna be spent repairing a city in between hurricanes before insurance companies and donation centers pay them to rebuild elsewhere. I say ship the NO Hornets to Seattle and give another great city a NBA team again. I hope every gets out of that city with all their cherished possessions, and hopefully this wont happen again. I'm sure we can just move party city to another city. As for football, i don't know how well the Saints would do in SA. Seattle seems to be the best place to relocate the Hornets though, I'm sure they would have no problem selling out most of their games with how well the Hornets are doing and how much Seattle wants a team back.[/QUOTE]

Personally I would much rather my tax dollars go to rebuilding the homes of the less fortunate who had their lives torn apart by hurricanes than another dime towards Iraq and the presence of our troops. But that's just me.

[QUOTE=JayGuevara]Well I would think that as a fellow human being you could still empathize with the scenario. Leaving everything you know, where you've grown up, raised a family, whatever the case is, is a decision I can imagine would be terribly hard to make. As a fellow human, you may not agree with her decision, but you should still feel some sympathy for her even having to be in a position to make that decision. Ya dig?[/QUOTE]
I guess we can agree on the issue of a choice. I feel sorry that she was forced to make a choice in that situation to begin with.

[quote=Showtime]Well, that's your opinion. In my viewpoint, if you choose to live in a high risk situation, you should expect whatever consequences result from the situation.



I never said a person deserved to suffer. But I'm also not going to have unlimited empathy for people who CHOSE that situation. If you build a house at the foot of an active volcano, am I supposed to feel empathy when an eruption destroys it? If you walk on the train tracks, am I supposed to weep if you were struck and killed? Tragedy is tragedy, and I'm not disputing that. But there is a level of accountability when one has the choice.



Once again, you show your ignorance by this statement. If this is your understanding of my viewpoint, then please don't respond to me on this issue, because it's clear you aren't comprehending my opinion. I never said people deserved it.[/quote]

I know what happened to you during this thread. You showed no compassion towards the people New Orleans, and were torched accordingly. And now that you realize you are being labeled as an antagonist, you have switched into a defensive mentality and continue to post this useless dribble. When it is all said and done one thing is clear; you are not nearly as compassionate to other humans as the average ISH poster and that is reprehensible.

i'm just concerned because your logic says that the residents chose disaster over safety, as if they knew this city was gonna get striken again, when in reality they chose their home over somewhere foreign. They don't see this coming, I don't see this coming. For the eye of a big ass hurricane of this magnitude to strike the same godd-mn city twice within a few years... It's a one in a thousand, and it just had to happen.

Obviously, if this will continue to happen as often as it has been, I would urge anyone to abandon their homes, but no one can see the future.

That woman did not see a hurricane coming in 2008. Neither did I. Because it could happen at anytime and yet it could stay quiet in new orleans forever. She hoped for the latter, and I'd imagine you would too, showtime.

[QUOTE=Godfather]I know what happened to you during this thread. You showed no compassion towards the people New Orleans, and were torched accordingly. And now that you realize you are being labeled as an antagonist, you have switched into a defensive mentality and continue to post this useless dribble. When it is all said and done one thing is clear; you are not nearly as compassionate to other humans as the average ISH poster and that is reprehensible.[/QUOTE]
My first post on this issue:

"I know it's a sad situation, but at some point I don't feel empathy for those that put themselves in that situation again. It's like those people who rebuild multiple times after tornado season has wiped out their house. GTFO out of the area. I don't feel sorry for the person walking down the railroad tracks who gets hit by a train."

Now, because of the reaction, I had to go into greater detail to clarify my point to avoid confusion. It's unfortunate that you feel this clarification was somehow a defensive tactic to avoid flaming. My only mistake was not being clear enough in my initial post. If you notice, in the very first sentence, I was only talking about those that "put themselves in that situation again", and then went on to clarify that. I wasn't making broad statements about all the victims. I wasn't criticizing everybody who experienced loss. I was expressing my viewpoint and I make no apologies to those that misunderstood.

If you want to think I'm heartless, feel no compassion for people, etc, then go right ahead. I know that isn't the case, and the people who know me know that isn't the case.

You think the NBA will move to put another team in Seattle, just months after the city rejected the Sonics? Not going to happen.

