Joakim Noah fined $50K for using anti-gay slur from bench during Heat-Bulls Game 3

so paying customers shud get fined also for instigating it
buying a ticket legally binds you to also act appropriately

Being a paying customer doesn't give you the right to act like an ***hole either, [U]assuming that the fan shouted something inappropriate.[/U] I can appreciate the whole 'I'm a customer paying your salary' argument, but there's something to be said for being decent as well. I've been to NBA games before, some fans act truly like F******k ***holes, and I guess because they're 'paying customers' and the whole 'my constitutional right of free speech' means they're free to be as much of a dick as humanly possible?

If the players are going to be subject to that much verbal abuse because of their proximity to courtside fans, then the NBA needs to do something to protect their players. You're talking high stakes, elite level sports competition with a TON on the line, emotions are at a fever pitch, and it's ok for fans to be as obscenely crude and asinine as they want because they paid for a ticket, and the players are supposed to switch off their emotions like they're robots? I'm not buying that one.

Note: I'm not saying all that in defense of Noah, he was wrong for saying it, but rowdy, obnoxious home fans jeering in an overboard fashion on opposing team players is a volatile situation. The table is being set for something to happen, and of course the media knows to zoom on on a player in the heat of a moment, hoping to catch something 'juicy' to make a huge issue out of it. Yeah I know, this is a part of sports for the home fans to jeer the opposition, but there's a point where people can cross the line, to where it becomes borderline abusive. I don't care if the fan paid or that the player is making millions, it's the principle of the matter.

On another note, where's the outcry from the gay community over this one, or are they:

1) Waiting for the NBA to act first, or

2) not making a big deal out of it because Joakim Noah isn't a highly visible figure like Kobe Bryant?

[QUOTE=DStebb716]The one where they are going against using gay slurs? Probably produced it at halftime to make sure he didn't get fined haha.[/QUOTE]
When the guy from the Suns came out, the article mentioned that the NBA was filming this the day before the Kobe incident. Just coincidence.

[QUOTE=PJR]They need to stop flashing the camera on these guys as they walk to the bench. It's bullsh*t. Sports are emotional, and derogatory comments and slurs will be thrown around from time to time. I'm not a Noah fan, but it sucks that he's about to walk into a media on-slaught for something that should be kept off camerra.[/QUOTE]

this.

[QUOTE=JMT]Flashing the camera :roll:

There's cameras all over the arena, capturing everything that goes on, all night long. If a player doesn't want to be shown doing something stupid, he can always refrain from doing something stupid.[/QUOTE]

A camera was deliberately trained right on Noah, at the perfect moment after he sat with 2 fouls, and got involved with the fan. I have to think it's a deliberate attempt to catch the player in a 'weak' moment, makes for juicy sensationalist headlines the next day. Why didn't they just keep the camera on the on-court action? Nope,keep it on Noah who's obviously pissed, and let's hope he says something we can blow up into a huge story tomorrow. Unfortunately for Noah, he obliged, though I imagine in the heat of the moment, the player likely isn't thinking that a camera has him in a close-up situation, waiting for an outburst.

He apologized to the league, the tv audience and the the fan he said the slur to personally. He should get a fine, and nothing more. Some of the ESPN talking heads are suggesting he should be suspended. Are they ****ing retarded (****)?

Don't care and don't think he should be fined. Screw ESPN for making a big deal out of it TMZ style

[QUOTE=Dragonyeuw]A camera was deliberately trained right on Noah, at the perfect moment after he sat with 2 fouls, and got involved with the fan. I have to think it's a deliberate attempt to catch the player in a 'weak' moment, makes for juicy sensationalist headlines the next day. Why didn't they just keep the camera on the on-court action? Nope,keep it on Noah who's obviously pissed, and let's hope he says something we can blow up into a huge story tomorrow. Unfortunately for Noah, he obliged, though I imagine in the heat of the moment, the player likely isn't thinking that a camera has him in a close-up situation, waiting for an outburst.[/QUOTE]

You really don't understand how televising a sporting event works, do you?

There are dozens of cameras, each assigned to different shots/coverage. One of those is the shot of the respective benches. The camera that was "deliberately trained" on Noah is the same one that shows shots of the bench throughout the game. It's [B]always[/B] there, and every player knows it.

This isn't your chucker league at the Y. These are highly paid professionals who are counseled by the league on how to conduct themselves on and off the court. They're not innocent babes thrown to the wolves.

