Gervin " "I could get 30 or 40 every night real easy, these days"

Maggette would be stronger than Jordan.

Gervin got 32 and 33 a game in the 80's, I think he would probably be around 28-30 today.

[QUOTE=G-train]Maggette would be stronger than Jordan.[/QUOTE]


No, Jordan used to bench press the team bus before games.


Also, Craig Smith is probably stronger than Barkley, and roughly the same height.

[QUOTE=Sir Charles][B]Bigger stronger players? :no: :banghead: :hammerhead: :rolleyes:

Name one 6`4/6`5er in the NBA today that is as strong as Charles Barkley was? Yes the dude that picked up Shaq like a waste basket from the ground at age 36.?

I see none today :rolleyes:

Overall there is only one 7 footer that is as strong or stronger than Shaq and that is Wilt, a Player from the 60s escentially...I see none today other than Shaq

Name one PG stronger than Magic? I see none today

Name one one SG stronger than Jordan? I see none today

Actually in the 80s and 90s there was a tendancy to choose PFs that where stocky breed not thin breed like what i see today. Guys like Charles Oakley, Kevin Willis, Anthony Mason, Rick Mahorn, Otis Thorpe etc would crush 95% of the Powerforwards of today Strength wise because the NBA requiered physical play back then, while todays NBA has a policy of forced will in creating skilled players, because there arent many. Evidence: helping perimeter players score easier with the no handcheckin rules, easy lanes on to the basket, 5 second rule tured around the basket is anti Stocky Player etc..[/B][/QUOTE]


IF you think any player in any other era is bigger than LBJ your nuts. I would say Kobe is just as strong as Jordan Maybe i didnt make my point because of conditioning changes players are strong that doesnt mean they had the same strength Wes Unseld was strong as a mule but I bet even in his prime he could out lift D Howard in a weight room.

[QUOTE=Niquesports]IF you think any player in any other era is bigger than LBJ your nuts. I would say Kobe is just as strong as Jordan Maybe i didnt make my point because of conditioning changes players are strong that doesnt mean they had the same strength Wes Unseld was strong as a mule but I bet even in his prime he could out lift D Howard in a weight room.[/QUOTE]

Yeah, LBJ's a freak of nature. Its not even funny how easily he gets to the hoop. Anyway, you cant really argue with Sir Charles. He hates the current players.

You cannot be serious, the modern heavyweight should be between 6"3 and 6"8 & between 240-260lbs, what athletes fit that criteria? No, better boxers wouldnt magically appear but there would be more people between that body type actually training and working on their skills. And anytime you increase a talent pool you end up with better competition in the long run, if the NBA sticks with 30 teams for the next 5-10 years you will see more and more quality players on each team. It's simple statistics.

This is complete and utter garbage, Im sorry but you're just not a rational thinker. You sound like an ESPN talking point with all this crap about fundamentals, basically regurgitating whatever trash you've picked up. Everything you've just vomited out is nothing more than opinion, where are the facts to back it up?[


[B]Statistics work nice if they have are taken from Tested & Ideal Pools if not everything goes biased...Just because overall there are More People Playing Basketball Does Not = Better Basketball Players it just = More People Playing Basketball. What makes you think that if more play Basketball they will GET BETTER? That may work for countries that never had basketball as top sport. You Getter Better by Playing with BETTER PLAYERS THAN YOU not by PLAYING MORE GAMES (MORE TEAMS etc)[/B]

[QUOTE=Sir Charles][B]Bigger stronger players? :no: :banghead: :hammerhead: :rolleyes:

Name one 6`4/6`5er in the NBA today that is as strong as Charles Barkley was? Yes the dude that picked up Shaq like a waste basket from the ground at age 36.?

I see none today :rolleyes:

Overall there is only one 7 footer that is as strong or stronger than Shaq and that is Wilt, a Player from the 60s escentially...I see none today other than Shaq

Name one PG stronger than Magic? I see none today

Name one one SG stronger than Jordan? I see none today

Actually in the 80s and 90s there was a tendancy to choose PFs that where stocky breed not thin breed like what i see today. Guys like Charles Oakley, Kevin Willis, Anthony Mason, Rick Mahorn, Otis Thorpe etc would crush 95% of the Powerforwards of today Strength wise because the NBA requiered physical play back then, while todays NBA has a policy of forced will in creating skilled players, because there arent many. Evidence: helping perimeter players score easier with the no handcheckin rules, easy lanes on to the basket, 5 second rule tured around the basket is anti Stocky Player etc..[/B][/QUOTE]

shut up bietch

[QUOTE=Sir Charles][B]Guys like Charles Oakley, Kevin Willis, Anthony Mason, Rick Mahorn, Otis Thorpe etc would crush 95% of the Powerforwards of today Strength wise because the NBA requiered physical play back then, while todays NBA has a policy of forced will in creating skilled players, because there arent many. [/B][/QUOTE]

agree with this point. 'N.B.A' used to stand for "No Babies Allowed". Now it stand for "No Bullies Allowed." :ohwell:

[QUOTE=plowking]If anything it has more to do with IQ today. The game is simply not free flowing like it used to be, and thats why I think it is less enjoyable to most these days, as rankings would suggest.

