[QUOTE=TheNaturalWR]Wade is holding LeBron back? Who the **** held Wade back in the Finals?[/QUOTE]
Exactly.
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[QUOTE=TheNaturalWR]Wade is holding LeBron back? Who the **** held Wade back in the Finals?[/QUOTE]
Exactly.
It still makes me angry and sad to this day. If LeBron just played a little better and maybe contributed more down the stretch, the Heat would have a title right now and they would be trying to repeat. :cry:
[QUOTE=pauk]So... you dont think that Wade & Lebron are holding eachother back? Care to explain?
Has nothing to do with hate... its no secret they are holding eachother back, but they do it for the better good... for better team success... for a championship... because Miami Heat sure is better with those two playing... there is pros & cons with throwing in two balldominant superstar players together....[/QUOTE]
well... like all the others said it's based on a game or few games.
But that's not why I think it's a dumb thread.
Lebron [B]joined[/B] the Heat to play with Wade. Don't you see the irony?
[QUOTE=EnoughSaid]It still makes me angry and sad to this day. If LeBron just played a little better and maybe contributed more down the stretch, the Heat would have a title right now and they would be trying to repeat. :cry:[/QUOTE]
:lebroncry: :lebroncry: :lebroncry: :lebroncry:
From 05-10 he put up 29/7/7 on 48% and since he came to the Heat he's put up 27/8/7 on 52%. The difference really isn't that big.
You can argue that any decline in production from Lebron and Wade has a lot more to do with their athletic decline then anything else.
[QUOTE=EnoughSaid]It still makes me angry and sad to this day. If LeBron just played a little better and maybe contributed more down the stretch, the Heat would have a title right now and they would be trying to repeat. :cry:[/QUOTE]
If the Heat don't win a championship the series vs the Mavs is gonna eat his legacy alive.
[QUOTE=TheNaturalWR]If the Heat don't win a championship the series vs the Mavs is gonna eat his legacy alive.[/QUOTE]
Think it already has. A title still doesn't change that his performance was arguably the worst in finals history for someone of his caliber.
You can say the combination of Bosh and Wade, as the team is probably better with Lebron and Wade and not a guy like Bosh...or, blame the coach, who can't make the most of Bosh in the half-court. Such a waste of a player.
Webber was asking him today if he was hurt and Bosh laughed and said no, that it's the way he is and that the coaches keep reminding him to run the court.
DUH...if they're not gonna maximize him in the half-court, then there's no point in playing him. His rebounding is lesser, and obviously so is his offensive game. It's incredible that the coaching staff can't put that together.
[QUOTE=guy]Think it already has. A title still doesn't change that his performance was arguably the worst in finals history for someone of his caliber.[/QUOTE]
He still has a chance if he wins a title this year and shows up to play. A Finals MVP will definitely increase his legacy big time but knowing Wade....doubt he gets it.
It has more to do with usage rating.
Why do you think Lin was doing so well for a period of time? His usage rating was extremely high and consistent, allowing him to miss shots, find his rhythm, make plays/turnovers, etc. When Carmelo came back, Lin started demanding less shots and deferred to Melo, a proven star, instead. However, with Lin also in play, Melo has struggled (partly due to injury) because he hasn't been used consistently enough and is instead chucking up shots. Now that Lin is out, Melo is slowly transitioning back into his old self.
When you have too many ball dominant stars, the amount of usage you can distribute amongst them will be lower than the amount they need to succeed, thus lowering their overall efficiency.
What a terrible knee jerk reaction thread.
Its abundantly clear and obvious that Lebron and Wade can't play at their peak level on the same team.
Which is exactly what a lot of people were curious to see how it would work.
Its not really an excuse...its about the limitations of each of their games so to speak. Put a guy like Kobe next to Lebron and it wouldn't be ideal, but it would be a better fit than Wade because of how good of a spot up shooter Kobe is.
Still should win the title and dominate teams though. While its not perfect, they should be able to make it work. Part of being a great basketball player is being able to play many different styles and with many different players and with many different coaches...etc.
