Printable View
[QUOTE=Meticode]2 Lockouts in 13 years. Where Amazing Happens.[/QUOTE]
People like to sh!t on baseball all the time for not having a salary cap, but they have had 16 years of labor peace, and even teams that don't even try like the Royals and Pirates, still make profit every year.
All the salary cap sports (NHL, NFL, NBA) have had labor stoppages in the last 10 years.
I wanna say we are at 3 lockouts in 17 years. The 95 one was shorter...but it happened.
[QUOTE=Kblaze8855]
The players do nothing but sell their goods(in this case...entertainment) at a price people find it fair t opay. Even though most pay nothing at all and watch it on TV(unless we are counting cable costs...in which case everyone on tv owes everyone in the world).[/QUOTE]
I wouldn't say it's a "fair" price. Prices for a lot of tickets are crazy. How is it "fair" to pay hundreds if not thousands of dollars if you want to sit front row? You have no choice over that. If you want a good seat, you pay a ridiculous price. I'm sure if it were up to the majority of fans of any sport, they would lower ticket prices.
If it were put to a vote the public would lower the price of 10 cent gum. People want to pay less for everything. how is that an argument?
And of course its fair to pay thousands to sit courtside. There arent many seats. People want them. The people themselves decide what they are willing to pay. Anyone who pays an unfair price almost has to be considered an idiot for supporting the price by telling the people setting it its what they are willing to pay.
[QUOTE=Kblaze8855]^
Some say the actos owe you. Somehow. They owe you more than the movie you paid to see.[/QUOTE]
How is that even the same situation? We pay to see one movie and that's it. Who is expecting anything else? I do think actors are over paid and movie prices are crazy. But I don't think the actors really owe me anything.
It's different because sports fans are constantly supporting the players. They're constantly watching games, attending games, buying their merchandise. Spending tons of money and then something like this happens.
The majority of the public just sees this as rich spoiled athletes who had it good for years and now they're being asked to give up some money and they're refusing. That's why no one is really behind the players in this. Everyone is struggling right now in todays economy but no one is going to stick up or feel sorry for players who make millions of dollars.
[QUOTE=Kblaze8855]If it were put to a vote the public would lower the price of 10 cent gum. People want to pay less for everything. how is that an argument?
And of course its fair to pay thousands to sit courtside. There arent many seats. People want them. The people themselves decide what they are willing to pay. Anyone who pays an unfair price almost has to be considered an idiot for supporting the price by telling the people setting it its what they are willing to pay.[/QUOTE]
$0.10 gum compared to $1,000 front row ticket? Are you freakin' kidding me? Where do you come up with these stupid ass comparisons?
And people don't decide what they're willing to pay. The owners of the teams/arenas decide how much you should pay.
The majority of the public hates everyone richer than them and always will. Jealousy might be the most common human emotion.
[QUOTE=ConanRulesNBC]$0.10 gum compared to $1,000 front row ticket? Are you freakin' kidding me? Where do you come up with these stupid ass comparisons?[/QUOTE]
Im gonna wait a moment and see if anyone but you fails to understand my point there.
I...suspect not.
Just like your opinion that no "grown person" complains about movie ticket prices?
And you know how many players probably get FREE tickets for their family and friends? You really think LeBron James actually pays for his mother to sit court side during the games?
Id say no grown person who has tried to live in the real world thinks 200k is needed t get by in America. The movie? People would...as I said...lower prices of everything.
[QUOTE=ConanRulesNBC]And you know how many players probably get FREE tickets for their family and friends? You really think LeBron James actually pays for his mother to sit court side during the games?[/QUOTE]
Couldnt speak on individual players. I can say for a fact many many many many players buy a lot of tickets for fans and family. There are guys who have spent 50 thousand dollars bringing a gang of people out to see them play. Especially the big events.
Well, movie ticket prices should be lowered.
sad
basketball is something used by the people for nothing but amusement. you take it away and we quickly find a replacement, therefore it is expendable. if you really want to break it down, 90% of the players in the league would be nothing without the nba. they are intellectually inferior, non-charismatic, and come from nothing where the majority of their peers are in jail or dead by 40. what we are doing for them is essentially charity.
their product is not something we require. it is not food, or electricity, or medical care. we pay for something we enjoy, not require. and therefore the league HAS to cater to the people, otherwise the demand for the product will relinquish with our leisure going towards something else.
the die hards, like those that post on internet message boards, will come back; but eventually you hit a point where the casual fan(which makes up 95% of sports fans) doesn't care anymore and that is when the nba dies.
^^ Makes good points.
As someone from the kind of place NBA players come from...
Most of my friends are not dead or in jail and those who arent 40 arent likely to be by then.
And charity? Paying to be entertained is not...charity.
[QUOTE=28renyoy]basketball is something used by the people for nothing but amusement. you take it away and we quickly find a replacement, therefore it is expendable. if you really want to break it down, 90% of the players in the league would be nothing without the nba. they are intellectually inferior, non-charismatic, and come from nothing where the majority of their peers are in jail or dead by 40. what we are doing for them is essentially charity.
[/QUOTE]
Interesting idea. So basically you are saying that:
1. There is a group of people, who are the world's top .0000000000001% at a very lucrative line of work.
2. This lucrative line of work exists and generates billions of dollars in revenue world wide.
3. If that line of work doesn't exist, they cannot use their unique and sublime talent.
4. Therefore these people are useless and money we pay to access their talents is charity.
Seriously, though. Please think before you post.
[QUOTE=28renyoy] if you really want to break it down, 90% of the players in the league would be nothing without the nba. they are intellectually inferior, non-charismatic, and come from nothing where the majority of their peers are in jail or dead by 40. what we are doing for them is essentially charity.
[/QUOTE]
That sounds like a racist post to be honest. It's sad that you have this point of view and just because someone comes from a lower social-economic status it doesn't make them dumber than anyone else or non-charismatic...
Just because not everyone can afford courtside seats doesn't mean the prices aren't fair.
[quote=28renyoy]basketball is something used by the people for nothing but amusement. you take it away and we quickly find a replacement, therefore it is expendable. if you really want to break it down, 90% of the players in the league would be nothing without the nba. they are intellectually inferior, non-charismatic, and come from nothing where the majority of their peers are in jail or dead by 40. what we are doing for them is essentially charity.
their product is not something we require. it is not food, or electricity, or medical care. we pay for something we enjoy, not require. and therefore the league HAS to cater to the people, otherwise the demand for the product will relinquish with our leisure going towards something else.
the die hards, like those that post on internet message boards, will come back; but eventually you hit a point where the casual fan(which makes up 95% of sports fans) doesn't care anymore and that is when the nba dies.[/quote]
yet they have a skillset and are in a line of work that less than 1% of the population can perform. There's a reason why they are paid so much. Employees have just as much of a right to find competitive suitors that are willing to pay for their talents and abilities just as much as employers have a right to find competitive employees that are willing to work for them.
John Amaechi completely slayed this argument on ESPN today. Hopefully someone posts it on Youtubee so I can link it here. In short, he touched on the same issues that I did regarding pro athletes having great power of influence, and choosing not to use it, or choosing not to use it to institute positive change... or instead using it to sell sneakers and jerseys.
[QUOTE=Kevin_Gamble]Interesting idea. So basically you are saying that:
1. There is a group of people, who are the world's top .0000000000001% at a very lucrative line of work.
2. This lucrative line of work exists and generates billions of dollars in revenue world wide.
3. If that line of work doesn't exist, they cannot use their unique and sublime talent.
4. Therefore these people are useless and money we pay to access their talents is charity.
Seriously, though. Please think before you post.[/QUOTE]
Without the league, the players value to society diminishes almost entirely. And what do they do for society? They entertain us. It is not something required, we watch basketball strictly for amusement. When you have something that elastic, you must appease the public no matter what. This is a matter of simple economics.
The players are defined by the fans in every way. Just look at Tim Tebow. An average NFL player, statistically speaking, yet he had the top selling jersey in the NFL. It's not about performance or output, but appealing to the fans and at this point the NBA is not doing that.
Most of these players are uneducated and without playing a sport they wouldn't be anywhere right now. They'd be working in factories or McDonalds. The only reason most of them get through school is because they can play a sport. Not because of how smart they are.
[QUOTE=bdreason]John Amaechi completely slayed this argument on ESPN today. Hopefully someone posts it on Youtubee so I can link it here. In short, he touched on the same issues that I did regarding pro athletes having great power of influence, and choosing not to use it, or choosing not to use it to institute positive change... or instead using it to sell sneakers and jerseys.[/QUOTE]
A lot of these athletes "give back" when it comes to helping their image. Other than that, they don't give a crap about anyone else. All they care about is owning 5 mansions, buying half a million dollar cars, $100,000 diamond earrings or watches, spending $250,000 in one night at a bar.
And what you might be without your skills means.....what?
[QUOTE=Kblaze8855]And what you might be without your skills means.....what?[/QUOTE]
It means that they're fortunate to be able to play a sport and make millions and most of them are greedy a**holes who just take and take and take and never give back.
[QUOTE=Sarcastic]People like to sh!t on baseball all the time for not having a salary cap, but they have had 16 years of labor peace, and even teams that don't even try like the Royals and Pirates, still make profit every year.
All the salary cap sports (NHL, NFL, NBA) have had labor stoppages in the last 10 years.[/QUOTE]
Because the big boys share with the little boys... something the NBA seems to want to avoid.
The answer has always been revenue sharing, and the owners know it. They are just trying to get what they can out of the players before they address the real issues.
as opposed to the rest of humanity who take and take and never give back?
If poor people got rich they would be the same way for the most part. Which should be obvious since most people in sports were poor to begin with.
Top to bottom people are selfish.
[QUOTE=ConanRulesNBC]A lot of these athletes "give back" when it comes to helping their image. Other than that, they don't give a crap about anyone else. All they care about is owning 5 mansions, buying half a million dollar cars, $100,000 diamond earrings or watches, spending $250,000 in one night at a bar.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=ConanRulesNBC]Most of these players are uneducated and without playing a sport they wouldn't be anywhere right now. They'd be working in factories or McDonalds. The only reason most of them get through school is because they can play a sport. Not because of how smart they are.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=ConanRulesNBC]It means that they're fortunate to be able to play a sport and make millions and most of them are greedy a**holes who just take and take and take and never give back.[/QUOTE]
Just call them dumb ****ers and be done with it. Your posts disgust me.
You have no basis for this racist and ridiculous view. The truth is they almost all donate significant amounts of time and energy into their communities and have since college. My nephew was in a youth hospital and I saw a number of them. Several days later they dropped by a local boys and girls club where he was playing. He has seen them enough that he feels he knows a pair of them. There is infinite numbers of these stories and your harsh portrayals of them are completely unfounded.
[QUOTE=bdreason]Because the big boys share with the little boys... something the NBA seems to want to avoid.
The answer has always been revenue sharing, and the owners know it. They are just trying to get what they can out of the players before they address the real issues.[/QUOTE]
And yet people continuously bash the players for not taking the damn deal, even though it was not in their best interest to do so. Only the owner's, and our's because we get our precious basketball entertainment back.
[QUOTE=HurricaneKid]Just call them dumb ****ers and be done with it. Your posts disgust me.
You have no basis for this racist and ridiculous view. The truth is they almost all donate significant amounts of time and energy into their communities and have since college. My nephew was in a youth hospital and I saw a number of them. Several days later they dropped by a local boys and girls club where he was playing. He has seen them enough that he feels he knows a pair of them. There is infinite numbers of these stories and your harsh portrayals of them are completely unfounded.[/QUOTE]
This pretty much sums it up, but now you will be charged with pulling the ol race card out.
[QUOTE=Kblaze8855]as opposed to the rest of humanity who take and take and never give back?
If poor people got rich they would be the same way for the most part. Which should be obvious since most people in sports were poor to begin with.
[B]Top to bottom people are selfish[/B].[/QUOTE]
That's not true. I know tons of people who give and donate to charities and go and help serve food at pads. I go and serve food at pads and go to feed my starving children and make the bags of rice, chicken, etc. to ship out to other countries.
These rich athletes could be doing so much more to help out less fortunate people. But they don't.
[QUOTE=HurricaneKid]Just call them dumb ****ers and be done with it. Your posts disgust me.
You have no basis for this racist and ridiculous view. The truth is they almost all donate significant amounts of time and energy into their communities and have since college. My nephew was in a youth hospital and I saw a number of them. Several days later they dropped by a local boys and girls club where he was playing. He has seen them enough that he feels he knows a pair of them. There is infinite numbers of these stories and your harsh portrayals of them are completely unfounded.[/QUOTE]
:roll:
You're right. I'm racist towards athletes. I don't give a crap what race or gender they are.
[QUOTE=Sarcastic]This pretty much sums it up, but now you will be charged with pulling the ol race card out.[/QUOTE]
Oh f*ck off. Seriously. You're the most annoying poster on here. All you do is sit there and suck these NBA players *****.
Funny to me people say racism isnt an issue with peoples opinions but one of the two arguing now was saying the players are likely drug dealers and the other calls black people coons and tells posters to go back to the jungle.
[QUOTE=Kblaze8855]Funny to me people say racism isnt an issue with peoples opinions but one of the two arguing now was saying the players are likely drug dealers and the other calls black people coons and tells posters to go back to the jungle.[/QUOTE]
When have I ever been racist to anyone? I say they'd probably be drug dealears and you assume that I mean they're black. You're the one playing the race card.
Okay the fact that basketball players are in the entertainment industry shows that they owe us even less. I mean think about it-if all doctors that treated cancer doubled their prices, only the cancer patients who absolutely couldn't afford healthcare would stop seeing the doctor, because if they stop seeing the doctor they die. In this sense, I would say doctors/healthcare agencies owe the public to at least keep healthcare prices somewhat affordable. However, if the NBA doubled ticket prices, a lot more people would stop going to games, because even though these people could technically still afford it, they decide that the money could be better spent.
Seriously, all these people claiming the NBA owes us or something just need to take a basic Economics class. Ticket prices are determined entirely by the market. If Franchises can charge 1000 dollars for front row seats, and people will buy them, then obviously they are going to charge that much. If they sold these seats for $10, then the franchise is being inefficient. They are making less money than they could, and the customers willing to pay most for these seats aren't necessarily getting them. Players saying they "owe" the fans are just trying to give people another reason to buy their product, because if a fan feels a personal connection to a player/team then they might be willing to spend just a little more on the product.
This lockout should be showing fans more than anything how it is all just business.
[QUOTE=ConanRulesNBC]Oh f*ck off. Seriously. You're the most annoying poster on here. All you do is sit there and suck these NBA players *****.[/QUOTE]
Because my opinion differs from yours? Or is it that I am not as simplistic in my world view as to question why people who are entertainers and the most elite at what they do, deserve millions of dollars in compensation?
[QUOTE=ConanRulesNBC]That's not true. I know tons of people who give and donate to charities and go and help serve food at pads. I go and serve food at pads and go to feed my starving children and make the bags of rice, chicken, etc. to ship out to other countries.
These rich athletes could be doing so much more to help out less fortunate people. But they don't.[/QUOTE]
I bought mosquito netting for charity in this very topic. ive helped the homeless and given food away and helped out can drives and so on.
And rest assured......im selfish as hell.
We all are. We dont do half of what we can. I dont do a tenth. And ill throw stones when i dont spend enough to save a kids life or feed his whole family for a month on video games and bullshit i dont need.