I like Noah and his intensity. But to try and place the blame on the media, the fan or anyone but him for his stupid action is even more immature than his action.

[QUOTE=niko] Are they ****ing retarded (****)?[/QUOTE]

Is that rhetorical?

[QUOTE=Dragonyeuw]Being a paying customer doesn't give you the right to act like an ***hole either, [U]assuming that the fan shouted something inappropriate.[/U] I can appreciate the whole 'I'm a customer paying your salary' argument, but there's something to be said for being decent as well. I've been to NBA games before, some fans act truly like F******k ***holes, and I guess because they're 'paying customers' and the whole 'my constitutional right of free speech' means they're free to be as much of a dick as humanly possible?

Note: I'm not saying all that in defense of Noah, he was wrong for saying it, but rowdy, obnoxious home fans jeering in an overboard fashion on opposing team players is a volatile situation. The table is being set for something to happen, and of course the media knows to zoom on on a player in the heat of a moment, hoping to catch something 'juicy' to make a huge issue out of it. Yeah I know, this is a part of sports for the home fans to jeer the opposition, but there's a point where people can cross the line, to where it becomes borderline abusive. I don't care if the fan paid or that the player is making millions, it's the principle of the matter.

[/QUOTE]

Don't disagree that fans go overboard, but...within the parameters set forth on the back of the ticket...they pretty much do have the right to act like assholes. You and I can agree that it's not right, but it's the contract.

I haven't seen a single article that has said anything about what the fan did, if anything. And lets face it...just as the media wants to find something to hump, people are MORE than eager to insert themselves into the story. But nobody has yet.

He's a pro, and every pro athlete knows what comes with the territory. He blew it in this instance, and will certainly pay a pretty penny for his lapse in judgment.

[QUOTE=bagelred]Is that rhetorical?[/QUOTE]
it wasn't meant to be but probably is.

[QUOTE=JMT]

There are dozens of cameras, each assigned to different shots/coverage. One of those is the shot of the respective benches. The camera that was "deliberately trained" on Noah is the same one that shows shots of the bench throughout the game. It's [B]always[/B] there, and every player knows it.

This isn't your chucker league at the Y. These are highly paid professionals who are counseled by the league on how to conduct themselves on and off the court. They're not innocent babes thrown to the wolves.

I like Noah and his intensity. But to try and place the blame on the media, the fan or anyone but him for his stupid action is even more immature than his action.[/QUOTE]

I'm fully aware of the camera setup. That doesn't excuse that the camera used to show the benches was ZOOMED in on Noah and shown on-air at just the right moment. Are you trying to say that the camera for the Bulls bench wasn't deliberately zoomed in, once it was seen that Noah was having an altercation? How many other shots of Noah on the bench was broadcast on-air last night? Nothing you can say will convince me that the Bulls bench camera wasn't deliberately zoomed in, once the camera crew caught wind of a potential confrontation between Noah and the fan.

Having a different opinion than yours on the issue isn't immature, but I'd say calling others who have a different view immature [U]is[/U] very much a sign of immaturity.

[QUOTE=Dragonyeuw]I'm fully aware of the camera setup. That doesn't excuse that the camera used to show the benches was ZOOMED in on Noah and shown on-air at just the right moment. [B]Are you trying to say that the camera for the Bulls bench wasn't deliberately zoomed in, once it was seen that Noah was having an altercation?[/B] How many other shots of Noah on the bench was broadcast on-air last night? Nothing you can say will convince me that the Bulls bench camera wasn't deliberately zoomed in, once the camera crew caught wind of a potential confrontation between Noah and the fan.

Having a different opinion than yours on the issue isn't immature, but I'd say calling others who have a different view immature [U]is[/U] very much a sign of immaturity.[/QUOTE]

Again, you want to blame the camera instead of the professional who allowed himself to get caught up in an altercation. Failure to accept responsibility for ones actions is pretty much the definition of immaturity.

Let's take this a different direction.

Should the cameras show the benches at all? Were the shots of Westbrook post-benching the other night fair game? Durant putting his head in his hands when they were getting blitzed in the 3rd? Jackson pokming Gasol in the chest in Game 4 vs Mavs?

Interested in your opinion on those.

[QUOTE=JMT]Don't disagree that fans go overboard, but...within the parameters set forth on the back of the ticket...they pretty much do have the right to act like assholes. You and I can agree that it's not right, but it's the contract.

[/QUOTE]

I don't agree. I don't care the circumstances, you don't have the arbitrary right to act like an asshole just because you laid down some money. Now again, I don't know what the fan said, maybe it was just a 'you suck Noah' comment and that ignited him. Or it could have been something else more provocative.

Again, I'm not condoning Noah's outburst, but it's reasonable to ask just how much protection the players are being given from unruly fans, or are we just going to go with the '[I]you're a professional millionaire athlete, suck it up and turn off your emotions[/I]' routine? That's a flawed argument, by that measure the next time I go to a restaurant and I don't like the service, I have the arbitrary right to f**k off the waiter, turn the table upside down, and piss on the floor and the staff have to take it, because they're professionals. Why? Because I'm a paying customer, so I do what I want. Yeah.....ok. Obviously I'm giving an extreme example, but the principle is that there is still an expectation of behaving yourself in a certain manner when out in public, no matter not.

I'd like to see the back of a ticket stub that states that the holder like act like a moron. If that's the case, the next NBA game I attend, I'm going to sit courtside and throw my beer on-court, just because I'm a paying customer and I can be an asshole. The back of the ticket says so.....

[QUOTE=Dragonyeuw]I don't agree. I don't care the circumstances, you don't have the arbitrary right to act like an asshole just because you laid down some money. Now again, I don't know what the fan said, maybe it was just a 'you suck Noah' comment and that ignited him. Or it could have been something else more provocative.

Again, I'm not condoning Noah's outburst, but it's reasonable to ask just how much protection the players are being given from unruly fans, or are we just going to go with the '[I]you're a professional millionaire athlete, suck it up and turn off your emotions[/I]' routine? That's a flawed argument, by that measure the next time I go to a restaurant and I don't like the service, I have the arbitrary right to f**k off the waiter, turn the table upside down, and piss on the floor and the staff have to take it, because they're professionals. Why? Because I'm a paying customer, so I do what I want. Yeah.....ok. Obviously I'm giving an extreme example, but the principle is that there is still an expectation of behaving yourself in a certain manner when out in public, no matter not.

I'd like to see the back of a ticket stub that states that the holder like act like a moron. If that's the case, the next NBA game I attend, I'm going to sit courtside and throw my beer on-court, just because I'm a paying customer and I can be an asshole. The back of the ticket says so.....[/QUOTE]

Nope. Specifically says you can be ejected for throwing things on the court. Fail.

Listen, we can spend days discussing the reprehensible way that people conduct themselves in public. People get dumber and more obnoxious every day. But using ridiculous examples is just that. Ridiculous.

There's not a shred of evidence the fan did anything out of the norm. Nothing. So you can defend a principle, but so far, that principle doesn't have anything to do with this situation.

[QUOTE=JMT]Again, you want to blame the camera instead of the professional who allowed himself to get caught up in an altercation. Failure to accept responsibility for ones actions is pretty much the definition of immaturity.

Let's take this a different direction.

Should the cameras show the benches at all? Were the shots of Westbrook post-benching the other night fair game? Durant putting his head in his hands when they were getting blitzed in the 3rd? Jackson pokming Gasol in the chest in Game 4 vs Mavs?

Interested in your opinion on those.[/QUOTE]

I've already said that I don't condone Noah's act, several times. The point I'm making is that the camera was intentionally zoomed in on Noah's altercation. There's no way that was a random by chance occurrence of him being caught on-camera.

Again, the camera caught Westbrook and the coach, going at it, and proceeded to further zoom in on Westbrook as he was mouthing off. This ain't about what the cameras should or shouldn't do, I'm just saying that the occurrences of catching the athlete like what happened to Kobe, Westbrook, and Noah is deliberate. Is that excusing their acts? [U][B]NO[/B][/U]. I'm saying the cameras were deliberately zoomed in on the players [B][U]specifically to catch their actions[/U][/B]. Once Noah went to the bench, why didn't the camera stay on-court? Why didn't it zoom onto the Heat's bench? Or a random shot of a fan poking their nose? Why was it, trained RIGHT on Noah, at THAT moment?

Interested in your opinion on that.

Players shouldn't fined for saying fa[COLOR="Black"]g[/COLOR]got. Nowadays when people say it, they are not referring to gay people, but people who are just douchebags in general.
Like Harley Riders.

[QUOTE=JMT]Nope. Specifically says you can be ejected for throwing things on the court. Fail.

Listen, we can spend days discussing the reprehensible way that people conduct themselves in public. People get dumber and more obnoxious every day. But using ridiculous examples is just that. Ridiculous.

There's not a shred of evidence the fan did anything out of the norm. Nothing. So you can defend a principle, but so far, that principle doesn't have anything to do with this situation.[/QUOTE]

Yes we can spend days, or rather you can. I've made my point, you've made yours. We don't agree, and I'm not investing anymore time on the argument.

There's not a shred of evidence that the fan DIDN'T do anything out of the norm, is it? I can play that too... but whatever.

[QUOTE=Dragonyeuw]I've already said that I don't condone Noah's act, several times. The point I'm making is that the camera was intentionally zoomed in on Noah's altercation. There's no way that was a random by chance occurrence of him being caught on-camera.

Again, the camera caught Westbrook and the coach, going at it, and proceeded to further zoom in on Westbrook as he was mouthing off. This ain't about what the cameras should or shouldn't do, I'm just saying that the occurrences of catching the athlete like what happened to Kobe, Westbrook, and Noah is deliberate. Is that excusing their acts? [U][B]NO[/B][/U]. I'm saying the cameras were deliberately zoomed in on the players [B][U]specifically to catch their actions[/U][/B]. Once Noah went to the bench, why didn't the camera stay on-court? Why didn't it zoom onto the Heat's bench? Or a random shot of a fan poking their nose? Why was it, trained RIGHT on Noah, at THAT moment?

Interested in your opinion on that.[/QUOTE]

I'll address yours despite your dancing around mine.

There were cameras on all those other spots at that moment. The guys in the truck...whose job is to determine what is the most compelling shot at any given moment...chose the Noah situation. Why wouldn't they? A professional athlete was telling a fan to **** off.

Did we miss any game action because of it? no. That's why they have all those cameras and production tools.

Certainly this is not your first experience with the media selling the sensational.

[QUOTE=Dragonyeuw]Yes we can spend days, or rather you can. I've made my point, you've made yours. We don't agree, and I'm not investing anymore time on the argument.

There's not a shred of evidence that the fan DIDN'T do anything out of the norm, is it? I can play that too... but whatever.[/QUOTE]


Seriously??? There's no proof someone didn't do something is your burden of proof???

:roll:

[QUOTE=JMT]Seriously??? There's no proof someone didn't do something is your burden of proof???

:roll:[/QUOTE]

Except..... I didn't use it as a statement of proof. Only that you have no more information of what the fan did than I do. So there's no definitive statement to be made one way or the other.

And bear in mind, I've already said I don't know exactly what the fan did. So yes, to a degree my argument is more on the principle of all this. We likely won't know what the fan said, unless Noah tells us, because all the focus is naturally on him as the athlete.

[QUOTE=bluechox2]so paying customers shud get fined also for instigating it
buying a ticket legally binds you to also act appropriately[/QUOTE]

the customer is always right.. david stern will act accordingly.

[QUOTE=JMT]I'll address yours despite your dancing around mine.

There were cameras on all those other spots at that moment. The guys in the truck...whose job is to determine what is the most compelling shot at any given moment...chose the Noah situation. Why wouldn't they? A professional athlete was telling a fan to **** off.

Did we miss any game action because of it? no. That's why they have all those cameras and production tools.

Certainly this is not your first experience with the media selling the sensational.[/QUOTE]

Don't see where I danced around your points, but whatever works for you. How about this: why doesn't the camera people NOT chose to zoom in on an argument? What purpose does it serve for you as the person watching the game? Did it enrich your day? Did it make your overall experience watching the game that much better? I'd reckon no.... I understand the role of the camera crew to catch the most 'compelling' shot at a given moment, but realistically, at the end of the day, I'm tuning in watch a basketball game, not a soap opera. If they hadn't taken that shot, would we be any worse off for it? Would we be making this into a big national crisis?

I believe I mentioned something about the media and sensationalism. I already know that,but thanks for the lecture in any event. Anyways, I've said all I have to say.

[QUOTE=Dragonyeuw]Except..... I didn't use it as a statement of proof. Only that you have no more information of what the fan did than I do. So there's no definite statement to be made one way or the other.

And bear in mind, I've already said I don't know exactly what the fan did. So yes, to a degree my argument is more on the principle of all this. We likely won't know what the fan said, unless Noah says so, because all the focus is naturally on him as the athlete.[/QUOTE]

If there's a fan who sees it as an opportunity for their 15 minutes, they'll sell out the other fan in a heartbeat. Hasn't happened so far. Guess we'll see.