[QUOTE=nosurrender]i'm just concerned because your logic says that the residents chose disaster over safety, as if they knew this city was gonna get striken again, when in reality they chose their home over somewhere foreign. They don't see this coming, I don't see this coming. For the eye of a big ass hurricane of this magnitude to strike the same godd-mn city twice within a few years... It's a one in a thousand, and it just had to happen.[/quote]

Well, I guess we must disagree on what likelihood means. You find it unlikely that a city in the location and situation as NO could be damaged by hurricanes, and I see it as a probability that merits serious consideration.

[quote]Obviously, if this will continue to happen as often as it has been, I would urge anyone to abandon their homes, but no one can see the future.[/quote]

I agree that nobody can see the future, but that doesn't mean everybody should put everything to chance.

[quote]That woman did not see a hurricane coming in 2008. Neither did I. Because it could happen at anytime and yet it could stay quiet in new orleans forever. She hoped for the latter, and I'd imagine you would too, showtime.[/QUOTE]
I would agree with you if this was some random, freak occurrence. The fact is there are hurricane seasons every single year, and the location is a dangerous one, so in my mind, there's a circumstance there that merits serious consideration. You don't build a house on a fault line and then say an earthquake was a totally random occurrence, and hopefully it won't happen again. You can't be serious, can you? You honestly think the city's situation isn't something to be considered when making a decision such as where to base your life? This isn't a lightning strike we are talking about.

[quote=Showtime]Well, I guess we must disagree on what likelihood means. You find it unlikely that a city in the location and situation as NO could be damaged by hurricanes, and I see it as a probability that merits serious consideration.



I agree that nobody can see the future, but that doesn't mean everybody should put everything to chance.


I would agree with you if this was some random, freak occurrence. The fact is there are hurricane seasons every single year, and the location is a dangerous one, so in my mind, there's a circumstance there that merits serious consideration. You don't build a house on a fault line and then say an earthquake was a totally random occurrence, and hopefully it won't happen again. [B]You can't be serious, can you? You honestly think the city's situation isn't something to be considered when making a decision such as where to base your life?[/B] This isn't a lightning strike we are talking about.[/quote]

Because everyone who lives in New Orleans recently moved there...

[QUOTE=Showtime] This isn't a lightning strike we are talking about.[/QUOTE]

well regardless of the likelihood, I bet repopulation will be even harder this year, and you will eventually get your wish and there will be next to nobody living there say, by 2010. I just don't think people can come back with a clear heart after this one. I loved the city when I was there, from the French quarter to sneaking into a Tulane frat party. It will be missed sorely.

[QUOTE=nosurrender]well regardless of the likelihood, I bet repopulation will be even harder this year, and you will eventually[B] get your wish[/B] and there will be next to nobody living there say, by 2010. I just don't think people can come back with a clear heart after this one. I loved the city when I was there, from the French quarter to sneaking into a Tulane frat party. It will be missed sorely.[/QUOTE]
I've gone to great lengths to make myself crystal clear despite several people who misunderstood me, and you either don't have the reading comprehension skills to understand my viewpoint, or you do, but you want to be a jerk. I never said anybody deserved it. I never said NO should be wiped off the map and people should just not live there. If you are either too dumb to get that, or too much of a jerk to not play games, then just don't even waste my time. Ignored.

[QUOTE=Godfather]Because everyone who lives in New Orleans recently moved there...[/QUOTE]
I wasn't talking about "everybody" in NO. I've said multiple times that I was talking about those that had the choice, means, and opportunity after katrina, so next time: try reading. Then read it again. Then take a minute and think about it. Then post.

[QUOTE=JayGuevara]So let me ask you this. Places like Detroit, Newark, Gary, Flint, New Orleans also, etc etc are fairly well known for high crime rates, poverty, violence, and poor economies. Why are any of these cities inhabited at all? Shouldn't they all just get out of that situation? And adapt?

Is it that simple?[/QUOTE]

but is it too idealistic to consider people moving away from those places? no.

and that isn't the same thing...the inhabitants of those places contribute to those problems, whereas the hurricanes of the gulf coast aren't created by the residents.

and...the magnitude of problems caused by the hurricanes is far more affective than the crime rates of poverty stricken areas. are there evacuations from flint, detriot, etc?

saying people should move from a place that experiences natural disasters is fine logic, and not at all too idealistic.

I totally agree with Showtime in this thread, and people accusing him of being a teenager or having no friends are the real immature ones. He simply questions as to why these people are rebuilding in a volatile area. It's completely valid, and alot of people live far away from family and friends and can maintain those relationships. You can make new friends in new places, so that argument is out the window.

