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[QUOTE=guy]I'm guessing you would have to look really really hard to get this information if its even available. So for anyone to go through that crazy amount of effort clearly shows an agenda.[/QUOTE]
I didn't relize they had those gamelogs for who took the last 3 shots back in 86. I want to see what website this is from. Which he isn't answering.
[QUOTE=Floppy]It's actually funny how short that list. I thought it'd be way longer.
Thanks for increasing my appreciation for the GOAT even more.
repped
:oldlol:[/QUOTE]
It is nowhere near complete. I am obviously not going to find all his anti-clutch moments within an hour of starting this thread. The list will have at least 100+ entries in the end (probably closer to 200 I'd say), which is a lot. All this thread is going to show is to stop holding current stars to an unrealistic standard in the clutch just because they can be scrutinized more easily due to the internet age. If Jordan had these moments in 15-20% of all games he played (which is a crazy amount of anti-clutch moments), then it should put all this anti-clutch nonsense in proper context.
[QUOTE=juju151111]I didn't relize they had those gamelogs for who took the last 3 shots back in 86. I want to see what website this is from. Which he isn't answering.[/QUOTE]
Well I was responding with the assumption that he isn't lying, which I think is probably not a good assumption to make.
[QUOTE=Fatal9]It is nowhere near complete. I am obviously not going to find all his anti-clutch moments within an hour of starting this thread. The list will have at least 100+ entries in the end (probably closer to 200 I'd say), which is a lot. All this thread is going to show is to stop holding current stars to an unrealistic standard in the clutch just because they can be scrutinized more easily due to the internet age. If Jordan had these moments in 15-20% of all games he played (which is a crazy amount of anti-clutch moments), then it should put all this anti-clutch nonsense in proper context.[/QUOTE]
Wow your pathetic, of course MJ had some bad moments no one is denying it. Why don't you show us your beloved Kobe's anti clutch moments, he shoots below 30% on game winning attempts, while MJ shot nearly 50% on his gamewinning attempts.
[QUOTE=DuMa]he admits it himself on a famous commercial. so why act like this is something new or you uncovered some new secret? quite sad.[/QUOTE]
[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=45mMioJ5szc[/url]
[QUOTE=Fatal9][B]1998 ECF vs. Pacers, Game 4:[/B] Jordan misses game winning three pointer despite getting a clean look.
[/QUOTE]
Also, :oldlol: at this being unclutch. There were 7 tenths of a second left on the shot clock and when Jordan got the ball, he had to change his shot in mid air and he almost banked it in. Like it, literally spinned out. But, somehow that's unclutch right. Jordan choked on the spot and under pressure, right?
Never talk about Jordan on ISH, unless it's about him being perfect. Everyone else is fair game.
Imagine if we made a a clutch log :eek:
There wouldn't be a thread big enough.
"I've missed more than 9000 shots in my career. I've lost almost 300 games. 26 times, I've been trusted to take the game winning shot and missed. I've failed over and over and over again in my life. And that is why I succeed."
The fact that he has 0 links makes me suspect he is making up a majority of these for the sake of his agenda.
WTB link.
I've got another strong addition to the anti-clutch log for Jordan:
[B]Dec 14, 1984 vs. Nets[/B], Jordan misses potential game tying jumper with 28 seconds left. Nets go on to win 111-109.
[B]Oct 27, 1984 vs. Bucks[/B], Jordan misses potential game tying jumper at the end of regulation. Bucks rebound his miss and time expires. Bulls lose 108-106.
[B]
Mar 26, 1987 vs. Nets[/B]: Jordan misses 2 consecutive FTs near with one minute left (as the Nets are up 107-103) and misses a potential game tying jumper at the buzzer. Bulls lose 109-107.
[B]
Nov 3, 1990 vs. Bullets[/B]: With 35 seconds left, Jordan misses a short jumper. Then on the ensuing possession he gets his layup blocked at the basket by Horace Grant's brother (who played for the Bullets). Bulls lose 103-102.
[B]Nov 21 vs. Suns, 1990[/B]: Misses his last 5 shots in the fourth. Suns end up winning at the buzzer, 109-107.
[B]
Dec 17 1991 vs. Lakers:[/B] Bulls trying to come back in the 4th quarter, however Jordan made 0 shots in the fourth quarter and missed his last 10 shots. The most notable miss is him blowing a dunk on an open fast break that would have cut the Laker lead to 6. This and Jordan's poor fourth quarter performance ruined any chance of a comeback.
