Should Cavs Pick Derrick Williams over Kyrie Irving?

[QUOTE=RedBlackAttack]I've watched your boy... Not that impressed. Kanter dominated the Nike Hoop Summit. He is tough to handle below the rim AND he has a nice touch from the outside.

F#ck all this sh!t about measurables. I'm sick of hearing about how tall a guy is and using that as the only basis for analysis.

Charles Barkley was listed at 6-foot-5, but I've stood next to him and he is probably closer to 6-foot-4.

He is one of the greatest power forwards to ever play the game. If he were coming out of Alabama this year, people would be mocking the idea of him playing PF in the NBA simply because of his height.

I judge what I see and Kanter looks, to me, like the best Euro player in this class. Whether he is 6-foot-10 or 7-foot or 6-foot-8... The guy can play.[/QUOTE]
Jonas dropped 37/19 against Kanter... and???

You don't care about that, right??

The guy's are of similar talents except Valanciunas is still growing while Kanter is the more finished prospect. That would be great if they were 22 or 23 but they are 19 years old. Jonas is the obvious pick and fits better with Irving anyway. I'm confident this will be the case when the draft rolls around.

[QUOTE=RedBlackAttack]That's what I'm trying to explain to people. OKC didn't turn around their franchise in one year.

It has been less than a year since James announced he was leaving town. It will be a few years before we fully recover from losing the guy that we built the entire franchise around.

There is no reason to 'feel sorry' for the Cavs or their fans.... Last night was a good night... Check that, a great night.

If we get two solid starters, we will be on our way.[/QUOTE]
It usually take about 3 years to rebuild in the draft before the team makes it to the playoffs. OKC 3 years. It took us 3 years when Lebron was drafted, ect. :confusedshrug: just haters

[QUOTE=PleezeBelieve]Jonas dropped 37/19 against Kanter... and???

You don't care about that, right??

The guy's are of similar talents except Valanciunas is still growing while Kanter is the more finished prospect. That would be great if they were 22 or 23 but they are 19 years old. Jonas is the obvious pick and fits better with Irving anyway. I'm confident this will be the case when the draft rolls around.[/QUOTE]
Listen, if the pick is Valanciunas, I'm not going to freak out. All that ANY of us have seen of the kid are some videos on Youtube. I have to have faith that the organization will make the right call. After they work out all of the possibilities and get a first-hand view of him, as well as getting a feel for his personality (which none of us have any idea about), they may feel that he is the guy... And I will be the first one to welcome him to Cleveland.

However, it is my opinion -- from what I've seen of the two -- that Kanter is the better player. Valanciunas looks VERY raw to me and Kanter has some real skill. But, if the franchise thinks otherwise, I will be at The Q cheering him on.

So... whatever.

[QUOTE=RedBlackAttack]Lastly, how many 7-footers do the Bulls have? One... Omar Asik.

Their starting center is listed as a whooping inch taller than Kanter. You are telling me that this inch makes you totally dismiss him as a center on a good team?[/QUOTE]
You really comparing Noah to Kanter defensively??

Seriously??

Yeah, I'm sure Kanter can shut the paint down and switch out on LeBron James like Noah can. :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

You draft pieces that fit your visions of winning championships, not just being competitive.

How hard is this to understand?

[QUOTE=PleezeBelieve]You really comparing Noah to Kanter defensively??

Seriously??

Yeah, I'm sure Kanter can shut the paint down and switch out on LeBron James like Noah can. :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

You draft pieces that fit your visions of winning championships, not just being competitive.

How hard is this to understand?[/QUOTE]
I'm not comparing Kanter to Noah in any aspect except for height, which is the only primer that you used in making a point that he can't play center in the NBA.

[QUOTE=RedBlackAttack]I'm not comparing Kanter to Noah in any aspect except for height, which is the only primer that you used in making a point that he can't play center in the NBA.[/QUOTE]
I also said he lacked mobility and length to make up for his lack of height.

[QUOTE=PleezeBelieve]I also said he lacked mobility and length to make up for his lack of height.[/QUOTE]
I just don't feel like you've seen enough of him to make such a definitive statement. We can talk intellectually about the college players in this draft, because we've had the opportunity to watch them for whole games and whole seasons.

We are relying on sporadic highlights and limited game film on these European guys. I haven't seen enough of Kanter to say exactly how athletic or mobile he is.

obvius agenda here, OIAD obviusly wnats irving in the twolves :oldlol: . sorry blud, Dan doesn't read ish

[QUOTE=KG215]Alec Burks isn't a point guard, the other two PG's of the draft that could be sitting there at #4 and wouldn't be an awful pick at that spot are Brandon Knight and Kemba Walker.



This argument is so empty because you're doing nothing but using speculation to make your point seem stronger.

"Those two guys could be better than Kyrie Irving"

"What if Kyrie Irving turns out he ain't sh!t and thsoe 3 guys I mention doing a great job"

Yeah, well, what if Kyrie Irving ends up being really good and every single guy you mentioned turns out to be "sh!t"?

See how easy it is to make such a stupid argument?[/QUOTE]


Just saying that's all and just throw some idea if they're gettig a PG but the cavs already have a bunch of G, too many. they need a spot for SF.

