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[b]If Dirk and NAsh are so great. Than why no finals apperances.[/b]
Becuase they are too similar.. they are both essentially guards -- mainly perimeter players. Their games didn't compliment each other as much as they could have. They were redundant. They both need a low post presence to be their best. But I do think the the MAVS would be better if Nash was sitll on the team. They might have won it last season if that was the case. But they would also still be underrated as well. Both of them would have lost credit to the other.
[b]Im sure if you put Tim Duncan and Kobe Bryant or Lebron or Wade on the same team and surround them with the talent they have they would have a couple championships.[/b]
Those are more complimentary players. Put Dirk with Duncan and they would look better than Wade and Duncan or Kobe and Duncan.. because Dirk is BETTER than Wade and Kobe.. and more unselfish. We have never seen how good Dirk can be because he has never had a truly complimentary player. And/Or a decent bigman.
[b]Why couldnt these great players get it done???? You said this guy is better than Bird, and Nash is the best pg in the league and you give them former all stars in their prime and they cant eeven get to the finals[/b]
The allstars that were on the Mavs were also redundant. More perimeter scorers.
The problem happened when the Mavs were being built. They didn't build the inside of the team properly.. then they were too good to get bigmen through the draft to put next to Dirk.. and because Dirk is so underrated bigmen free agents like Malone and Zo won't go to the Mavs. So they have no way to get the players the Mavs truly need.
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Even before I read this I had the sense that DWade was the kind of player to let his early success go to his head. I still believe that to be the case.
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Wade is a freaking joke. A whole new season is starting and the one that won the ship still isnt over it. Thats pretty sad. Wade is just another benefit of shaq. I dont see how anybody doesnt see that because its one of the most obvious things ever. And BTW why does everyone assume that you are racist if u think dirk is 5 or 6. I mean isnt that close enough? The difference between 5 and 1 isnt the color of someone's skin. You are racist for accusing someone of being racist. Racist bastards!!!!
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[QUOTE]Those ar emore complimentary players. Put Dirk with Duncna and they would look bett6er than Wade and Duncan or Kobe and Duncan.. because [B]Dirk is BETTER than Wade and Kobe[/B].. and more unselfish. We have never seen how good Dirk cna be bcause he has never had a truly complimentary player. And/Or a decent bigman.[/QUOTE]
keep thinking that. If Dirk was as great as you beleive, you wouldnt have to make the excuse of who compliments him...
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TIM DUNCAN IS THE BEST PLAYER IN THE LEAGUE. Then kobe then dirk then lebron then wade.
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[QUOTE]Why 5 or 6? Why not numbe rone? Because he's white? He can only be 5 or 6? Who is better than him? some young players that have never done anything on their own?[/QUOTE]
I know your seriously not trying to make a race thing...:roll:
[QUOTE]Like Kobe, Wade and LeBron play any defense? At least Dirk rebounds.. something Wade, Kobe and LeBron don't do.[/QUOTE]
Mf'er is 7' ft power forward. He supposed to rebound, dummy. And even then Kobe, Wade, and Bron avg 5+ boards career wise from swingman/guard posistion which is damn good.
And Kobe, Wade, Bron ALL DEFEND(especially Kobe) at their respective posistions a HUNDRED times better than Dirk. Undebatable too.
[QUOTE]Kobe played on far far far more stacked teams than Dirk as Did Wade.. even LeBron has a great great team around him. Wade had Sha and Zo. and Walker.. just ridiculous.[/QUOTE]
Son said Antoine Walker...:roll:
Dirk played with the [B]great[/B] Antoine Walker too, along with Antawn Jamison, and the two time MVP in Steve Nash and didn't win ****. Explain that for me will ya??...:confusedshrug:
[QUOTE]
He only expanded it enough to beat the Spurs.. Dirk doesn't need to expand his game.. his teamamtes do.. they can't do anyhting.. they can't shoot.. can't defend.. his team stinks.[/QUOTE]
That why Josh Howard and Jason Terry shoot the three at 40% clip right?
