If people are really born gay..

[QUOTE=bmulls]Liberal morons that are also apparently convinced of their intellectual superiority :rolleyes:

I just posted I'm atheist, I've never been religious and I've never had any religious conditioning "imprinted" on me. I also accept that homosexuality exists and I don't care if they get married.

With that said, I don't need to agree with it. There are more criminals in the United States than gay people. Does that make criminality right and normal? For a legal example, millions of people cheat on their significant others. Is this also right and normal?

The mere fact that people do something doesn't inherently make it a good thing.[/QUOTE]

You used two examples that have unambiguous moral interpretations (crime/cheating=bad) but homosexuality does follow those examples. Just saying "I dont agree with it" is your right but its open to well-deserved criticism.

Saying that your not religious doesnt suddenly make your stance legitimate.

[QUOTE=Rolando]The more men who are gay, the better. I learned this from living in SanFrancisco for a while. Having all those gay guys there helped me have sex with more women and I appreciate that very very much.

Memo to straight men: support gay rights, gay marriage and gay everything. These guys have decided to remove themselves from the "who gets to have sex with the women" competition. God Bless Them All.:cheers:[/QUOTE]

^
This.

More gay men means more women for the rest of us

for every gay man there is a gay woman...it doesn't mean more women for the rest of us...it all equals out

[QUOTE=-p.tiddy-][B]for every gay man there is a gay woman[/B]...it doesn't mean more women for the rest of us...it all equals out[/QUOTE]
:facepalm

You realize gays are attracted to people of the same sex right?

I hope I misunderstood what you posted.

[QUOTE=ace23]:facepalm

You realize gays are attracted to people of the same sex right?

I hope I misunderstood what you posted.[/QUOTE]

I think you did, I think he means that because 5% of the male population is gay (or whatever the statistic is) doesn't mean straight guys will get 5% more women to choose from because 5% of females will be gay too (making them unavailable).

I appreciate everybody's responses in this thread even if they disagreed, I still believe what I believe when I started this thread, per the constitution(not personal support it) I'm glad they got the right to marriage. I just hope homosexuals are as supportive for polygamist push their marriage to be legal, and homosexuality's cousin, beastility, makes a push for marriage, look at the article below, its just the beginning:
[QUOTE]Bestiality brothels are

[QUOTE=jdiaby]I appreciate everybody's responses in this thread even if they disagreed, I still believe what I believe when I started this thread, per the constitution(not personal support it) I'm glad they got the right to marriage. I just hope homosexuals are as supportive for polygamist push their marriage to be legal, and homosexuality's cousin, beastility, makes a push for marriage, look at the article below, its just the beginning:[/QUOTE]

Yeah it isn't the beginning of anything. These are all separate issues that need to be debated and either accepted or denied on their own merits. Animal or child sexual-relationships with adults involve a side that is not able to give consent, so I highly doubt they will ever be accepted by mainstream society.

I don't know if there's a legitimate "gay gene" or not. I think it makes sense that there would be one, considering how many homosexuals there are in society. I don't think roughly 10%+ of the world's population woke up one day and made the personal decision to be gay, but to some degree, I do believe choice is part of the equation. How big or small that piece to the puzzle truly is, up for debate I suppose.

I think it's a combination of both genetics and social environment, especially at the younger stages of one's life experiences. Many share this theory, but many others believe it's either one way or the other, no in-between. Many subscribe to the 85/15 split, meaning 85% genetics 15% social environment or vice versa. I'd say I'm more of the 85 / 15 split, but with one's social environment being the overwhelming factor.

Obviously, until science can progress further we'll never truly know.

[QUOTE=miller-time]I think you did, I think he means that because 5% of the male population is gay (or whatever the statistic is) doesn't mean straight guys will get 5% more women to choose from because 5% of females will be gay too (making them unavailable).[/QUOTE]
Exactly

[QUOTE=Hoodlum Science]I don't know if there's a legitimate "gay gene" or not. I think it makes sense that there would be one, considering how many homosexuals there are in society. I don't think roughly 10%+ of the world's population woke up one day and made the personal decision to be gay, but to some degree, I do believe choice is part of the equation. How big or small that piece to the puzzle truly is, up for debate I suppose.

I think it's a combination of both genetics and social environment, especially at the younger stages of one's life experiences. Many share this theory, but many others believe it's either one way or the other, no in-between. Many subscribe to the 85/15 split, meaning 85% genetics 15% social environment or vice versa. I'd say I'm more of the 85 / 15 split, but with one's social environment being the overwhelming factor.

Obviously, until science can progress further we'll never truly know.[/QUOTE]
Science has shown that gay males have brains that are the same shape as straight females and that gay females have a brain that is the same shape as straight males.

Google it...I know that sounds made up but its true.


I think that the vast majority of the time it is genetic...a case of wrong body to match the brain.

[QUOTE=-p.tiddy-]Science has shown that gay males have brains that are the same shape as straight females and that gay females have a brain that is the same shape as straight males.[/QUOTE]

I don't think it is the whole brain that is similar, but just certain sub-structures.

[QUOTE=-p.tiddy-]Science has shown that gay males have brains that are the same shape as straight females and that gay females have a brain that is the same shape as straight males.

Google it...I know that sounds made up but its true.


I think that the vast majority of the time it is genetic...a case of wrong body to match the brain.[/QUOTE]

I think I get the gist of what you're trying to say ... but I can't say I agree with it. At conception, a random roll of the dice determines body type A) and brain type B)? I'm sure you didn't mean to paint such a simplistic picture, but that's what I get from it. I think it's much more complicated than that.

Let's say it's genetics. Purely genetics. Dad busts into mom. What's to say if sperm A) is 50% more prone to be homosexual than sperm B)? Then how about sperm C) 33.72% likelihood said child is "born" homosexual. That's why I don't see genetics being as big a part of the equation as commonly thought. I think it's much more complicated, and there's a "cap" on just how "born gay" one can be, and the pushing, main driving factor in one's ultimate arrival at being a homosexual is primarily dictated by their (youthful) social environment.

I think some individuals are born more gay than others, and they have a much higher likelihood of ultimately being gay. I also believe these same individuals could turn out straight, and not gay. This is why I don't see genetics being an end-all be-all end result of one's sexual preference. I think genetically some are more prone to being homosexual than others (like depression, or any other disorder), but combined with social environment, solidifies where they land.

Having said that, people who claim to be gay later on in life change to being straight. Then they go back to being gay. Some switch only once; some switch multiple times. This tells me it's not entirely genetics, and much more a choice in their personal lives. I'm not saying one choice is right and one choice is wrong, I'm just saying these circumstances with these individuals tell me social environment plays a much more vital role in their sexual preference than the grade of gasoline dad pumped into mom's tank.

[QUOTE=jdiaby]Stop making excuses for ******ry:coleman: , if gay people are really born gay and can't help their ways and wish they were so normal, shouldn't they really push to find the gay gene and eliminate it, become normal and rather than push for same-sex marriage.[/QUOTE]

:facepalm Gay people dont want to be straight, if they do it is only because the dominant majority (in this case straight bigots like you) have made their lives so horrible they can't stand it.

For large portions of American history white people made non-white people desire to be white. They didnt really want to be white, its just that whiteness had huge advantages associated with it.

Dont worry man there are virtually 0 case of gay men raping straight men. Just say no.

[QUOTE=miller-time]Yeah it isn't the beginning of anything. These are all separate issues that need to be debated and either accepted or denied on their own merits. Animal or child sexual-relationships with adults involve a side that is not able to give consent, so I highly doubt they will ever be accepted by mainstream society.[/QUOTE]

It's funny you choose to address one part of my post, but I'll entertain you regardless. Beastility consider it "lifestyle choices" if you saw the article I referenced in the previous post. Which is the same agrument homosexuals initially made. Polygamist such as Mormon and Muslims make the same argument that its a "lifestyle choice", I hope your as supportive as you are of gay rights as the other 2 groups otherwise your a hypocrite.

