No triple-double for LeBron in NY: NBA rescinds that 10th rebound

[QUOTE=Jacks3]Kobe:
31 shots 20 ft attempts 3 assists 2 turnovers = 46 possesions resulting in 67 points (2 pts per assist)

67/46 = 1.46 pts per possesion

+/- +19

Bron:
33 shots 19 ft attemps 11 assists 3 turnovers = 56 possesions resulting in 74 points (2 points per assist)

74/56 = 1.34 pts per possesion

+/- +7

Overal Kobe had the more efficient and effective night. What about the rebounds? Yes Lebron pulled down those 10 boards boards but take a closer look and you will see that they were out rebounded by NY meaning he as a forward HAD to get as many as possible. The Lakers on the other hand outrebounded NY by a wide margin and the forwards were gobbling up nearly as many as Cle had as a team. With Pau and Lamar getting 14 apiece there wasn't much for Kobe to grab. It was a strange night for him not to grab any but with LA getting 52 total and a +10 margin, he didn't have to at all.

Another thing I noticed is that LA had 25 assists total to 20 for the Cavs which tells me that despite all the assists he got, he was somewhat stagnating the offense and dominating the ball. Kobe on the other hand was getting his points in the flow of the offense, off ball movement and getting to his spots. I think that showed in the +/- and the closeness of the game.

Both were rediculously amazing performances, but I beg to differ with Spike Lee. Kobe had the better game, individually and team wise.[/QUOTE]
good post, droppin knowledge like gallileo dropped an orange

[QUOTE=RedBlackAttack]I've done statistics for basketball many, many times. It is a difficult task and, sometimes, there are rebounds, assists, or steals that could go to several players... it is completely arbitrary and subjective.

[B]It happens all the time in the league and I'm wondering why this one play (that I can remember) warrants being changed. Even the call that they overruled was an arbitrary call. Wallace was sort of juggling the ball and LeBron gained control. [/B]

Did this warrant a league review and overturn?[/QUOTE]

To me wallace was not juggling the ball he had possession of it and flipped it to Lebron. The only reason I can think of to change it is the historic nature of the event. One less rebound doesn't make it a lesser performance but if you're going to tout something for the record books then it makes sense to do it right, especially since it got so much exposure already.

[QUOTE=Indian guy]Bwahahaha :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

You are the biggest LeBron hater I know of on the net, and that's something given the amount of LAKER fans out there. I think it's time you land on my IL. Good Bye.[/QUOTE]
The question now becomes, does Fatal actually BELIEVE that he is an unbiased source of information regarding LeBron? The guy enters nearly every Cavalier or LeBron related thread and attempts to downplay his role in games and diminish his impact as a player, overall.

Honestly... I can't think of a more biased poster that can actually formulate a discernible sentence and isn't a gimmick account.

[QUOTE=Diesel J]wtf?????? When players do that tapping out techniques and another player on their team gets the ball, the guy that gets the ball gets credit for the rebound. [/QUOTE]

I don't know, last time I checked, the guy who did the tapping out got credit. But I just watched that Cavs-Knicks game and Ben Wallace did that twice and Mo Williams and Wally got credit for the rebounds :confusedshrug:

[QUOTE]wtf?????? When players do that tapping out techniques and another player on their team gets the ball, the guy that gets the ball gets credit for the rebound. I know this for sure because I've seen this happen numerous time with Chandler (batting the lose ball ) and CP3 coming up with the ball for the rebound.


key word...


Quote:
The league said the rebound with 39.3 seconds left should have been credited to Cavaliers center Ben Wallace, who tapped a loose ball that James grabbed.


LBJ was robbed[/QUOTE]

That's not what happened, though. He didn't "tap the ball". Wallace tapped the ball himself several times and had it under control. Then when the defender pressured him, he shovel passed it to LeBron.

[QUOTE=RedBlackAttack]The question now become, does Fatal actually BELIEVE that he is an unbiased source of information regarding LeBron?[/quote]

Not unless he's retarded. The guy's entire life on this board has revolved around hating LeBron and protecting Kobe.