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[QUOTE=hotsizzle]keep thinking that. If Dirk was as great as you beleive, you wouldnt have to make the excuse of who compliments him...[/QUOTE]
And if Kobe didn't play with Shaq he probably wouldn't be in the league today... he probaly would have been kicked out of it -- just like his father.
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[QUOTE=Hawker]TIM DUNCAN IS THE BEST PLAYER IN THE LEAGUE. Then kobe then dirk then lebron then wade.[/QUOTE]
You claim Wade is the fifth best player in the league, yet in your last post, you said "Wade is a freaking joke."
Explain. Please, enlighten me.
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[QUOTE=FabCasablancas]And if Kobe didn't play with Shaq he probably wouldn't be in the league today... he probaly would have been kicked out of it -- just like his father.[/QUOTE]
:confused: :stupid: :wtf:
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[QUOTE=FabCasablancas]And if Kobe didn't play with Shaq he probably wouldn't be in the league today... he probaly would have been kicked out of it -- just like his father.[/QUOTE]
WOW..did you just seriously say that???? omfg
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[QUOTE]I am tlaking aobut for the playoff run in 2002-2003. When the MAvs went to the WCF.. everyone unanimoulsy said Van Exel was the MVP.. which is just exactly as stupid as saying Wade is MVP with Shaq on his team.[/QUOTE]
"Everyone unanimoulsy"? Its things like that that make it hard to take so mny Dirk fans serious. Something about liking that man creates a total seperation from reality it seems. If you honestly think everyone believed NVE was the Mavs MVP you and I existed in totally different worlds for a while there. because I know ive only missed 2 nationally shown playoff games since 86 none of them in 2003. And yet still I missed that it seems. See what I remember is Dirk getting like 40/15 one game and seeing people here claim he might be as good as or better than Duncan. Not the majority. Not everyone. Im able to seperate a small minority from the entirety of the sports world you see. But if only for those select few...its just not true that everyone thought nick was the MVP.
This is just like you claiming nobody anywhere picked the Mavs to make the finals when there were prediction topics all over the place with them making it. you like to paint as bad a picture as possible to make dirk look like either god saving the garbage that is his team or like people think hes John Koncak.
Dirk did not get on that many peoples MVP ballot then a week later be considered less valuable than Nick Vanexel by the entirety of humanity.
It simply did not happen. Nick got some love. he took over some games. But Dirk was almost always considered the teams best player and in rare cases he wasnt it was Finley or Nash. nick may have gotten some announcer hyped when he made a big 3 in the playoffs but that doesnt mean fans in general thought a 25/10 all star all NBA player was somehow inferior to his teams streak shooting backup point guard after a few big games.
[QUOTE]That's not what the media would have said. The media would have unanimously said KG was better than Dirk.. KG has an MVP and what has he done to deserve it? Statpad? That's aobut it. [/QUOTE]
If Dirk has a 24/14/6/2/1.5 season this year on a 58 win team that wasnt even healthy and didnt win MVP you would never let it go.
[QUOTE]Dirk truly deserved MVP the past 2 seasons and didn't get it. But now finally after leading his team to the Finals he might get some respect.. but there are still people who would say KG is better. Yet if KG just led a team to the Finals NO one would be saying Dirk was better. It's pretty simple to udnerstand..[/QUOTE]
You and many like you would say Dirk is better if KG puts up 40/25 this season win 77 games and sweeps the playoffs. him winning 2 more games in the 04 playoffs and being in the finals wouldnt be the difference between a near 50/50 split and a 100% agreement in him being better than Dirk.
[QUOTE]The point remains though.. that Dirk and Nash were both incredibly underrated because of their race.. and STILL are. You think that's just going to go away? And it took very very very special circumstances for Nash to get the credit he did for the Suns.Nahs also has an advantage over Dirk in that his game is much more flashy and conventional than Dirk's.[/QUOTE]
His race? Who do you think runs the NBA? who do you think votes for MVP and all these awards? Who do you think the majority online here is? White people mostly(asians a close second here). The race thing goes both ways. If you really think a lot of fans dont love Nash because hes similar to them youre just blind to reality. Sure black people are also more likely to look up to people more similar to them. But fact is white people run the NBA and white people do most of the award voting and if only by sheer numbers are most of the fans. Maybe not by percentage of each race who likes the NBA. But by numbers they are.
