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[QUOTE=TAC602]End Of Discussion.
Between 97bulls and Jacks3, it's difficult to tell which of them is a more unreasonable moron. Although, the eye sore factor of 97bulls posts are probably greater.[/QUOTE]
Then tell me your opinion. Between mullin and bird, or pippen. Was larry bird lightyears better offensively than bird?
[quote]Stop trying to validate you opinion by running behind someone else. When they want to chime in they will. That's what females do.[/quote]
Quit being such a pansy and quote me properly. :oldlol: at hiding behind someone else. It just so happens NO ONE agrees with you. What more needs to be said? You're somewhere on an island by yourself away from scrutiny, hence why you're comfortable posting bullshit.
[quote]
Sure it does. That's why its called my opinion.[/quote]
An unjustified one. There was nothing better Pippen did besides play defense. Magic was damn near better at everything. Reality.
[quote]if your talking about 94 what was he supposed to do?[/quote]
Play better and not quit on his team.
[QUOTE=97 bulls]Again, if you feel that bird was better, that's fine. I never said that notion was blasphemy or anything. I said I believed they're on par with each other.[/QUOTE]
It's not what 'I feel', it's what it is. My opinions in this thread are backed with facts. Again, I don't spout half-assed opinions without some sort of evidence to back them up. You were spewing BS, got called out, and now have no rebuttal or leg to stand on. "[I]If you feel that Bird was better, that's fine[/I]"??? Really??? That's the best you got? What happened to pace and that "uptempo" crap you were regurgitating a few minutes ago?
[QUOTE=catch24]Quit being such a pansy and quote me properly. :oldlol: at hiding behind someone else. It just so happens NO ONE agrees with you. What more needs to be said? You're somewhere on an island by yourself away from scrutiny, hence why you're comfortable posting bullshit.
[B]you are hiding behind others like a girl. And id tell you the exact same thing in person. In fact, I live in los angeles. Whenever your ready, let me know and ill meet up with you and tell you whatever it is you wanna know.[/B]
An unjustified one. There was nothing better Pippen did besides play defense. Magic was damn near better at everything. Reality.
[B]actually, pippen was better than magic as far as championships too. [/B]
Play better and not quit on his team.
[B][/B]
It's not what 'I feel', it's what it is. My opinions in this thread are backed with facts. Again, I don't spout half-assed opinions without some sort of evidence to back them up. You were spewing BS, got called out, and now have no rebuttal or leg to stand on. "[I]If you feel that Bird was better, that's fine[/I]"??? Really??? That's the best you got? What happened to pace and that "uptempo" crap you were regurgitating a few minutes ago?[/QUOTE]
I told you that mullin played in a higher tempo offense but bird played in a higher tempo era. I told you mullin didn't dominate the ball like bird did. So I agree with you. But I just go deeper.
[QUOTE=97 bulls]I told you that mullin played in a higher tempo offense but bird played in a higher tempo era. I told you mullin didn't dominate the ball like bird did. So I agree with you. But I just go deeper.[/QUOTE]
He didn't dominate the ball like Bird did because he wasn't as good running an offense. If he was similar to a playmaker Bird was, he'd of handled the ball more with or without Hardaway.
[quote]
you are hiding behind others like a girl. And id tell you the exact same thing in person. In fact, I live in los angeles. Whenever your ready, let me know and ill meet up with you and tell you whatever it is you wanna know.[/quote]
No one is hiding. I've addressed your posts. Not only are you stupid but an e-thug as well.
Hilarious :oldlol:
You'd be looking at the ground talking to me face to face. Pipe down.
[quote]actually, pippen was better than magic as far as championships too.[/quote]
No, Michael Jordan was. Pippen was merely a sidekick/second option. His impact never exceeded what Magic brought to his teams.
[QUOTE=catch24]He didn't dominate the ball like Bird did because he wasn't as good running an offense. If he was similar to a playmaker Bird was, he'd of handled the ball more with or without Hardaway.
[B]No, the warriors had a great pg. Which meant mullins role was different from birds.[/B]
No one is hiding. I've addressed your posts. Not only are you stupid but an e-thug as well.
Hilarious :oldlol:
[B]I never said anything about you hiding. You implied that my I voice my opinions only over the internet. I have these debates all day at work. I have no problem telling you in person. We could even play some 21 or something.[/B]
You'd be looking at the ground talking to me face to face. Pipe down.