If Lebron and Wade can't do that...then that takes away a bit from their greatness.
should have just stayed on the cavs. :coleman:
I can't believe you LeBron fans would rather prefer him staying in Cleveland with that garbage team in stead of coming over to the Heat to compete for a title.
[QUOTE=Kews1]should have just stayed on the cavs. :coleman:[/QUOTE]
[IMG]http://s16.postimage.org/hfe9trysz/GEORGE_W_BUSH.jpg[/IMG]
[QUOTE=EnoughSaid]I can't believe you LeBron fans would rather prefer him staying in Cleveland with that garbage team in stead of coming over to the Heat to compete for a title.[/QUOTE]
nobdoy knows how much lebron could have been beasting this year on his own. he could be that good on his own that even with a sub-par cleveland team that he could make pushes for championships on his own. Nothing wrong with going to Miami and it was probably the right decision to make. But Wade holds lebron back in the sense that we will never get to see just how great Lebron could have been. He will still be one of the all time greats and i hope he wins his championships but its a let-down as a basketball fan in general that we cant see his full potential
[QUOTE=EnoughSaid] Plus it was against the Sixers man. The Heat destroyed the Sixers the previous 2 times they met, WITH Wade. :facepalm[/QUOTE]
Agreed. And also sixers best player went blind;:coleman:
[QUOTE=Kews1]nobdoy knows how much lebron could have been beasting this year on his own. he could be that good on his own that even with a sub-par cleveland team that he could make pushes for championships on his own. Nothing wrong with going to Miami and it was probably the right decision to make. But Wade holds lebron back in the sense that we will never get to see just how great Lebron could have been. He will still be one of the all time greats and i hope he wins his championships but its a let-down as a basketball fan in general that we cant see his full potential[/QUOTE]
Not sure if Bird regretted about McHale, Parish, and Johnson playing for him to only prove he could average like 35 a game.
[QUOTE=Bigsmoke]Not sure if Bird regretted about McHale, Parish, and Johnson playing for him to only prove he could average like 35 a game.[/QUOTE]
Touch
[QUOTE=EnoughSaid]I can't believe you LeBron fans would rather prefer him staying in Cleveland with that garbage team in stead of coming over to the Heat to compete for a title.[/QUOTE]
Problem is, that team might not have been garbage looking at what's happened this year.
Varejao was a beast this year before his injury....
Jamison is a good number 2 for Kyrie right now
Mo was great the first half of the year off the clippers bench
Sessions molded into a damn good point guard
I wouldn't call that garbage.
To me it seems that Wade is holding Bosh back, not Lebron.
If anyone is holding James back, it has to be the OP.
How can LeBron go at full speed with pauk hanging so tightly on his nuts?
Lebron held Wade, and the rest of the Miami Heat organization back from winning it's second title. It was and always will be his fault. If he played just half of his abilities, he would have his ring, and would be playing alongside a 2 time FMVP. Fact is, I want to see this team win as many rings as possible as a Heat fan. I don't care who wins it for us, but somebody better get us that ring. If its Lebron leading I don't care. If its Wade or Bosh I don't care. Whoever it is better get us that trophy.
LeBron didn't only become hated because he went to Miami. He mostly became hated because he made a mockery of it.
He took a shit on Cleveland fans with the Decision TV special, then started to act like a hyper, retarded, immature girl with the disco dance specials celebrating the new Big 3.
If he handled it correctly, there would have been an entirely different stigma surrounding Miami.
[QUOTE=DMAVS41]Its abundantly clear and obvious that Lebron and Wade can't play at their peak level on the same team.
Which is exactly what a lot of people were curious to see how it would work.
Its not really an excuse...its about the limitations of each of their games so to speak. Put a guy like Kobe next to Lebron and it wouldn't be ideal, but it would be a better fit than Wade because of how good of a spot up shooter Kobe is.
Still should win the title and dominate teams though. While its not perfect, they should be able to make it work. Part of being a great basketball player is being able to play many different styles and with many different players and with many different coaches...etc.
If Lebron and Wade can't do that...then that takes away a bit from their greatness.[/QUOTE]
Thats all im trying to say....