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[QUOTE]You claim Wade is the fifth best player in the league, yet in your last post, you said "Wade is a freaking joke."
Explain. Please, enlighten me.[/QUOTE]
Just how he acts sometimes. The winner still isnt over the Finals.
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[QUOTE=BFRESH44]I know your seriously not trying to make a race thing...:roll:
Mf'er is 7' ft power forward. He supposed to rebound, dummy. And even then Kobe, Wade, and Bron avg 5+ boards career wise from swingman/guard posistion which is damn good.
And Kobe, Wade, Bron ALL DEFEND(especially Kobe) at their respective posistions a HUNDRED times better than Dirk. Undebatable too.
Son said Antoine Walker...:roll:
Dirk played with the [B]great[/B] Antoine Walker too, along with Antawn Jamison, and the two time MVP in Steve Nash and didn't win ****. Explain that for me will ya??...:confusedshrug:
That why Josh Howard and Jason Terry shoot the three at 40% clip right?[/QUOTE]
Fab=Owned.
One thing that people forget, he also played with Finley who was simply a MONSTER back then, but yeah having a top SG and a future two time MVP along with a great clutch shooter (Nick) is a garbage team, poor Dirk.
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[IMG]http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y162/curiousg11/wade_champ.jpg[/IMG]
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who the heck is that old chick gtfo
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[QUOTE=Hawker]Just how he acts sometimes. The winner still isnt over the Finals.[/QUOTE]
Mavs fans and Kobe lovers still arent over the Finals.
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[QUOTE=joewait]Dirk's better than Bird, in an absolute sense already, Kobe is better than Jordan[/QUOTE]
joewait one god damn minute. did i read that right?
:wtf:
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[QUOTE=Hawker]TIM DUNCAN IS THE BEST PLAYER IN THE LEAGUE. Then kobe then dirk then lebron then wade.[/QUOTE]
I can agree with all except Dirk.
In fact i would put KG, Elton Brand,TMAC above Dirk.
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[QUOTE]Mavs fans and Kobe lovers still arent over the Finals.[/QUOTE]
Name some mavs fans for me cus i dont kno any but anyways thats acceptable for fans. It isnt acceptable for the players. When the loser isnt over it thats expected but when the WINNER isnt over it thats even more sad.
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[QUOTE=Hawker]Name some mavs fans for me cus i dont kno any but anyways thats acceptable for fans. It isnt acceptable for the players. When the loser isnt over it thats expected but when the WINNER isnt over it thats even more sad.[/QUOTE]
You get over the loss. You dont get over the win.
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[QUOTE]You get over the loss. You dont get over the win.[/QUOTE]
What do u mean?
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[QUOTE=Hawker]What do u mean?[/QUOTE]
Hey i won, now i need to get over it.
Hey i lost, now i need to get over it.
Which one makes sense. It aint that hard.
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[QUOTE=Hawker]Name some mavs fans for me cus i dont kno any but anyways thats acceptable for fans. It isnt acceptable for the players. When the loser isnt over it thats expected but when the WINNER isnt over it thats even more sad.[/QUOTE]
You dont know any? You're one of them, you turd. TMOGE is on the same boat, but he's not a piece of turd. The NBA champ gets to say whatever the fcuk he wants and the loser gets to sulk in his defeat. Thats what you're entitled to after winning the title.
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I am over it man. What i mean is that wade shouldnt even care what dirk says and just dismiss the comment.
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[b]I know your seriously not trying to make a race thing... IF you are your an idiot.[/b]
Why am I an idiot? Who has EVER said Dirk is the best player in the league? for people to say Dirk is the 5th best player in the league he has to be the actual best player in the league. That's how it works. If Dirk was actually the 5th best playe rin the league people would say he isn't in the top ten. Dirm is ALWAYS going to be underrated. That's just the way it is. You look at Dikr's stats over the past few years and NO has been as good as him as long as him. That's a fact. he has been the true MVP the past few seasons.. yet he's only the 5th or 6th best player? If Dirk was black there would be no debate.