[B]But I'm the internet thug? Come on bro. I think your misunderstanding my invite. [/B]
No, Michael Jordan was. Pippen was merely a sidekick/second option. His impact never exceeded what Magic brought to his teams.[/QUOTE]
I remember in 91. Pippen impacted the hell outta magic. Bottom line, since you only respect what actually happened, you'd have to respect that head to head, pippen has a 1-0 advantage in the championship. And he played better than magic.
[quote]No, the warriors had a great pg. Which meant mullins role was different from birds.[/quote]
Just like the Celtics had great point guard/guard play from DJ and Danny Ainge. Again, if Mullin was so great the offense would have came through him, much like it did in Boston with Bird.
[quote]I never said anything about you hiding. You implied that my I voice my opinions only over the internet. I have these debates all day at work. I have no problem telling you in person. We could even play some 21 or something.[/quote]
Did you not just I'm hiding behind other people on this forum? I'm confused. This is getting f*cking stupid.
I'm alright with you but when you post utter garbage someone has to call you out on it. Please explain why there is no difference between Bird and Mullin offensively when the statistics (and production) throughout their careers say otherwise.
[quote]I remember in 91. Pippen impacted the hell outta magic. Bottom line, since you only respect what actually happened, you'd have to respect that head to head, pippen has a 1-0 advantage in the championship. And he played better than magic.[/quote]
Pippen was a fine player. An awesome all-time great. Jordan has a 1-0 advantage against Magic, not the other way around. Those two were the respective leaders of their squads. It's complete revisionist history to say stuff like Pippen has a 1-0 advantage over Magic, much less an out of prime Magic.
I respect that he put the locks on Magic certain points of that series, but that's about as far as it goes.
[QUOTE=catch24]Just like the Celtics had great point guard/guard play from DJ and Danny Ainge. Again, if Mullin was so great the offense would have came through him, much like it did in Boston with Bird.
[B]They weren't pgs in a traditional sense. Hardaway was. And hardaway was an amzing scorer. And what made it harder for mullin was that hardaway, richmond, and then later spreewell, handled the ball too. Parrish and mchale were bigs. Someone had to get them the ball. I doubt very seriously that bird would've had the ball in his hands as much as he did with hardaway and richmond on his team[/B]
Did you not just I'm hiding behind other people on this forum? I'm confused. This is getting f*cking stupid.
I'm alright with you but when you post utter garbage someone has to call you out on it. Please explain why there is no difference between Bird and Mullin offensively when the statistics (and production) throughout their careers say otherwise.
[B]I know you are. We just disagree on this topic. We may agree on another. It no biggie.[/B]
Pippen was a fine player. An awesome all-time great. Jordan has a 1-0 advantage against Magic, not the other way around. Those two were the respective leaders of their squads. It's complete revisionist history to say stuff like Pippen has a 1-0 advantage over Magic, much less an out of prime Magic.
I respect that he put the locks on Magic certain points of that series, but that's about as far as it goes.[/QUOTE]
You have no choice but to respect what pippen did in 91 vs the magic. And as you like to say, facts are facts, the bulls (with pippen) beat the lakers (with magic johnson). Thus when the two were on the court on the biggest stage playing each other, pippen came out on top. And convinceingly I might add
[QUOTE=97 bulls]They weren't pgs in a traditional sense. Hardaway was. And hardaway was an amzing scorer. And what made it harder for mullin was that hardaway, richmond, and then later spreewell, handled the ball too. Parrish and mchale were bigs. Someone had to get them the ball. I doubt very seriously that bird would've had the ball in his hands as much as he did with hardaway and richmond on his team.[/quote]
You're right, they weren't, which again, is part of the reason Bird ran Boston's offense most of the time. The other reason being HE was the offense. There's no way Mullin could replace what Bird did and still be as effective.
Offensively, yeah, you may have a point. They were close as far as their skillset (passing, exceptional shooting, scoring, and offensive rebounding), it's just the degree Bid did it in was more convincingly dominant.
[quote]You have no choice but to respect what pippen did in 91 vs the magic. And as you like to say, facts are facts, the bulls (with pippen) beat the lakers (with magic johnson). Thus when the two were on the court on the biggest stage playing each other, pippen came out on top. And convinceingly I might add[/QUOTE]
The Bulls lead by Jordan and Pippen beat the Lakers lead by Magic and Worthy. Right. Like I said, I just don't think it's fair to say [I]Pippen = 1-0 against Magic[/I] (like those two were the only superstars and/or leaders that series). It's a little disingenuous is all. And again, not to make any excuses or anything, it's what it is (lol), but one cannot deny LA were on their last legs (Worthy DNP'd two of the five games that series while Scott, who only missed the last game, had nagging injuries as well). It would have been much more interesting to see both teams at their peak go at it.
