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[QUOTE=John Smith]He basically got the same exact thing Tyson Chandler got and you see how difficult it is to move that contract for the Hornets.[/QUOTE]
Two completely different players. Also, when Chandler was healthy the year before, he was seen as worth the contract. He was battling injuries this year. Furthermore, Bargnani is a much better offensive player and his defense is underrated here on ish...
[QUOTE=Faufner]This is a deal given based on potential value, that's it. In order to win, sometimes you have to take gambles and this is one that Colangelo believes will pay off. If Bargnani averages 20 and 7-8 this year, would he be worth this contract at 24 years old? Absolutely, possibly even more. You're telling me that if Bargnani was a free agent next year, at age 24, coming off a season of 20 and 7, that a team like the Bulls, for example, wouldn't be all over this guy?
Imagine Greg Oden when his rookie contract ends. Yeah he's struggled in his first year playing, and he won't reach his maximum potential by his fourth year (especially since he missed one full season). You're telling me it's NOT smart to try and get him locked up for 10-12 mill a season? It's all about potential value people. He has the potential to be worth more than that. And so does Bargnani.[/QUOTE]
Heh, exactly. I'd like to see people here play the stock market. The way to make money is to buy high, right? Nearly every great team has a guy who's getting underpaid to push them over the top and this is really the only way to get one cuz once a team has a great contract they always keep it. When's the last time a team traded a bargain contract? Those are harder to get then actual superstars and hence more valuable. You can just give a star max money like Orlando did to Shard and bam, you've got him. Finding the great manu contract guy is much, much harder. Teams are built around good contracts almost as much as star players.
[QUOTE=hawkfan]With Turkoglu and AB getting big money, it looks like Bosh is on his way out of town.[/QUOTE]Bosh is the wrong nationality for Toronto.
They don't want American players, it seems.
[QUOTE=indiefan23]19 and 9 is not 10 million worthy? Really? And Okur was a shooter who thrived off of a great point. Bargnani had 1.2 BPG last year and is not close to his prime. Okur is no where near the defensive presence Bargnani could be or is and has no where near as complete a game as Bargnani. Great shooter, but he's not a better shooter then Bargnani and only shot >40% for the first time last year. Bargnani did this last season. In march playing 33 minutes a game Bargnani had 20 points, 6 boards and shot 50% from the 3 point line. Has Okur ever had a month like that? I seriously doubt it. And again, he's only 23. They guy has not nearly played his best ball.[/QUOTE]
This whole paragraph right here tells me your really a Bargnani fan, and can't give an unbiased judgement of his talent.
"Has Okur ever had a month like that? I seriously doubt it." That line really made me :oldlol:. I mean it litterally took me 15 seconds to find this: ([url=http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/3547/splits;_ylt=AnSQ4uDHkz4PdXSgKZZbEc2kPKB4]Link[/url]).
That just sounds like a kid... "I bet'cha he couldn't do that... he's super betterer than him." :oldlol:
[QUOTE=beasted86]
That just sounds like a kid... "I bet'cha he couldn't do that... he's super betterer than him." :oldlol:[/QUOTE]
:lol
If he stays healthy (no worrying injuries so far) and improves even slightly, Bargnani is gonna be earning the money in this contract. Not worth 10mill next year, I agree with everyone who said 7 - 8.5mill. In the grand scheme of things tho, this contract will probably help the franchise out a lot.
[QUOTE=beasted86]This whole paragraph right here tells me your really a Bargnani fan, and can't give an unbiased judgement of his talent.
"Has Okur ever had a month like that? I seriously doubt it." That line really made me :oldlol:. I mean it litterally took me 15 seconds to find this: ([url=http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/3547/splits;_ylt=AnSQ4uDHkz4PdXSgKZZbEc2kPKB4]Link[/url]).
That just sounds like a kid... "I bet'cha he couldn't do that... he's super betterer than him." :oldlol:[/QUOTE]
Uh, well I'm not a huge fan... why can't that paragraph just be my unbias judgment? I think he's a good player who's got lots of potential that has not been scratched yet.
And menh, woe is me, I didn't look up the split for him. Its very different to play like that in your prime vs. well before it. Stating that Bargnani's ceiling is Okur when he's already able to play at Okur's level at 23 is what I'm going to call bias. Comparing a guy who can mix it up at center vs much of the league to another guy who's mostly just a shooter is pretty misguided as well.
If he had consistency with his offense he could be a real nice player for them.
[QUOTE=fatboy11]Bosh is the wrong nationality for Toronto.
They don't want American players, it seems.[/QUOTE]
I think its smart. They've had some issues keeping American players. Antonio Davis was concerned about the educational system in Canada, which is pretty silly, but u know, some players are concerned. TO is pretty ideal for any euro ballers so why not market to people who would want to stay?
HAHAHAHA. Toronto further ruining their cap.
[QUOTE=indiefan23]Uh, well I'm not a huge fan... why can't that paragraph just be my unbias judgment? I think he's a good player who's got lots of potential that has not been scratched yet.