[QUOTE=Hoodlum Science]Having said that, people who claim to be gay later on in life change to being straight. Then they go back to being gay. Some switch only once; some switch multiple times. This tells me it's not entirely genetics, and much more a choice in their personal lives. I'm not saying one choice is right and one choice is wrong, I'm just saying these circumstances with these individuals tell me social environment plays a much more vital role in their sexual preference than the grade of gasoline dad pumped into mom's tank.[/QUOTE]

Often those choices are really just due to repression or uncertainty. They are caused by internal or external pressures. If you remove the pressure then the person will snap back to their default orientation. Remember a choice is only temporary. I can choose to eat a banana (and I have done) even though I really don't like them but at the end of the day I am always going to internally disagree with my choice (no matter how much my choice might please others).

To add, the banana isn't a euphemism lol, I really do dislike them.

[QUOTE=Hoodlum Science]I think I get the gist of what you're trying to say ... but I can't say I agree with it. At conception, a random roll of the dice determines body type A) and brain type B)? I'm sure you didn't mean to paint such a simplistic picture, but that's what I get from it. I think it's much more complicated than that.

[B]Let's say it's genetics. Purely genetics. Dad busts into mom. What's to say if sperm A) is 50% more prone to be homosexual than sperm B)? Then how about sperm C) 33.72% likelihood said child is "born" homosexual. That's why I don't see genetics being as big a part of the equation as commonly thought. I think it's much more complicated, and there's a "cap" on just how "born gay" one can be, and the pushing, main driving factor in one's ultimate arrival at being a homosexual is primarily dictated by their (youthful) social environment.[/B]

I think some individuals are born more gay than others, and they have a much higher likelihood of ultimately being gay. I also believe these same individuals could turn out straight, and not gay. This is why I don't see genetics being an end-all be-all end result of one's sexual preference. I think genetically some are more prone to being homosexual than others (like depression, or any other disorder), but combined with social environment, solidifies where they land.

Having said that, people who claim to be gay later on in life change to being straight. Then they go back to being gay. Some switch only once; some switch multiple times. This tells me it's not entirely genetics, and much more a choice in their personal lives. I'm not saying one choice is right and one choice is wrong, I'm just saying these circumstances with these individuals tell me social environment plays a much more vital role in their sexual preference than the grade of gasoline dad pumped into mom's tank.[/QUOTE]
:biggums:

[QUOTE=jdiaby]There is nothing rational about a dikk in the anus, thats why grown man that partake in the acts have to wear diapers. Tell me a some benefits of homosexuality on society other than the lame population control theory?[/QUOTE]

Gay men like taking ***** in the ass, because they were born that way. As straight men we cant comprehend that, because we were born straight. Your lack of understand how they can enjoy receptive **** sex, is evidence that they didn't choose to be gay.

[QUOTE=MavsSuperFan]:facepalm Gay people dont want to be straight, if they do it is only because the dominant majority (in this case straight bigots like you) have made their lives so horrible they can't stand it.

For large portions of American history white people made non-white people desire to be white. They didnt really want to be white, its just that whiteness had huge advantages associated with it.

Dont worry man there are virtually 0 case of gay men raping straight men. Just say no.[/QUOTE]

First off you got me messed up, how I am bigot cause I don't accept the gay lifestyle? Its wrong, **** what you heard!!
Second, Im Arab ( many circles I would and am considered black), alot black people if they could would try to pass for white if they could, its why alot of you white posters wouldn't want you future daughters with black man. You kind made my agrument for me, just in the same way blacks want to be accepted into white America, gays want their "lifestyle choices" to be accepted into American society, I'll leave up to you which you think is right and wrong.

[QUOTE=MavsSuperFan]Gay men like taking ***** in the ass, because they were born that way. As straight men we cant comprehend that, because we were born straight. Your lack of understand how they can enjoy receptive **** sex, is evidence that they didn't choose to be gay.[/QUOTE]

Real talk if you really believe an asshole is made for ****ing this conversation is over, really, really:biggums: :coleman: :biggums: :biggums:

You think people that **** animals, kids, trees, etc... like being fringe of society as well, if that your agrument end it:facepalm :facepalm :facepalm :facepalm :facepalm :facepalm

[QUOTE=miller-time][B]Often those choices are really just due to repression or uncertainty. They are caused by internal or external pressures. If you remove the pressure then the person will snap back to their default orientation[/B]. Remember a choice is only temporary. I can choose to eat a banana (and I have done) even though I really don't like them but at the end of the day I am always going to internally disagree with my choice (no matter how much my choice might please others).

To add, the banana isn't a euphemism lol, I really do dislike them.[/QUOTE]

OK, so let's say subject A) arrived at "default" sexual orientation of being straight. Then a year later they're gay. Two years after that, they're straight, then gay again, then back to being straight, and now finally they're gay. Is that individual gay or straight? We don't know, they don't know. The fact they even had homosexual tendencies to begin with, does that mean they're gay, period - no question's asked?

This further makes it clear you can't be born 100% gay. If the subject example above keeps flipping back and forth, doesn't it demonstrate they're more bi-sexual? Alright, so if it's 100% pure genetics; either you're born gay, you're born homosexual, or you're born bi-sexual, there shouldn't be so much flip-flopping, right?

It doesn't make sense that you are born 100% gay. Wouldn't you agree? Especially these people who keep switching teams, right? Doesn't it make more sense to subscribe to the % this and % that theory?

[QUOTE=jdiaby]Real talk if you really believe an asshole is made for ****ing this conversation is over, really, really:biggums: :coleman: :biggums: :biggums:[/QUOTE]

It isn't what it is made for, it is something that is used for sexual gratification. Same with mouths and hands and toys. Do you think oral sex is unacceptable because mouths aren't made to be used on genitals?

[QUOTE=jdiaby]Real talk if you really believe an asshole is made for ****ing this conversation is over, really, really:biggums: :coleman: :biggums: :biggums:

You think people that **** animals, kids, trees, etc... like being fringe of society as well, if that your agrument end it:facepalm :facepalm :facepalm :facepalm :facepalm :facepalm[/QUOTE]

Straight men have **** sex with women too. You know that right?

Sex is for fun. If you have fun having someone step on you balls (some people are into this) what is the harm as long as it is consensual?

[QUOTE=Jello]:biggums:[/QUOTE]

I suppose that simply went way over your head, because it seemed pretty clear to me. Nothing difficult to understand about that, and wasn't some far left field shit. Seems much more to me you're just one of those who can't see there could be a middle ground. All or nothing, right? Either you're born homo, or no. If that's your stance, I'd like to hear an explanation.

[QUOTE=Hoodlum Science]OK, so let's say subject A) arrived at "default" sexual orientation of being straight. Then a year later they're gay. Two years after that, they're straight, then gay again, then back to being straight, and now finally they're gay. Is that individual gay or straight? We don't know, they don't know. The fact they even had homosexual tendencies to begin with, does that mean they're gay, period - no question's asked?

This further makes it clear you can't be born 100% gay. If the subject example above keeps flipping back and forth, doesn't it demonstrate they're more bi-sexual? Alright, so if it's 100% pure genetics; either you're born gay, you're born homosexual, or you're born bi-sexual, there shouldn't be so much flip-flopping, right?