[QUOTE=catch24]You're right, they weren't, which again, is part of the reason Bird ran Boston's offense most of the time. The other reason was because HE was the offense. There's no way Mullin could replace what Bird did and still be as effective.
Offensively, yeah, you may have a point. They were close as far as their skillset (passing, exceptional shooting, scoring, and offensive rebounding), it's just the degree Bid did it in was more convincingly dominant.
[B]Its no fun when we agree catch. I like you much more when your being difficult[/B]
Did you not just I'm hiding behind other people on this forum? I'm confused. This is getting f*cking stupid.
The Bulls lead by Jordan and Pippen beat the Lakers lead by Magic and Worthy. Right. Like I said, I just don't think it's fair to say [I]Pippen = 1-0 against Magic[/I] (like those two were the only superstars and/or leaders that series). It's a little disingenuous is all. And again, not to make lame excuses, it's what it is (lol), one cannot deny LA were on their last legs (Worthy DNP'd two of the five games that series while Scott, who only missed the last game, had nagging injuries as well). It would have been much more interesting to see both teams at their peak go at it.[/QUOTE]
Your actually right catch. This is disingenuious. But its along the same lines as to why I feel the way I do about pippen. Its not like he had a great team or lost as the favorite. And he didn't play bad vs the knicks. He shot bad. But his overall game was great.
I hope you see the parallel.
[QUOTE=97 bulls]Your actually right catch. This is disingenuious. But its along the same lines as to why I feel the way I do about pippen. Its not like he had a great team or lost as the favorite. And he didn't play bad vs the knicks. He shot bad. But his overall game was great.
I hope you see the parallel.[/QUOTE]
Yeah, I hear you. Much of that is why 'Scottie33Pippen' of Youtube (hitman2k) is around posting mixes and videos of Pipp.
Want my honest opinion? They had no business making the semifials, much less taking the Knicks of all teams to 7 games. That in-itself was an accomplishment. No Bulls fan by any means, but you gotta give credit where its due, and Pippen (who while I still think pulled a b*tch move when his team needed him most), did a stellar job being the glue that held that team together. Dude definitely held his own without Mike.
Seeing that you're a big fan of his, what season do you consider his best?
[QUOTE=catch24]Yeah, I hear you. Much of that is why 'Scottie33Pippen' of Youtube (hitman2k) is around posting mixes and videos of Pipp.
Want my honest opinion? They had no business making the semifials, much less taking the Knicks of all teams to 7 games. That in-itself was an accomplishment. No Bulls fan by any means, but you gotta give credit where its due, and Pippen (who while I still think pulled a b*tch move when his team needed him most), did a stellar job being the glue that held that team together. Dude definitely held his own without Mike.
[B]I agree that 1.8 seconds really hurt his overall status. I think it killed his chances of winning the dpoy the next year. [/B]
Seeing that you're a big fan of his, what season do you consider his best?[/QUOTE]
1995. Easily. He had that team above 500 on pace to win about 44-45 games with a starting lineup of armstrong, myers, himself, either dickie simpkins, corie blount, larry krystawaik, and toni kukoc playing out of position, and luc longley.
That team was number 2 in team defense, and that was SOLELY due to him. He lead the league in defensive rating, he lead the league in steals. Avg a block a game and lead the bulls in every major category. Something that only been done 2 other times. He was also all nba 1st team defense.
Just understand that I in no way shape or form think pippen is or should be ranked higher than magic or bird. No matter what happened in his career, he didn't achieve what they did on a personal level. I just don't think he had a legit chance. Its unfortuante for him, but that's sports.
As far as mullin/bird. Bird was obviously the better player overall. I just feel they're close as far as putting the ball in the basket.
Mullin from mid range, Bird from beyond the arc.
[QUOTE=97 bulls]1995. Easily. He had that team above 500 on pace to win about 44-45 games with a starting lineup of armstrong, myers, himself, either dickie simpkins, corie blount, larry krystawaik, and toni kukoc playing out of position, and luc longley.
That team was number 2 in team defense, and that was SOLELY due to him. He lead the league in defensive rating, he lead the league in steals. Avg a block a game and lead the bulls in every major category. Something that only been done 2 other times. He was also all nba 1st team defense.
Just understand that I in no way shape or form think pippen is or should be ranked higher than magic or bird. No matter what happened in his career, he didn't achieve what they did on a personal level. I just don't think he had a legit chance. Its unfortuante for him, but that's sports.
