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[QUOTE=Roundball_Rock]MJ and Kobe combined do not even equal Wilt's 271. :bowdown:
[IMG]http://i1.ytimg.com/vi/t73ObkdKgFE/mqdefault.jpg[/IMG]
This graphic says it all. :lol Jordan led the league in FGA per game perenially; even at age 38 he was 2nd in FGA per game.[/QUOTE]
Still shot 47% in the process.
Yeah--on average. He took 20+ at minimum every night regardless of how he was shooting. See his 1993 game logs, for example. [URL="http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/j/jordami01/gamelog/1993/"]http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/j/jordami01/gamelog/1993/[/URL]
4 for 20
6 for 19
9 for 27
5 for 14
10 for 28
9 for 25
13 for 36
8 for 22
13 for 34
10 for 26
8 for 20
10 for 25
9 for 22
12 for 29
This is a guy who came from the baseball field and put up 28 shots out the gate (on 25% shooting), even though a teammate scored 31 on 55% in the same game.
[QUOTE=Money 23]No, by 1990 / 1991 MJ was having to pull his personal game back for the betterment of a team in contention for a championship. He was having to be a responsible leader.
As Loki said, he also didn't focus solely on scoring, allowing other aspects to his game in the Kobe comparison sake, defense, to take nose dives in order to put up volume scoring numbers.
And while one could make the argument MJ had his early years '85 - '89 where he was on a bad team, in his athletic prime being able to score as much as he wanted to ... the give and take to that is Kobe during his early years was already putting championships on his resume by helping an all-time great in Shaquille O'Neal. He got rings on his resume instead of scoring titles.
But the BULK of Kobe's 40+ point games came at his absolute peak / prime in a two to three year stretch 2006 - 2008. Not just his athletic prime like Jordan from '85 - '89 but his total prime / peak. Meaning the greatest combination he'd have in terms of physical ability, skill, and knowledge (championship level knowledge and experience at that)
Players usually peak at 27, 28, 29 and sometimes 30 years old. That's usually the area of their best stretch. They are still young enough to have all the physical advantages, stamina, athleticism, with just enough experience, maturity, and years of honed skill set and basketball intelligence.
Kobe in his absolute PEAK years was playing on a team headed NO WHERE, where he was allowed to cheat and relax on defense and put up the best scoring numbers he could in a coincidental couple season where league wide rules changed to aid the perimeter player. Not taking away from Kobe, as he's one of the greatest, but this is the truth ... and this is a counter argument to your ridiculous claim.
So, Kobe's best 40 point seasons came at his peak, when that's all he was asked to do was score on teams not competing for championships. Meanwhile ...
MJ at 27, 28, 29, and 30 years old ... also known as HIS PEAK was busy being the floor general and utility man for a team competing for rings. You put PEAK Michael Jordan (1991, 1992, 1993 versions) on a team the caliber of the 2006, 2007, and 2008 Lakers (pre Gasol) and tell him he can relax on defense and focus on scoring?!!!!
His numbers would be MONSTEROUS. MJ was at his absolute best from '91 - '93. Virtually all the athleticism of '85 - '89 MJ, with even more skill, maturity, and experience. I shutter to think what '91, or '92, or '93 MJ would do from a scoring perspective with a non championship caliber team.
Imagine what MJ could do if say he faced the lowly Clippers and wanted to have a self indulgent scoring game?
:pimp:[/QUOTE]
[IMG]http://files-cdn.formspring.me/photos/20120701/n4ff111c3464c4.gif[/IMG]
[QUOTE=Glide2keva]He has 111 today. I think.[/QUOTE]
117
[QUOTE=Roundball_Rock]Yeah--on average. He took 20+ at minimum every night regardless of how he was shooting. See his 1993 game logs, for example. [URL="http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/j/jordami01/gamelog/1993/"]http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/j/jordami01/gamelog/1993/[/URL]
4 for 20
6 for 19
9 for 27
5 for 14
10 for 28
9 for 25
13 for 36
8 for 22
13 for 34
10 for 26
8 for 20
10 for 25
9 for 22
12 for 29
This is a guy who came from the baseball field and put up 28 shots out the gate (on 25% shooting), even though a teammate scored 31 on 55% in the same game.[/QUOTE]
Why are you in this thread? Pippen hasn't been mentioned once. Just change your avatar to a Kobe face and stop the charade.
What are the numbers for 30 point games and 50 point games for each player?
[QUOTE=Tking714]What are the numbers for 30 point games and 50 point games for each player?[/QUOTE]
Most 30 point games alltime (Regular Season)
MJ - 562
Wilt - 515
K. Malone - 435
Kareem - 429
Kobe - 406
Oscar - 387
West - 350
Wilkins - 346
Iverson - 345
Baylor - 343
[url]http://www.nbastats.net/01NBA/02morerecords/01-Points07-Regsea.xls[/url] (I updated Kobe's)
I can't find the full list of 50 point games but I know the top 3 in the regular season
Wilt - 118
MJ - 31
Kobe - 24
[QUOTE=Deuce Bigalow]Most 30 point games alltime (Regular Season)
MJ - 562
Wilt - 515
K. Malone - 435
Kareem - 429
Kobe - 406
Oscar - 387
West - 350
Wilkins - 346
Iverson - 345
Baylor - 343
[url]http://www.nbastats.net/01NBA/02morerecords/01-Points07-Regsea.xls[/url] (I updated Kobe's)
I can't find the full list of 50 point games but I know the top 3 in the regular season
Wilt - 118
MJ - 31
Kobe - 24[/QUOTE]
Thanks. I figured Jordan was the more consistent 30ppg scorer. Wilt was capable of getting Monster games, but he fluctuated a bit more.
MJ's 30 point games must have been on the higher end of the spectrum (ie. more games in the 36 - 39 ppg range) than the other players as well
[QUOTE=sammdogg]Kobe Bryant, who scored only 26 points in the Lakers' win over the Blazers on Sunday, topped the 40-point mark for the 94th time of his career in a victory over the Jazz on Friday. Here is a look at where he ranks on the all-time list.
Most career 40-point games
Wilt Chamberlain 271
Michael Jordan 173
Kobe Bryant 94
Elgin Baylor 88
Allen Iverson 79
Source: ESPN
[B]Do u think kobe will pass MJ in 40 point games?[/B][/QUOTE]
:oldlol: :oldlol: :oldlol:
[QUOTE=Tking714]Thanks. I figured Jordan was the more consistent 30ppg scorer. Wilt was capable of getting Monster games, but he fluctuated a bit more.
MJ's 30 point games must have been on the higher end of the spectrum (ie. more games in the 36 - 39 ppg range) than the other players as well[/QUOTE]
Funny you should say that. Speaking of high scoring games, Jordan has by far the most games of 47-49 points after Wilt. Kobe is close enough in terms of 50 point games (in the regular season, that is), trailing MJ's 31 games of 50+ points with 24 games of 50+ of his own. However, look at what each of them did in the 46-49 point range. Here are the number of games they've scored exactly that number of points in the regular season:
Jordan:
46 pts - 7 games
47 pts - 9 games
48 pts - 3 games
49 pts - 9 games
Kobe:
46 pts - 5 games
47 pts - 1 game
48 pts - 4 games
49 pts - 1 game
As you can see, no one is close to Jordan in terms of high scoring games in the modern era. Crazy that he had 9 games of 49 points - think of how many game of 50+ he could have had! :eek: He conceivably could have had 10+ more games of 50+ points on his resume.
When you look at the playoffs, it's an even bigger discrepancy:
Jordan:
46 pts - 5 games
47 pts - 2 games
48 pts - 2 games
49 pts - 2 games
Kobe:
46 pts - 0 games
47 pts - 0 games
48 pts - 1 game
49 pts - 1 game
Again, a huge gulf. And Jordan is already way out in front in terms of 50+ point games in the playoffs (8 for MJ versus 1 for Kobe). Then ad these games of 46-49 points in there as well and it's easy to see why MJ was the most dominant playoff performer in history.
Hey Roundball Rock, that graphic is from the second three-peat and in the playoffs. Maybe the reason that Jordan had to take so many shots was because your boy Pippen was stinking up the joint with 39.0%, 41.7%, and 41.5% FG in the '96-'98 postseasons despite much lower ppg volume than MJ (16.9, 19.2, and 16.2 ppg in those postseasons) and seeing far less defensive attention than Jordan. Maybe if Pippen were more efficient and didn't disappear offensively those postseasons he would have warranted more shot attempts.
put kobe on any other team then the lakers for his first 10+ years and he would have 250+ right now. fact.