[QUOTE=Mikaiel]:lol Yeah, totally unbiased. You just said LeBron getting 9 boards was not a good thing cos he didn't leak out for transition buckets. Really ? :oldlol:[/QUOTE]
No I didn't?

I said Kobe NOT leaking out for fast breaks while fighting for rebounds with his own teammates is a bad thing. I watched the games and outside of maybe one or two rebounds, all of Lebron's were with his teammates around him. I'm not saying he is stat padding, which is an outrageous claim anyways, but his rebounding numbers don't really mean he is securing boards which his teammates wouldn't have gotten. Plus, he got 0 offensive boards so he didn't even end up adding any possessions for his team with those rebounds.

[QUOTE=Indian guy]Not unless he's retarded. The guy's entire life on this board has revolved around hating LeBron and protecting Kobe.[/QUOTE]


F@got9

:oldlol: :roll: :oldlol:

[QUOTE=Mikaiel][b]I don't know, last time I checked, the guy who did the tapping out got credit[/b]. But I just watched that Cavs-Knicks game and Ben Wallace did that twice and Mo Williams and Wally got credit for the rebounds :confusedshrug:[/QUOTE]

Nope, they don't. I've seen this happen numerous time with Chandler and Cp3. let me see if I can find a video example

[QUOTE=RedBlackAttack]The question now becomes, does Fatal actually BELIEVE that he is an unbiased source of information regarding LeBron? The guy enters nearly every Cavalier or LeBron related thread and attempts to downplay his role in games and diminish his impact as a player, overall.

Honestly... I can't think of a more biased poster that can actually formulate a discernible sentence and isn't a gimmick account.[/QUOTE]
I never attempt to unfairly criticize Lebron. My main criticism has in the past been his playoff performances, which I reinforce with statistics and observations. I have always maintained that he is no worse than second best and that it is too close to call for the title of "best player in the league". I never said he was not effective, though I do admit his game and skills are not pleasing to my tastes.

I praise him when he does well in game threads and criticize the glaring weaknesses in his game. I certainly don't have this "defend Lebron at all costs" attitude like you and IG.

They just showed the play again on NBA Shootaround and it was FAR from a 'shovel pass' by Wallace. Ben tipped the ball twice with one hand as a defender drew near and LeBron grabbed the ball after the second tip. I don't know what exactly the rule is on tipping a rebound and actually securing possession, but there is no doubt that Ben HAD NOT gained possession on that rebound and it may have gone out-of-bounds had LeBron not grabbed it after the second tip.

I had not really taken a close look at that play until after this announcement, but after seeing it several times minutes ago, I'm amazed that the league took the rebound away.

It should be noted that Legler and Avery Johnson both mocked the league for doing what it did.

[QUOTE=RedBlackAttack]They just showed the play again on NBA Shootaround and it was FAR from a 'shovel pass' by Wallace. Ben tipped the ball twice with one hand as a defender drew near and LeBron grabbed the ball after the second tip. I don't know what exactly the rule is on tipping a rebound and actually securing possession, but there is no doubt that Ben HAD NOT gained possession on that rebound and it may have gone out-of-bounds had LeBron not grabbed it after the second tip.

I had not really taken a close look at that play until after this announcement, but after seeing it several times minutes ago, I'm amazed that the league took the rebound away.

It should be noted that Legler and Avery Johnson both mocked the league for doing what it did.[/QUOTE]
Dunno about that: [URL="http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/blog/ball_dont_lie/post/Video-Slap-an-asterisk-on-LeBron-s-MSG-triple-d;_ylt=AstYgTYo9NY1J3cCs5w4yks5nYcB?urn=nba,139191"]The contested rebound[/URL]. Seems like a pretty clear hand off from Wallace to Lebron to me.

[QUOTE=Fatal9]Plus, he got 0 offensive boards so he didn't even end up adding any possessions for his team with those rebounds.[/QUOTE]

You don't add any possessions for your team with a defensive rebound ? Hmm ...

All this talk about LeBron's rebounding is ridiculous. I guess the ball just happens to bounce his way 7 times a game. He must be the luckiest small forward in the league, since the vast majority of the other SFs don't even average 6 a game. And even if your teammates can come up with it, if you're in good position, you don't think twice about it and you grab that motherf*cking rebound. The sooner you get the board the better. Seriously do you play basketball ?

[QUOTE=jrong]That's not what happened, though. He didn't "tap the ball". Wallace tapped the ball himself several times and had it under control. Then when the defender pressured him, he shovel passed it to LeBron.[/QUOTE]

Wallace did tap it twice but from the angle that I've seen, he clearly didn't have full posession of the ball. He basically tapped it twice in the air and then did a third tap (not an actual hand off) towards Lebron (lebron gets full control of it after that).

[QUOTE=Fatal9]I never attempt to unfairly criticize Lebron. My main criticism has in the past been his playoff performances, which I reinforce with statistics and observations. I have always maintained that he is no worse than second best and that it is too close to call for the title of "best player in the league". I never said he was not effective, though I do admit his game and skills are not pleasing to my tastes.

I praise him when he does well in game threads and criticize the glaring weaknesses in his game. I certainly don't have this "defend Lebron at all costs" attitude like you and IG.[/QUOTE]
Are you f#cking kidding me? I call LeBron out for his bad games when they occur and I also have serious problems with his shot selection at times. I've also been a big critic of his free throw shooting throughout the years, although to a lesser extent this year since he has improved that area of his game.

I also absolutely slammed LeBron for discussing possible moves in 2010 during the season.

If you think that I defend LeBron at all costs, you haven't read many of my posts.

I've never seen you, on the other hand, miss an opportunity to take a position opposite LeBron on every topic. Saying 'good game' in a game thread (if you indeed did it, which I didn't see) does not cancel out five paragraph arguments against LeBron, which you have been doing for years.

[QUOTE=barbaroi]Dunno about that: [URL="http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/blog/ball_dont_lie/post/Video-Slap-an-asterisk-on-LeBron-s-MSG-triple-d;_ylt=AstYgTYo9NY1J3cCs5w4yks5nYcB?urn=nba,139191"]The contested rebound[/URL]. Seems like a pretty clear hand off from Wallace to Lebron to me.[/QUOTE]
So... you are maintaining that Wallace had full possession of the ball? I don't know how anyone could watch that play and come to that conclusion. He tapped it twice with one hand and LeBron grabbed it after the second tap. Is that not what happened? A handoff? Really?

[QUOTE=RedBlackAttack]So... you are maintaining that Wallace had full possession of the ball? I don't know how anyone could watch that play and come to that conclusion. He tapped it twice with one hand and LeBron grabbed it after the second tap. Is that not what happened? A handoff? Really?[/QUOTE]
Chill man lol. I'm just going by that angle. Another angle may tell a different story, but from that angle it does look like that was wallace's board.

[QUOTE=Mikaiel]You don't add any possessions for your team with a defensive rebound ? Hmm ...

All this talk about LeBron's rebounding is ridiculous. I guess the ball just happens to bounce his way 7 times a game. He must be the luckiest small forward in the league, since the vast majority of the other SFs don't even average 6 a game. And even if your teammates can come up with it, if you're in good position, you don't think twice about it and you grab that motherf*cking rebound. The sooner you get the board the better. Seriously do you play basketball ?[/QUOTE]
Kobe dropped 2 triple doubles a week after Lebron and Paul had theirs. This was not a coincidence, he hung around the basket more and racked up a lot of defensive boards. If you linger around the basket enough you'll have plenty of opportunities to collect boards as the other team is already heading back on D. Very easy to add about 3-4 rebounds to your total this way. Kobe, Paul and Lebron have all done this, especially on nights when you just know they are looking for a triple double.

[QUOTE=barbaroi]Chill man lol. I'm just going by that angle. Another angle may tell a different story, but from that angle it does look like that was wallace's board.[/QUOTE]


They need to show a video of that play from the inner baseline camera view. IMO, Wallace never had full possession of that ball..he basically did a double tap before he stepped out towards Lebron and Lebron got control of it.