I rather they go with this Derrick Williams over Kyrie Irving

for 4th I would pick Jonas Valanciunas or Enes Kanter


Cavs already got Baron Davis and Ramon Sessions

Noah is a pretty long 6'10.

[QUOTE=DStebb716]Irving at number one, then convince Jazz to swap you 3-4 (add in another small piece) and land Williams.[/QUOTE]

This. Irving is legit, he's athletic and he'll be one of the best shooters in the league from day one. He almost reminds me of a more athletic Curry (Eddy obviously). Plus, you don't want to let a lame duck guy like Baron Davis or a journeyman like Sessions affect your high lottery pick, it's totally best player available when you're as torn down as Cleveland.

Williams would be a good fit, but I'd only take him if I was certain he would be much better than Kanter or someone. I think anyone would work well in Cleveland, they really don't have any definite keepers on their roster.

[QUOTE=PleezeBelieve]Dude you're not winning championships with a 6'10 Center who plays below the rim.

Sh*t is so frustrating. Many of you have no idea what you're talking about.[/QUOTE]


[QUOTE]Measuring in at 6’10 with shoes on and sporting a 7’1 wingspan...

his 260-pound frame afforded him a ton of success on the block. He’s not a great athlete by any standards, though he flashes some explosiveness from time to time, but uses his body as well as any player you’ll see on the high school level. He exceptionally good at using leverage, is extremely patient, won’t hesitate to initiate contact, and shows outstanding hands.
[/QUOTE]

[url]http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Enes-Kanter-5168/[/url]


He's not a legit 7 footer, but he's 6'10" with a 7'1" wingspan. Not freakish length by any stretch of the imagination but that's plenty of size and length to be an effective back to the basket scorer. However, he also has the ability to step out and shoot the mid-range jumper so he's not just a back to the basket player. He's shown range out to the college three point line. And this is just rumors and speculation, but I have read that Kanter might be closer to 6'11" now, in shoes, meaning he might measure closer to 6'10" in socks.

The more I see and read on Kanter the more I picture a slightly taller Carlos Boozer. I don't think Kanter is a full-time NBA PF but I do think he probably has a better back to the basket game than Boozer, so he can log more minutes in the pivot instead of PF if need be.

Unless you have found a way to get your hands on full game tapes of Valanciunas' Euroleague games then we're both doing the same thing that RBA alluded to. We're just basing our feelings towards the two players off of online scouting reports from different websites and highlight clips.

Also (and I'm not saying you're wrong) but do you have a link or something to prove Valanciunas had a 37/19 game on Enes Kanter? Because when I Googled it I couldn't find it. I did run across this, though...


[QUOTE]He was MVP of the U18 European Championship, even as he played against prospects a year older than him. In the semi-final game, he posted 32 points, 25 rebounds and two blocks in 39 minutes against the tournament champion Serbia team. The bronze medal game was even better. In 36 minutes, [B]Kanter scored 35 points on 16/22 shooting. He also grabbed 19 rebounds, stole three balls and blocked four shots against the Lithuanian team and big man prospect named Jonas Valanciunas.[/B] His overall tournament statistics were 18.6 points, 16.4 rebounds, 1.3 assists and 1.8 blocks.[/QUOTE]

[url]http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/post/_/id/6820/meet-enes-kanter[/url]

[QUOTE=GiveItToBurrito]This. Irving is legit, he's athletic and he'll be one of the best shooters in the league from day one. He almost reminds me of a more athletic Curry (Eddy obviously). Plus, you don't want to let a lame duck guy like Baron Davis or a journeyman like Sessions affect your high lottery pick, it's totally best player available when you're as torn down as Cleveland.

Williams would be a good fit, but I'd only take him if I was certain he would be much better than Kanter or someone. I think anyone would work well in Cleveland, they really don't have any definite keepers on their roster.[/QUOTE]

I don't know why people don't realize that Williams is a TWEENER. A very good one, but a TWEENER nevertheless. He is kinda undersized for 4 and probably have no more than average quickness for a 3.

Irving is the clear cut number 1. When you have the best pure point guard prospect since Chris Paul, you have to take him even if your team has a solid rotation of BDiddy/Sessions.

Putting this in words, Irving will be starting from day one. You can't hinder the development of a possibly superstar by benching him because BDiddy is a "veteran."

[QUOTE=Gundress]Just saying that's all and just throw some idea if they're gettig a PG but the cavs already have a bunch of G, too many. they need a spot for SF.

I rather they go with this Derrick Williams over Kyrie Irving

for 4th I would pick Jonas Valanciunas or Enes Kanter


Cavs already got Baron Davis and Ramon Sessions[/QUOTE]

First off, Derrick Williams is NOT a sure fire NBA SF. A quick Google search or reading his scouting profile on ESPN/DraftExpress will tell you as much. He's probably closer to an NBA PF than SF at this point.

The Cavs frontcourt rotation of Hickson/Varejao/Jamison/Hollins is much more solid at this point than the PG tandem of a 32 year old Baron Davis (who the Cavs have no interest in making a part of their future) and Ramon Sessions. You're clinically insane if you believe the Cavaliers are banking their future on a PG duo of Baron Davis and Ramon Sessions.

It should also be mentioned that the Cavs do have Antawn Jamison who can slide over and play SF.