These people are rebuilding in New Orleans, choosing to relocate, which is hardwork and whether you are poor or rich takes money and planning. Instead of rebuilding in a dangerous area, why not relocate somewhere else? Hell, you could move a simple 60-80 miles away and be a hell of alot safer. No one is asking anyone to move halfway across the world here.

It is hard to have empathy for these people, and whether you admit it or not in today's times with a changing climate weather is getting more and more unpredictable. That region has a violent history with weather patterns, most anyone living there is aware of that. For example, a man has been living with nature his entire life, with Bears, and suddenly Bears are getting more aggressive than usual. They grow more and more aggressive, and finally he is attacked and almost killed. If he returns to that spot where he knows there is danger and a similar event could occur, he's putting himself in danger.

You can't **** with nature, and you can't curse nature when you try and manipulate it. New Orleans should not even exist, being below sea level it is an unnatural location for a major city. I feel badly for the people who take the risks and decide to live there, but I also have a hard time sympathizing with them and their plight.

I just got off the phone with my sister, who's alright.

She couldn't get out though. You know why? She literally doesn't have enough money to get to the nearest open shelter, which is in San Antonio.

It goes beyond that though. During a hurricane they do something called contraflow on the streets. All the streets, all lanes, head out of state. Every single road leads to the border. And it literally can take about a month before you can get back into the state.

So if you leave, not only do you need the money to get out of the state, which with gas prices is not trivial, but you need the money to survive, without an income, for about a month at least, and then you have to come back and get the things you can salvage before leaving permanently.

When you stay in a shelter it isn't free. You have to pay for meals. She literally doesn't have enough money to pay for her, her husband and her 6 month old kid to eat for a month without any supporting income.

Additionally her husband is a state trooper so he'd have to stay anyway to help evacuate people.

Showtime, it costs money to move. More than it costs to rebuild. It costs [b]thousands[/b] of dollars to move out of state. The only way they can accomplish that is if they use the money the government gives them to replace their lost items, and instead use it to move.

Which if they did they'd literally have a couple of changes of cloths and some blankets. No furniture, no job, nothing.

In 12 hours I'm not gonna be able to contact her anymore. Her house is most likely going to be completely destroyed, and/or looted, and I won't even know if she's okay until next Thursday.

The fact that you crticize the choices these people have to make from so ****ing far away is the most heinous, rediculous thing I've ever heard on this forum. You're a waste of a human being if you honestly think [i]you[/i] have any perspective on the choices those people have to make, and you can ****ing die in a ditch for all I care.

And FYI, she lives in West Louissianna, near the Texas border.

^^does it really cost more to move than to rebuild? i don't think that is the case...particularly if you have to evacuate and/or rebuild multiple times. moving is just once.

[QUOTE=SourGrapes]^^does it really cost more to move than to rebuild? i don't think that is the case...particularly if you have to evacuate and/or rebuild multiple times. moving is just once.[/QUOTE]

You get federal/state assitance to stay. But only to stay.

The state and federal government don't give assitance if you're leaving, and neighboring states don't give assitance if you're moving there.

Which means only the people who can afford to move do, and only the impovershed are left.

(They also rent instead of own their house, which means they aren't collecting a 100K+ check for their destroyed residence.)

[QUOTE=JordanL]I just got off the phone with my sister, who's alright.

She couldn't get out though. You know why? She literally doesn't have enough money to get to the nearest open shelter, which is in San Antonio.

It goes beyond that though. During a hurricane they do something called contraflow on the streets. All the streets, all lanes, head out of state. Every single road leads to the border. And it literally can take about a month before you can get back into the state.

So if you leave, not only do you need the money to get out of the state, which with gas prices is not trivial, but you need the money to survive, without an income, for about a month at least, and then you have to come back and get the things you can salvage before leaving permanently.

When you stay in a shelter it isn't free. You have to pay for meals. She literally doesn't have enough money to pay for her, her husband and her 6 month old kid to eat for a month without any supporting income.

Additionally her husband is a state trooper so he'd have to stay anyway to help evacuate people.

Showtime, it costs money to move. More than it costs to rebuild. It costs [b]thousands[/b] of dollars to move out of state. The only way they can accomplish that is if they use the money the government gives them to replace their lost items, and instead use it to move.

Which if they did they'd literally have a couple of changes of cloths and some blankets. No furniture, no job, nothing.

In 12 hours I'm not gonna be able to contact her anymore. Her house is most likely going to be completely destroyed, and/or looted, and I won't even know if she's okay until next Thursday.