[QUOTE=Rysio]put kobe on any other team then the lakers for his first 10+ years and he would have 250+ right now. fact.[/QUOTE]
Assuming he had a bad team for the entire 10 years, sure, maybe. Jordan would have had about 400+ if that were the case.
[QUOTE=OldSchoolBBall]Assuming he had a bad team for the entire 10 years, sure, maybe. Jordan would have had about 400+ if that were the case.[/QUOTE]
he was on bad teams from 85-90 and 01-03. thats about 10 years where his 400 at? :no:
[QUOTE=OldSchoolBBall]Assuming he had a bad team for the entire 10 years, sure, maybe. Jordan would have had about 400+ if that were the case.[/QUOTE]
In just the '87 and '88 seasons alone, he had 55 total 40+ games. He had an additional twelve games of 40+ through the first 57 games of the '89 season before the move to PG when he was averaging 11 apg, but still had a streak of 3 consecutive 40+ games after the move. More impressively, he had 21 games with 40+ in the '90 season on a 55 win team. And during these pre-championship years, he had three 40+ games in the '88 playoffs, 7 in the '89 playoffs and 6 in the '90 playoffs in addition to a lone 40+ game in the '87 playoffs.
So in just 4 seasons, that's 91 regular season 40+ games and 17 in the playoffs in just 46 playoff games during that time. To put that in perspective, I looked it up a while ago, and no recent player has even approached 17 40+ playoff games in their entire career. The closest have been Kobe at 13, Shaq at 12, Hakeem and Lebron at 11 and Iverson at 10.
I have wondered what '90-'92 MJ would have on the '87 and '88 Bulls individually. What he did in the 90's was more impressive, but it's interesting to think of prime MJ in a position to score as much as possible.
[QUOTE=Rysio]he was on bad teams from 85-90 and 01-03. thats about 10 years where his 400 at? :no:[/QUOTE]
I know I shouldn't bother since you're trolling, but this will only take a second. 39/40 years old with the Wizards, a rookie in '85, missed most of the '86 season and had his minutes limited when he did play, and the '90 team doesn't qualify as a bad team, they contended for a title.
Just imagine what he would have done if he was the #1 option his entire career.
Probably something like 200+ 40 pt games, 40 50+ pt games, and 10 60+ pt games. Dude has nearly 20! 50+ pt games and 4 different 60+ pt games in a two-season span. Insane.
[QUOTE=ShaqAttack3234]
I have wondered what '90-'92 MJ would have on the '87 and '88 Bulls individually. What he did in the 90's was more impressive, but it's interesting to think of prime MJ in a position to score as much as possible.[/quote]
Peak Jordan ('91, '92, '93) v.s. Peak Kobe (2006, 2007, 2008) in comparable team situations ... it would be absurd to think about. Especially if scoring is Jordan's main focus, the way it was Kobe's those couple seasons.
Kobe could've made plays while scoring and facilitated more and been a more balanced team leader (ala 2008) in 2006 and 2007 in order to help the Lakers win games but no, he purposely was doing his scoring binge thing in 2006 and 2007 because the opportunity presented itself, and it feeds into Kobe's legacy goals.
I think it's very conceivable peak Jordan could have had a few 60's and 70 point games if he was willing. And god knows how many 50 and 40 point games. Especially if MJ took advantage of bad teams the way Kobe so readily did those seasons (2006 Raptors, 2007 Bobcats, 2007 Blazers, 2007 Hornets)
[QUOTE=Rysio]he was on bad teams from 85-90 and 01-03. thats about 10 years where his 400 at? :no:[/QUOTE]
Err, try again kid. He was on poor/average teams in '85, '87, 88, and '89. That's 5 seasons. By 1990 the Bulls were a very good team - likely the second or third best team in the league. He was 39/40 on the Wizards.
[QUOTE=OldSchoolBBall]Err, try again kid. He was on poor/average teams in '85, '87, 88, and '89. That's 5 seasons. By 1990 the Bulls were a very good team - likely the second or third best team in the league. He was 39/40 on the Wizards.[/QUOTE]
and in those 5 seasons he only had 77 40+ games. if he played 10 on those teams he'd get 180 at the very most. 400? lol you need to stop trolling kid.
