Kobe's been defended for his jumpshot first as well, that has to be factored in when comparing the %s straight up
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Kobe's been defended for his jumpshot first as well, that has to be factored in when comparing the %s straight up
[QUOTE=catch24]From 16-23 FT you may have a leg to stand on, but from 10-15 FT and the FT line, LeBron simply isn't in Kobe's league.[/quote]
Again, can you read? Current LeBron compares very well to ANY version of Kobe jump-shot wise. What part of this are you having a difficult time understanding?
[QUOTE=Indian guy]LeBron averages 1.5 to Kobe's 3. Neither shoots much from that range.[/QUOTE]
How is 3% better on twice the volume not significant? Especially when Kobe is being dared to drive while Lebron is being dared to shot.
[QUOTE=chazzy]Kobe's been defended for his jumpshot first as well[/quote]
Watch the games, nobody's playing LeBron for the drive anymore. He's as tightly guarded as anyone.
[QUOTE=Indian guy]Watch the games, nobody's playing LeBron for the drive anymore. He's as tightly guarded as anyone.[/QUOTE]
:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:
This is really one of the worst arguments ever. :oldlol:
[QUOTE=Indian guy]Watch the games, nobody's playing LeBron for the drive anymore. He's as tightly guarded as anyone.[/QUOTE]
that is just you psychotic version of what is happening.
[QUOTE=Kurosawa0]This is really one of the worst arguments ever. :oldlol:[/QUOTE]
Thanks to you and Indian Guy.
[QUOTE=IGOTGAME]that is just you psychotic version of what is happening.[/QUOTE]
:oldlol: :oldlol:
LeBron compared well this season to Bryant, however, over the course of the last several years, Bryant has been a better shooter than LeBron. LeBron has definitely improved and I this as his athleticism begins to wane, he will improve even more.
I just imagine Dirk and Nash reading this and laughing their asses off.
[QUOTE=Indian guy]Not really. Both barely attempt any shots from that 10-15 foot range.[/quote]
Yes really.
3 FGA from 10-15FT is about 200 shots from in an 82 game season; 1.5 FGA from 10-15 FT is about 120 shots in an 82 game season.
Again, significant.
[quote]Except nobody's comparing 10-11 LeBron to 10-11 Kobe only. I'm comparing current LeBron's jumper to all 5 seasons of Kobe that are recorded on hoopdata, and LeBron stands up very well. That's the POINT - that Kobe's no longer "on a different level" and was IN FACT worse this past season.[/quote]
Except, you're wrong, like always.
Kobe's 2006-2007 season where he was damn-near automatic from mid-long range (shot 42% on 8 attempts from 16-23 FT) was easily better than LeBron's shooting exhibition this season. When you factor in volume, 10-15 FT/midrange, and FT shooting, LeBron still wasn't a better shooter than Kobe. You're delusional.
[quote]That's no what you said though you said[/QUOTE]
I was talking about the volume of shots [I]on average[/I].
Kobe is still on another level than LeBron when it pertains to shooting.
[QUOTE=Indian guy]Again, can you read? Current LeBron compares very well to ANY version of Kobe jump-shot wise. What part of this are you having a difficult time understanding?[/QUOTE]
Again, can you?
No, he doesn't. LeBron isn't the jumpshooter Kobe is from 10-15 FT. Not even close.
[QUOTE=Kurosawa0]I just imagine Dirk and Nash reading this and laughing their asses off.[/QUOTE]
No one is comparing Kobe/LeBron to Dirk and Nash, dumbass.
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You guys do realize that's what I see right?
[QUOTE=catch24]No one is comparing Kobe/LeBron to Dirk and Nash, dumbass.[/QUOTE]
he said that Lebron is just as good a shooter as Dirk in another thread
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You guys do realize that's what I see right?[/QUOTE]
This is what happens when you get carved up.
[QUOTE=Kurosawa0]catch24 This user is on your Ignore List.
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You guys do realize that's what I see right?[/QUOTE]
Seriously, you're like a small child. When you lose an argument, you just cover your ears and go "LA LA LA LA LA I'M NOT LISTENING!"
Grow up.
Are you guys seriously quoting my ignore messages? Really?
Yes, let's debate which player is a slightly less mediocre shooter. Come on...
[QUOTE=Kurosawa0]Are you guys seriously quoting my ignore messages? Really?[/QUOTE]
Are you seriously still replying in a thread you got your ass kicked in?
Kurasawa got owned so now he resorts to stupid petty shit. Feels good man. Good work Catch :applause:
" are we really arguing who is a slightly less mediocre shooter"
:roll: :roll:
[QUOTE=Kurosawa0]catch24 This user is on your Ignore List.
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You guys do realize that's what I see right?[/QUOTE]
what a surprise you're a quitter just like lebrick :rolleyes:
[QUOTE=Kurosawa0]Yes, let's debate which player is a slightly less mediocre shooter. Come on...[/QUOTE]
What is your problem dude? You called him out for his %s and he gave you the facts, now you put him on ignore and try to undermine the entire basis of the argument altogether. I guess we can only discuss elite players and elite abilities now.
[QUOTE=chazzy]What is your problem dude? You called him out for his %s and he gave you the facts, now you put him on ignore and try to undermine the entire basis of the argument altogether. I guess we can only discuss elite players and elite abilities now.[/QUOTE]
Nah, it was the dickish "Educate yourself." That, and I knew it'd send him into a hissy fit.
I didn't actually call out the numbers. I said that this is a case where the numbers aren't really that relevant.
The thing is, there's not a whole lot of separation between the two. If you want to argue either side, fine. I don't because I really feel like both are fairly mediocre shooters. They can get hot and kill it or they can miss a whole bunch. To make this some big argument is a bit ridiculous.
It's like I said, it's like asking which player is better at getting assists, Derrick Rose or Russell Westbrook? Does it really matter?
I feel about as comfortable with a LeBron James jump shot as I do a Kobe Bryant one.
Now if you're arguing career, I'd take Kobe. Now? Meh...
So wait, did you get butthurt just because he said 'educate yourself'?
:facepalm
[QUOTE=Indian guy]LeBron's ability to shoot doesn't get diminished just because he happens to be a more effective interior player than Kobe. That's the sole reason for the minute difference in perimeter attempts between the 2 players. 32% of Kobe's total FGA were from 16-23 feet the last 5 seasons. 28% for LeBron this past season. VERY insignificant difference, thus making the difference in their volumes a non-issue. Same goes for 10-15 feet, where 14% of Kobe's total FGA came from that area, 9% for LeBron.[/quote]
No one is saying LeBron's ability to shoot gets diminished; use your brain.
Again, Kobe, on average, attempts 2 more shots from 16-23 FT for their careers. This season wasn't even close in comparison to Kobe's 2006-2007 year, where he shot 8 FGA per game from 16-23 FT, averaging 42% shooting; he also averaged a FG more from 10-15 FT and STILL shot the ball better by 3%.
The volumes are definitely significant. The same does NOT go for 10-15 FT where Kobe attempts 80 more shots a season.
[quote]When you get down to it, 10-11 LeBron is better than Kobe's been from 16-23 feet the last 5 years, and only 3% short from 10-15 feet. The difference in volume, as proven above, is completely insignificant.[/quote]
Wrong. When you get down to it, you have to take defense and FGA into context. LeBron's 16-23 FT game doesn't compare to Kobe's 16-23 FT %'s, in 2006-2007, where he attempted 3 FGA more.
42% from 16-23 FT on 8.4FGA >>>> 45% from 16-23 FT on 5.4 FGA. When you account for defensive attention, it's really not all that close.
[quote]No you weren't :oldlol:, because their volumes are very similar. What you flat out said is Kobe's on a different level as a shooter, when there's absolutely nothing supporting this anymore. You were WRONG.[/quote]
Uhhh, yes... I was. Apparently you have trouble comprehending. Why would I say [I]on average[/I] to anything besides the numbers/stats? Kobe is better than LeBron with EASE (factoring in 10-15 FT midrange jumpshots, FT shooting; not just 16-23 FT like you keep repeating).
[quote]Too bad all FACTS disagree with you. Repeating lies won't make your BS come true.[/QUOTE]
Too bad they don't. Not my fault you can't read, "wee one".
[url]http://www.hoopdata.com/player.aspx?name=LeBron%20James[/url]
[url]http://www.hoopdata.com/player.aspx?name=Kobe%20Bryant[/url]
[QUOTE=catch24]
Kobe's 2006-2007 season where he was damn-near automatic from mid-long range (shot 42% on 8 attempts from 16-23 FT)[/quote]
LeBron's ability to shoot doesn't get diminished just because he happens to be a more effective interior player than Kobe. That's the sole reason for the minute difference in perimeter attempts between the 2 players. 32% of Kobe's total FGA were from 16-23 feet the last 5 seasons. 29% for LeBron this past season. VERY insignificant difference, thus making the difference in their volumes a non-issue. Same goes for 10-15 feet, where 14% of Kobe's total FGA came from that region, 9% for LeBron.
When you get down to it, 10-11 LeBron is better than Kobe's been from 16-23 feet the last 5 years, and only 3% short from 10-15 feet. The difference in volume, as proven above, is completely insignificant.
[quote]I was talking about the volume of shots [I]on average[/I].[/quote]
No you weren't :oldlol:, because their volumes are very similar. What you flat out said is Kobe's on a different level as a shooter, when there's absolutely nothing supporting this anymore. You were WRONG.
[quote]Kobe is still on another level than LeBron when it pertains to shooting.[/QUOTE]
Too bad all FACTS disagree with you. Repeating lies won't make your BS come true.
Well you can respond to my post; I see you deleted your original one.
[QUOTE=Indian guy]LeBron's ability to shoot doesn't get diminished just because he happens to be a more effective interior player than Kobe. That's the sole reason for the minute difference in perimeter attempts between the 2 players. 32% of Kobe's total FGA were from 16-23 feet the last 5 seasons. 29% for LeBron this past season. VERY insignificant difference, thus making the difference in their volumes a non-issue. Same goes for 10-15 feet, where 14% of Kobe's total FGA came from that region, 9% for LeBron.
[/QUOTE]
Why does the % of their total shots matter? Attempts are attempts, and Kobe's attempted more on average than Lebron has and that can't be disregarded just because of the ratio to their total attempts
[QUOTE=catch24]
Again, Kobe, on average, attempts 2 more shots from 16-23 FT for their careers.[/quote]
Over the last 5 years, Kobe only attempts 3% more shots from 16-23 feet than LeBron does.
[quote]The volumes are definitely significant.[/quote]
How is 3% and 5% significant?
[quote]The same does NOT go for 10-15 FT where Kobe attempts 80 more shots a season from 10-15 FT. [/quote]
Kobe also shoots A LOT more than LeBron does. When adjusted to FGA, the difference between their FGA from 10-15 feet is ONLY 5%. That's nothing.
[quote]When you get down to it, you have to take defense and FGA into context. LeBron's 16-23 feet doesn't compare to Kobe's 16-23 FT %'s in 2006-2007 where he attempted 3 FGA on.[/quote]
Why are you stuck on his volume for 1 season? It's not like Kobe's efficiency changed after his FGA from 16-23 feet went significantly down following 06-07. If anything, it went down. So what does volume prove anything here?
[quote]Why would I say [I]on average[/I] to anything besides stats?[/quote]
You didn't say anything about AVERAGES when you initially said Kobe's on a different level than LeBron. Clearly, you had no clue how good of a shooter 10-11 LeBron was. When I brought his impressive percentages to your attention, you quickly back pedaled and changed your argument to volume, but that doesn't work either. Because ON AVERAGE over the last 5 years, Kobe only attempts 3% more shots from 16-23 feet than LeBron. Only 5% more from 10-15 feet.
[quote]Too bad they don't.[/quote]
They absolutely do. Your entire argument when confronted with the fact that 10-11 LeBron's jumper percentages compared very well with Kobe over the last 5 years was "OMG look at the volume!!". Turns out, the difference in volume is not significant at all. So, you were proven wrong. There's ZILCH supporting your claim of Kobe being on a different level as a shooter than LeBron.
[QUOTE=chazzy]Why does the % of their total shots matter?[/quote]
How does it not matter? This is the equivalent of saying the team that scores the most is the best offensive team! Except we KNOW that doesn't account for things like actual efficiency. So we adjust for pace to get a more accurate picture, right? So how's this any different?
[quote]Attempts are attempts, and Kobe's attempted more on average than Lebron has[/quote]
The point is, the different in their attempts is completely insignificant. When BOTH players take the same amount of shots, Kobe's only taking 3% more shots from 16-23 feet.
LeBron being declared a better shooter than Bryant ...
[IMG]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v496/MitchMatch/guidos-guidettes-another-situation.gif[/IMG]
[QUOTE=Indian guy]Over the last 5 years, Kobe only attempts 3% more shots from 16-23 feet than LeBron does.[/quote]
Where have I argued otherwise? Kobe attempts 3% more and still shoots a better % over the course of 5 seasons.
Reality
[quote]How is 3% and 5% significant?[/quote]
How is 47% to 50% shooting significant?
[quote]Kobe also shoots A LOT more than LeBron does. When adjusted to FGA, the difference between their FGA from 10-15 feet is ONLY 5%. That's nothing.[/quote]
5% is a big difference.
As I pointed out the difference between 1.5 - 3 (when you were talking about their number of midrange shots) is about 80+ more/less a season. Definitely a difference.
[quote]Why are you stuck on his volume for 1 season? It's not like Kobe's efficiency changed after his FGA from 16-23 feet went significantly down following 06-07. If anything, it went down. So what does volume prove anything here?[/quote]
I'm not; you just think this season of LeBron's compare's to any (even Kobe's 2006-2007 year) season of Bryant's from a shooting standpoint, and it just isn't true.
Kobe is better from 10-15 FT from his career by at least 7%; Kobe is better from the FT line by at least 7%; Kobe is better than LeBron by a couple percentages from 16-23 FT. What does that mean when you tally it up? That Kobe is [I]significantly[/I] a better shooter.
[quote]You didn't say anything about AVERAGES when you initially said Kobe's on a different level than LeBron.[/quote]
I brought out the term averages when I was posting stats; me thinking LeBron is significantly worse than Kobe as a shooter only backs the numbers (averages) I posted.
Actually I do. [url]http://207.58.151.151/forum/showthread.php?t=222605&page=2[/url]
I've been keeping track of most perimeter scorers shooting averages this season.
[quote]They absolutely do. Your entire argument when confronted with the fact that 10-11 LeBron's jumper percentages compared very well with Kobe over the last 5 years was "OMG look at the volume!!". Turns out, the difference in volume is not significant at all. So, you were proven wrong. There's ZILCH supporting your claim of Kobe being on a different level as a shooter than LeBron.[/QUOTE]
My argument was confronted with stupidty. I had to bring out the volume (and stats) because your stupid ass is allergic to reality. I can only back my opinion with facts - and I did.
There's a huge difference; again use that brain of yours.
Kobe shoots 3 FGA per game compared to LeBron's 1.5 FGA from 10-15 FT (remember, 1.5 more FGA is 80+ more shots a season ATLEAST) and shoots MUCH better; Kobe is easily a better shooter from the charity stripe and a better shooter from 16-23 FT for their careers. When you factor the midrange and FT shooting differences it's really not close (where 16-23 FT was close the last few seasons).
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You guys do realize that's what I see right?[/QUOTE]
We don't give a shit you ****ing attention whore. Go away.
[QUOTE=Indian guy]How does it not matter? This is the equivalent of saying the team that scores the most is the best offensive team! Except we KNOW that doesn't account for things like actual efficiency. So we adjust for pace to get a more accurate picture, right? So how's this any different?[/QUOTE]
Because we're comparing the efficiency of the two, not the total points produced from their attempts. Accuracy drops as volume increases regardless of what ratio it has to the total FGA. If someone takes 1 3PA out of their 8 attempts and another player takes 3 out of their 24 attempts, we can't just say the difference in volume is insignificant because of what % their total shots are 3PA.
[QUOTE=chazzy]Because we're comparing the efficiency of the two, not the total points produced from their attempts. Accuracy drops as volume increases regardless of what ratio it has to the total FGA. If someone takes 1 3PA out of their 8 attempts and another player takes 3 out of their 24 attempts, we can't just say the difference in volume is insignificant because of what % their total shots are 3PA.[/QUOTE]
Exactly. Everything he's posted has been non sequitur.
[QUOTE=Droid101]We don't give a shit you ****ing attention whore. Go away.[/QUOTE]
I won't go away, but you will.
Lol @ Indian kid still pretending to be a Bulls fan.
... Just watch the games. It's painfully obvious that Kobe is the better mid-range scorer. The gap widens even further when you look at Kobe's prime.