[B]
Game 1 vs. Knicks 1993: [/B]Jordan goes just 2 for his last 12 shot. Knicks pull away as Jordan was a no show in the second half, and was scoreless for several key stretches in the second half.
[B]
Mar 11, 1993 vs. Heat: [/B]Jordan misses his last 4 shots and misses a simple floater with 2 seconds left which would have tied the game. Bulls lose 97-95.
[B]
Oct 30, 2001 vs. Knicks: [/B]Misses potential game tying three pointer with 18 seconds left and commits two costly turnovers before this shot. Wizards lose 93-91.
[B]
Apr 12 vs. Hawks, 2003:[/B] misses potential gamewinner at buzzer. Wizards lose 101-100.
[QUOTE=Fatal9]All this thread is going to show is to stop holding current stars to an unrealistic standard in the clutch just because they can be scrutinized more easily due to the internet age. [/QUOTE]
And exactly what "current stars" are you talking about here? LeBron? That's funny, because I remember going on game threads during the NBA Playoffs, just to see a poster named "Fatal" desperately and hilariously trying to prove to ISH how unclutch LeBron is. I also remember a poster named "Fatal" who entirely diminishes Wade's finals performance, due to bad calls....I assume you don't have great affection for him either? Or anyone not named Kobe Bryant? So who is this thread really about?
I think you really need to move on guy, it's so flipping annoying how every single god dam thread you make is indirectly related to Kobe in some way....you seeriously need to cut the crap my friend. Many people already have him in their top 10, that should be good enough for you.
I think I'll run out of characters in my OP. Already have 26 entries. Wow.
Again, no one is saying Jordan wasn't clutch. IMO he was at worst the second clutchest player ever (behind Bird who had insane game 7 performances), but still I'd give Jordan the edge. This is partly because I wanted to research a bit on this topic and partly because it's annoying seeing 82games.com tracking every little miss, while former players never underwent that type of scrutiny.
[quote=Fatal9]I think I'll run out of characters in my OP. Already have 26 entries. Wow.
Again, no one is saying Jordan wasn't clutch. IMO he was at worst the second clutchest player ever (behind Bird who had insane game 7 performances), but still I'd give Jordan the edge. This is partly because I wanted to research a bit on this topic and partly because it's annoying seeing 82games.com tracking every little miss, while former players never underwent that type of scrutiny.[/quote]
Why should anyone trust you are doing this with credibility.
You have a piss poor reputation in conjunction to this topic and you are regarded as a troll.
Post video evidence or gtfo imo.
Go check the articles from those dates morons. And then check if I am lying. :oldlol: at thinking I am going to put tapes up of all this because you can't use google. Only posted like 25 entries and people are shocked. Amazing...is this the type of reputation MJ has built up?
[quote=Fatal9]Go check the articles from those dates morons. And then check if I am lying. :oldlol: at thinking I am going to put tapes up of all this because you can't use google.[/quote]
Link the articles.
[QUOTE=Godfather]Link the articles.[/QUOTE]
Find them yourself. What am I your personal internet assistant? :confusedshrug:
[QUOTE=Fatal9]Go check the articles from those dates morons. And then check if I am lying. :oldlol: at thinking I am going to put tapes up of all this because you can't use google. Only posted like 25 entries and people are shocked. Amazing...is this the type of reputation MJ has built up?[/QUOTE]
Anyone who writes articles, whether in journalism or scientific articles is expected to site their facts or else they're ridiculed and rejected by peers and the article never becomes published or taken with any respect. It's the duty of the author to provide citations;)
[QUOTE=Fatal9]Go check the articles from those dates morons. And then check if I am lying. :oldlol: at thinking I am going to put tapes up of all this because you can't use google. Only posted like 25 entries and people are shocked. Amazing...is this the type of reputation MJ has built up?[/QUOTE]
No one's shocked, idiot....people want proof because you are a proven troll who constantly manipulates data in order to get points across. And I'm sure Jordan did have A LOT of unclutch moments...after all I remember watching a lot of Bulls games.
[QUOTE=Fatal9]I think I'll run out of characters in my OP. Already have 26 entries. Wow.