The game has improved, as all sports and progressive activities do over time.[/QUOTE]

agree. Like I say it is the way the game is played today. Over time it becomes less agressive and more entertainment. In the 1960s if I am not mistaken there was almost no limit to what the post defender could do to the offensive post up man. Then they changed the rule in 1992 or 93, no more could the post defender use his knee, elbows, or two hands in the back to play defense. They reduced contact allowed. Then again in 2004, they completely eliminate physical contact. :banghead: Talent is up now, but overall game and aggressiveness along with 50% of the game on the defensive end is gone. Of course the superstar today would be great then, but the role players and overall teams in the 1980s is > today:applause:

[QUOTE=Niquesports]IF you think any player in any other era is bigger than LBJ your nuts. I would say Kobe is just as strong as Jordan Maybe i didnt make my point because of conditioning changes players are strong that doesnt mean they had the same strength Wes Unseld was strong as a mule but I bet even in his prime he could out lift D Howard in a weight room.[/QUOTE]


[B]Bryant as strong as Jordan? :roll: :no: Look at the clips...

Which 6`4/6`5er of todays game is Stronger than Barkley? (Barkley was so strong 7 footers where afraid of him) Name me one! :rolleyes:

Which PG is tronger than Magic?...Name me one!

1980s and 1990s PFs.

*By the way lifting weights will get you stronger and increase your weight of muscule but overal will only explode on your natural strength. [U]It will not make you natural strength stronger than it is[/U]. There are many players whom don`t have nice looking muscules (seem flabby) or are not as stocky as you think and are stronger than you think: Barkley and Oakley where those (way stronger than their muscule tone or weight), Rodman was one (way stronger than his thin 6`6-6`7 220 lbs frame).[/B]

[B]Anthony Mason: 6`8 ft / 265 lbs[/B]

[img]http://www.nba.com/media/amason_300_080412.jpg[/img]

[B]Charles Oakley: 6`8 ft / 245-260 lbs[/B]

[img]http://i.cdn.turner.com/sivault/image/1999/12/22/001291736.jpg[/img]

[img]http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/basketball/nba/news/2001/02/27/sayitaintso_knicks/oakley_all.jpg[/img]

[B]Kevin Willis: 7`0 / 245 lbs[/B]

[img]http://www.nba.com/media/hawks/willis_gallery1_254.jpg[/img]

[B]Charles Barkley: 6`4-6`5 ft/ 284-252 lbs (although rarely below 260 lbs, 252 for like 2-3 season at most)[/B]

[img]http://i.cdn.turner.com/sivault/image/1985/05/05/001093665.jpg[/img]

[B]Otis Thorpe: 6`10 ft/ 248 lbs[/B]

[img]http://i.cdn.turner.com/sivault/image/1993/02/25/001093687.jpg[/img]

[B]Larry Nance: 6`10 ft/ 235 lbs[/B]

[img]http://pagesperso-orange.fr/nba-history/images/as/nance_295_ADB20.jpg[/img]

[B]Ralph Sampson: 7`4 ft / 228 lbs[/B]

[img]http://p69.webcindario.com/modules/My_eGallery/gallery/NBA80s/jabbar_sampson_all.jpg[/img]

[B]Rick Mahorn: 6`10 ft/ 255 lbs[/B]

[img]http://i.cdn.turner.com/sivault/image/1989/05/21/001088703.jpg[/img]

[B]Roy Tarpley: 7`0 ft/ 245 lbs[/B]

[img]http://www.nba.com/media/mavericks/25th_tarpley.jpg[/img]

[B]Derrik Coleman: 6`10/ 270 lbs [/B]

[img]http://www.cbc.ca/gfx/topstory/sports/coleman_derrick0304.jpg[/img]

[B]Kevin McHale: 6`10 ft/ 225 lbs[/B]

[img]http://www.bostonsportscollect.com/catalog/e5_1_b_286_1.JPG[/img]

[url]http://community.seattletimes.nwsource.com/archive/?date=19940130&slug=1892621[/url]

[B]"No one can guard Kevin," Bird said, "especially in the playoffs."