[b]Mf'er is 7' ft power forward. He supposed to rebound, dummy.[/b]
Dummy? So you are saying guys liek Kobe, Wade and Lebron get somekind of pass because they are short? Because Dikr is 7 feet that's an unfair advantage? This is basketball nimrod.. yeah he's suppsoed to rebound.. because he's 7 feet! That's lie saying Shaq's post dominance doesn't count because he's 7 feet and 4 hundred pounds.. it's BECAUSE Dirk is 7 feet that he is better than these guys! I sware to god.. people are so assbackwards..
[b]And even then Kobe, Wade, and Bron avg 5+ boards career wise from swingman/guard posistion which is damn good.[/b]
Doesn't matter.. they still can't compete with a 7 footer.. that's the point!
[b]And Kobe, Wade, Bron ALL DEFEND(especially Kobe) at there respective posistions a HUNDRED times better than Dirk. Undebatable[/b]
BS.. this is where the race comes in.. you just assume this because of Dirk's race. NONE of these guys plays D. Kobe doesn't even cross half court half the time.. yet he is said to be one of the best defenders in the league. Someone at 82 games.com watched Kobe play D for a game.. and documented it.. he was atrocious. And it's like that all the time. LeBron and Wade are probably even worse.
[b]Son said Antoine Walker... [/b]
Pat Riley signed Walker.. so did Don Nelson.. we would probably still have Walker if we didn't have Dirk.. the Heat don't have another PF so Walker fits right in. When Wlake ris on he is a big game player. He helped them win that championshiop. There is no doubt.
[b]Dirk played with that great Antoine Walker, along with Antawn Jamison, and the two time MVP in Steve Nash and didn't win ****. Explain that for me wil ya??... [/b]
Because our team was just salpped togehter. we didn't have a cente rlike Shaq and Zo.. we had Walker Dirk and Twan all trying to play the same psoition. We had tons of redundant players. The Heat are far more balanced.. they have 2 hall of fame centers to our zero centers. It's comical that I even have to explain this..
[b]That why Josh Howard and Jason Terry shoot the three at 40% clip right?[/b]
That's why Terry went 2 of 11 from 3 point range while Dirk had 2 Heat defenders glued to his butt. Your stats are a joke..
The Mavs were the worst 3 pooint shooting team in the playoffs. Despite all the doubles Dirk demaneded.. they should have been one of the best if they had any decent shooters. Avery wouldn't even use a greta shooter he had -- Dirk. Which is a whole nother problem..
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[QUOTE=Hawker]I am over it man. What i mean is that wade shouldnt even care what dirk says and just dismiss the comment.[/QUOTE]
Wade gets to talk sh!t about Dirk until the day Dirk takes the title from him (which aint gonna happen anytime soon).
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[QUOTE=joewait]It's tough arguing with people who seemingly have no education.[/QUOTE]
yup :cheers:
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[b]One thing that people forget, he also played with Finley who was simply a MONSTER back then,[/b]
That clinches it.. you ahve to be TMOGE.. only Tmac thinks Finley is anything other than crap.
The ONLY reason the Mavs beat the Spurs was becaus eof Finley's choking a$$.
[b]but yeah having a top SG and a future two time MVP along with a great clutch shooter (Nick) is a garbage team, poor Dirk.[/b]
Notice they are ALL guards.. you need more than guards to win a championship. Dirk is a good bigman but he can't do it all by himself. He certainly can't be expected to do it with Dampier, Diop, LaFrentz and Bradley..
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[QUOTE=joewait]uh you can laugh all you want, it doesn't matter. The guys Kobe plays against are considerably better than the ones of the Jordan era and Bird played on stacked teams and missed a lot of shots.[/QUOTE]
Joe, you really got to shutup sometimes.
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[QUOTE=lakerfreak]yup :cheers:[/QUOTE]
And this makes you retarded for agreeing with him :violin:
Damn look at all these uneducated d!icks who [B]actually think Bird was a better player than Dirk
!![/B]
:roll::roll: It's probably those same toolbags who actually think Jordan is better than Kobe! :roll:!!!