[QUOTE=Dragonyeuw]Don't see where I danced around your points, but whatever works for you. How about this: [B]why doesn't the camera people NOT chose to zoom in on an argument?[/B]

Anyways, I've said all I have to say.[/QUOTE]

Ok...

[QUOTE=JMT]Ok...[/QUOTE]

Ok.

Little kids obviously won't understand, but the simple fact is that the commissioner (rightfully) does not want to alienate a segment of the population and promote intolerance of people. So anyone caught saying that, or any other slur, should be fined. Pretty simple.

I have [I]no[/I] problem with the cameras capturing the moments of these athletes
when they spew their hate. Even if the cameraman zoomed in on Noah
intentionally, he didn't force Noah to say what he did. Show the viewers what
the kind of people they look up to. I'm all for it. You can't blame a camera
crew/man/production team for exposing some of these bigots.
Yes, Noah was upset, but that doesn't excuse what he said.

Noah will soon learn or be reminded of the oxymoron that his right to freedom of speech, comes with a price. Lol. Get 'em, Stern. :cheers:

[QUOTE=Zach Morris]I have [I]no[/I] problem with the cameras capturing the moments of these athletes
when they spew their hate. Even if the cameraman zoomed in on Noah
intentionally, he didn't force Noah to say what he did. Show the viewers what
the kind of people they look up to. I'm all for it. You can't blame a camera
crew/man/production team for exposing some of these bigots.
Yes, Noah was upset, but that doesn't excuse what he said.

Noah will soon learn or be reminded of the oxymoron that his right to freedom of speech, comes with a price. Lol. Get 'em, Stern. :cheers:[/QUOTE]

:applause:

I have to think that those arguing in Noah's favor are kids. Can't envision an adult, who has been part of the workforce, would fail to understand this.

[QUOTE=tazb]He shouldn't be. Its FREE SPEECH... **** ****...[/QUOTE]

No, it's not, when pertaining to a contract of employment. A business that pays you for your performance has the right to limit and even penalize speech that it deems damaging or inappropriate.

[QUOTE=SebasMiamiFan]He was on the bench. Did he say it to a fan or ref? The NBA fines are BS. I'm a Heat fan. I really don't like Noah, but this is ridiculous at times. He's being fined half a million dollars for that?[/QUOTE]

To a fan. Reports are...and I haven't gonbe back to watch...say he said it more than once to make sure the fan heard it.

Where'd you come up with a half million bucks?

Though I bet it's more than Kobe's 100K. Should be. Took it off the court.

Little kids obviously won't understand, but the simple fact is that the commissioner (rightfully) does not want to alienate a segment of the population and promote intolerance of people. So anyone caught saying that, or any other slur, should be fined. Pretty simple.

[QUOTE=Knoe Itawl]Little kids obviously won't understand, but the simple fact is that the commissioner (rightfully) does not want to alienate a segment of the population and promote intolerance of people. [B]So anyone caught saying that, or any other slur, should be fined. Pretty simple[/B].[/QUOTE]



Except its never treated so simply..

You can say ***** ass ***** and no fine. Even though the N-word is offensive to blacks

Lebron says retarded in a PC and no fine I mean he's offending retards right?

What about *****? There are female NBA fans like myself to consider...

See what this sets?

If you're going to censor *** fine but you should be prepared to censor and fine every other word accordingly.. anything less just shows how full of shyt Stern and Co are.

[QUOTE=Basketball Fan]Except its never treated so simply..

You can say ***** ass ***** and no fine. Even though the N-word is offensive to blacks

Lebron says retarded in a PC and no fine I mean he's offending retards right?

What about *****? There are female NBA fans like myself to consider...

See what this sets?

If you're going to censor *** fine but you should be prepared to censor and fine every other word accordingly.. anything less just shows how full of shyt Stern and Co are.[/QUOTE]

Say any of it to fans and you'll get fined.

[QUOTE=JMT]:applause:

I have to think that those arguing in Noah's favor are kids. Can't envision an adult, who has been part of the workforce, would fail to understand this.[/QUOTE]

Out of interest, who is arguing in Noah's favor? I've probably said a half dozen times or more that Noah was wrong for making that comment. How much clearer can I make that Noah was wrong?! [U]Noah was wrong for the comment.[/U] Hell, I've deliberately said it 3 times for emphasis in this post alone, but it will be spun that excuses are being made for him, just because I happen to think the cameramen specifically captured the moment purely for sensationalist reasons? Just because I'm saying the moment was deliberately captured, is NOT saying Noah was in the right.