As far as mullin/bird. Bird was obviously the better player overall. I just feel they're close as far as putting the ball in the basket.[/QUOTE]
Agreed; good perspective of his season too.
I hear 100% what you're saying. I'm glad we had this discussion. Got to know a little more about you and your thoughts on the game. Somewhere in the middle of this debate I think I may of misunderstood what you were trying to say (that Mullin had a similar skillset to Bird). All good though.
[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_KkJoMq_Z7A[/url] :pimp:
[QUOTE=97 bulls]You have no choice but to respect what pippen did in 91 vs the magic. And as you like to say, facts are facts, the bulls (with pippen) beat the lakers (with magic johnson). Thus when the two were on the court on the biggest stage playing each other, pippen came out on top. And convinceingly I might add[/QUOTE]
:facepalm Shut it dumbass up. Pippen got his ass beat by Magic in gm 3. Stop watching clips and watch the gms. MJ guarded him more. Your a dumb****. Magic is way better then Pippen.
[QUOTE=97 bulls]1995. Easily. He had that team above 500 on pace to win about 44-45 games with a starting lineup of armstrong, myers, himself, either dickie simpkins, corie blount, larry krystawaik, and toni kukoc playing out of position, and luc longley.
That team was number 2 in team defense, and that was SOLELY due to him. He lead the league in defensive rating, he lead the league in steals. Avg a block a game and lead the bulls in every major category. Something that only been done 2 other times. He was also all nba 1st team defense.
Just understand that I in no way shape or form think pippen is or should be ranked higher than magic or bird. No matter what happened in his career, he didn't achieve what they did on a personal level. I just don't think he had a legit chance. Its unfortuante for him, but that's sports.
As far as mullin/bird. Bird was obviously the better player overall. I just feel they're close as far as putting the ball in the basket.[/QUOTE]
Mullin was just as good of a shooter, I wouldn't claim otherwise. Bird was great shooter too obviously, but he was a pure scorer on another level. That's the primary difference to me. Bird didn't have explosive athleticism, but the man could get his shot against anybody and do it on a high volume if needed. Clearly, he played on some crazy talented teams and that's probably the reason he didn't put up several 30 ppg seasons. It wasn't anything for him to drop 40+, but he had so many more ways to impact the game outside of scoring and shooting, many of them already detailed by other posters. Still to this day, how many players are 24/10/6? And I usually couldn't careless about numbers when it comes to Bird.
As far as Scottie... amazing versatility, great passer, all-world perimeter defender. I don't see him being much more than he was as a scorer, but then again he had a massive load to carry during the one full year he was on his own. My opinion of Pippen is so high that if I were to put together an 8-man all time roster - not the Top 8 players - but an actual team, he'd be on it. And no, I don't know who all eight would be other than than Hakeem, Jordan.. and Larry Bird. Larry would probably be the 'worst' defender, and that's saying something considering he was an amazing team defender with absurd instincts.
[QUOTE=juju151111]:facepalm Shut it dumbass up. Pippen got his ass beat by Magic in gm 3. Stop watching clips and watch the gms. MJ guarded him more. Your a dumb****. Magic is way better then Pippen.[/QUOTE]
Bulls fan huh? I think you posted about three times. And they've all been to me, and they've all started with insults. What have I done to make you so mad?
[QUOTE=TAC602]Mullin was just as good of a shooter, I wouldn't claim otherwise. Bird was great shooter too obviously, but he was a pure scorer on another level. That's the primary difference to me. Bird didn't have explosive athleticism, but the man could get his shot against anybody and do it on a high volume if needed. Clearly, he played on some crazy talented teams and that's probably the reason he didn't put up several 30 ppg seasons. It wasn't anything for him to drop 40+, but he had so many more ways to impact the game outside of scoring and shooting, many of them already detailed by other posters. Still to this day, how many players are 24/10/6? And I usually couldn't careless about numbers when it comes to Bird.
As far as Scottie... amazing versatility, great passer, all-world perimeter defender. I don't see him being much more than he was as a scorer, but then again he had a massive load to carry during the one full year he was on his own. My opinion of Pippen is so high that if I were to put together an 8-man all time roster - not the Top 8 players - but an actual team, he'd be on it. And no, I don't know who all eight would be other than than Hakeem, Jordan.. and Larry Bird. Larry would probably be the 'worst' defender, and that's saying something considering he was an amazing team defender with absurd instincts.[/QUOTE]
I may be wrong, but you seemed to disagree with me in an earlier post. But now, I can't say I disagree with anything you stated. I think you even called me a dumbass. What's up?
Mullin is definitely a better shooter in my eyes.
[QUOTE=97 bulls]I may be wrong, but you seemed to disagree with me in an earlier post. But now, I can't say I disagree with anything you stated. I think you even called me a dumbass. What's up?[/QUOTE]
You got a lot more reasonable within your conversation with catch24 and I honestly hadn't seen you do anything like that in other threads. Always seemed like you were pushing against the grain purposely, but when you clarified your comments regarding Bird/Mullin, it came off a lot more intelligent so apologies for the insult.
That doesn't mean I'd agree with stuff like Pippen over Magic as an individual player, but I don't worship at the Jordan altar (although I recognize him as GOAT) so I'm not the type to diminish Scottie's contributions and value as a player.
[QUOTE=97 bulls]Bulls fan huh? I think you posted about three times. And they've all been to me, and they've all started with insults. What have I done to make you so mad?[/QUOTE]
It's not just this thread. It's the constant garbage you talk. None of your posts for the last few months make sense. You just come up crap with no facts the back it up. I watch the bulls gms and Pip was good, but he isn't a top 20 player. Just get over it man damn.
I'd take Bird but not just because of skill but how legendary his competitive drive prevented him from losing most of the time. Even in the story Mullin told, he said Bird came back to tie after Mullin took a big lead.
But I was a big fan of that Golden State team (I used to use them on NBA Live 95. I preferred Sprewell, Mullin and Hardaway to Run TMC) so I am aware of how great a shooter Mullin is. As a matter of fact, this video popped up earlier this year showing Mullin exhibiting how shooting prowess on the ESPN campus in Bristol
[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X-hf-Kr8QCY[/url]
[QUOTE=juju151111]:facepalm Shut it dumbass up. Pippen got his ass beat by Magic in gm 3. Stop watching clips and watch the gms. MJ guarded him more. Your a dumb****. Magic is way better then Pippen.[/QUOTE]
lol didn't know Pippen stans can be more delusional than Kobe stans
[QUOTE=juju151111]It's not just this thread. It's the constant garbage you talk. None of your posts for the last few months make sense. You just come up crap with no facts the back it up. I watch the bulls gms and Pip was good, but he isn't a top 20 player. Just get over it man damn.[/QUOTE]
Well now I have something to respond to.
I think what happens is, people come in on a conversation in the middle. I've never said or implied that pippen was a top 10 player. I respond to the posters that say he never led a team to a championship. Is this really a fair assesment? You can base that off of one season?
Was pippen really afforded the same type of team and multiple years to learn from his mistakes?
Pippen did a better job with the teams he had as the "man" than teams other all-time greats had that are comparable. The 95 bulls were on pace to win 44 games. Go back and look at that roster and compare it to another 44 or even your typical 50 win team that was led by an all-time great.
People say pippen wasn't a great scorer. I agree, but he was a good scorer. But his strength was his versitility and defense. Why does he have to conform to other players strengths? There was a stat that I heard while watching the 90 or 91 lakers/warriors playoff game on nbatv about magic and scoring a lot of points. He scored 40 or more points 4 times if I remember correct during his playoff career. The lakers only won 1 of tthose four. Magic never won or dominated a game using his defense. Or scoring a lot of points. But he did dominate a game by controlling tempo and dishing out assists. Pippen didn't really dominate by scoring a lot of points. He did dominate by strangleing the head of an offense by playing suffocating defense on the pg. And filling a stat sheet. Why his way of winning is any less effective than any others all-time greats? Cuz jordan was the best player on the team? Without pippen they don't win.
As far as his alltime ranking, I feel he's in the 20 to 25 range based on his accomplishments. Basketball-reference has a daily running pole ranking every nba player and hes routinely in the 18 to 23 range. In fact, he's at 21 right now.
I don't think anything I said about scottie pippen is wrong or trollish. I think you just disagree. Now you obviously have your reasons. I think its mainly cuz you want jordan to have exclusive credit for every championship the bulls won as if he led a bunch of scrubs to the promise land. The fact is he didn't, he had 7 years to do that and failed miserably. And understand I'm as big a jordan fan as anybody. But I give credit to all the bulls for those championships. Not just jordan.
[QUOTE=97 bulls]Well now I have something to respond to.
I think what happens is, people come in on a conversation in the middle. I've never said or implied that pippen was a top 10 player. I respond to the posters that say he never led a team to a championship. Is this really a fair assesment? You can base that off of one season?
Was pippen really afforded the same type of team and multiple years to learn from his mistakes?
Pippen did a better job with the teams he had as the "man" than teams other all-time greats had that are comparable. The 95 bulls were on pace to win 44 games. Go back and look at that roster and compare it to another 44 or even your typical 50 win team that was led by an all-time great.
People say pippen wasn't a great scorer. I agree, but he was a good scorer. But his strength was his versitility and defense. Why does he have to conform to other players strengths? There was a stat that I heard while watching the 90 or 91 lakers/warriors playoff game on nbatv about magic and scoring a lot of points. He scored 40 or more points 4 times if I remember correct during his playoff career. The lakers only won 1 of tthose four. Magic never won or dominated a game using his defense. Or scoring a lot of points. But he did dominate a game by controlling tempo and dishing out assists. Pippen didn't really dominate by scoring a lot of points. He did dominate by strangleing the head of an offense by playing suffocating defense on the pg. And filling a stat sheet. Why his way of winning is any less effective than any others all-time greats? Cuz jordan was the best player on the team? Without pippen they don't win.
[B]As far as his alltime ranking, I feel he's in the 20 to 25 range based on his accomplishments. Basketball-reference has a daily running pole ranking every nba player and hes routinely in the 18 to 23 range. In fact, he's at 21 right now.[/B]
I don't think anything I said about scottie pippen is wrong or trollish. I think you just disagree. Now you obviously have your reasons. I think its mainly cuz you want jordan to have exclusive credit for every championship the bulls won as if he led a bunch of scrubs to the promise land. The fact is he didn't, he had 7 years to do that and failed miserably. And understand I'm as big a jordan fan as anybody. But I give credit to all the bulls for those championships. Not just jordan.[/QUOTE]
I do think Pippen is worthy of the Top 20-25, but that list cracks me up sometimes. A couple weeks ago, Kobe Bryant was ranked #289. He's managed to climb into the Top 35 based on fan ratings.
Pippen is a complimentary player who quit on his team when they needed him in the playoffs. How does that compare to Magic Johnson? If you want to bring up the 1991 finals, Jordan and Pippen were racking up fouls when they tried to guard Magic. The reason the Bulls won was that they had the younger, healthier team and Jordan played out of his mind. Also 2 of our 5 starters (Scott and Worthy) were playing with bad wheels. Worthy was able to pull himself together enough to score early in the servies but he was not anywhere near his best. The injury hampered every aspect of his game and eventually he had to sit out.
[QUOTE=Kobe 4 The Win]Pippen is a complimentary player who quit on his team when they needed him in the playoffs. How does that compare to Magic Johnson? If you want to bring up the 1991 finals, Jordan and Pippen were racking up fouls when they tried to guard Magic. The reason the Bulls won was that they had the younger, healthier team and Jordan played out of his mind. Also 2 of our 5 starters (Scott and Worthy) were playing with bad wheels. Worthy was able to pull himself together enough to score early in the servies but he was not anywhere near his best. The injury hampered every aspect of his game and eventually he had to sit out.[/QUOTE]
Its sad you feel this way. The bulls had the series well in hand when worthy and scott were hurt. All the rest of the stuff is excuses. Jordan was playing on a bad wheel too. It happens. I could just as easily say that had isaiah thomas not injured himself, the pistons go on to beat the lakers in 88.
As far as the term "complimentary", I. Was reading an article about pippen and whether or not he was a complimentary player. It something if you consider a catcher in baseball "complimentary" to a pitcher. or the way a wide reciever "compliments" a quarter back. Or the way your left and right arm "compliment" each other, you get the point, then sure pippen complimented jordan.
Go back and listen to jordan hall of fame speach. He says every championship he won, he did it with pippen.
And you need to let what he did in 94 go. You ACT as if he stayed out cuz he DIDN'T want the opportunity. But how fitting it is that in game 6 of the bulls last championship, he hurt his back and played through it and even contributed. He was far from a quitter.
I checked the results of some other all-time greats and what their "complimentary" players did without them.
The lakers in 91 won 58 games. He retired, was replaced with sedale threat, who was a solid pg and the won 43 game. They still had worthy and scott.
The celtics in I believe 89 lost bird to injury they replaced him with reggie lewsi. Who was a very good young player. The result? They went from 57 wins to 42 wins. They still had mchale and parrish.
The year shaq was traded from the lakers to the heat, they replaced him with chris mihm. During that year, id make the argument that he was a top 10 center. The result? The lakers won 38 games with bryant leading the team.
The bulls replaced michael jordan with pete myers. Undoubted the biggest drop off in talent. They went from 57 wins to 55 wins.