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haha, i just realized who FabCasablancas is. He's a poster from dallasbasketball.com named 41ForMVP. He was just a Dirk groupie.
He made a thread about how Dirk is a norse god and how he kind of looks like Dirk and we found it and put it on dallasbasketball.com and pretty much retired him. It was the longest clowning in message board history. I think it went nonstop for 4 weeks.
Guys a dumbass and a racist, ignore him.
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[QUOTE=FabCasablancas][b]One thing that people forget, he also played with Finley who was simply a MONSTER back then,[/b]
That clinches it.. you ahve to be TMOGE.. only Tmac thinks Finley is anything other than crap.
The ONLY reason the Mavs beat the Spurs was becaus eof Finley's choking a$$.
[b]but yeah having a top SG and a future two time MVP along with a great clutch shooter (Nick) is a garbage team, poor Dirk.[/b]
Notice they are ALL guards.. you need more than guards to win a championship. Dirk is a good bigman but he can't do it all by himself. He certainly can't be expected to do it with Dampier, Diop, LaFrentz and Bradley..[/QUOTE]
there are only sooo many good centers. There are 2, Shaq and Yao. And Dirk takes up the pf spot with his guard ways so whose fault is that. The fact that it is sooo hard to put a team around Dirk doesnt bode well for him. But Diop and Dampier arent that bad as far as centers go in the league.
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I'm a Mavs fan and Dwyane was probably my favorite player that didn't play for the Mavericks until this crap but being honest if I didn't like the Mavs I would think it was funny.
I mean the Mavericks did disrespect dude during the Finals, hell I remember Josh Howard flat out saying he can't shoot during an interview. I also remember Darryl Armstrong saying he fakes his injuries(which I think he does). I mean if someone said this stuff about you you would be pissed too.
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[QUOTE=TMacsOneGoodEye]haha, i just realized who FabCasablancas is. He's a poster from dallasbasketball.com named 41ForMVP. He was just a Dirk groupie.
He made a thread about how Dirk is a norse god and how he kind of looks like Dirk and we found it and put it on dallasbasketball.com and pretty much retired him. It was the longest clowning in message board history. I think it went nonstop for 4 weeks.
Guys a dumbass and a racist, ignore him.[/QUOTE]
This is the guiy who put a picture of him and his boyfriend he said looked like DIRK...
And he calls me a Dirk groupie.. haha.. him and his friend looked so g@y it was beyond belief. Show that picture again Tmacs.. if you've got the stones. haha
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[b]there are only sooo many good centers. There are 2, Shaq and Yao.[/b]
There are only so many good centers.. exaclty.. and Wade has 2 of the best ones in the elague. And yet Wade is somehow better than Dirk for not even having a very good season in the East and barely being able to beat Dirk in the Finals? WITH the refs handing him the victory?
[b]And Dirk takes up the pf spot with his guard ways so whose fault is that. The fact that it is sooo hard to put a team around Dirk doesnt bode well for him. But Diop and Dampier arent that bad as far as centers go in the league.[/b]
It's not that hard.. the problem is they didn't do it through the draft.. AND Dirk is so underrated.. so freeagents don't want to play with him. That's not his fault.. it's racial bias. It's the same racial bias that says guys like LeBron, Kobe and Wade are better than Dirk despite less accomplishments and worse stats.
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[QUOTE=FabCasablancas][b]there are only sooo many good centers. There are 2, Shaq and Yao.[/b]
There are only so many good centers.. exaclty.. and Wade has 2 of the best ones in the elague. And yet Wade is somehow better than Dirk for not even having a very good season in the East and barely being able to beat Dirk in the Finals? WITH the refs handing him the victory?
[b]And Dirk takes up the pf spot with his guard ways so whose fault is that. The fact that it is sooo hard to put a team around Dirk doesnt bode well for him. But Diop and Dampier arent that bad as far as centers go in the league.[/b]
It's not that hard.. the problem is they didn't do it through the draft.. AND Dirk is so underrated.. so freeagents don't want to play with him. That's not his fault.. it's racial bias. It's the same racial bias that says guys like LeBron, Kobe and Wade are better than Dirk despite less accomplishments and worse stats.[/QUOTE]
Please tell me how Dirk has more accomplishments than Kobe or even Wade?