Again, no one is saying Jordan wasn't clutch. IMO he was at worst the second clutchest player ever (behind Bird who had insane game 7 performances), but still I'd give Jordan the edge. This is partly because I wanted to research a bit on this topic and partly because it's annoying seeing 82games.com tracking every little miss, while former players never underwent that type of scrutiny.[/QUOTE]
where is your bird, magic or pippen anti-clutch logs??? y is all your negativity focused on jordan?
y everytime u give jordan an accolade like greatest finals performance ever, there is always a comment downplaying it like, kareem would be number one but his team lost? or i think he is the clutchest player ever but may be 2nd to bird.
[QUOTE=nnn123]No one's shocked, idiot....people want proof because you are a proven troll who constantly manipulates data in order to get points across. And I'm sure Jordan did have A LOT of unclutch moments...after all I remember watching a lot of Bulls games.[/QUOTE]
Yea apparently a couple of times I didn't round someone's 5.45 assists to 6. Total data manipulation :rolleyes:
:oldlol: at these idiots. Why am I even quoting them? Check the f*cking internet to confirm. There is an ocean of information out there. You can confirm this for yourself, just don't expect me to do it for you because I really don't care.
why are people asking him to get off kobe's nuts but when he gives credit to someone u guys brush it off and claim its an act... whats the point in doing so if ur not gonna believe him anyways if he does agree with u
:roll:
This clown has created a "log" defaming a player without a single ****ing link...what a joke.
WoW! What about the gold eggs? By the way the Jordan junkies talked, he crapped gold eggs too!
[QUOTE=Fatal9]Yea apparently a couple of times I didn't round someone's 5.45 assists to 6. Total data manipulation :rolleyes:
:oldlol: at these idiots. Why am I even quoting them? Check the f*cking internet to confirm. There is an ocean of information out there. You can confirm this for yourself, just don't expect me to do it for you because I really don't care.[/QUOTE]
Link us, we are "lazy"..
The vast majority of Bulls games were either won or lost by his hands during that era... So to look for all his misses rather than looking at his supreme success rate would be ridiculous.
[QUOTE=Fatal9]Yea apparently a couple of times I didn't round someone's 5.45 assists to 6. Total data manipulation :rolleyes:
:oldlol: at these idiots. Why am I even quoting them? Check the f*cking internet to confirm. There is an ocean of information out there. You can confirm this for yourself, just don't expect me to do it for you because I really don't care.[/QUOTE]
LMAO if you think I'm talking about 'improper rounding' right now....even though you are guilty of that lol
[QUOTE=nnn123]LMAO if you think I'm talking about 'improper rounding' right now....even though you are guilty of that lol[/QUOTE]
Dude's totally worked, doesn't even provide evidence.... :oldlol:
I have a New York Times subscription because I get that delivered to my house. Do you? That's what I thought. Buy yourself some games, watch them, or better yet buy yourself a subscription to a reputable newspaper to confirm this.
:oldlol: at the Jordan fans getting angry, despite me repeatedly insisting that despite all this he is still the clutchest player to ever play the game. The point of the thread isn't to say Jordan is unclutch, because he is not, and to even say anything along those lines is ridiculous.
^^^ So what is the point... Did you think people believed he had 100% accuracy on game winning shots? Nobody does, not even those with the most clutch reputations. But there's no denying that he made a whole hell of a lot of them and they were memorable.
[QUOTE=Fatal9]I have a New York Times subscription because I get that delivered to my house. Do you? That's what I thought. Buy yourself some games, watch them, or better yet buy yourself a subscription to a reputable newspaper to confirm this.
:oldlol: at the Jordan fans getting angry, despite me repeatedly insisting that despite all this he is still the clutchest player to ever play the game. The point of the thread isn't to say Jordan is unclutch, because he is not, and to even say anything along those lines is ridiculous.[/QUOTE]
In other words you don't have any "real" quotes or links to back these claims up. I thought google was the answer? HELP ME!!!
[QUOTE=Fatal9]Yea apparently a couple of times I didn't round someone's 5.45 assists to 6. Total data manipulation :rolleyes:
:oldlol: at these idiots. Why am I even quoting them? Check the f*cking internet to confirm. There is an ocean of information out there. You can confirm this for yourself, just don't expect me to do it for you [B]because I really don't care[/B].[/QUOTE]
Sure you don't. That's why you bother looking up all this information and recording it right? And yet for some reason you refuse to cite...Hmm...could it be because some of those shots were practically impossible to make and completely unrelated to being unclutch?
