What is Kobe's legacy if he beats Miami's big 3 in the finals?

[QUOTE=whatever666]Kobes legacy will be just the same as if he beat the Pacers in the finals... which means another championship.... somewhat increased legacy ofcourse, its as simple as that, this is a team accomplishment, a championship.

The only way Kobes legacy will be increased individualy is if he outperforms Lebron & Wade in the Finals.... which i highly doubt he will, at least not outperform Lebron, Lebron has outperformed Kobe more than vice versa playing against him... if they meet in the playoffs, Lebron will go on a berserker mode, he wont let that chanse slip away,[B] he is much more hungrier than Kobe ever was for a championship[/B].[/QUOTE]
That's why he quit right? Because he was hungrier?

[QUOTE=whatever666]Kobes legacy will be just the same as if he beat the Pacers in the finals... which means another championship.... somewhat increased legacy ofcourse, its as simple as that, this is a team accomplishment, a championship.

The only way Kobes legacy will be increased individualy is if he outperforms Lebron & Wade in the Finals.... which i highly doubt he will, at least not outperform Lebron, Lebron has outperformed Kobe more than vice versa playing against him... if they meet in the playoffs, Lebron will go on a berserker mode, he wont let that chanse slip away, he is much more hungrier than Kobe ever was for a championship.[/QUOTE]

Based on what? there aren't many who are more hungry thasn Kobe. Lebron certainly didn't look hungry in the playoffs last year when alot said he quit on his team.

[QUOTE=whatever666][B]Kobes legacy will be just the same as if he beat the Pacers in the finals...[/B] which means another championship.... somewhat increased legacy ofcourse, its as simple as that, this is a team accomplishment, a championship.

The only way Kobes legacy will be increased individualy is if he outperforms Lebron & Wade in the Finals.... which i highly doubt he will, at least not outperform Lebron, Lebron has outperformed Kobe more than vice versa playing against him... if they meet in the playoffs, Lebron will go on a berserker mode, he wont let that chanse slip away, he is much more hungrier than Kobe ever was for a championship and as you can see Lebron is willing to give up anything for that his money, his home, his stats and his fans...[/QUOTE]

[IMG]http://cdn0.knowyourmeme.com/i/000/054/845/original/tumblr_l3tbklDOuD1qb9qwwo1_500.jpg[/IMG]

:facepalm These Kobe hatred never stop.

Anyway, if Kobe beats da big 3 he would easily and factually be a top 5 player no doubt. 3 finals MVP, and 6 titles.... Would move ahead of Duncan on high iq pals all time list.

The bottom line is that Kobe has been one of the GREATEST POST-SEASON players in NBA HISTORY. To find fault with some of his Finals performances is just being ridiculous. How many Final series do the Lakers make without Kobe DOMINATING the other playoff rounds.

His regular season stats are sensational, as well. And some of his regular season games have been among the greatest ever. How about an 81 point game.? Or a 62 point game (on 31 shots) in a game he leaves leading an ENTIRE TEAM after three quarters (an NBA Finals team BTW)? The fact is, he has been one of the greatest scorers in both the regular season, and in the post-season, in NBA history.

Another ring vaults him very close to top-5 status. And, as I have said before, barring injury, he has 4-5 seasons left. What are his stats and rings going to look like after that?

[QUOTE=jlauber]The bottom line is that Kobe has been one of the GREATEST POST-SEASON players in NBA HISTORY. To find fault with some of his Finals performances is just being ridiculous. How many Final series do the Lakers make without Kobe DOMINATING the other playoff rounds.

His regular season stats are sensational, as well. And some of his regular season games have been among the greatest ever. How about an 81 point game.? Or a 62 point game (on 31 shots) in a game he leaves leading an ENTIRE TEAM after three quarters (an NBA Finals team BTW)? The fact is, he has been one of the greatest scorers in both the regular season, and in the post-season, in NBA history.

Another ring vaults him very close to top-5 status. And, as I have said before, barring injury, he has 4-5 seasons left. What are his stats and rings going to look like after that?[/QUOTE]

YouTube search: Kobe Bryant Clutch Playoff Plays

1-hour, 10 minute, 7 part series with isolated segments for 2000, 2001, 2002, 2003-07, 2008, 2009, 2010.

Start the thread and drop the links. See brain particles on the pavement.

Cant paste the links on mobile.

[QUOTE=Bring-Your-Js]YouTube search: Kobe Bryant Clutch Playoff Plays

1-hour, 10 minute, 7 part series with isolated segments for 2000, 2001, 2002, 2003-07, 2008, 2009, 2010.

Start the thread and drop the links. See brain particles on the pavement.

Cant paste the links on mobile.[/QUOTE]

You don't have to convince me...I've seen almost every one of Kobe's BIG shots in the post-season.

I just get so sick-and-tired of those posters here who TRY to diminish his career because of a few games in his Finals career. Once again, without his BRILLIANT play in most of the post-season, the Lakers probably don't make it to four of those titles.

:facepalm
Kobe's legacy is dependent on how good a basketball player he is, not how much he wins. If he has another brilliant post-season and a epic Finals he'll move up, but if he wins will playing average or mediocre it won't matter. He'll still be top 10-15 All-Time, which is absolutely amazing considering he's only 31.
But he'll never surpass...
Wilt
Kareem
Shaq
Jordan

In all honesty, if he beats Miami this year he will end up as a top 5 player of all time. He is already top 10, and beating a mini Dream Team would put about as close to the top without getting quite to the top.

He will still be behind Jordan though.

[QUOTE=jlauber]You don't have to convince me...I've seen almost every one of Kobe's BIG shots in the post-season.

I just get so sick-and-tired of those posters here who TRY to diminish his career because of a few games in his Finals career. Once again, without his BRILLIANT play in most of the post-season, the Lakers probably don't make it to four of those titles.[/QUOTE]

Really though, it's the definitive ***** slap. It's hilariously Absurd.

Honestly Kobe fans, what do you guys want us to say? Kobe won't beat the Heat by himself. I would even say that Pau Gasol is as big as a factor as Kobe is.

[QUOTE=whatever666]Kobes legacy will be just the same as if he beat the Pacers in the finals... which means another championship.... somewhat increased legacy ofcourse, its as simple as that, this is a team accomplishment, a championship.

The only way Kobes legacy will be increased individualy is if he outperforms Lebron & Wade in the Finals.... which i highly doubt he will, at least not outperform Lebron, Lebron has outperformed Kobe more than vice versa playing against him... if they meet in the playoffs, Lebron will go on a berserker mode, he wont let that chanse slip away,[B] he is much more hungrier than Kobe ever was for a championship and as you can see Lebron is willing to give up anything for that, his money[/B], his home, his "the man" status and his fans... he wants to dismantle Kobe right here and right now... that is the last step he has to take before he officialy is undebatably the best player in the world right now if he dismantles the Lakers in the Finals.[/QUOTE]

He is coward.

He is no where as hungry as Bryant, the guy had the best team record wise and gave up in game 5....

[QUOTE=game3524]He is coward.

He is no where as hungry as Bryant, the guy had the best team record wise and gave up in game 5....[/QUOTE]
Yeah, he's not hungry at all for Championships. Thats why he made this risky move, made himself one of the most hated players and risked his brand just cause he's not hungry at all. No no..

[QUOTE=Nash]Yeah, he's not hungry at all for Championships. Thats why he made this risky move, made himself one of the most hated players and risked his brand just cause he's not hungry at all. No no..[/QUOTE]

Guys who are hungry show it on the floor, Lebron didn't.

[QUOTE=Nash]Yeah, he's not hungry at all for Championships. Thats why he made this risky move, made himself one of the most hated players and risked his brand just cause he's not hungry at all. No no..[/QUOTE]

The guy quit while being on the best team in the East, he is coward and couldn't handle being the guy.

[QUOTE=All Net]Guys who are hungry show it on the floor, Lebron didn't.[/QUOTE]
Yeah, cuz for 7 years, all those point, all those awards and back to back MVP titles, he didn't show anything on the floor. He was just planning his move to Miami for 7 years. Thank you for telling me that, Kobe fan.

[QUOTE=Nash]Yeah, cuz for 7 years, all those point, all those awards and back to back MVP titles, he didn't show anything on the floor. He was just planning his move to Miami for 7 years. Thank you for telling me that, Kobe fan.[/QUOTE]

Guys who badly want to win would of showed more will to win and not give up in the playoffs. Lebron is a great player but his hungry to win has yet to be proven.

[QUOTE=game3524]The guy quit while being on the best team in the East, he is coward and couldn't handle being the guy.[/QUOTE]
Being on the best team in the East? He was the sole reason why they were the best team in the rest. What you don't get is that without him they are a crap team and everybody is going to see that next season. Stop hating.

"Couldn't handle being the guy", I love that logic. So before Kobe got Pau, he couldn't handle being the guy right? But all of a sudden, when they got him Pau, he magically became the guy. Great.

[QUOTE=All Net]Guys who badly want to win would of showed more will to win and not give up in the playoffs. Lebron is a great player but his hungry to win has yet to be proven.[/QUOTE]
Check the game against Detroit in 07 and tell me if he isn't hungry.

[QUOTE=game3524]He is coward.

He is no where as hungry as Bryant, the guy had the best team record wise and gave up in game 5....[/QUOTE]

Hes a coward? Why?

Kobe had good players on his team.
Jordan had good players on his team.

before it even starts ill just
.
.
.
.... every good player in history who had good players on their team.

Lebrons old team was dead weight. And he carried them for years. Your a coward for not understanding him going where he belongs. With Champions. He served the paupers long enough.


And @ OP im gonna say it like this, they are going to crush the lakers.

[QUOTE=All Net]Guys who badly want to win would of showed more will to win and not give up in the playoffs. Lebron is a great player but his hungry to win has yet to be proven.[/QUOTE]

So why did he move to Miami?

[QUOTE=plowking]So why did he move to Miami?[/QUOTE]
The move to Miami showed that he was scared of losing; it didn't show he wanted to win.

If he had stayed in Cleveland and gotten beat year after year even having HCA, it would have proven he didn't have what it took to win. So he took the gimme instead. That's not the move of a hungry competitor, it's the move of a guy afraid he can't be the man.

I don't understand some people. The people who say the Lakers are heavy favorites over the Heat next season are the same people that say if the Lakers beat the Heat, then Kobe has a case for GOAT.

If Kobe's team is superior to the Heat as a lot of people claim, than why would beating an inferior team like the Heat propel Kobe over Jordan?

[QUOTE=barbaroi][B]The move to Miami showed that he was scared of losing; it didn't show he wanted to win. [/B]

If he had stayed in Cleveland and gotten beat year after year even having HCA, it would have proven he didn't have what it took to win. So he took the gimme instead. That's not the move of a hungry competitor, it's the move of a guy afraid he can't be the man.[/QUOTE]

Yeah...It could mean that he was scared....But at the sametime it shows that he's putting his personal stats, and accolades, aswell as possibly his legacy, and multiple fans...Just to win a title.

It can go both ways.

[QUOTE=dyna]I don't understand some people. The people who say the Lakers are heavy favorites over the Heat next season are the same people that say if the Lakers beat the Heat, then Kobe has a case for GOAT.

If Kobe's team is superior to the Heat as a lot of people claim, than why would beating an inferior team like the [B]Heat propel Kobe over Jordan[/B]?[/QUOTE]

Pretty sure no one said it would get him over Jordan...It would help his legacy...Meaning, move him from 10,9,8...To top 5 or so....There's nothing he can do to become better than Jordan.

I mean...If he wins like 6 finals MVP's which would mean like 9 titles...Ends with more All-NBA, Defensive, All-Star, Total Playoff Points and Reg Season pts...He would have a case...But still prob fall short.

[QUOTE=thomaspynchon]Well, first off, the Lakers win more often in spite of Kobe than due to Kobe.
[/QUOTE]

Let's look at this... Over the last three playoff seasons, Bryant's numbers have been...

2007-2008: [B]30.1/5.7/5.6[/B]
2008-2009: [B]30.2/5.3/5.5[/B]
2009-2010: [B]29.2/6.0/5.5[/B]

All together... [B]29.8/5.7/5.5[/B]

Are you saying that more often than not, the Lakers have won regardless of Bryant's play?

[QUOTE=MaxFly]Let's look at this... Over the last three playoff seasons, Bryant's numbers have been...

2007-2008: [B]30.1/5.7/5.6[/B]
2008-2009: [B]30.2/5.3/5.5[/B]
2009-2010: [B]29.2/6.0/5.5[/B]

All together... [B]29.8/5.7/5.5[/B]

Are you saying that more often than not, the Lakers have won regardless of Bryant's play?[/QUOTE]

Exactly. Let's face reality here...

The Lakers won despite Kobe, just as the Bulls won their titles despite the play of MJ, and the Celtics won their titles despite the play of Russell. Can you imagine how much greater those teams would have been without those clowns?

[QUOTE=barbaroi]The move to Miami showed that he was scared of losing; it didn't show he wanted to win.

If he had stayed in Cleveland and gotten beat year after year even having HCA, it would have proven he didn't have what it took to win. So he took the gimme instead. That's not the move of a hungry competitor, it's the move of a guy afraid he can't be the man.[/QUOTE]

Of course...

Lebron's never had a team like Kobe or Pierce or Shaq and now that he does, we'll see how he fares.

[QUOTE=plowking]Of course...

Lebron's never had a team like Kobe or Pierce or Shaq and now that he does, we'll see how he fares.[/QUOTE]
Consecutive #1 seeds isn't good enough for him? People always sell the Cavs short I feel. They had very good players in place around Lebron (who else had 3 high volume 40+% 3 point shooters?), and were a dominant defensive team under Mike Brown.

[QUOTE=barbaroi]Consecutive #1 seeds isn't good enough for him? People always sell the Cavs short I feel. They had very good players in place around Lebron (who else had 3 high volume 40+% 3 point shooters?), and were a dominant defensive team under Mike Brown.[/QUOTE]

Well, it would have probably helped had any of them played decently in the playoffs. The only player that contributed anything in the playoffs was an over-the-hill Shaq.

[QUOTE=barbaroi]Consecutive #1 seeds isn't good enough for him? People always sell the Cavs short I feel. They had very good players in place around Lebron (who else had 3 high volume 40+% 3 point shooters?), and were a dominant defensive team under Mike Brown.[/QUOTE]

They have great defensive players, and that's about it. The only decent guys offensively on that team are Delonte West and Shaq.
The point of basketball is to score, if you can't do that, you're screwed.

Boston was better than Cleveland at every position bar SF.
Same goes with Orlando.
Same goes with the Lakers - minus PG.
How about the Spurs?

There's a few other teams as well that this could be said about in comparison to the Cavs. And there are even more that were more well rounded and just better than the Cavs as a team. I don't think you get how much Lebron carried that team.

[QUOTE=barbaroi]Consecutive #1 seeds isn't good enough for him? People always sell the Cavs short I feel. They had very good players in place around Lebron (who else had 3 high volume 40+% 3 point shooters?), and were a dominant defensive team under Mike Brown.[/QUOTE]

They didn't even have an offense.

[QUOTE=plowking]They have great defensive players, and that's about it. The only decent guys offensively on that team are Delonte West and Shaq.
The point of basketball is to score, if you can't do that, you're screwed.

Boston was better than Cleveland at every position bar SF.
Same goes with Orlando.
Same goes with the Lakers - minus PG.
How about the Spurs?

There's a few other teams as well that this could be said about in comparison to the Cavs. And there are even more that were more well rounded and just better than the Cavs as a team. I don't think you get how much Lebron carried that team.[/QUOTE]
:lol Dude, you used to kill Lebron as much as anyone on here. I understand, I would have grown to defend him too if he came on the Knicks. But he didn't so fcuk that guy. P[i]u[/i]ssyass check my stats lol

As for legacy, who really gives a damn about it, other than dudes that want Kobe to somehow rise to become the GOAT. I am one of those people but I don't think it'll happen. There is no shame in becoming the 2nd GOAT though, which is reachable.

[QUOTE=whatever666]
The only way Kobes legacy will be increased individualy is if he outperforms Lebron & Wade in the Finals.... which i highly doubt he will, at least not outperform Lebron, Lebron has outperformed Kobe more than vice versa playing against him... if they meet in the playoffs, L[B]ebron will go on a berserker mode, he wont let that chanse slip away, he is much more hungrier than Kobe ever was for a championship[/B] and as you can see Lebron is willing to give up anything for that, his money, his home, his "the man" status and his fans... he wants to dismantle Kobe right here and right now... that is the last step he has to take before he officialy is undebatably the best player in the world right now if he dismantles the Lakers in the Finals.[/QUOTE]

Really? So he wasn't hungry against the Celtics? I get it! NOW he's hungry.

Thanks for the clarification.

[QUOTE=branslowski]Yeah...It could mean that he was scared....But at the sametime it shows that he's putting his personal stats, and accolades, aswell as possibly his legacy, and multiple fans...Just to win a title.

It can go both ways.[/QUOTE]

I don't think LeBron thought he would lose fans. He's so narcissistic that he figured everyone in Cleveland would still take him back -- look at his quotes from today. How it would be a "great story" if he were to come back.

I will laugh my ass off if they win but DWade wins FMVP... bye bye branding.

Top 3

[QUOTE=All Net]I think most would agree Kobe is in that 9-10 range at the moment. Would beating Lebron and Wade in the finals jump him up to maybe the top 5 if he manages to beat these two superstars while winning his 6th championship and winning his 3rd finals MVP along with completing a Lakers 3-peat. A lot are expecting L.A to beat Miami due to the size factor but does Kobe leading Lakers to another 3-peat jump him even higher?[/QUOTE]


It would help but I think Boston is still better than Miami.. Especially since Shaq has joined them.. And I don't like the role players Miami has alongside the big three.. Plus the LAKERS are fielding what may be the best team 1-12 TEAM THE LEAGUE HAS SEEN IN A LONG TIME....


I am rooting for THE SPURS... LOL... I guess that means they will wind up losing in the first round... If I had to bet money than bOSTON VS LAKERS would be my bet for the finals.... With Boston winning if they are healthy...To me Shaq would make a huge difference vs the Lakers...

[QUOTE=MaxFly]Let's look at this... Over the last three playoff seasons, Bryant's numbers have been...

2007-2008: [B]30.1/5.7/5.6[/B]
2008-2009: [B]30.2/5.3/5.5[/B]
2009-2010: [B]29.2/6.0/5.5[/B]

All together... [B]29.8/5.7/5.5[/B]

Are you saying that more often than not, the Lakers have won regardless of Bryant's play?[/QUOTE]


Kobe has been great in the playoffs besides the Finals in the past three seasons.. I think the rougher play in the east slows down Kobe's game but he has usually played smart once the playoffs begin...


Kobe, in my opinion has hurt his teams' REGULAR SEASON record with his play in the regular season.. I think him wanting to win the MVP too much hurt their record last year.....Gasol showed he was a great player when Kobe went out...

[QUOTE=MaxFly]
2007-2008: [B]30.1/5.7/5.6[/B]
2008-2009: [B]30.2/5.3/5.5[/B]
2009-2010: [B]29.2/6.0/5.5[/B]

All together... [B]29.8/5.7/5.5[/B]

[/QUOTE]
Holy crap. :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown:

[QUOTE=Jacks3]Holy crap. :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown:[/QUOTE]

Pretend like you didn't know that

there are 2 options now

1: you pretended you didn't know that

2: you didn't know that which immediatly makes u a fake fanboy