Noah has no reason to make the comment, he needs to exercise better judgment. But do I think the camera crew need to capture this moment and broadcast it on-air? For what purpose, beyond it making for great buzz and drama the next day? Yeah, that's how the media operates, I get it. But tangibly, what purpose does it [I]really[/I] serve?

[QUOTE=Basketball Fan]Except its never treated so simply..

You can say ***** ass ***** and no fine. Even though the N-word is offensive to blacks

Lebron says retarded in a PC and no fine I mean he's offending retards right?

What about *****? There are female NBA fans like myself to consider...

See what this sets?

If you're going to censor *** fine but you should be prepared to censor and fine every other word accordingly.. anything less just shows how full of shyt Stern and Co are.[/QUOTE]

I agree with any of that. I'm black and hate the n word so..........

Deny deny deny....he shouldn't have admitted he said it.

Noah "no no no...I said, 'I really enjoy Bob Saget'. you misunderstood."

[QUOTE=Dragonyeuw]Out of interest, who is arguing in Noah's favor? I've probably said a half dozen times or more that Noah was wrong for making that comment. How much clearer can I make that Noah was wrong?! [U]Noah was wrong for the comment.[/U] Hell, I've deliberately said it 3 times for emphasis in this post alone, but it will be spun that excuses are being made for him, just because I happen to think the cameramen specifically captured the moment purely for sensationalist reasons? Just because I'm saying the moment was deliberately captured, is NOT saying Noah was in the right.

[B]Noah has no reason to make the comment, he needs to exercise better judgment. But do I think the camera crew need to capture this moment and broadcast it on-air? For what purpose, beyond it making for great buzz and drama the next day? Yeah, that's how the media operates, i get it. But tangibly, what purpose does it [I]really[/I] serve?[/QUOTE][/B]



Yep all for the sake of the media's faux pearl clutching.. they got what they wanted why pretend otherwise?

[QUOTE=JMT]Oh, he was just upset! That makes it ok.

Get upset at your job and say that to a customer. See what happens.

It wouldn't be a fine.[/QUOTE]

You can't compare playing in the NBA to an average service job. The fan was most likely heckling Noah as he picked up his second foul. How often do customers for no reason come to your place of employment and start talking trash to you? It's part of the nature of the NBA.

If Noah does get fined, the reason won't be because he yelled at one of the millions of paying customers who go to NBA games each year. Losing one fan's money isn't going to put a dent in the NBA's wallet. Noah will get fined because he was caught on camera saying the slur while wearing an NBA uniform.

Stern isn't going to make money by letting people think that the NBA is a league with no tolerance towards homosexuals. It's not because the NBA as a league is becoming soft and cracking down on every little thing. It's because the US culture as a whole is much more accepting towards minority groups today than back in the 80s. By letting the general public think the NBA is filled with a bunch of overpaid athletic freaks who turn their noses at homosexuality, you're narrowing the market and possibly making your games less family friendly.

Had Noah's comment not been caught on camera, nobody would've given two sh*ts about the fan's hurt feelings or the amount of money lost by him never attending an NBA game ever again in his lifetime.

[QUOTE=Dragonyeuw]Out of interest, who is arguing in Noah's favor? I've probably said a half dozen times or more that Noah was wrong for making that comment. How much clearer can I make that Noah was wrong?! [U]Noah was wrong for the comment.[/U] Hell, I've deliberately said it 3 times for emphasis in this post alone, but it will be spun that excuses are being made for him, just because I happen to think the cameramen specifically captured the moment purely for sensationalist reasons? Just because I'm saying the moment was deliberately captured, is NOT saying Noah was in the right.

Noah has no reason to make the comment, he needs to exercise better judgment. But do I think the camera crew need to capture this moment and broadcast it on-air? For what purpose, beyond it making for great buzz and drama the next day? Yeah, that's how the media operates, i get it. But tangibly, what purpose does it [I]really[/I] serve?[/QUOTE]

Dude, I made no reference to you, and certainly didn't say or imply that you were arguing in Noah's favor. But there are people, in both threads, that are taking his side.

Christ, get them out of a bunch. It's really not all about you.