[COLOR="Blue"]His arms were long enough to tie his shoes without bending over - and those arms were perhaps his greatest asset. McHale's wingspan, on his 6-10 body, has been estimated at [U]8 feet[/U][/COLOR].[/B]

[B][COLOR="DarkRed"]Tall Enough?, Big Enough?[/COLOR][/B]

[B]Karl Malone: 6`9 ft / 257 lbs (stronger than the weight you see)[/B]

[img]http://imagecache2.allposters.com/images/PHO/AAGC014.jpg[/img]

Sir Charles, your 1,136 posts prove Barkley>Duncan and 2-point FG is the greatest stat to ever judge a player.

[QUOTE=AItheAnswer3]Sir Charles, your 1,136 posts prove Barkley>Duncan and 2-point FG is the greatest stat to ever judge a player.[/QUOTE]

:rolleyes:

AI is a better scorer than this guy and i dont see him avg 40 a game.

[QUOTE=mongePR(kb24)]AI is a better scorer than this guy and i dont see him avg 40 a game.[/QUOTE]

[B]Better scorer at 42-40% FG and 22-26 FGA PG? :roll: :rolleyes: [/B]

[quote=Sir Charles][B]Better scorer at 42-40% FG and 22-26 FGA PG? :roll: :rolleyes: [/B][/quote]

Sir Charles...How do you think half these players would have dealt with the zone?

Barkley was 6'8".

[QUOTE=Godfather]Sir Charles...How do you think half these players would have dealt with the zone?[/QUOTE]

[B]Zone Defense is a Lie and it`s piece of cake for players whom have extreame Basketball IQ, court vision, passing game and fundamentals...whom can break that with ease. Just look at the 92 Dream Team and 96 Team for that[/B]

[quote=Sir Charles][B]Zone Defense is a Lie and it`s piece of cake for players whom have extreame Basketball IQ, court vision, passing game and fundamentals...whom can break that with ease. Just look at the 92 Dream Team and 96 Team for that[/B][/quote]

How can you use those teams as comparison, especially due to the level of competition they played. I am talking about a standard NBA team today with its star player replaced with a star from the past (lets take DWade and replace him with Gervin), how do you think the Miami Heat would then fair?

I think most star players would be fine in the other NBA eras. Just because players could play defense doesn't mean today's nba players would struggle. And Gergin, 30 or 40 every night.. my ass.

POSTING PICS DOES NOT MEAN ANYTHING that doesnt mean they are stronger than lebron okay. Stop your kissing ass to oldies.

[QUOTE=Niquesports]Can you name any runningback intodays game better than JIm Brown
Can you name 5 better baseplayers in todays game better than Hank Aaron,Mickey Mantle,Willie mays, Babe Ruth, Joe Dmagigo can you name a better boxer today than Ali,Joe Louis can you name a better hockey player today than Wayne G. So I guess basketball isnt the only sport that the old legends are better than todays players.[/QUOTE]

Like I said, the greats are the greats.

Though through development of the game, there are plenty of players that are more skilled, better, etc.
It's a natural process. Technique, technology, method of training, everything improves, thus you will have better players.

[QUOTE=Sir Charles][B]Zone Defense is a Lie and it`s piece of cake for players whom have extreame Basketball IQ, court vision, passing game and fundamentals...whom can break that with ease. Just look at the 92 Dream Team and 96 Team for that[/B][/QUOTE]

You're right, the whole league is just stupid today. There is not one good, smart player in the league today who is able to dominate the league.

Nice comparison, using the Dream Teams. Competition for them in the Olympics sure was as tough as the NBA today.

You are dense.

There is such thing as natural progression. Through watching previous generations the next generation is naturally going to be better then the next. That doesn't mean that each player is a great, though they are generally more well equiped then the previous generation.

[QUOTE=Godfather]I am talking about a standard NBA team today with its star player replaced with a star from the past (lets take DWade and replace him with Gervin), how do you think the Miami Heat would then fair?[/QUOTE]

It's impossible to realistically tell if the 06 Heat would win the title with any other player in NBA history -- several of the games were extraordinarily close. However, there's no reason to say Gervin couldn't do it. Gervin's incredible production carried over to the playoffs. He was extraordinarily consistent. He [B]averaged[/B] 50.8% in the playoffs. The only thing that Wade is clearly better at is going to the stripe -- he's had seasons of 9-10 FTAs a game, compared to Gervin's 6-7.

I also enjoy how you use Wade for this purpose, a player who makes a living off penetration and doesn't have much trouble with zones (one of the most efficient guards in the league and who will probably either go down as an all time great or the Bill Walton of SGs).