And please no excuses. Sure bryant missed 14 games, but pippen missed 10. Bird did play in 6 of those games that year and I'm sure they at least won 3 of the six. And the reggie lewis had a very good campaign replacing bird.
You could say that the bulls also picked up kukoc. Which is true. But then id come back with the fact that kobes lakers also got koron butler and lamar odom. Kukoc was a rookie and didn't speak good english.
The bulls did win the championship the year before, and while none of the other teams did, they all made it to the fianls.
Just thought this would give pippen 94 season some strong perspective.
Its sad you feel this way. The bulls had the series well in hand when worthy and scott were hurt.
[I]So the Bulls had the series well in hand in Game 1 when Worthy was visibly limping up and down the court at the start of the game?[/I]
I could just as easily say that had isaiah thomas not injured himself, the pistons go on to beat the lakers in 88.
[I]They might have, just as LA might have won in 89 had Magic Johnson not pulled a hammy and missed a huge chunk of the series[/I]
As far as the term "complimentary", I. Was reading an article about pippen and whether or not he was a complimentary player. It something if you consider a catcher in baseball "complimentary" to a pitcher. or the way a wide reciever "compliments" a quarter back. Or the way your left and right arm "compliment" each other, you get the point, then sure pippen complimented jordan.
[I]Barkley played with Pip along side Hakeem in Houston and he said that he discovered that Pippen "couldn't play without Michael". Charles Barkley's words, not mine[/I]
Go back and listen to jordan hall of fame speach. He says every championship he won, he did it with pippen.
[I]It's customary to compliment your teamates in a HOF speach. Just because Jordan said he did it with Pippen (which is common sense) doesn't mean that Pip is on Magic Johnson's level. [/I]
And you need to let what he did in 94 go. You ACT as if he stayed out cuz he DIDN'T want the opportunity. But how fitting it is that in game 6 of the bulls last championship, he hurt his back and played through it and even contributed. He was far from a quitter.
[I]So I need to let go of (ignore) the negative stuff he did and only focus on the positive stuff? That's not how the real world works.[/I]
[QUOTE=Kobe 4 The Win]Its sad you feel this way. The bulls had the series well in hand when worthy and scott were hurt.
[I]So the Bulls had the series well in hand in Game 1 when Worthy was visibly limping up and down the court at the start of the game?[/I]
I could just as easily say that had isaiah thomas not injured himself, the pistons go on to beat the lakers in 88.
[I]They might have, just as LA might have won in 89 had Magic Johnson not pulled a hammy and missed a huge chunk of the series[/I]
As far as the term "complimentary", I. Was reading an article about pippen and whether or not he was a complimentary player. It something if you consider a catcher in baseball "complimentary" to a pitcher. or the way a wide reciever "compliments" a quarter back. Or the way your left and right arm "compliment" each other, you get the point, then sure pippen complimented jordan.
[I]Barkley played with Pip along side Hakeem in Houston and he said that he discovered that Pippen "couldn't play without Michael". Charles Barkley's words, not mine[/I]
Go back and listen to jordan hall of fame speach. He says every championship he won, he did it with pippen.
[I]It's customary to compliment your teamates in a HOF speach. Just because Jordan said he did it with Pippen (which is common sense) doesn't mean that Pip is on Magic Johnson's level. [/I]
And you need to let what he did in 94 go. You ACT as if he stayed out cuz he DIDN'T want the opportunity. But how fitting it is that in game 6 of the bulls last championship, he hurt his back and played through it and even contributed. He was far from a quitter.
[I]So I need to let go of (ignore) the negative stuff he did and only focus on the positive stuff? That's not how the real world works.[/I][/QUOTE]
Worthy wasn't not visibly limping in game one.
Barkley and pippen didn't get along in houston. Pippen called barkley fat and lazy. Which was very true.
And while its true that its customary. Jordan said it. His words not mine. Before he went down the line and thanled all the people that had a role in making him what he became, dean smith, his mother, his siblings, phil jackson, whoever else, he thanked pippen.
And I never said you need to ignore that play in 94. I said let it go. It was one play in an almost 20 year career. One friggn play. I acknowledged it. But I also understand why he did it. As a coach id be happy to have a guy that's willing to take that last second shot.
Just think of all the players after jordan retired in 98 that could've joined the bulls. Carter, mcgrady, duncan, hill. To name a few. A lot of them chose not to come to the bulls cuz they didn't want to have to fill jordans shoes. That was a lot of pressure. Pippen gladly did it and excelled at it.
Maybe you missed my next post, but I defy you to show me another team that did as well as the bulls did in 94 after they lost their best player.
My criteria for what inconsider great is obviously different from a lot of people. But I'm sorry, I've alway believe magic played in a system that was perfect for him, and routinely had the best team far and away. As well as playing in a dispicable conference. He lost to a lot of teams he had no business loosing to. And to me, that holds a lot of weight.
Is he ranked higher than pippen? Yes. He's accomplished more than pip on a personal level. But that's due to no fault of pippen I've checked other great players rosters that were comparable to the bulls roster talent-wise. And pippen blows them out the water as far as what he was able to accomplish.
97 when did you actually start watching basketball. Your stances are flat out ridiculous.
[QUOTE=eliteballer]97 when did you actually start watching basketball. Your stances are flat out ridiculous.[/QUOTE]
Lol the truth hurts don't it? I don't think anything I said is off base. Its you laaker fans that always want to see thing through purple and gold glasses. I admit that with a healthy worthy and scott the series is a lot more interesting. I still think the bulls come out on top though. But all I hear from laker fans is excuses as to how or why their team lost. As if the lakers never benifitted from having to play an injury riddled team. Wasn't mchale hurt in 87? Didn't you guys benifit from thomas spraining his ankle in 89? Hell jordan had a bad wheel too in the 91 finals.
[QUOTE=97 bulls]I actually think talent-wise, bird and mullin are tit-for-tat. Mullin just never had the teams good enough to win like bird[/QUOTE]
:roll:
97 bulls continues to hate on players from the 80's Lakers & Celtics so he can believe in his mind that the 90's Bulls are the GOAT team. Let your insecurities go.
[QUOTE=1987_Lakers]:roll:
97 bulls continues to hate on players from the 80's Lakers & Celtics so he can believe in his mind that the 90's Bulls are the GOAT team. Let your insecurities go.[/QUOTE]
Some of mullins best years were in the 80s. What are you talking about?
[QUOTE=97 bulls]Some of mullins best years were in the 80s. What are you talking about?[/QUOTE]
You missed the point.:facepalm
Yes, Worthy was limping in game one. The commentators were discussing it early in the game. I watched the f**king game yesterday. Don't call me a liar please. Worthy was clearly injured. I think it happened in the Portland series. He was able to suck it up for a while and play, it hampered him, and eventually he was out of the series completely. This is a FACT.
It is also a fact that Scott had a leg unjury. Leg issues for a basketball player is going to hurt their game especially on defense. That's two of LA's 5 starters. Worthy a Hall of Famer and Finals MVP. I'm not guaranteeing that LA wins that series if 100% healthy but the injuries absolutely were a factor. To deny this is absurd.
[QUOTE=Kobe 4 The Win]Yes, Worthy was limping in game one. The commentators were discussing it early in the game. I watched the f**king game yesterday. Don't call me a liar please. Worthy was clearly injured. I think it happened in the Portland series. He was able to suck it up for a while and play, it hampered him, and eventually he was out of the series completely. This is a FACT.
[B]I didn't see the limping your talking about. I do remember him limping in gaame 3 or 4. But not game one. But as I said before, jordan was hurt too. Its a part of the game.x[/B]
It is also a fact that Scott had a leg unjury. Leg issues for a basketball player is going to hurt their game especially on defense. That's two of LA's 5 starters. Worthy a Hall of Famer and Finals MVP. I'm not guaranteeing that LA wins that series if 100% healthy but the injuries absolutely were a factor. To deny this is absurd.[/QUOTE]
I can't honestly say the bulls win with a healthy worthy and scott. But based on what I saw in games 1-3, the bulls weren't in any real trouble. And again, don't forget jordan had a foot injury too.
This is the first half of game 1. Worthy had a good game. And I don't see the limping. Maybe his foot was hurt. But it wasn't noticbale.
Also. Notice that at the 28 min mark dunleavy puts worthy on jordan.
[url]http://m.youtube.com/index?desktop_uri=%2F&gl=US#/watch?v=JpLvmrawTnw[/url]
my knock on mullin was that he was never an impact difference maker ever.
you'd always see his stats which were pretty good, but at the end of the season when everything counted, he and tmc were always quick playoff exits. and they always departed miserably, going down with barely any swings. if they made to second round, they were often just swept easily like pancakes. there was no fire. no tenacity. no street hunger. whatever u wanna call it.
it's not all mullin's fault, but to me, his greatness is always going to be limited, so it's rather funny why so many people often compare him to larry bird....???
well, it's becuz they're both white. duh.
but they were pretty different players because bird had soooo much more game. also, mullin was soo slow he probably made bird look like brent barry.