A tap is a rebound.

So, Wallace had 1 rebound that game... He tapped the ball out at least two times and wasn't credited for the rebounds. What's the difference?

[QUOTE=OneMoreSucka]A tap is a rebound.[/QUOTE]

to who? The tapper or the guy that gets the ball? I just did a little detective work to prove my point that the guy doing the tapping doesn't get credit for the rebound (the tapper technically doesn't have full possession) but the guy that gathers the ball and has full possession does.

I mentioned a few posts back that I've seen this happen numeround times with Chandler (tapping) and Cp3 (gathering and getting credit for the board) so here goes some evidence.

[b]Hornets vs. Mavericks Game 5 Playoffs 2008[/b]

[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zOd9SfUPtVk[/url]

^^Look @ the video above from 1:14-1:19 (the score is NO 97 to 94 Dallas)

CP3 misses the jumper and Chandler taps it back out and the ball goes to CP3. CP3 gets credit for an offensive rebound on this play...

Now here goes the actual play by play to confirm this...

[b]Dallas vs. New Orleans - Play By Play - April 29, 2008 - ESPN[/b]

[url]http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/playbyplay?gameId=280429003[/url]

^^scroll down all the way to [b]0:08[/b]

0:33 New Orleans 20 Sec. timeout

0:08 94-97 Chris Paul misses 17-foot jumper
[b]0:07 94-97 Chris Paul offensive rebound[/b]
0:05 Dirk Nowitzki personal foul (Peja Stojakovic draws the foul) 94-97


^^as you can see, Chandlers tap out to CP3 resulted in CP3 getting an offensive rebound, not Chandler!

[QUOTE=Diesel J]They need to show a video of that play from the inner baseline camera view. IMO, Wallace never had full possession of that ball..he basically did a double tap before he stepped out towards Lebron and Lebron got control of it.[/QUOTE]
yea id like to see that.

from that view its too hard to tell, but it looks like it should of been wallaces board. im sure the baseline view would be closer and more conclusive.

[QUOTE=Mikaiel]I don't know, last time I checked, the guy who did the tapping out got credit. But I just watched that Cavs-Knicks game and Ben Wallace did that twice and Mo Williams and Wally got credit for the rebounds :confusedshrug:[/QUOTE]


See my from above that I just made. Solid proof..

[QUOTE=Prodigy]I strongly disagree. Any idiot will be able to tell you that a triple double highly transcends a 52-10-9 performance. It's not even close. Even Ricky Davis would be able to tell you that. Don't feign ignorance with us young man.[/QUOTE]

Ur stupid, it doesn't matter what stats u have, if u have 40 rebounds and lose it means nothing. I matters how u impact the game and obviously Kobe had a bigger impact, no one can stop him and they got destroyed. Bron Bron deffered to his teammates with the 10 assist because he knew he couldn't win by himself.

[QUOTE=Diesel J]See my from above that I just made. Solid proof..[/QUOTE]

Yeah that's weird. I'm pretty sure I've seen guys do it and get credit for the rebound ... Ben Wallace does that a lot.

I'm 100% sure it works that way for steals though. It's weird it doesn't for rebounds.

[QUOTE=amfirst]Ur stupid, it doesn't matter what stats u have, if u have 40 rebounds and lose it means nothing. I matters how u impact the game and obviously Kobe had a bigger impact, no one can stop him and they got destroyed. Bron Bron deffered to his teammates with the 10 assist because he knew he couldn't win by himself.[/QUOTE]
Lebron got 10 assists but his whole team inclding him got only 20 assists that game, meaning Lebron stagnated ball movement and ruined the team game to get his.