[QUOTE=Brickz187]Lebron held Wade, and the rest of the Miami Heat organization back from winning it's second title. It was and always will be his fault. If he played just half of his abilities, he would have his ring, and would be playing alongside a 2 time FMVP. Fact is, I want to see this team win as many rings as possible as a Heat fan. I don't care who wins it for us, but somebody better get us that ring. If its Lebron leading I don't care. If its Wade or Bosh I don't care. Whoever it is better get us that trophy.[/QUOTE]
Actually... without Lebron Miami would have not even been in the Finals or even ECF.... the way he closed out the Celtics to get to ECF and the way he murdered Bulls (while Wade was absolutely horrible) got them to the Finals.... actually without Lebron there at all Wade was not able to get past 1st round since 2006...........
Please dont make this a Wade vs Lebron bash fest.... i love them, they are my favorite players..... but i DONT think they complement eachother so well.....
[QUOTE=Tenchi Ryu]Problem is, that team might not have been garbage looking at what's happened this year.
Varejao was a beast this year before his injury....
Jamison is a good number 2 for Kyrie right now
Mo was great the first half of the year off the clippers bench
Sessions molded into a damn good point guard
I wouldn't call that garbage.[/QUOTE]
Lebron has declined athletically and as a result his half court game has taken quite a large hit. I have great doubts that Cleveland would've been as good as they were in 09 and 10 unless they still did the Mo Williams trade which ended up with them getting Kyrie, which is possible. Without the Kyrie trade, they are probably the 4th or 5th best team in the East right now. With the trade, they are anywhere from the 1st to 3rd best team in the East.
Like I said from 05-10, Lebron put up 29/7/7 on 48% vs. 27/8/7 on 52% since he came to Miami.
On the other hand, from 05-10 Wade put up 27/5/7 on 48% vs. 25/6/5 on 50% since Lebron came to Miami.
I excluded their rookie years. There numbers haven't suffered that much and alot of that could be due to an athletic decline especially cause there game is so dependent on athleticism.
The greatest players rarely ever see that big of a statistical difference regardless of what situation they're in. Jordan's numbers didn't go down much once Pippen elevated his game. Kobe's numbers without Shaq are not significantly different then what they've been without him contrary to popular belief. Its not the star players that have to sacrifice much when they play on better teams. Its the role players and lesser stars who sacrifice their production first because first of all they're the first to have to sacrifice their minutes and second of all, they obviously they do and should defer to better players i.e. the stars.
[QUOTE=pauk]Actually... without Lebron Miami would have not even been in the Finals or even ECF.... the way he closed out the Celtics(while Wade was flat out the best player in that series) to get to ECF and the way he murdered Bulls (while Wade was absolutely horrible, but clutch) got them to the Finals.... actually without Lebron there at all Wade was not able to get past 1st round since 2006(and lebron wouldn't have made it to the Finals)...........[/QUOTE]
Fixed.
[QUOTE]Please dont make this a Wade vs Lebron bash fest.... i love them, they are my favorite players..... but i DONT think they complement eachother so well.....[/QUOTE]
I sort of agree. But Lebron should learn how to play off the ball. That's why he regresses when the ball is out of his hand.
[QUOTE=D-Wade316]
I sort of agree. But Lebron should learn how to play off the ball. That's why he regresses when the ball is out of his hand.[/QUOTE]
why should Lebron learn how to play off the ball when he is much better and more dominant with the ball in his hands anyway? You are essentially asking the best player in the league to change his game in order to defer to his inferior teammate...sorry brah, it doesn't work like that
[QUOTE=madmax]why should Lebron learn how to play off the ball when he is much better and more dominant with the ball in his hands anyway? You are essentially asking the best player in the league to change his game in order to defer to his inferior teammate...sorry brah, it doesn't work like that[/QUOTE]
Then what do you guys want? Do you wish that he had stayed in Cleveland? Didn't you all say that he didn't have enough help there? He teamed up with Wade because he knew he couldn't do it alone.