[QUOTE=Jacks3]Just imagine what he would have done if he was the #1 option his entire career.
Probably something like 200+ 40 pt games, 40 50+ pt games, and 10 60+ pt games. Dude has nearly 20! 50+ pt games and 4 different 60+ pt games in a two-season span. Insane.[/QUOTE]
Kobe's 35 and 40 point streaks in 2003 came after Phil essentially made him the first option, and that's around the time the Lakers took off after a miserable start. It's interesting that most of his greatest individual feats have come after he was gvenhe green light such as those streaks, the entire 2006 season and the late 2007 stretch. He scored 40+ in 9 of the 17 games after Phil told him to shoot more in 2007, including [B]seven 50+ games[/B].
[QUOTE=Money 23]Peak Jordan ('91, '92, '93) v.s. Peak Kobe (2006, 2007, 2008) in comparable team situations ... it would be absurd to think about. Especially if scoring is Jordan's main focus, the way it was Kobe's those couple seasons.
Kobe could've made plays while scoring and facilitated more and been a more balanced team leader (ala 2008) in 2006 and 2007 in order to help the Lakers win games but no, he purposely was doing his scoring binge thing in 2006 and 2007 because the opportunity presented itself, and it feeds into Kobe's legacy goals.
I think it's very conceivable peak Jordan could have had a few 60's and 70 point games if he was willing. And god knows how many 50 and 40 point games. Especially if MJ took advantage of bad teams the way Kobe so readily did those seasons (2006 Raptors, 2007 Bobcats, 2007 Blazers, 2007 Hornets)[/QUOTE]
I'd include '90 Jordan, I don't think he's ever been a better scorer and that version of Jordan is about as good as any, imo. I included '90 instead of '93 because I think '90 Jordan had a bit more stamina which I think would equate to more 40+ games on a bad team.
I have no problem with how Kobe played in '06 and '07 given the teams he was on and what he was asked to do. Phil asked Kobe to carry the team in '06 because he thought it'd take a while for them to get use to the triangle, and in '07, he was playing unselfishly early and the Lakers were a surprising 26-15 at the halfway mark, but fell off after that, and Phil told Kobe to start shooting when they were on a losing streak which resulted in the 65 vs Portland and those 4 straight 50+ games. Only thing I can criticize about '07 Kobe is his defense.
[QUOTE=OldSchoolBBall]Funny you should say that. Speaking of high scoring games, Jordan has by far the most games of 47-49 points after Wilt. Kobe is close enough in terms of 50 point games (in the regular season, that is), trailing MJ's 31 games of 50+ points with 24 games of 50+ of his own. However, look at what each of them did in the 46-49 point range. Here are the number of games they've scored exactly that number of points in the regular season:
Jordan:
46 pts - 7 games
47 pts - 9 games
48 pts - 3 games
49 pts - 9 games
Kobe:
46 pts - 5 games
47 pts - 1 game
48 pts - 4 games
49 pts - 1 game
As you can see, no one is close to Jordan in terms of high scoring games in the modern era. Crazy that he had 9 games of 49 points - think of how many game of 50+ he could have had! :eek: He conceivably could have had 10+ more games of 50+ points on his resume.
When you look at the playoffs, it's an even bigger discrepancy:
Jordan:
46 pts - 5 games
47 pts - 2 games
48 pts - 2 games
49 pts - 2 games
Kobe:
46 pts - 0 games
47 pts - 0 games
48 pts - 1 game
49 pts - 1 game
Again, a huge gulf. And Jordan is already way out in front in terms of 50+ point games in the playoffs (8 for MJ versus 1 for Kobe). Then ad these games of 46-49 points in there as well and it's easy to see why MJ was the most dominant playoff performer in history.
Hey Roundball Rock, that graphic is from the second three-peat and in the playoffs. Maybe the reason that Jordan had to take so many shots was because your boy Pippen was stinking up the joint with 39.0%, 41.7%, and 41.5% FG in the '96-'98 postseasons despite much lower ppg volume than MJ (16.9, 19.2, and 16.2 ppg in those postseasons) and seeing far less defensive attention than Jordan. Maybe if Pippen were more efficient and didn't disappear offensively those postseasons he would have warranted more shot attempts.[/QUOTE]
So 39 higher end 40 point games for Jordan, and 13 for Kobe. Again I figured as much but it's crazy to actually see the number.