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[QUOTE=FabCasablancas][b]there are only sooo many good centers. There are 2, Shaq and Yao.[/b]
There are only so many good centers.. exaclty.. and Wade has 2 of the best ones in the elague. And yet Wade is somehow better than Dirk for not even having a very good season in the East and barely being able to beat Dirk in the Finals? WITH the refs handing him the victory?
[b]And Dirk takes up the pf spot with his guard ways so whose fault is that. The fact that it is sooo hard to put a team around Dirk doesnt bode well for him. But Diop and Dampier arent that bad as far as centers go in the league.[/b]
KG
It's not that hard.. the problem is they didn't do it through the draft.. AND Dirk is so underrated.. so freeagents don't want to play with him. That's not his fault.. it's racial bias. It's the same racial bias that says guys like LeBron, Kobe and Wade are better than Dirk despite less accomplishments and worse stats.[/QUOTE]
OK then tell me who would "compliment Dirk", and try not to list the players that I have ranked higher or equal to dirk.
Off limits
Duncan
Kobe
Lebron
Wade
KG
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[QUOTE=LakersDynasty]Please tell me how Dirk has more accomplishments than Kobe or even Wade?[/QUOTE]
Dirk beat up a stationary bike which neither Kobe nor Wade have ever accomplished.
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FabCasablancas:
[IMG]http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y162/curiousg11/ziegheildirk.jpg[/IMG]
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[QUOTE]Why am I an idiot? Who has EVER said Dirk is the best player in the league?[/QUOTE]
:roll: :roll: :roll:
?
[SIZE="5"][B]HOW THE HELL DOES DIRK NOT BEING REFERRED TO AS THE SOLE BEST PLAYER IN THE LEAGUE CORRELATE TO A RACE ISSUE?[/B][/SIZE]
WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOW.
[QUOTE]for people to say Dirk is the 5th best player in the league he has to be the actual best player in the league. That's how it works. If Dirk was actually the 5th best playe rin the league people would say he isn't in the top ten. Dirm is ALWAYS going to be underrated. That's just the way it is. You look at Dikr's stats over the past few years and NO has been as good as him as long as him. That's a fact. he has been the true MVP the past few seasons.. yet he's only the 5th or 6th best player? If Dirk was black there would be no debate.[/QUOTE]
OMG....:roll:
Shaquille O'Neal has won 1 MVP through-out the course of his career which is an NBA travesty.
[B]1[/B]
.
And yet, you sitting trying to spit a case that Dirk is the most underrated player ever, and then trying spit some faulty ass logic bringing race into the issue too.
:roll:
[QUOTE]Dummy? So you are saying guys liek Kobe, Wade and Lebron get somekind of pass because they are short? Because Dikr is 7 feet that's an unfair advantage? This is basketball nimrod.. yeah he's suppsoed to rebound.. because he's 7 feet! That's lie saying Shaq's post dominance doesn't count because he's 7 feet and 4 hundred pounds.. it's BECAUSE Dirk is 7 feet that he is better than these guys! I sware to god.. people are so assbackwards..[/QUOTE]
[B]HE IS A POWERFORWARD, YOU IMBECILE[/B]
A powerforward should always have a SIGNIFICANT amount of more rebounds than a swingman/guard type player.
[QUOTE]Doesn't matter.. they still can't compete with a 7 footer.. that's the point![/QUOTE]
:confusedshrug:
[QUOTE]BS.. this is where the race comes in.. you just assume this because of Dirk's race. NONE of these guys plays D. Kobe doesn't even cross half court half the time.. yet he is said to be one of the best defenders in the league. Someone at 82 games.com watched Kobe play D for a game.. and documented it.. he was atrocious. And it's like that all the time. LeBron and Wade are probably even worse.[/QUOTE]
It's evident you're not even worth addressing from this point on...You're a funny dude, my man.