[QUOTE=inclinerator]POSTING PICS DOES NOT MEAN ANYTHING that doesnt mean they are stronger than lebron okay. Stop your kissing ass to oldies.[/QUOTE]

[B]They are stronger that is why they can play in the PF spot. They can rebound in the Post not away from the Post. Lebron is strong don`t get me wrong but he would not like to mess with guys like Charles Oakley, Barkley, Mason, Kevin Willis, Otis Thorpe, Derrick Coleman, Sampson etc[/B]

[B]If you messed with Barkley you get this[/B] :confusedshrug:

[url]http://es.youtube.com/watch?v=SpoAqEbxS18[/url]

[B]And George Gervin would average 30-35 PPG for more than 6 season in todays game at over 50% FG. He is by far a Better Inside Mid Range Shooter than Bryant, Has More Range, 6`7ft tALL!, Quick, Athletic Enough and especially: MORE TALENTED-SKILLED-RICH IN FUNDAMENTALS than 99% of the SGs of today.[/B]

[url]http://es.youtube.com/watch?v=dWqyvOGQ7MI&feature=related[/url]

[QUOTE=Sir Charles][B]They are stronger that is why they can play in the PF Post. They can rebound in the Post not away from the Post. Lebron is strong don`t get me wrong but he would not like to mess with guys like Charles Oakley, Barkley, Mason, Kevin Willis, [COLOR="Red"]Otis Thorpe[/COLOR], Derrick Coleman, Sampson etc[/B]

[B]If you messed with Barkley you get this[/B] :confusedshrug:

[url]http://es.youtube.com/watch?v=SpoAqEbxS18[/url][/QUOTE]

Otis Thorpe? You're kidding me, I'm probably stronger than him

Zo, Ben Wallets, Amare, Shaq, Brand, Howard, Okafor, Oden, Maxiell could all mix it with those dudes Sir Charles. There is probably more.

[QUOTE=plowking]You're right, the whole league is just stupid today. There is not one good, smart player in the league today who is able to dominate the league.

Nice comparison, using the Dream Teams. Competition for them in the Olympics sure was as tough as the NBA today.

You are dense.

There is such thing as natural progression. Through watching previous generations the next generation is naturally going to be better then the next. That doesn't mean that each player is a great, though they are generally more well equiped then the previous generation.[/QUOTE]

[B]False things can evolve to worst too [U]especially if you are trying to create more Jordan`s like Mr Stern has done in making it easier to play and score for perimter players and also avoid the contact of the natural Frontline = In Today`s Game Puss*******ies Allowed to Play[/U]. Jordan, Malone, Stockton where healthy in the NBA at ages 35-40 and they kept schooling 85% of the Players in the league at a blink of an eye.

Barkley against Shaq-Bryant-Horry-Rice etc at age 36 nearly...with chronic back and knee injueries averaged 23.5 PPG; 13.8 RPG, 3.8 APG and shooting close to 53% from the FG. Major Schooling done by a player that could hardly move or leap agains the following year NBA Champions:confusedshrug:

Even Jordan said the NBA`s game had gone down from his time. Magic came back in 95-96 after not playing Pro for 4-5 years and had way better numbers than half of the whole league at only 29 MPG as a Point-Powerforward (not even as a PG) . He even had a triple double in his 1st game after being out for 4-5 seasons:[/B]

[B]Comeback 95-96[/B]

[url]http://es.youtube.com/watch?v=_WVS2zpJBDI&feature=related[/url]

[B]36 year old MAGIC Schooling Zo`s Miami Heat 95-96 (27 Points, 9 Rebounds, 9 Assits)[/B]

[url]http://es.youtube.com/watch?v=zvLezfSvv4E[/url]

:bowdown:

[B]There is also a clip somewhere in youtube can`t find it where he talks to a reporter on how the game`s level had gone down since his retirement (expacting the obvious down fall in talent-fundamentals-skills-passing-bball Iq etc that was to come) :oldlol: [/B]

[QUOTE=Sir Charles][B]False things can evolve to worst too [U]especially if you are trying to create more Jordan`s like Mr Stern has done in making it easier to play and score for perimter players and also avoid the contact of the natural Frontline = Puss*******ies Allowed[/U]. Jordan, Malone, Stockton where healthy in the NBA at ages 35-40 and they kept schooling 85% of the Players in the league at a blink of an eye.