The fact that you crticize the choices these people have to make from so ****ing far away is the most heinous, rediculous thing I've ever heard on this forum. You're a waste of a human being if you honestly think [i]you[/i] have any perspective on the choices those people have to make, and you can ****ing die in a ditch for all I care.

And FYI, she lives in West Louissianna, near the Texas border.[/QUOTE]

So, you've taken the situation of your sister who lives in Louisiana, and have basically attributed her situation to the situation of everyone else who chooses to live in dangerous coastal regions. I've heard of many people who have relocated for fear of these dangerous places, many of them in bad economic situations themselves. You accuse us of being close-minded, yet you apply your ignorant bull**** logic to this event. Just shutup.

[QUOTE=Mr Know It All]So, you've taken the situation of your sister who lives in Louisiana, and have basically attributed her situation to the situation of everyone else who chooses to live in dangerous coastal regions. I've heard of many people who have relocated for fear of these dangerous places, many of them in bad economic situations themselves. You accuse us of being close-minded, yet you apply your ignorant bull**** logic to this event. Just shutup.[/QUOTE]

I'm not the one generalizing, I'm providing an actual counter-example. Learn to ****ing read.

[QUOTE=nosurrender]i'm just concerned because your logic says that the residents chose disaster over safety, as if they knew this city was gonna get striken again, when in reality they chose their home over somewhere foreign. They don't see this coming, I don't see this coming. For the eye of a big ass hurricane of this magnitude to strike the same godd-mn city twice within a few years... It's a one in a thousand, and it just had to happen.[/QUOTE]

It's a freaking swamp for crying out loud, of course it's more likely to get hit by hurricanes than Pittsburg.

[QUOTE]Obviously, if this will continue to happen as often as it has been, I would urge anyone to abandon their homes, but no one can see the future.[/QUOTE]

Global warming = more hurricanes = it's going to happen again, and often. The state just needs to make the decision not to have but a small residential population in New Orleans who are just port workers.

Just outta curiosity, for all of you that are siding with Showtime and disagreeing with these people for not gettin the hell outta Dodge, where do folks reside?

[QUOTE=JayGuevara]Just outta curiosity, for all of you that are siding with Showtime and disagreeing with these people for not gettin the hell outta Dodge, where do folks reside?[/QUOTE]

I live in a big mansion in Beverly Hills. Is that what you want to hear?

Would be a nice turn of events for the people in Seattle if they got the Hornets, though I guess effectively that would end the "Hornets" name/colors in the NBA as they'd become the new Supersonics.

What a crazy path that franchise has taken.

I also think they should tweak their colors if that happens -- Black/gold/green would be cool.

[QUOTE=Mr Know It All]I live in a big mansion in Beverly Hills. Is that what you want to hear?[/QUOTE]

No, I wanted to hear the truth.

[QUOTE=Soundwave]Would be a nice turn of events for the people in Seattle if they got the Hornets, though I guess effectively that would end the "Hornets" name/colors in the NBA as they'd become the new Supersonics.

What a crazy path that franchise has taken.

I also think they should tweak their colors if that happens -- Black/gold/green would be cool.[/QUOTE]

Why don't people understand that Seattle isn't getting another team. The NBA, not just the former Sonics, has fallen out with the city over the stadium situation. It wasn't like with Vancouver whom the NBA never wanted to leave. Have you even listened to a word Stern has said?

[QUOTE=JayGuevara]Just outta curiosity, for all of you that are siding with Showtime and disagreeing with these people for not gettin the hell outta Dodge, where do folks reside?[/QUOTE]

southern california. and if my house was threatened once every few years with a natural disaster i would do everything i could to leave.

this is a problem that is part of a bigger cycle when people settle...and as a result the south as a whole takes in more government aid than it produces in gdp.

[quote=JayGuevara]No, I wanted to hear the truth.[/quote]

It is not where they live, but the fact that they do not have empathy for their fellow human being or have the ability to understand the situation they are in.

[QUOTE=Godfather]It is not where they live, but the fact that they do not have empathy for their fellow human being or have the ability to understand the situation they are in.[/QUOTE]

i have empathy for their suffering, and i think it's obvious that that area isn't working any more for living. time to change it up.

trying to define the situation as anyone of a different position is an ass? pretty lame.

[QUOTE=Mateo]It's a freaking swamp for crying out loud, of course it's more likely to get hit by hurricanes than Pittsburg.[/QUOTE]

Do you know anything about hurricanes? The amount above or below sea level doesn't affect how likely it is to have hurricanes, just he amount of damage that would be felt in the city if hit by the hurricane. The point that makes New Orleans prone to storms is that it is on the gulf coast.