[QUOTE=amfirst]Ur stupid, it doesn't matter what stats u have, if u have 40 rebounds and lose it means nothing. I matters how u impact the game and obviously Kobe had a bigger impact, no one can stop him and they got destroyed. Bron Bron deffered to his teammates with the 10 assist because he knew he couldn't win by himself.[/QUOTE]
Steven A Smith is that you? God I am glad thet you don't represent the average IQ of the posters on ISH. Getting 60 points is great, but it is a once a year event. It has happened 5 times for Kobe in his career, MJ 5 times, Wilt over 15, and I am sure countless others. But a 50 point TD happens once a generation. The last one was in 75, 34 years ago. KAJ, You know how I said that Wilt had 15 + 60 pointers? Well he had two, two 50 poinnt TDs. And for the greatest statistical machine in history that means sometinhg. Also you point about Kobe not needing to rely on his team mates to carry his team to a win is rubish. He needed Gasol to get 30 points as well. Also LeBron was responsible for way more points in his teams win than Kobe was.

Point is that a 60 point game is not as, or even close to as special as a 50/10/10 game.

[QUOTE=Mikaiel]Yeah that's weird. I'm pretty sure I've seen guys do it and get credit for the rebound ... Ben Wallace does that a lot.
[/QUOTE]

The tappers never get credit for the rebounds from what I've seen because they technically don't have full possession of the ball/rebound. The league clearly robbed Lebron of a TD based on that play. From that camera view, Wallace does a double tap towards Lebron without ever having full possession of the ball.

[QUOTE=lilmarcgasol]Lebron got 10 assists but his whole team inclding him got only 20 assists that game, meaning Lebron stagnated ball movement and ruined the team game to get his.[/QUOTE][SIZE=5][B][U][COLOR="Red"]The Cavs average 20 Assists Per Game though :lol [/COLOR][/U][/B][/SIZE]

[URL="http://www.nba.com/cavaliers/stats/"]Link[/URL]. It's 20.3 if you wanna get technical. :confusedshrug:

Next excuse please.....

[QUOTE=Mdog1]Wilt over 15[/QUOTE]

32 to be exact.

[QUOTE=1~Gibson~1][SIZE=5][B][U][COLOR="Red"]The Cavs average 20 Assists Per Game though :lol [/COLOR][/U][/B][/SIZE]

[URL="http://www.nba.com/cavaliers/stats/"]Link[/URL]. It's 20.3 if you wanna get technical. :confusedshrug:

Next excuse please.....[/QUOTE]
yeah and do you know what that means? Lebron averaging 7 a game STILL stagnates ball movement.

[QUOTE=lilmarcgasol]yeah and do you know what that means? Lebron averaging 7 a game STILL stagnates ball movement.[/QUOTE]his 10 assists out of the cavs 20 makes his performance even better :confusedshrug:

[QUOTE=1~Gibson~1]his 10 assists out of the cavs 20 makes his performance even better :confusedshrug:[/QUOTE]
no it means he holds up ball movement from his teammates and stagnates the team, did you watch the game did you see how the goddamn crap Knicks were keeping up score for score with the Cavs with Lebron taking 33 shots, and then passing for half the assists and his whole combined team only getting 10

[QUOTE=lilmarcgasol]no it means he holds up ball movement from his teammates and stagnates the team, did you watch the game did you see how the goddamn crap Knicks were keeping up score for score with the Cavs with Lebron taking 33 shots, and then passing for half the assists and his whole combined team only getting 10[/QUOTE]

He usually doesn't play that way anymore though.

[QUOTE=lilmarcgasol]no it means he holds up ball movement from his teammates and stagnates the team, did you watch the game did you see how the goddamn crap Knicks were keeping up score for score with the Cavs with Lebron taking 33 shots, and then passing for half the assists and his whole combined team only getting 10[/QUOTE]So are you saying his 10assists werent impressive?

Why are yall still talking about which game was better?:oldlol:

50 point triple double is alot rarer than a 60 point game. It's not even debatable:confusedshrug:

[QUOTE=Mikaiel]32 to be exact.[/QUOTE]
I wasn't sure the exact number, but I thought it was only 17. 32 is extaordinary though.

:roll: :roll: :roll:

******gers for Kobe and Bron both just had their blood pressure spike