Fatal I'm not saying that you're making all this up....I certainly do believe Jordan missed many game winners. It's just that in the past you have been guilty of exaggerating/misleading to prove a point, so you might be doing the same here....perhaps some of these turnovers, shots, etc. weren't really Jordan's fault. That's why some sort of link would be appreciated, I'm not saying you're lying here.
[QUOTE=bokes15]^^^ So what is the point... Did you think people believed he had 100% accuracy on game winning shots? Nobody does, not even those with the most clutch reputations. But there's no denying that he made a whole hell of a lot of them and they were memorable.[/QUOTE]
Nah, there used to anti-clutch Kobe logs here all the time. The point is partly interest because you never hear of these games ever (nor does the Jordan-nation on youtube upload many of these). And partly to catalog and show Jordan failed in the clutch for a big % of the games he played in, which to my knowledge no one has ever really done. So when you get posters yapping about Kobe, Wade or Lebron (I am guilty of doing this sometimes too), you gotta remember Jordan failed hundreds of times too, which people seem to forget for some reason.
[QUOTE=nnn123]Fatal I'm not saying that you're making all this up....I certainly do believe Jordan missed many game winners. It's just that in the past you have been guilty of exaggerating/misleading to prove a point, so you might be doing the same here....perhaps some of these turnovers, shots, etc. weren't really Jordan's fault. That's why some sort of link would be appreciated, I'm not saying you're lying here.[/QUOTE]
some of these plays or shots are definitely not actually unclutch.
is missing a fadaway three, off one foot, with .8 secs from 29 feet away unclutch?? some of these shots need to be put into perspective if u are really so interested in making an accurate log. which of course he is not.
[QUOTE=goldgrill4me]some of these plays or shots are definitely not actually unclutch.
is missing a fadaway three, off one foot, with .8 secs from 29 feet away unclutch?? some of these shots need to be put into perspective if u are really so interested in making an accurate log. which of course he is not.[/QUOTE]
Kobe would have hit that shot so it's definitely anti-clutch.
[QUOTE=Cyclone112]Kobe would have hit that shot so it's definitely anti-clutch.[/QUOTE]
It's counted in his "anti-clutch" stats isn't it? If Lebron misses the shot in game 2, it would have counted towards his "anti-clutch" stats too, right? But in Jordan's case? It was just a tough shot to make :confusedshrug:
You'll note I didn't include the missed shot vs. Jazz but against the Pacers he got a decent look.
[QUOTE=Fatal9]Nah, there used to anti-clutch Kobe logs here all the time. The point is partly interest because you never hear of these games ever (nor does the Jordan-nation on youtube upload many of these). And partly to catalog and show Jordan failed in the clutch for a big % of the games he played in, which to my knowledge no one has ever really done. So when you get posters yapping about Kobe, Wade or Lebron (I am guilty of doing this sometimes too), you gotta remember Jordan failed hundreds of times too, which people seem to forget for some reason.[/QUOTE]
his accuracy on gw shots is 50 % so obviously he missed half the time moron. no one needs your biased bogus clutch log. u admittedly havent seen most of the games u are using. therefore u dont even know circumstances as to whether these shots are really unclutch or situations where only an extremely low % of these types of shots should be made.
[QUOTE=Fatal9]It's counted in his "anti-clutch" stats isn't it? If Lebron misses the shot in game 2, it would have counted towards his "anti-clutch" stats too, right? But in Jordan's case? It was just a tough shot to make :confusedshrug:
You'll note I didn't include the missed shot vs. Jazz but against the Pacers he got a decent look.[/QUOTE]
No, ridiculously hard shots that have a very minimal chance of going in in the first place should not mean someone is "anti" clutch. Is heaving up a half court shot at the buzzer and missing also anti clutch?
[QUOTE=Fatal9]It's counted in his "anti-clutch" stats isn't it? If Lebron misses the shot in game 2, it would have counted towards his "anti-clutch" stats too, right? But in Jordan's case? It was just a tough shot to make :confusedshrug:
You'll note I didn't include the missed shot vs. Jazz but against the Pacers he got a decent look.[/QUOTE]
u commented on it saying it was a good contribution to your log. u probably didnt read that game recap yet as to why u didnt add it personally. anytime u have to force a shot with .7 secs is it really unclutch if u miss?? those types of shots are easy to defend against.
these shots are counted for jordan in his 50% field goal percentage on game winning shots.
y u commenting on lebrons 3 that u said was against the poorest possible defense??? now it was a difficult shot? make up your mind clown.:oldlol: :oldlol: