So are people taking the Mavs seriously as top title contender yet?

[QUOTE=R4E]
Truth be told Dirk N is a regular season marvel and a playoff fraud.[/QUOTE]Son got robbed from his rightful championship in the 2006 finals, and everyone with a brain knows what went on with making D-Wade (D-Whistle) the new pretty boy savior of the league that year. David Stern knows what he did. tim Donaghy knows too. the truth will come out man, just like the truth about Sacremento vs. the Lakers came out in Donaghy's investigation.

Dirk quit basketball entirely that summer and went full-on hippie mode, backpacking across europe contemplating his life, career, and family...and what he should do....not because he lost, but after finding out that he'd been playing for a league that would do something so crooked like this, and he debated quitting the NBA that summer, and returning home to Germany to play ion the Bundesleague and win every year averaging 40.

He chose to persevere, and had his best season yet, going 67-15 with a #1 seed, winning MVP....only to have his former coach (Don Nelson), who knew all his ins-and-outs, devise a scheme to take him out of the series offensively in 07, and watch what the rest of the team did, it worked, Dirk averaged only 19 that series, and the mavs lost in the first round...and that's when all the choker talk started. he went on an even longer backpack that offseason, again going months without playing ball....but came back again to try and beat the game that was fixed against him.

He's not physically strong, but he's one of the best shooters of all-time, Like Reggie Miller, Ray Allen, Rip Hamilton, Herry West, Pistol Pete, Larry Bird.....none of those dudes had swoll arms, not even a little bit....neither will the next great shooting scorer of the NBA...Kevin Durant....Jabbar was almost all finesse, Olajuwon for most of his career was predominantly grace and finesse.....these dudes actually prefferred to be godly and graceful in every movement, never relying on violent actions in competition unless there was an advantage to doing so. they are also players NO ONE can front on...and I say that as someone brown who has kicked it in hundreds of Black barbershops on the westside, and hundreds of white barbershops on the northside.....finesse and gentlemanly greatness should be respected as much by young black men as it is by old black men....but scared is as scared does, and hatred and violence stem from fear. A fear of something different. And the way Dirk plays the game...it sure is different than how the young brothers play it.

And yet he slaughters them every year. And yes in the playoffs. A player doesn't have to be physically dominant to dominate...this is a misnomer brought up by those, who in their own experience with playing the game, ONLY had athleticism to offer on the court, they don't appreciate or admire those able to dominate a game without needing to utilize the fan's only attribute. It's the same reason them big fat white dudes watching football don't really feel the receivers too much, but they love a hard nosed Linebacker or Lineman, or a hard nosed fullback....Your motivations are no better than theirs son.

I hope you can come full circle and appreciate that Dirk Nowitzki is one of the 25 best to play the game, even if he doesn't do it "your way".

Fortuneately, this year, the Mavericks are a [B]TOP 5 DEFENSIVE TEAM[/B], without needing to be physical....we'll see what happens, but I think alot of racist haters are going to be upset.

^ Wouldn't you be the racist one since you went on that irrelevant, race baiting rant even though the post you are replying to made no mention of race? :facepalm

[QUOTE=50inchvertical]^ Wouldn't you be the racist one since you went on that irrelevant, race baiting rant even though the post you are replying to made no mention of race? :facepalm[/QUOTE]Cut the sh!t son. Read between the lines in dude's post, he tries to pretend he's diplomatic, to hide his insult....he got just the right shock, for his own particular level of understanding of the game.

[QUOTE=BarberSchool]Son got robbed from his rightful championship in the 2006 finals, and everyone with a brain knows what went on with making D-Wade (D-Whistle) the new pretty boy savior of the league that year. David Stern knows what he did. tim Donaghy knows too. the truth will come out man, just like the truth about Sacremento vs. the Lakers came out in Donaghy's investigation.
[B]
Dirk quit basketball entirely that summer and went full-on hippie mode, backpacking across europe contemplating his life, career, and family...and what he should do....not because he lost, but after finding out that he'd been playing for a league that would do something so crooked like this, and he debated quitting the NBA that summer, and returning home to Germany to play ion the Bundesleague and win every year averaging 40. [/B]
He chose to persevere, and had his best season yet, going 67-15 with a #1 seed, winning MVP....only to have his former coach (Don Nelson), who knew all his ins-and-outs, devise a scheme to take him out of the series offensively in 07, and watch what the rest of the team did, it worked, Dirk averaged only 19 that series, and the mavs lost in the first round...and that's when all the choker talk started. he went on an even longer backpack that offseason, again going months without playing ball....but came back again to try and beat the game that was fixed against him.

He's not physically strong, but he's one of the best shooters of all-time, Like Reggie Miller, Ray Allen, Rip Hamilton, Herry West, Pistol Pete, Larry Bird.....none of those dudes had swoll arms, not even a little bit....neither will the next great shooting scorer of the NBA...Kevin Durant....Jabbar was almost all finesse, Olajuwon for most of his career was predominantly grace and finesse.....these dudes actually prefferred to be godly and graceful in every movement, never relying on violent actions in competition unless there was an advantage to doing so. they are also players NO ONE can front on...and I say that as someone brown who has kicked it in hundreds of Black barbershops on the westside, and hundreds of white barbershops on the northside.....finesse and gentlemanly greatness should be respected as much by young black men as it is by old black men....but scared is as scared does, and hatred and violence stem from fear. A fear of something different. And the way Dirk plays the game...it sure is different than how the young brothers play it.

And yet he slaughters them every year. And yes in the playoffs. A player doesn't have to be physically dominant to dominate...this is a misnomer brought up by those, who in their own experience with playing the game, ONLY had athleticism to offer on the court, they don't appreciate or admire those able to dominate a game without needing to utilize the fan's only attribute. It's the same reason them big fat white dudes watching football don't really feel the receivers too much, but they love a hard nosed Linebacker or Lineman, or a hard nosed fullback....Your motivations are no better than theirs son.

I hope you can come full circle and appreciate that Dirk Nowitzki is one of the 25 best to play the game, even if he doesn't do it "your way".

Fortuneately, this year, the Mavericks are a [B]TOP 5 DEFENSIVE TEAM[/B], without needing to be physical....we'll see what happens, but I think alot of racist haters are going to be upset.[/QUOTE]


is this true? I wouldn't be surprised if the Finals defeat led him to almost lose his mind.

they wont beat the Lakers with Barea trying to drive on the Laker bigs ..but if Baebouis breaks out and takes Bareas minutes..

then yes i take them serious ..

I was really impressed with their defense on the road against Miami .. they shut down the paint and shut down Lebron ..

[QUOTE=bettalaylow]What an insightful comment considering Duncan isn't even the goto guy anymore on the Spurs and what the hell do you mean by big wing player really that's what the Mavs need to win the West smh. Go back to basketball school.[/QUOTE]

I did and I found out that a basketball team consists of five players. I'm glad I could share that knowledge with you. You obviously need it.

you havent heard the mavs excuses?

they dont care about playoffs, they're proven in the regular season.

tell me who doesn't want to watch a Heat vs Lakers finals?

Mavs to the finals? bleh....

make it happen, Stern

[QUOTE=All Net]Lets face it they are playing great, 24-5 record, beaten Miami twice, Spurs, great record against 500 above teams

Chandler inside has made a real difference inside for them.

You believe they have a great shot to be champs come end of the season? or still not sure?[/QUOTE]
They are legit for sure Net. There can be only one though so if they do not make it to the top this time it could be a tough summer.

The main difference between these Mavs and the post Warriors Mavs is that they believe again for the first time in years. Chandler changed the whole attitude of the club.

He also gives the Mavs an opportunity to play 5 on 5 on offense, instead of 4 on 5. In the play-offs Haywood and Dampier are left more open than Magic Johnson at a hooker convention. Players rotate of them to double Dirk and mark the shooters tight. Now you have Chandler at the rim, who can finish and if he gets fouled on late rotations actually makes his free throws unlike Dampier and Haywood. If you don

[QUOTE=icemanfan]They are legit for sure Net. There can be only one though so if they do not make it to the top this time it could be a tough summer.[/QUOTE]

True there are so many good teams, that winning it all has a lot to with luck. When you play against the refs and your dumb coach it

[QUOTE=R4E] Similarly once Cuban and co. realized that Dirk was not the one to grit his teeth and growl in the post season? The Mavericks had to bring in Chandler and Butler who were not necessarily going to cower to teams like the Nuggets(who according to Cuban himself were "a bunch of thugs"). Anthony, Billups, Martin, Birdman and Ne Ne were not going to just fall in line with Cuban's notions of gentlemanly sportsmanship in pursuit of the western conference, apparently. The book is written - get very physical with Dirk N in a post season series...and let the chips fall. [/QUOTE]
How do these haters always come up with some new sh*t? Dirk averaged 34.4 points, 11.6 rebounds and 4 assists in the series against Denver and shat all over them. If the refs would have whistled the foul against Melo, they lose and the series goes to 6 agmes.

[QUOTE=creepingdeath]How do these haters always come up with some new sh*t? Dirk averaged 34.4 points, 11.6 rebounds and 4 assists in the series against Denver and shat all over them. If the refs would have whistled the foul against Melo, they lose and the series goes to 6 agmes.[/QUOTE]

Creepingdeath, just out of curiousity - are you in agreement with BarberSchool that *****[B]Dirk Nowitzki is one of the 25 best to play the game[/B], even if he doesn't do it "your way".*****

And BarberSchool is that top 25 of [B]all[/B] players in NBA & ABA history???

Can you really take these guys seriously?

[URL="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HwfMmNXwzL0&feature=player_embedded"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HwfMmNXwzL0&feature=player_embedded[/URL]

[QUOTE=R4E]Creepingdeath, just out of curiousity - are you in agreement with BarberSchool that *****[B]Dirk Nowitzki is one of the 25 best to play the game[/B], even if he doesn't do it "your way".*****
[/QUOTE]
It doesn't matter what I think about that. Why should I even bother answer someone's question who claimed that Dirk is a playoff fraud?

On a sidenote: Dirk's still in his prime years and this season might be his best yet. His resume will only get better.

as my fav espn analysts jbull n tim legler always say, this is da team too look out for in da west... glad my WIZ aint in da west

[QUOTE=creepingdeath]It doesn't matter what I think about that. Why should I even bother answer someone's question who claimed that Dirk is a playoff fraud?

On a sidenote: Dirk's still in his prime years and this season might be his best yet. His resume will only get better.[/QUOTE]

Because I am brand new here. I am just checking out what the typical poster here sees when watching the NBA game - and how atypical my perspectives are concerning the NBA game.

Everybody that has played basketball at a high level can see that Dirk N has uncommon skill...at least offensively. When I posted that Dirk is not tough or determined enough to get it done in the post season? Dirk apologists immediately hit me with Dirk's oh-so-impressive post season series statistics.

Consider this: every NBA team in the post season is going to have dominate players who have amassed impressive statistics - usually over the course of a well established NBA career. So impressive statitstics alone are never going to determine which team will win the series, the conference or the championship. So Dirk may get his(apparently) highly coveted statistics in the post season, but his teams(where Dirk is the supposed leader and best player) are typically an easy out - sometimes even a joke of an easy out. If there was a choice Dirk would be better off sacrificing his statistical marvels to consistently propel his teams farther each post season in the tournament.

Dirk is a playoff fraud because his game is limited and predictable. In other words, Dirk's game is not adaptable to give his team exactly what it needs to win down the stretch against an elite opponent. Would Dirk make the key steal to preserve the victory down the stretch when defense is what is needed to secure the series?

What makes a truly [B]elite[/B] player is the way they elevate their teams' play and make every player around them better. Dirk does his statistical thing, plays hard and the way he can in the playoffs...but an elite player? A [B]top 25[/B] of [B]all time[/B] player? Whadda sad joke

[QUOTE=kentatm]:facepalm

that is just flat out pathetic analysis

you took ONE game (that he still put up 26/9 in) to disregard his entire career. Never mind Dirk has been one of the biggest 4th quarter scorers in the NBA for 10 years now. You just flat out don't know what the hell you are talking about.[/QUOTE]

It is that Dirk was a decoy when it was time to close the Heat out.

Mavs at the Heat was a marquee game, esp as an early regular season game. Elite players come to play for the entire game when healthy for big time games. Elite players expect to make grand contributions in big time games, and particularly down the stretch of big time games. It seems Dirk was content to be a decoy...and even commented on how elated he was that Terry was taking over games in the 4th quarter recently. A true eyebrow raiser of a comment, I would say

:cheers:

No. They're usually really good in the regular season but they always blow it in the playoffs.

:applause: :applause: :applause:

[QUOTE=moaz]Why do we have to ask this question again?
Morons would mention GSW
Bigger morons : Miami
The biggest morons: Mavs chock [B]always[/B] in the playoffs.

U can write 10000 posts about Chandler/their defense this year, the morons would only see Mavs/Dirk and automatically write the same answer.

Lets w8t and see. And maybe they'll make a good trade in the winter.


BTW i don't believe they would win it all. Imo they need another piece.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=game385]No. They're usually really good in the regular season but they always blow it in the playoffs.[/QUOTE]

I think they are the 3rd best team in the west behind Lakers and Spurs. The 1234 would probably be Lakers, Mavs, Spurs and Utah. They might actually be better than San Antonio. The Mavs do have a better bench then them and thats not just Jason Terry. But Utah might come rolling thru with DWill and company. Utah has a bunch of underrated players on that team. Lakers-Mavs WCF.

[QUOTE=R4E][B]Dirk[/B] is a playoff fraud because [B]his game is limited and predictable.[/B][/QUOTE]Bolded portion is true.
Dirk's game is limited and *somewhat* predictable.
Many dominant players have been limited and predictable. Jabbar, Ewing, Bernard King, Tim Dincan, even malone after he cut off his high-top was really quite predictable......
...and guess what....
...even with moderate predictability and stylistic limitations...
...there still ain't a d@mn thing Garnett, Melo, Nene, Birdman, Duncan, McDyess, Battier, Landry, Webber, or Amare could do to stop Nowitzki in the postseason for his whole career....the only one who held dirk to less than ~23ppg in a series was his former coach, Don Nelson. think about that.....then think about how many greats have been held under 20 and knocked out in the first round more than once.....you'll find alot of players you assumed otherwise.....how many times have the other greats of Today made the NBA finals? How many others have made it to numerous Western Conference Finals? How many have gotten knocked out of the first round more than once? You'll find alot of teams you just forgot about, that you assumed did better and never "choked".

And as for the all-time ranking....Dirk's top 40 at worst right now, and when he retires maybe 4 years from now, he'll be top 25. Ask Jordan, Magic, Bird, Shaq, Kobe, Walton, Russel, Hakeem, Barkley and and Jabbar where they rank Dirk when he retires.

And watch how mad so many haters will be if the Mavericks win a title this year WITHOUT the Lakers, Spurs or Celtics suffering a major injury. Watch Stern try to set the mavs up to fail in a WCF by having Danny Crawford ref every game in the series, and the Mavs still pull it out. The kneejerk reaction haters will be scrambling for excuses to discredit the Mavericks. Pointing at luck or an opponent's weakness, never at the Mavericks wise veteran roster, diverse offensive talent, and top 5 defense. It's posters like you and other doubters and haters that have made me emotionally commit to the mavericks again, and I can't wait for the postseason. See your team there.:pimp:

[QUOTE=eppelp]Can you really take these guys seriously?

[URL="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HwfMmNXwzL0&feature=player_embedded"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HwfMmNXwzL0&feature=player_embedded[/URL][/QUOTE]

:oldlol:

Barea looks like a kid

[QUOTE=R4E]Because I am brand new here. I am just checking out what the typical poster here sees when watching the NBA game - and how atypical my perspectives are concerning the NBA game.[/QUOTE]
Dirk has been underrated here for several years, yet since a few months the respect for him seems to have grown a lot due to his MVP-calibre ball.

[QUOTE=R4E]Everybody that has played basketball at a high level can see that Dirk N has uncommon skill...at least offensively. When I posted that Dirk is not tough or determined enough to get it done in the post season? Dirk apologists immediately hit me with Dirk's oh-so-impressive post season series statistics.[/QUOTE]
Your first post in this thread was claiming that KG would throw DN halfway over the court, which is quite ridiculous considering the fact that Nowitzki regularly sh*ts on KG, especially in the playoffs. You then went on to describe is supposed softness and denied him being a closer, attributing that feat to the likes of Terry. :facepalm

[QUOTE=R4E]Consider this: every NBA team in the post season is going to have dominate players who have amassed impressive statistics - usually over the course of a well established NBA career. So impressive statitstics alone are never going to determine which team will win the series, the conference or the championship. So Dirk may get his(apparently) highly coveted statistics in the post season, but his teams(where Dirk is the supposed leader and best player) are typically an easy out - sometimes even a joke of an easy out. [B]If there was a choice Dirk would be better off sacrificing his statistical marvels to consistently propel his teams farther each post season in the tournament.[/B][/QUOTE]
The bolded part is true, indeed. If Dirk was facing the choice whether his team fares deeper into the playoffs with him only averaging only 15/5, he would do that. But if he averaged such statistics, the Mavs would drown against any opponent (at least in a series). I'm actually not quite sure what you are hinting at. Dirk's stats are not empty, if you want to imply that, thus the 50+ win seasons for a decade.

[QUOTE=R4E]Dirk is a playoff fraud because his game is limited and predictable. In other words, Dirk's game is not adaptable to give his team exactly what it needs to win down the stretch against an elite opponent. Would Dirk make the key steal to preserve the victory down the stretch when defense is what is needed to secure the series?[/QUOTE]
Well, coincidentally, in the first game versus the Heat, Dirk has had two crucial steals down the stretch. Only a tiny example. DN is not only a great scorer, and definitely not predictable (truly elite scorer cannot be predictable, that's mutually exclusive). As for his defense, it's vastly underrated. While dirk's help defense is average, his 1on1 D is actually good. People who regularly watch Mavs games know that.
[I]
Defense: Pts per 100 Poss. w/ Dirk on the court: 99.8
Defense: Pts per 100 Poss. w/ Dirk off the court: 112.5

Effective FG% Allowed w/ Dirk in the court: 45.7%
Effective FG% Allowed w/ Dirk off the court: 52.7%

Defensive Rebounding w/ Dirk on the court: 72.9%
Defensive Rebounding w/ Dirk off the court: 70.6%
[/I]
[QUOTE=R4E]What makes a truly [B]elite[/B] player is the way they elevate their teams' play and make every player around them better. Dirk does he statistical thing and plays hard and the way he can in the playoffs...[/QUOTE]
Exactly what Dirk does.

[QUOTE=R4E]
Mavs at the Heat was a marquee game, esp as an early regular season game. Elite players come to play for the entire game when healthy for big time games. Elite players expect to make grand contributions in big time games, and particularly down the stretch of big time games. It seems Dirk was content to be a decoy...and even commented on how elated he was that Terry was taking over games in the 4th quarter recently. A true eyebrow raiser of a comment, I would say
[/QUOTE]
So what are you saying? That Dirk doesn't show up in the 4th? :roll: Nice way of exposing yourself as an ignorant poster.

Dirk was third in 4th quarter points last year (only to Lebron and Kobe), he has had amazing takeovers (29 points against Utah in the 4th quarter, several rbds, stls and ass) and several gamewinners (including some to beat the buzzer). To stay with this season, only a few games ago, against Portland, he scored 12 of the last 16 points of the Mavs in the final quarter. He hit the gamewinner against the Celtics and is tied for 3rd or 5th place (don't remember correctly) for most 4th quarter points per game.

yes

[QUOTE=BarberSchool] that have made me emotionally commit to the mavericks again, and I can't wait for the postseason. See your team there.:pimp:[/QUOTE]

I am an enthusiastic Laker fan, Barber School. Now Kobe is authentically a top 25 NBA historical player...as his 5 glistening rings exclaim. And further, it is Pau Gasol who is the greatest foreign player to toil on the NBA's hallowed court...and no other.

As for your emotional rebirth and commitment in supporting the Mavs and statistical marvel Dirk?

You, sir, are accurately described as a masochist.

You all can apologize and excuse all you want...but Dirk, Mark Cuban and the Dallas Mavericks have a history that will continually repeat. Bank it like cash money

Call me skeptical. It's not necessarily how the Mavericks play in the playoffs (which is far from flawless, under pressure), it's how opponents [I]play[/I] the Mavs in the playoffs. They turn them into jump shooters, they make Dirk carry the team, they make the Mavs defend, they make Carlisle have to adjust, etc. Regular season is one thing, but I think when you really put the clamp down on players like Dirk, Terry, and even Jason Kidd, they're going to have a hard time getting more W's than L's. They don't exit in the first round a few times just by fluke, they lack(ed) too many things I think, starting from the best player on the team's qualities to the coach's. I take every team in the league seriously though, especially considering surprises happen every season, and the Mavs have been to the Finals once. But the only true "top title contenders" in my mind are the Lakers and Celtics. Spurs, Mavs, Heat, all contenders but not quite at the top looking down.

Dallas and any Dirk led team should never be taken seriously as a threat until they have won 4 games in the NBA finals. And I mean actually won, the buzzer ran out and the Finals MVP trophy has been presented. I don't care if there are two seconds on the clock and Dallas has a 50 point lead. They could win all 82 games in the regular season and they still shouldn't be the favorite going into the post-season. Dirk's Dallas teams have always been regular season monsters.

That's just how it is when you have won 50 games for like 10 years straight and have lost in the first round as both a 1 and 2 seed and never won it all.

I actually think they're better in the underdog role because their biggest playoff series wins have been when they weren't favored. When they're favored, more often than not, it's an embarrassing exit.

[QUOTE=R4E]And further, it is Pau Gasol who is the greatest foreign player to toil on the NBA's hallowed court...and no other. [/QUOTE]
:roll:

But nice way of totally ignoring my post. Very revealing of the credibility of you and your arguments...

[QUOTE=R4E]As for your emotional rebirth and commitment in supporting the Mavs and statistical marvel Dirk?

You, sir, are accurately described as a masochist.

You all can apologize and excuse all you want...but Dirk, Mark Cuban and the Dallas Mavericks have a history that will continually repeat. Bank it like cash money[/QUOTE]
No Mavs fan has ever apologized in this thread. :confusedshrug: Dallas might not have a ring, but they've had some nice runs in the playoffs the last decade and have been great in the RS. If you just happen to be a Lakers fan, good for you, but it's not like you contributed anything to their rings, so who cares. Being fan of one of the most successful NBA franchises doesn't make you a better supporter, quite the contrary, popularity begets even more popularity, so there are a lot of bandwagoners who put the real fans in a bad light.

[QUOTE=creepingdeath]:roll:

But nice way of totally ignoring my post. Very revealing of the credibility of you and your arguments... [/QUOTE]

I chose not to engage you further, creepingdeath - not for lack of respecting the way you see the game or your use statistics to support your arguments - which is admirable by the way...

In 2 posts you have exacerbated a tactic about describing me as self-revealing my ignorance. And if I am truly ignorant? I did not think you wanted to see a response from me. I honestly thought you were grandstanding to soothe Dirk apologists. It is all good...

:cheers:

[I]If you just happen to be a Lakers fan, good for you, but it's not like you contributed anything to their rings, so who cares.[/I]

While true, I am not sure you are the one to measure that in ignorance.

Barber School ended - see your team in the playoffs - is why I designated myself as a Laker Fan - and no other reason.

Pau Gasol, who has never won a playoff game as the #1 option, is the best foreign player ever to touch an NBA court.

Hilarious.

[QUOTE=Hawker]Pau Gasol, who has never won a playoff game as the #1 option, is the best foreign player ever to touch an NBA court.

Hilarious.[/QUOTE]

Pau Gasol has the 2 most recent rings.

But you have a point if we get technical.

Ewing - Jamaica
Olajuwon - Nigeria
Wilkins - France
Nash - Canada
Ginobili - Argentina
Gasol - Spain
Nowitzki - Germany

That is quite a team, if their primes were to coincide

[QUOTE=R4E]I chose not to engage you further, creepingdeath - not for lack of respecting the way you see the game or your use statistics to support your arguments - which is admirable by the way...

In 2 posts you have exacerbated a tactic about describing me as self-revealing my ignorance. And if I am truly ignorant? I did not think you wanted to see a response from me. I honestly thought you were grandstanding to soothe Dirk apologists. It is all good...

:cheers:[/QUOTE]
No harm done, but consider this: The usual strategy of haters on ISH (may that be a Kobe hater, a Lebron hater or a Dirk hater) is to troll around in a thread, post one-liners & diss on a player.

But there's an even more aggravating kind of troll: the sophisticated one. Those self-righteous haters taunt us with longer posts, trying to appeal as a credible person with actual arguments for a change. So when you react to such posts, bring up your own criterion and really put your heart into a post writing long paragraphs, you'll get ignored again. Until another thread with the same agenda pops up... Picture-perfect example of this: Showtime.

And I'm sorry, but I just can't accept it if someone's claiming that Dirk has never had any playoff success, doesn't show up in the clutch, is a choker, inferior to a guy like Pau Gasol etc.

Happens every year

The guys that have one as inarguable first options in the 2000's:

Shaq
Duncan
Kobe

That's it.

So to say Dirk doesn't have the will to win is questionable at best since you could point to the list above and claim the same thing about every other player in the league. Is Dirk as good as those three historically? Absolutely not. But neither is anyone else. These are 3 of the top 10 players of all time.

Think about that. OF ALL TIME. Think of the thousands of players that have come in and out of the NBA. Just because Dirk doesn't stack up to those three doesn't mean that should be held against him.

To use Dirk's series against Denver as a negative is pure stupidity. Use his Warriors series if anything. That's really the only series you could claim as a truly poor performance (even then he averaged 20...on awful percentages but still averaged 20...just saying). Maybe the finals against the Heat but even then Dirk hit a potential game winner over Shaq just to have Wade get bailed out on the other end.

You can use subjective ideas like "will" and "toughness" and whatever else you want to claim he doesn't have. The stats will negate all of that. How many players have sniffed a Finals series? He lost. Yeah, it sucks for him and his fans. But he made it further as the leader of a team then 99.9% of the NBA does. Think about that.

He's a tremendous player. I wouldn't say top 25 all time. He can get there, but he's absolutely top 40. First ballot Hall of Famer without a question. Instead of just talking about whether or not KG would toss him around a court (proven to be false) or whether someone like Bowen could shut him down (also false) why can't you just see that he is an all time great and respect him as such. You don't have to like the way he plays but the stuff you are pulling out is flat out preposterous.

By the way, this whole post was directed at R4E.

Before anyone asks, I'm a Wizards fan...I just appreciate good basketball since I so rarely get to see it.

[QUOTE=ACCBaller1403]The guys that have one as inarguable first options in the 2000's:

Shaq
Duncan
Kobe

That's it.

So to say Dirk doesn't have the will to win is questionable at best since you could point to the list above and claim the same thing about every other player in the league. Is Dirk as good as those three historically? Absolutely not. But neither is anyone else. These are 3 of the top 10 players of all time.

Think about that. OF ALL TIME. Think of the thousands of players that have come in and out of the NBA. Just because Dirk doesn't stack up to those three doesn't mean that should be held against him.

To use Dirk's series against Denver as a negative is pure stupidity. Use his Warriors series if anything. That's really the only series you could claim as a truly poor performance (even then he averaged 20...on awful percentages but still average 20...just saying). Maybe the finals against the Heat but even then Dirk hit a potential game winner over Shaq just to have Wade get bailed out on the other end.

You can use subjective ideas like "will" and "toughness" and whatever else you want to claim he doesn't have. The stats will negate all of that. How many players have sniffed a Finals series? He lost. Yeah, it sucks for him and his fans. But he made it further as the leader of a team then 99.9% of the NBA does. Think about that.

He's a tremendous player. I wouldn't say top 25 all time. He can get there, but he's absolutely top 40. First ballot Hall of Famer without a question. Instead of just talking about whether or not KG would toss him around a court (proven to be false) or whether someone like Bowen could shut him down (also false) why can't you just see that he is an all time great and respect him as such. You don't have to like the way he plays but the stuff you are pulling out is flat out preposterous.

By the way, this whole post was directed at RE4.

Before anyone asks, I'm a Wizards fan...I just appreciate good basketball since I so rarely get to see it.[/QUOTE]

Wow, great post. Tooks some words right out of my mouth :applause:

[QUOTE=R4E]Pau Gasol has the 2 most recent rings.[/QUOTE]

So Darko is better than Ewing, Malone, Barkley, Kemp, and Dirk.

[QUOTE=R.I.P.]So Darko is better than Ewing, Malone, Barkley, Kemp, and Dirk.[/QUOTE]

Absolutely not.

What I meant to say is that Pau Gasol, with his filthy nuanced NBA game and skillset, is the greatest [I][B]european[/B][/I] basketball player to ever toil in the NBA.

What about that?!

And that includes Parker, Ginobili, Petrovic, Vujacic, Divac, etc

[QUOTE=ACCBaller1403]He's a tremendous player. I wouldn't say top 25 all time. He can get there, but he's absolutely top 40. First ballot Hall of Famer without a question. Instead of just talking about whether or not KG would toss him around a court (proven to be false) or whether someone like Bowen could shut him down (also false) why can't you just see that he is an all time great and respect him as such. You don't have to like the way he plays but the stuff you are pulling out is flat out preposterous.

By the way, this whole post was directed at R4E.[/QUOTE]

Good post. Thanx. That does not mean that I agree.

In terms of the possibilities of winning an NBA championship? I dont think Dirk is a true franchise player. That is not to say that Dirk is not a highly skilled piece of a chamionship puzzle, however. I just dont believe that Dirk is [B]the[/B] guy...[I]that[/I] guy a franchise builds around. The Mavericks designated the wrong player if their intent was to win championships. - Now...if Cuban just wanted to show and to fill the house nightly? And had no real intention of winning a ring(s)? Or would bindly luck into a championship ring if the stars aligned just right? Dirk N is the perfect man for that job. An imposter franchise player....a thinly veiled fraud of a faux dominant statistics amassing regular season marvel. That is how I see Dirk. If an Eastern team is lucky enough to draw Dirk and the Mavs in the NBA Finals??? They are going to be secretly getting their ring sized before tipoff of game 1.

I will go further and say if Dirk does get a ring? Dirk is going to have to latch onto a real franchise player as a "teammate" to get that championship ring.

[QUOTE=R4E]
I will go further and say if Dirk does get a ring? Dirk is going to have to latch onto a real franchise player as a "teammate" to get that championship ring.[/QUOTE]
What if he wins a ring as the #1 option within the next 4 years with the current squad (and maybe complementary trades)?