And learning to play off the ball is not deferring. It's just another skill that an elite player of his size should definitely work on.
The real best player in the league, Kevin Durant, almost always plays off the ball, so it's not like you have to be a ball dominant player to be the best.
[QUOTE=D-Wade316]Fixed.
I sort of agree. But Lebron should learn how to play off the ball. That's why he regresses when the ball is out of his hand.[/QUOTE]
Lebron is a better player than Wade... he is also non-injury proned, more consistant and younger... the ball should be in HIS hands...
The only one who should learn to play more off the ball is Wade... And Wade doesnt regress when the ball is out of his hand? when you are between Deron Williams and Russell Westbrook in PPG then you know that you as a superstar scorer have regressed...
LeBron should get the ball in the fourth quarter, because as others said, Wade is better off the ball, and Wade doesn't need a confidence boost (LeBron does, though). It's better for LeBron to get more confidence in the clutch. He's only been LeClutch about 5 times this year (twice against the Sixers, including last night, once against Pacers, once against Pistons, and once against Jazz, although he ruined it by not taking last shot). Plus, as great as Wade is, LeBron is LeBron, when he's firing on all cylinders, there's no one better than him (including Durant, stop riding his balls because you're desperate for someone to be better than LBJ :rolleyes:)
LOL you guys act like Lebron learning how to play off the ball better is a bad thing. It would be great for him and his team. Same thing goes for Wade.
[QUOTE=pegasus]Then what do you guys want? Do you wish that he had stayed in Cleveland? Didn't you all say that he didn't have enough help there? He teamed up with Wade because he knew he couldn't do it alone.
And learning to play off the ball is not deferring. It's just another skill that an elite player of his size should definitely work on.
The real best player in the league, Kevin Durant, almost always plays off the ball, so it's not like you have to be a ball dominant player to be the best.[/QUOTE]
what do we want?
How about Wade, being a SG and all that jazz, finally learns how to hit a damn jumper? Dude is already declining and blowing more layups at the rim than ever in his career, yet he still can't shoot worth a damn. And if one player is superior to another, you go on and tell me, which one should be adapting his game for the good of his team?
[QUOTE=pegasus]Then what do you guys want? Do you wish that he had stayed in Cleveland? Didn't you all say that he didn't have enough help there? He teamed up with Wade because he knew he couldn't do it alone.
And learning to play off the ball is not deferring. It's just another skill that an elite player of his size should definitely work on.
The real best player in the league, Kevin Durant, almost always plays off the ball, so it's not like you have to be a ball dominant player to be the best.[/QUOTE]
They're clueless about that cuz they know nothing about basketball. They HATE the idea of Lebron deferring to Wade or anybody else cuz it completely kills their Jordan comparisons. That being said, if he's been in the league for almost 9 years and STILL can't learn to play without the ball, something's wrong.
[QUOTE=madmax]what do we want?
How about Wade, being a SG and all that jazz, finally learns how to hit a damn jumper? Dude is already declining and blowing more layups at the rim than ever in his career, yet he still can't shoot worth a damn. And if one player is superior to another, you go on and tell me, which one should be adapting his game for the good of his team?[/QUOTE]
You're an idiot...And I say that being one of the biggest LeGod fans on this planet.
And Wade has changed his game to appease the presence of LeBron FYI.
[QUOTE=Kingwillball]Lebron is the better Player and in all truth I wish they traded Wade for D12(I know they never Would) but that would get Lebron his 6 or 7 championships.. Wade and Lebron in the halfcourt is like Oil and Water..[/QUOTE]
Yeah....trade away the one guy who actually wanted the ball and was actually doing something in last year's Finals. While Lebron just stood around all shook....right?:applause:
Makes sense if you don't think about it:facepalm
[QUOTE=Doctor Rivers]Wade is the 2nd best SG of all time... lebron can only hope to be half the finals performer he is[/QUOTE]
You really think Jordan is the third best SG all time?
Playoffs are just around the corner, guys.
I think this Heat team will be fine, with both clicking on all cylinders.
Playoff time comes, I doubt anybody is holding anybody else back.