And menh, woe is me, I didn't look up the split for him. Its very different to play like that in your prime vs. well before it. Stating that Bargnani's ceiling is Okur when he's already able to play at Okur's level at 23 is what I'm going to call bias. Comparing a guy who can mix it up at center vs much of the league to another guy who's mostly just a shooter is pretty misguided as well.[/QUOTE]
Well I just think it's pretty ridiculous to base someones career off of what they could only do for 2.5 months, and disregard what they did the previous 2.5 seasons.
Yes, Bargnani has potential... but the homers adamately arguing that Bargnani is "already" worth $10M by looking at the complete body of work in his career so far is just lame.
There's a reason there is a general consensus in this thread that $8M or lower would have been a more reasonable figure.
[QUOTE=beasted86]Well I just think it's pretty ridiculous to base someones career off of what they could only do for 2.5 months, and disregard what they did the previous 2.5 seasons.
Yes, Bargnani has potential... but the homers adamately arguing that Bargnani is "already" worth $10M by looking at the complete body of work in his career so far is just lame.
There's a reason there is a general consensus in this thread that $8M or lower would have been a more reasonable figure.[/QUOTE]
You weren't gonna get him for less than 8 million. The PA wouldn't allow it. #1 overall pic, potential-laden center showing a long stretch where he earns less than what he got the year before? It ain't gonna happen. 10 million is fair for both sides...
[QUOTE=beasted86]Well I just think it's pretty ridiculous to base someones career off of what they could only do for 2.5 months, and disregard what they did the previous 2.5 seasons.
Yes, Bargnani has potential... but the homers adamately arguing that Bargnani is "already" worth $10M by looking at the complete body of work in his career so far is just lame.
There's a reason there is a general consensus in this thread that $8M or lower would have been a more reasonable figure.[/QUOTE]
Somewhat, Bargnani is not guaranteed, but from what I've always seen he had a totally decent rookie year and then got buried by a coach who was trying to win right now to keep his job and chose that over giving him the time to develop in games. Once they fired Mitchell he picked up 'right' where he left off after his rookie year and played even better.
I don't think anyone is arguing that based on his body of work 'now' he's worth 10 million. 7 or 8, sure. What is reasonable though is anticipating that next season he's going to be featured in the offense, get way more minutes, and have a breakout season. A player breaking out in their 3'rd or 4'th season is pretty typical honestly.
So you have to consider that they gave him an extension. If he continues his season finish and say, goes for 20/7/1.5 bpg with maybe 2-3 dimes (thats a low for everything but points) and shoots 42% (pretty low too IMHO) Bargnani is going to be worth 'much' more then 10 million. He'll be 24 and look like he's finally adjusted to the NBA game like Dirk did after a couple years in Dallas.
Based on that potential his contract would easily be more then 10 million/year. Easily. Realizing that potential, or if even next season he goes off for a serious improvement with 20/10/2, at age 24 resigning him starts to approach max money deals. Could he be a contract year retiree? Yep, its possible, but to be fair its a what if that he gives up after getting paid as much as he continues to improve.
If he makes another leap after signing this contract TO will look positively brilliant and get great value on him. If he doesn't become that high paid type player after 3 years, 10 million a year is not so difficult to move to a team looking to dump salary. They can buy him out for 15 million and clear cap space. Even at 10 million and if Bargnani becomes just a good shooter like Okur, its overpaying, but 10 million to a team looking for a little extra size/shooting as a piece to their playoff run is not unforseeable at all. The Raps just traded Jermaine O'Neal's corpse and max deal to Miami for Marion and his expiring contract. There's no reason an only competent Bargnani would not be able to be moved for 10 million.
Lastly, you've got to consider one other factor. Say Bargnani in 5 years is worth lots more. And he can play anywhere and is making a decision. Like Bosh is making next summer. It 'will' count in Bargnani's decesion when they say "yea, you can go to Indiana, but don't forget that this organization took you first in the draft, fired the coach when people doubted you and then overpaid you in a 5 year extension after only a few months of improved numbers. You can sign where you want, its your decision, but you already live here and we are loyal to you." Stuff like that counts for loads. Its why Dallas lost Nash. Why the Clips lost Brand. Why the Suns might actually keep Nash. And why Lebron might not go to NY. Why Wade only wants a team in contention.
Heh, being a GM is a tricky job. There are so many facets. I just find it all interesting.
[QUOTE=fatboy11]Bosh is the wrong nationality for Toronto.
They don't want American players, it seems.[/QUOTE]
As we draft an American out of Compton, California with our 9th overall pick.
This contract will turn out to be a bargain, at worst it's a mediocre deal. If Bargnani averages 19 points, 7 rebounds on solid shooting and continues his development on the defensive side of the ball, he would have wanted a maximum contract, this may seem like overpaying, but given long term progression, it'll likely turn out to be a bargain.
Very nicely said indiefan23 :applause: