wade and it is even not close
iverson scored lots of points but he also shoot too many times with poor field goal percentage
wade is just way better all around player than iverson
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wade and it is even not close
iverson scored lots of points but he also shoot too many times with poor field goal percentage
wade is just way better all around player than iverson
It's clear there are a bunch of tards and advanced stat whores in here that never truly watched Iverson. So tell me how this sits for you. The mighty Wade led his team to a 15-67 record the year after winning the championship. That's one of the worst regular season finishes of all time. Sure he was injured for about 30 games but nonetheless he didn't carry sh**. Iverson had a team of defensive minded players centered around him that were no slouches for sure but Iverson flat out carried the Sixers a lot of times. The worst record Iverson ever mustered was 22 wins in his rookie season. Which jumped to 31 the next and 50 the one after that one.
Those saying Iverson failed to win a ring while D Wade won one listen up. Wade... put up one of the best finals performances of all time. Nobody can take that away from him. Didn't he averaged like 17 free throws a game in that series though? It was a VERY controversial series and looked borderline rigged at times.
Iverson faced the Laker dynasty at their Kobe and Shaq prime and to educate those who were too young to watch it... the Lakers had swept the playoffs until that point. Iverson flat out crushed Kobe, Tyrone Lou and Fisher. Anyone who tried to guard Iverson. Most experts and even Lakers players were expecting and claiming a sweep. Want to know what really happened?
Lakers open the game on a 21-9 run and Iverson responds by scoring 30 first half points. In the 3rd quarter Iverson lead the Sixers to a 15 point lead. The Lakers fight back with a superb 4th quarter dominated by Shaq who had 18 in the quarter. Iverson takes over in the last 2 minutes of overtime and scores 7 points to give the Sixers a game one victory. True warrior spirit. The Lakers were a monster crushing anyone in their path and little Allen Iverson who played against near prime Kobe and prime Shaq.. willed the Sixers.
The Lakers won the next 4 to win the series in 5 but I doubt any team in the history of the league besides maybe Jordan's Bulls could have beaten the Kobe and Shaq Lakers.
It's funny that in all these threads.. the only 2 remotely logical posters that stood out were GOBB and Rodman (sorry if I missed anyone). To see about 30 other morons have no clue what they are talking about is sad. It's the new generation of fans from the last 5 years. Never watch a player or even study tape/footage... go look up advanced stats on Basketball Reference.. and make sweeping statements or present things as law.
Reality is... there is a use for volume scorers. I will post the breakdown if you want but recently there was a huge advanced stats scoring breakdown that proved that some teams NEED a volume scorer more than an efficient one. They swapped Iverson for current Durant.. and the Sixers were projected for 10-15 less wins. Not everything is black and white.
Btw those saying Wade is a better shooter from anywhere on the floor are full of sh**. Wade and Lebron shoot a higher percentage than Kobe from midrange and almost equal outside but who would really say they have a better shooting touch outside than Kobe?? Same concept. Numbers don't tell a full story. Iverson's shot selection was poor but Iverson was a pretty top notch midrange shooter when he was open, something you definitely cannot say about Wade.
Iverson game 1 of the NBA finals in 01'. 48 points.
[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=79WSHpMU894[/url]
Shaq: "Iverson is hands down the best pound for pound player of all time".
[QUOTE=Clippersfan86]Um no dude.. just no. I didn't say only Wade got the treatment. I'm saying this era in general.. is MUCH different than 2001. Refs call every fu**ing bump a foul now even in playoff games. Reckless or not.. Iverson played in a much rougher era. Just like Jordan played in the toughest era of all time it DOES make a difference in production obviously. Do you know how good of paint enforcers/defenders prime Shaq, Mutombo, Ben Wallace and Theo Ratliff were? Imagine 4-5 Dwight Howard caliber bigs in the league that are allowed to be more physical with you?[/QUOTE]
After the rule changes, with an out of his prime Iverson was still putting up 26/7 playing alongside Melo. I shudder to think what Iverson would do if he was in his prime in this soft era :eek:
[QUOTE=Clippersfan86]It's clear there are a bunch of tards and advanced stat whores in here that never truly watched Iverson. So tell me how this sits for you. The mighty Wade led his team to a 15-67 record the year after winning the championship. That's one of the worst regular season finishes of all time. Sure he was injured for about 30 games but nonetheless he didn't carry sh**. Iverson had a team of defensive minded players centered around him that were no slouches for sure but Iverson flat out carried the Sixers a lot of times. The worst record Iverson ever mustered was 22 wins in his rookie season. Which jumped to 31 the next and 50 the one after that one.
Those saying Iverson failed to win a ring while D Wade won one listen up. Wade... put up one of the best finals performances of all time. Nobody can take that away from him. Didn't he averaged like 17 free throws a game in that series though? It was a VERY controversial series and looked borderline rigged at times.
Iverson faced the Laker dynasty at their Kobe and Shaq prime and to educate those who were too young to watch it... the Lakers had swept the playoffs until that point. Iverson flat out crushed Kobe, Tyrone Lou and Fisher. Anyone who tried to guard Iverson. Most experts and even Lakers players were expecting and claiming a sweep. Want to know what really happened?
Lakers open the game on a 21-9 run and Iverson responds by scoring 30 first half points. In the 3rd quarter Iverson lead the Sixers to a 15 point lead. The Lakers fight back with a superb 4th quarter dominated by Shaq who had 18 in the quarter. Iverson takes over in the last 2 minutes of overtime and scores 7 points to give the Sixers a game one victory. True warrior spirit. The Lakers were a monster crushing anyone in their path and little Allen Iverson who played against near prime Kobe and prime Shaq.. willed the Sixers.
The Lakers won the next 4 to win the series in 5 but I doubt any team in the history of the league besides maybe Jordan's Bulls could have beaten the Kobe and Shaq Lakers.
It's funny that in all these threads.. the only 2 remotely logical posters that stood out were GOBB and Rodman (sorry if I missed anyone). To see about 30 other morons have no clue what they are talking about is sad. It's the new generation of fans from the last 5 years. Never watch a player or even study tape/footage... go look up advanced stats on Basketball Reference.. and make sweeping statements or present things as law.
Reality is... there is a use for volume scorers. I will post the breakdown if you want but recently there was a huge advanced stats scoring breakdown that proved that some teams NEED a volume scorer more than an efficient one. They swapped Iverson for current Durant.. and the Sixers were projected for 10-15 less wins. Not everything is black and white.[/QUOTE]
Kind of funny that the only posters you call "remotely logical" are the ones who agree with you, and the rest of us are morons. And if you're going to make anti-Wade arguments, at least put a little effort into them.
Wade played the entire 08 season in need of two surgeries. He didn't dunk that year-- even on breakaways, he would do finger-rolls. He was widely advised to shut down for the season by December when it became clear that the Heat were not going to the playoffs, but he continued to play because he felt an obligation to his teammates and the fans. And that is also the only year in his career that he missed the playoffs.
[QUOTE=Clippersfan86]It's clear there are a bunch of tards and advanced stat whores in here that never truly watched Iverson. So tell me how this sits for you. The mighty Wade led his team to a 15-67 record the year after winning the championship. That's one of the worst regular season finishes of all time. Sure he was injured for about 30 games but nonetheless he didn't carry sh**. Iverson had a team of defensive minded players centered around him that were no slouches for sure but Iverson flat out carried the Sixers a lot of times. The worst record Iverson ever mustered was 22 wins in his rookie season. Which jumped to 31 the next and 50 the one after that one.
Those saying Iverson failed to win a ring while D Wade won one listen up. Wade... put up one of the best finals performances of all time. Nobody can take that away from him. Didn't he averaged like 17 free throws a game in that series though? It was a VERY controversial series and looked borderline rigged at times.
Iverson faced the Laker dynasty at their Kobe and Shaq prime and to educate those who were too young to watch it... the Lakers had swept the playoffs until that point. Iverson flat out crushed Kobe, Tyrone Lou and Fisher. Anyone who tried to guard Iverson. Most experts and even Lakers players were expecting and claiming a sweep. Want to know what really happened?
Lakers open the game on a 21-9 run and Iverson responds by scoring 30 first half points. In the 3rd quarter Iverson lead the Sixers to a 15 point lead. The Lakers fight back with a superb 4th quarter dominated by Shaq who had 18 in the quarter. Iverson takes over in the last 2 minutes of overtime and scores 7 points to give the Sixers a game one victory. True warrior spirit. The Lakers were a monster crushing anyone in their path and little Allen Iverson who played against near prime Kobe and prime Shaq.. willed the Sixers.
The Lakers won the next 4 to win the series in 5 but I doubt any team in the history of the league besides maybe Jordan's Bulls could have beaten the Kobe and Shaq Lakers.
It's funny that in all these threads.. the only 2 remotely logical posters that stood out were GOBB and Rodman (sorry if I missed anyone). To see about 30 other morons have no clue what they are talking about is sad. It's the new generation of fans from the last 5 years. Never watch a player or even study tape/footage... go look up advanced stats on Basketball Reference.. and make sweeping statements or present things as law.
Reality is... there is a use for volume scorers. I will post the breakdown if you want but recently there was a huge advanced stats scoring breakdown that proved that some teams NEED a volume scorer more than an efficient one. They swapped Iverson for current Durant.. and the Sixers were projected for 10-15 less wins. Not everything is black and white.[/QUOTE]
No one is wrong to say Wade is better than Iverson or Iverson is better than Wade. It's all opinion. Some people have made some good points for both players and just because someone thinks the opposite doesn't mean they're morons.
[QUOTE=Mach_3]After the rule changes, with an out of his prime Iverson was still putting up 26/7 playing alongside Melo. I shudder to think what Iverson would do if he was in his prime in this soft era :eek:[/QUOTE]
:cheers:
[QUOTE=colorz]No one is wrong to say Wade is better than Iverson or Iverson is better than Wade. It's all opinion. Some people have made some good points for both players and just because someone thinks the opposite doesn't mean they're morons.[/QUOTE]
I suppose ignorant would be more appropriate than morons. I understand different opinions but anyone that calls AI overrated or says Wade is light years better DID NOT watch prime Iverson. I'm 100 percent sure of that. As many others have said Wade is a lot like Iverson. Version 2.0 isn't always better in every way than the original. I have no problem with people saying Wade. What I do have a problem with is people slandering Iverson with things like "He's overrated".. "He's a glorified chucker" when it's clear as day they NEVER watched Iverson.
It pisses me off that so many pseudo fans of the NBA run around on these forums. Guys that enjoy an occasional debate or love advanced stats but don't truly appreciate, study or respect this amazing, historic sport.
[QUOTE=Mach_3]After the rule changes, with an out of his prime Iverson was still putting up 26/7 playing alongside Melo. I shudder to think what Iverson would do if he was in his prime in this soft era :eek:[/QUOTE]
Exactly. I have 0 doubt in my mind that prime Iverson now in this touch foul era.. would average 35-40 ppg at least for one season. I also know for a fact all the regular fouls he took from guys like Shaq putting him on his ass would be called flagrants now.
Well I cant agree that Iverson is the better scorer. He apparently takes more shots than Wade and he had like 39-41% from the field...
[QUOTE=Kiddlovesnets]Well I cant agree that Iverson is the better scorer. He apparently takes more shots than Wade and he had like 39-41% from the field...[/QUOTE]
Would you agree with the statement that prime Kobe was the best SG in the league and for a stretch of 2-3 seasons the best player in the game? Despite Lebron, Wade and maybe 3-4 other players being more EFFICIENT scorers? Iverson wasn't the most efficient scorer but even the shooting percentages are deceiving. He actually had a great midrange touch and was unstoppable getting to the rim. What butchered his shooting percentages were double teams and getting hammered at the rim, poor shot selection. His actual shooting touch on a jumper blows away current Wade.
Iverson was a MUCH more dependable and explosive scorer than Wade.
[QUOTE=Samurai Swoosh]This just isn't true ...
With Carmelo Anthony
2006 - 2007 (50 games)
25 ppg, 7 apg, 3 rpg, FG 45%
2007 - 2008 (82 games)
26 ppg, 7 apg, 3 rpg, FG 46%
That's a system player?
And to be fair ... when he was winning scoring titles left and right as a 5'11 SG in the NBA ... he was still playing in the tough, physical defensive era.
That all changed in 2005 / 2006 -ish ... but you get the point.
And that's no knock on my boy Wade, cause he's right there with him as it stands right now. But the defense Wade faces aren't near as physical as they were pre 2005.
Iverson mashed on those defenses. See how his FG% was alot more comprable to Rose, Kobe, Carter, McGrady, Wade in 2006, 2007, and 2008 AT [B]THE TWIGHLIGHT of his career? It's a) because of the rule changes and b) because he finally was playing with a capable scorer beside him for once.[/B]
Lets us also not forget that in 2003 and 2004, on Team USA ... surrounded by top tier talent, and even though the USA committee was reluctant to put him on the team because the baggage he carried and what he represented with his looks ... Iverson meshed with all-stars in a competitive setting ... AND WAS THE BEST PLAYER ON THE USA TEAM BOTH YEARS.
Yes, he was the best and most consistent player on the 2004 Olympic Team ... which had everyone's favorite overrated PF, Tim Duncan ... who absolutely blew in the Olympics.[/QUOTE]
very good points for those who never really know shitz about basketball
[QUOTE=colorz]No one is wrong to say Wade is better than Iverson or Iverson is better than Wade. It's all opinion. Some people have made some good points for both players and just because someone thinks the opposite doesn't mean they're morons.[/QUOTE]
somehow agree with u, but to some say wade is WAY better than Iverson is purely idiotic
Hey good post Samurai. I missed it.. glad dude above me quoted it. I basically said something similar about MUCH tougher defenses and less reffing in Iverson's prime. With as injury prone as Wade is.. he probably would of had a career ending injury dealing with the elite defenders of the early 00's.
[QUOTE=Clippersfan86]I suppose ignorant would be more appropriate than morons. I understand different opinions but anyone that calls AI overrated or says Wade is light years better DID NOT watch prime Iverson. I'm 100 percent sure of that. As many others have said Wade is a lot like Iverson. Version 2.0 isn't always better in every way than the original. I have no problem with people saying Wade. What I do have a problem with is people slandering Iverson with things like "He's overrated".. "He's a glorified chucker" when it's clear as day they NEVER watched Iverson.
It pisses me off that so many pseudo fans of the NBA run around on these forums. Guys that enjoy an occasional debate or love advanced stats but don't truly appreciate, study or respect this amazing, historic sport.[/QUOTE]
Stop making assumptions about people who disagree with you. I began watching basketball in 1980. The first game I ever saw was Game 7 of the 1980 NBA Finals. Furthermore, I'm originally from outside of Philly, and I watched the Sixers just about every time they were on TV. I know exactly who Iverson is and is not.
And you're missing half of the equation when it comes to Wade. He is a rich man's Iverson... combined with a poor man's Jordan. A player who simultaneously plays below the defense and above the rim. He combines Iverson's ability to create off the bounce and draw contact with Jordan's ruthless efficiency, defense, and all-around game (the poor man's version of it).
I have watched both of these players hundreds of times-- probably Iverson more than Wade actually, since I only lived in Florida for a year--, and I am VERY comfortable telling you that Wade since 04-05 has been better than AI ever was.
[QUOTE=jrong]Stop making assumptions about people who disagree with you. I began watching basketball in 1980. The first game I ever saw was Game 7 of the 1980 NBA Finals. Furthermore, I'm originally from outside of Philly, and I watched the Sixers just about every time they were on TV. I know exactly who Iverson is and is not.
And you're missing half of the equation when it comes to Wade. He is a rich man's Iverson... combined with a poor man's Jordan. A player who simultaneously plays below the defense and above the rim. He combines Iverson's ability to create off the bounce and draw contact with Jordan's ruthless efficiency, defense, and all-around game (the poor man's version of it).
I have watched both of these players hundreds of times-- probably Iverson more than Wade actually, since I only lived in Florida for a year--, and I am VERY comfortable telling you that Wade since 04-05 has been better than AI ever was.[/QUOTE]
Did I call you by name? Tons of ignorant people in this thread posting about sh** they never watched. Your OPINION that Wade is better doesn't sway me one way or the other nor have I complained about that opinion by other people. What I don't like is the ignorant statements about how Wade was gobs better because it's not true no matter what you THINK. To say one is better is subjective.... but to say one is WAY better is a gross exaggeration considering Iverson had more overall team success and nearly identical prime stats in a MUCH tougher, more physical era.
They are on the same tier and I'm sure 90 percent of legit basketball fans could agree with that. To claim Wade is a tier above Iverson overall.. prime for prime is a false statement.
[QUOTE=jrong]Stop making assumptions about people who disagree with you. I began watching basketball in 1980. The first game I ever saw was Game 7 of the 1980 NBA Finals. Furthermore, I'm originally from outside of Philly, and I watched the Sixers just about every time they were on TV. I know exactly who Iverson is and is not.
And you're missing half of the equation when it comes to Wade. He is a rich man's Iverson... combined with a poor man's Jordan. A player who simultaneously plays below the defense and above the rim. He combines Iverson's ability to create off the bounce and draw contact with Jordan's ruthless efficiency, defense, and all-around game (the poor man's version of it).
I have watched both of these players hundreds of times-- probably Iverson more than Wade actually, since I only lived in Florida for a year--, and I am VERY comfortable telling you that Wade since [B]04-05[/B] has been better than AI ever was.[/QUOTE]
wade with new rulez is way better than AI during the tougher defense era, got ur point
[QUOTE=Shih508]wade with new rulez is way better than AI during the tougher defense era, got ur point[/QUOTE]
Lol I do find it funny that so many people here are disregarding the eras. It's exactly why very few call Bill Russell or Wilt the greatest player of all time. Jordan played against the best who have played the game. In the most physical era of all time. Against the best defenders of all time. In the era where refs let players play the most without bogus calls. Iverson came at the tail end of Jordan's Bulls career. Jordan retired after the 98 ring.. and AI was a rookie in 96. Iverson's prime of 00-01 was still in an elite league.
These teams would absolutely manhandle the teams in this era.
99-01 Blazers
00-03 Lakers
01-04 Kings
00-03 Sixers
99-05 Spurs
01-05 Pistons
The era-bias here is astounding. You always hear statements thrown around about how one era is tougher or more competitive than another, which unless you can quatify that statistically, is based upon nothing more than nostalgic memory. Today's players have to contend with zones, double-teaming off-the-ball, and the only form of illegal defense that exists is defensive three-seconds. The rule changes work against them just as much as they supposedly work for them.
[QUOTE=jrong]The era-bias here is astounding. You always hear statements thrown around about how one era is tougher or more competitive than another, which unless you can quatify that statistically, is based upon nothing more than nostalgic memory. Today's players have to contend with zones, double-teaming off-the-ball, and the only form of illegal defense that exists is defensive three-seconds. The rule changes work against them just as much as they supposedly work for them.[/QUOTE]
No dude just no. Not everything can be quantified. Sometimes things just are. Anyone who's been a long time fan of basketball would tell you not all eras are created equally. You honestly believe Wilt would of put up 40 and 30 or w/e in this era? Shaq, David Robinson, Mutombo, Mourning, Ben Wallace era??? FU** NO. Sure now players can zone up but you also aren't allowed to touch anyone, hand check or any of that. Not to mention the actual physicality and volume of defense stoppers have plummeted. You seem to be in denial about this.
[QUOTE=Clippersfan86]No dude just no. Not everything can be quantified. Sometimes things just are. Anyone who's been a long time fan of basketball would tell you not all eras are created equally. You honestly believe Wilt would of put up 40 and 30 or w/e in this era? Shaq, David Robinson, Mutombo, Mourning, Ben Wallace era??? FU** NO. Sure now players can zone up but you also aren't allowed to touch anyone, hand check or any of that. Not to mention the actual physicality and volume of defense stoppers have plummeted. You seem to be in denial about this.[/QUOTE]
And they can be double-teamed off the ball! MJ is the GOAT, but I do wonder what 80s and 90s defenses would have done if they couldn't double LeBron James off-the-ball.
Throw stats out the window, Wade is better. He's better offensively, imo, but what's not debatable is that he's a lot better defensively, and yes, I think an efficient scorer like Wade is much easier to build around. He has a championship ring, a legendary playoff run/finals series, and he's playing in the conference finals for the 3rd time.
[QUOTE=jrong]The era-bias here is astounding. You always hear statements thrown around about how one era is tougher or more competitive than another, which unless you can quatify that statistically, is based upon nothing more than nostalgic memory. Today's players have to contend with zones, double-teaming off-the-ball, and the only form of illegal defense that exists is defensive three-seconds. The rule changes work against them just as much as they supposedly work for them.[/QUOTE]
Somewhat true.
However, not acknowledging how much easier perimeter players have it right now compared to the 90s or the early part of this 00's is just silly.
I'd take Wade over Iverson rather easily, but prime Iverson in this league since 05 would be putting up 35 a game if wanted to on much better efficiency.
Just look at what Iverson did in 06.
33 a game on 45% shooting.....54% true shooting.
Its not random that Iverson had his best scoring year in the same year the NBA really went overboard on the new rules.
[QUOTE=ShaqAttack3234]Throw stats out the window, Wade is better. He's better offensively, imo, but what's not debatable is that he's a lot better defensively, and yes, I think an efficient scorer like Wade is much easier to build around. He has a championship ring, a legendary playoff run/finals series, and he's playing in the conference finals for the 3rd time.[/QUOTE]
Pretty much this.
[QUOTE=jrong]The era-bias here is astounding. You always hear statements thrown around about how one era is tougher or more competitive than another, which unless you can quatify that statistically, is based upon nothing more than nostalgic memory. Today's players have to contend with zones, double-teaming off-the-ball, and the only form of illegal defense that exists is defensive three-seconds. The rule changes work against them just as much as they supposedly work for them.[/QUOTE]
look at AI and Kobe stats, the two best scorer from 98-06, it can be quantified . Look the avg a team score compare the #s. U ARE IGNORANT! twilight AI had put up better # than Prime AI.
i'm gonna make conclusion for this thread, BIGSMOKE and Jrong are two biggest pretenders acting like they've watched AI in their prime.
I respect every other ppl's opinions here.
[QUOTE=DMAVS41]Somewhat true.
However, not acknowledging how much easier perimeter players have it right now compared to the 90s or the early part of this 00's is just silly.
I'd take Wade over Iverson rather easily, but prime Iverson in this league since 05 would be putting up 35 a game if wanted to on much better efficiency.
Just look at what Iverson did in 06.
33 a game on 45% shooting.....54% true shooting.
Its not random that Iverson had his best scoring year in the same year the NBA really went overboard on the new rules.[/QUOTE]
Very good and logical points. I said from the beginning Wade is the better all around player.. I just feel the need to defend Iverson from the misinformed posters making ignorant comments about him. The era absolutely has to do with it. Wing players are protected in this era. Imagine how many "hard" fouls would be flagrant fouls that Iverson took if he played now? Teams wouldn't be allowed to rough him up anymore.
[QUOTE=Clippersfan86]Very good and logical points. I said from the beginning Wade is the better all around player.. I just feel the need to defend Iverson from the misinformed posters making ignorant comments about him. The era absolutely has to do with it. Wing players are protected in this era. Imagine how many "hard" fouls would be flagrant fouls that Iverson took if he played now? Teams wouldn't be allowed to rough him up anymore.[/QUOTE]
Just look at Iverson's two best years getting to the ft line.
05 and 06. Shocking....LOL
Iverson was not as good of a player those years as he was earlier in his prime.
You'd definitely see Iverson bump up his scoring efficiency because it would be easier to get to the ft line and rim since the start of the 05 season.
I don't know how anyone can debate that. The NBA specifically changed the rules to make it easier on perimeter players.
Its just a fact.
[QUOTE=DMAVS41]Just look at Iverson's two best years getting to the ft line.
05 and 06. Shocking....LOL
Iverson was not as good of a player those years as he was earlier in his prime.
You'd definitely see Iverson bump up his scoring efficiency because it would be easier to get to the ft line and rim since the start of the 05 season.
I don't know how anyone can debate that. The NBA specifically changed the rules to make it easier on perimeter players.
Its just a fact.[/QUOTE]
Even freaking league officials have flat out said they changed the rules to help make the league more exciting and cut down on hard fouls, which will prevent injuries. Like you said it's a fact.
[QUOTE=Shih508]i'm gonna make conclusion for this thread, BIGSMOKE and Jrong are two biggest pretenders acting like they've watched AI in their prime.
I respect every other ppl's opinions here.[/QUOTE]
Whatever you say, kid. I watched the Sixers from the days of Moses Malone, Dr. J., Andrew Toney, Bobby Caldwell, Mo Cheeks though the years of Barkley, Hersey Hawkins, Johnny Dawkins, Ron Anderson to the years of Iverson, Stackhouse, Larry Hughes, Toni Kukoc, etc. Last decade, I moved around a lot, so I have to admit that I'm not as acquainted with the Igudoala years, but I'm catching up on them now. Jrue Holiday is a player.
So you were saying, little boy?
[QUOTE=jrong]Whatever you say, kid. I watched the Sixers from the days of Moses Malone, Dr. J., Andrew Toney, Bobby Caldwell, Mo Cheeks though the years of Barkley, Hersey Hawkins, Johnny Dawkins, Ron Anderson to the years of Iverson, Stackhouse, Larry Hughes, Toni Kukoc, etc. Last decade, I moved around a lot, so I have to admit that I'm not as acquainted with the Igudoala years, but I'm catching up on them now. Jrue Holiday is a player.
So you were saying, little boy?[/QUOTE]
ok maybe u are just dumb who can't see the fact that everyone's stating here.
if my team needs a dominant scorer... AI is the guy to go
if i have a somehow balanced team, i'd take Wade in a heartbeat
neither of them is way better than the other
[QUOTE=jrong]Whatever you say, kid. I watched the Sixers from the days of Moses Malone, Dr. J., Andrew Toney, Bobby Caldwell, Mo Cheeks though the years of Barkley, Hersey Hawkins, Johnny Dawkins, Ron Anderson to the years of Iverson, Stackhouse, Larry Hughes, Toni Kukoc, etc. Last decade, I moved around a lot, so I have to admit that I'm as acquainted with the Igudoala years, but I'm catching up on them now. Jrue Holiday is a player.
So you were saying, little boy?[/QUOTE]
Then you're like the 1 in 1000 Bulls fans that think Jordan was overrated except it's for the Sixers. For a professed Sixers fan to make comments that suggest AI is overrated or a chucker, nothing more or w/e else.. it's the opposite of what most Sixers fans would say. Iverson lead you guys back to being an elite team. Wade is a better all around player but to say he's light years better and it's not close doesn't sound like the words of a Sixers fan. Especially if you can't admit AI was a better, more deadly scorer.
[QUOTE=DMAVS41]Just look at Iverson's two best years getting to the ft line.
05 and 06. Shocking....LOL
Iverson was not as good of a player those years as he was earlier in his prime.
You'd definitely see Iverson bump up his scoring efficiency because it would be easier to get to the ft line and rim since the start of the 05 season.
I don't know how anyone can debate that. The NBA specifically changed the rules to make it easier on perimeter players.
Its just a fact.[/QUOTE]
Well, he also switched to point guard in '05, prior to that he played shooting guard and played off the ball more, though I do pretty much agree with your point.
While Wade has had most of his team success with Shaq and now Lebron/Bosh, I think it's a positive that he can play with both a dominant low post player and then one of the most ball dominant perimeter players as well as another elite offensive power forward. I don't think Iverson would fit as well in those situations and that's key, imo. People talk about help all the time, but not every superstar can fit in well alongside other stars which is overlooked so much when evaluating players and using championships. That's one reason why it's so hard to win championships, you usually need an elite player and then another star or 2 to go along with them, but you need your star to be productive without taking away from his star teammate(s).