Barkley against Shaq-Bryant-Horry-Rice etc at age 36 nearly...with chronic back and knee injueries averaged 23.5 PPG; 13.8 RPG, 3.8 APG and shooting close to 53% from the FG. Major Schooling done by a player that could hardly move or leap agains the following year NBA Champions:confusedshrug:

Even Jordan said the NBA`s game had gone down from his time. Magic came back in 95-96 after not playing Pro and had way better numbers than half of the whole league at only 29 MPG as a Point Powerforward (not even as a PG) . He even had a triple double in his 1st game after being out for 4-5 seasons:[/B]

[B]Comeback 95-96[/B]

[url]http://es.youtube.com/watch?v=_WVS2zpJBDI&feature=related[/url]

[B]Schooling the Miami Heat 95-96[/B]

[url]http://es.youtube.com/watch?v=zvLezfSvv4E[/url]

:bowdown:

[B]There is also a clip where he talks to a reporter on how the game`s level had gone down since his retirement (expacting the obvious down fall in talent-fundamentals-skills-passing-bball Iq etc that was to come) :oldlol: [/B][/QUOTE]

Wait former players are saying their era was better? Well its settled. There we have it people, we needed one solid bit of information and we have it right here.

[QUOTE=G-train]Zo, Ben Wallets, Amare, Shaq, Brand, Howard, Okafor, Oden, Maxiell could all mix it with those dudes Sir Charles. There is probably more.[/QUOTE]

[B]I don`t see them messing with Shaq :confusedshrug: [/B]

[QUOTE=

[QUOTE=plowking]Wait former players are saying their era was better? Well its settled. There we have it people, we needed one solid bit of information and we have it right here.[/QUOTE]

[B]Wrong...Magic just said the truth he wasn`t makin fun of anybody he just said the level of game competition, IQ-Ball, Passing Game, Skills had gone down since the 80s.

If i was Zo and Tim Hardaway (both PRIME!) I would have commited suicide if a 36 year old man that[U] has not played 4-5 years in the NBA [/U] just returns [U]playing another position (from PG to PF)[/U] and does this to my team at home[/B]

[url]http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/199603270MIA.html[/url]

:eek: :pimp: :oldlol: :bowdown: :rockon: :cheers:

[QUOTE=Manute for Ever!]Otis Thorpe? You're kidding me, I'm probably stronger than him[/QUOTE]

Let's play word association with Joe Dumars (Psst, look under strongest):

[url]http://www.nba.com/pistons/features/word_association_team.html[/url]


Let's play word association regarding Manute For Ever: "Doesn't Do His Homework. :no:


[IMG]http://clutchfans.net/images/profiles/Otis_Thorpe.jpg[/IMG]

[QUOTE=Kiddlovesnets]80's is the strongest era in NBA history so why he'd average even less points?[/QUOTE]

Because the game was played at a faster tempo. A lot faster.

[QUOTE=Sir Charles][B]I don`t see them messing with Shaq :confusedshrug: [/B][/QUOTE]

I dont care if want to argue about the 80's being a more talented era, but you have ZERO argument that the players were stronger in the 80's than they are today.

And yes I have seen Alonzo Mourning 'messing' with Shaq.

[QUOTE=Sir Charles][B]Wrong...Magic just said the truth he wasn`t makin fun of anybody he just said the level of game competition, IQ-Ball, Passing Game, Skills had gone down since the 80s.

If i was Zo and Tim Hardaway (both PRIME!) I would have commited suicide if a 36 year old man that[U] has not played 4-5 years in the NBA [/U] just returns [U]playing another position (from PG to PF)[/U] and does this to my team at home[/B]

[url]http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/199603270MIA.html[/url]

:eek: :pimp: :oldlol: :bowdown: :rockon: :cheers:[/QUOTE]

Basketball IQ is the most overrated thing I've heard. If this guy had better BBall IQ he'd be awesome... :rolleyes:

Furthermore how have skills decreased? Passing is still a strong facet of the game with guards like Nash, Paul, Deron, Calderon. The number they average with the slowed down pace of the game is on par with that of previous generations.

The only reason things like FG have gone down for wing players is due to zone defense. They are forced to take outside jumpers. Of course there are going to be less made shots.

[QUOTE=G-train]I dont care if want to argue about the 80's being a more talented era, but you have ZERO argument that the players were stronger in the 80's than they are today.

And yes I have seen Alonzo Mourning 'messing' with Shaq.[/QUOTE]

[B]A center wow :rolleyes: did he pick him up and throw him to the ground?:confusedshrug:[/B]

[B]The NBA`s level decrease after 1992 its a fact, then again in 1996 and beyond that its just hilarious:confusedshrug: [/B]

[B]By the way the league had more pace in the 80s because players had way more Full Court B_Ball IQ (knew how to move in the cout) and actually had a Passing Game.[/B]