[QUOTE=Mateo]Global warming = more hurricanes = it's going to happen again, and often. The state just needs to make the decision not to have but a small residential population in New Orleans who are just port workers.[/QUOTE]

Before Katrina hit can you name the last time a major storm hit New Orleans. In recent years the amount of storms making landfall in general has decreased, but this is the 2nd storm that should hit the New Orleans area in 4-5 years. If you are saying people should expect that a hurricane would hit New Orleans is stupid, when just 5 years ago the only people forecasting this happening were the It Could Happen Tomorrow people on the Weather Channel.

This thread is a disgrace. So many ignorant jack-asses poking fun at people in a really horrible situation.

The only good that has come from this thread is Showtime being added to my ignore list.

[QUOTE=2LeTTeRS]Do you know anything about hurricanes? The amount above or below sea level doesn't affect how likely it is to have hurricanes, just he amount of damage that would be felt in the city if hit by the hurricane. The point that makes New Orleans prone to storms is that it is on the gulf coast.



Before Katrina hit can you name the last time a major storm hit New Orleans. In recent years the amount of storms making landfall in general has decreased, but this is the 2nd storm that should hit the New Orleans area in 4-5 years. If you are saying people should expect that a hurricane would hit New Orleans is stupid, when just 5 years ago the only people forecasting this happening were the It Could Happen Tomorrow people on the Weather Channel.[/QUOTE]

every expert report i've heard has said hurricanes are only going to get more frequent and more powerful in the future. rising ocean water temperatures are to blame.

[QUOTE=SourGrapes]southern california. and if my house was threatened once every few years with a natural disaster i would do everything i could to leave.

this is a problem that is part of a bigger cycle when people settle...and as a result the south as a whole takes in more government aid than it produces in gdp.[/QUOTE]

But, New Orleans is much closer to Detroit than southern California. There's a lot more crime, a lot more poverty, a lot more unemployment, etc etc than a lot of other cities. Many of the residents of New Orleans don't have the means nor opportunities to just pack up and leave and start over again. That city is their home, their lives are entwined into that city, and many of them simply cannot afford to move elsewhere.

For instance, personally, I don't enjoy living in Detroit. I got over this city a couple years ago, and I've been trying to plan my escape since. But it's really not that simple for a city that entrenched in a perpetual cycle of poverty for the majority of it's residents. I have not been afforded the luxury of packing my **** up and headin to the west coast to live in LA and try and start my life over. Because whereas California is pretty much the image/fantasy of the "American Dream" to us poor minorities in the projects, most of us will never make it there. Myself, I refuse to accept my fate as another statistic in this third world city, but for a good majority of the people here and in other seemingly "hopeless" socio-economic scenarios, the weight of the world crushes their shoulders and spirits. It's not easy to just wake up, snap your fingers, and be in a better situation for yourself and your family, especially in places like New Orleans.

[QUOTE=Se

[QUOTE=JayGuevara]But, New Orleans is much closer to Detroit than southern California. There's a lot more crime, a lot more poverty, a lot more unemployment, etc etc than a lot of other cities. Many of the residents of New Orleans don't have the means nor opportunities to just pack up and leave and start over again. That city is their home, their lives are entwined into that city, and many of them simply cannot afford to move elsewhere.

For instance, personally, I don't enjoy living in Detroit. I got over this city a couple years ago, and I've been trying to plan my escape since. But it's really not that simple for a city that entrenched in a perpetual cycle of poverty for the majority of it's residents. I have not been afforded the luxury of packing my **** up and headin to the west coast to live in LA and try and start my life over. Because whereas California is pretty much the image/fantasy of the "American Dream" to us poor minorities in the projects, most of us will never make it there. Myself, I refuse to accept my fate as another statistic in this third world city, but for a good majority of the people here and in other seemingly "hopeless" socio-economic scenarios, the weight of the world crushes their shoulders and spirits. It's not easy to just wake up, snap your fingers, and be in a better situation for yourself and your family, especially in places like New Orleans.[/QUOTE]

i never said it was easy to change your circumstances, especially with the conservative bullsh*t the country has absorbed for the last eight years.

but, if you really want to change, you do. it's just human nature. not to be overly simplistic, but if you burn your hand, you move it. i have empathy for people, and think social initiatives are in order to change the status quo, but as soon as people don't make things happen for themselves, they will for certain be caught in negative circumstances.