And we've seen that Wade can put a team on his back and produce at an elite level with opposing defenses only worrying about him(2009 and 2010).
[QUOTE=ShaqAttack3234]Well, he also switched to point guard in '05, prior to that he played shooting guard and played off the ball more, though I do pretty much agree with your point.
While Wade has had most of his team success with Shaq and now Lebron/Bosh, I think it's a positive that he can play with both a dominant low post player and then one of the most ball dominant perimeter players as well as another elite offensive power forward. I don't think Iverson would fit as well in those situations and that's key, imo. People talk about help all the time, but not every superstar can fit in well alongside other stars which is overlooked so much when evaluating players and using championships. That's one reason why it's so hard to win championships, you usually need an elite player and then another star or 2 to go along with them, but you need your star to be productive without taking away from his star teammate(s).
And we've seen that Wade can put a team on his back and produce at an elite level with opposing defenses only worrying about him(2009 and 2010).[/QUOTE]
Totally agree. I'd take Wade over Iverson for a number of reasons. Defense and team play being two of the biggest. I think Iverson is one of those rare breed of players that does not need a superstar next to him...in fact, he's worse off that way.
Iverson's best team would be like his 01 team but with a guy like ray allen or some versatile shooter/scorer that wouldn't need the ball in his hands a lot.
I was just pointing out the simple fact that perimeter scoring became easier in the NBA in the 05 season.
[QUOTE=Shih508]ok maybe u are just dumb who can't see the fact that everyone's stating here.
if my team needs a dominant scorer... AI is the guy to go
if i have a somehow balanced team, i'd take Wade in a heartbeat
neither of them is way better than the other[/QUOTE]
That's what my first post says lol. I take AI if I lack scorers.. I take Wade if I need an all around player who can mesh with any team.
[QUOTE=Shih508]
if my team needs a dominant scorer... AI is the guy to go
if i have a somehow balanced team, i'd take Wade in a heartbeat
neither of them is way better than the other[/QUOTE]
This is pretty much it, both players bring different things to the table.
[QUOTE=ShaqAttack3234]Well, he also switched to point guard in '05, prior to that he played shooting guard and played off the ball more, though I do pretty much agree with your point.
While Wade has had most of his team success with Shaq and now Lebron/Bosh, I think it's a positive that he can play with both a dominant low post player and then one of the most ball dominant perimeter players as well as another elite offensive power forward. I don't think Iverson would fit as well in those situations and that's key, imo. People talk about help all the time, but not every superstar can fit in well alongside other stars which is overlooked so much when evaluating players and using championships. That's one reason why it's so hard to win championships, you usually need an elite player and then another star or 2 to go along with them, but you need your star to be productive without taking away from his star teammate(s).
And we've seen that Wade can put a team on his back and produce at an elite level with opposing defenses only worrying about him([B]2009 and 2010[/B]).[/QUOTE]
2 first round exit making him better player than AI as the only main scoring threat in a team for this kind of situation?
But i do agree with u wade mash better with better players. It also shows how amazing AI's ability to carrying a team.
don't be so quick to call Iverson the better scorer. he averaged 26 points on 22 shots. Wade averages 25 points on 18 shots.
[QUOTE=Clippersfan86]Then you're like the 1 in 1000 Bulls fans that think Jordan was overrated except it's for the Sixers. For a professed Sixers fan to make comments that suggest AI is overrated or a chucker, nothing more or w/e else.. it's the opposite of what most Sixers fans would say. Iverson lead you guys back to being an elite team. Wade is a better all around player but to say he's light years better and it's not close doesn't sound like the words of a Sixers fan. Especially if you can't admit AI was a better, more deadly scorer.[/QUOTE]
To be honest, I give Larry Brown much more credit. And the Iverson years, to me at least, were a net-negative. He brought excitement and wins back and there was the trip to the Finals, but there were also the myriad off-the-court distractions, his inability to play with other talented players, the lack of player-development of other players, the way he held the franchise hostage until he was finally traded etc.
But, you are right, this would not be the most popular opinion in Philadelphia.