It doesn't make sense that you are born 100% gay. Wouldn't you agree? Especially these people who keep switching teams, right? Doesn't it make more sense to subscribe to the % this and % that theory?[/QUOTE]

Do you have an example? I don't even know how you came up with this idea that there is a person that is constantly going back and forth over many years being gay and straight? If that person exists then they might be bi, they might have some social factor influencing their choice (such as community, family, or religion), they might simply be choosing to override their natural proclivity because they can.

I don't have a problem with the idea that sexuality lies on a continuum but unless you are in the middle bit where you are attracted to both males and females OR you have other pressures then I don't think anyone is going back and forth between straight and gay.

[QUOTE=miller-time]It isn't what it is made for, it is something that is used for sexual gratification. Same with mouths and hands and toys. Do you think oral sex is unacceptable because mouths aren't made to be used on genitals?[/QUOTE]

Oral sex is just that "Oral Sex" its not the intended way for sexual gratification, get this for"BOTH PARTNERS", i think most recognize that, why don't you address my other points?:coleman:

Nothing to see here. Jdiaby thinks gay dudes having gay sex is really icky and he's performing extraordinary mental gymnastics trying to justify his bigotry. Unfortunately, like a huge % of the population, he's too stupid to realize it.

[QUOTE=miller-time]Do you have an example? I don't even know how you came up with this idea that there is a person that is constantly going back and forth over many years being gay and straight? If that person exists then they might be bi, they might have some social factor influencing their choice (such as community, family, or religion), they might simply be choosing to override their natural proclivity because they can.

I don't have a problem with the idea that sexuality lies on a continuum but unless you are in the middle bit where you are attracted to both males and females OR you have other pressures then I don't think anyone is going back and forth between straight and gay.[/QUOTE]

Do I have a personal example? No, but realistically, does that matter? Clearly, we can't deny this individual doesn't exist. This person does exist, and has many times over. What I'm saying is there are many people in this world who are confused about their sexuality ... and I strongly believe this isn't because they're born 100% bi-sexual - meaning they like men 50% and women 50% equally. IMO, it'd be more like they like men 16% and women 84%.

I think 100% of men are born with an overwhelming percentage being naturally attracted to men, but also that 100% of men are born with something as low as 000001% (just a random number), meaning men are by default born attract to women primarily, but that some men are born more naturally attracted to other men, but that there's a cap, and there's nothing like a man being born 95% attracted to other men 5% to men; if anything the other way around.

... and again, one's social environment, being the flagship factor in how one arrives at being homosexual. I don't mean that in a disrespectful manner. It's not meant to be that way. If you're gay, OK you're gay, you were perhaps born more gay than the next man, and perhaps there were circumstances that happens to you that didn't happen to others, and maybe that "pushed" you into being your specific sexual orientation. Maybe nothing happened.

[QUOTE=Hoodlum Science]I think I get the gist of what you're trying to say ... but I can't say I agree with it. At conception, a random roll of the dice determines body type A) and brain type B)? I'm sure you didn't mean to paint such a simplistic picture, but that's what I get from it. I think it's much more complicated than that.

Let's say it's genetics. Purely genetics. Dad busts into mom. What's to say if sperm A) is 50% more prone to be homosexual than sperm B)? Then how about sperm C) 33.72% likelihood said child is "born" homosexual. That's why I don't see genetics being as big a part of the equation as commonly thought. I think it's much more complicated, and there's a "cap" on just how "born gay" one can be, and the pushing, main driving factor in one's ultimate arrival at being a homosexual is primarily dictated by their (youthful) social environment.

I think some individuals are born more gay than others, and they have a much higher likelihood of ultimately being gay. I also believe these same individuals could turn out straight, and not gay. This is why I don't see genetics being an end-all be-all end result of one's sexual preference. I think genetically some are more prone to being homosexual than others (like depression, or any other disorder), but combined with social environment, solidifies where they land.

Having said that, people who claim to be gay later on in life change to being straight. Then they go back to being gay. Some switch only once; some switch multiple times. This tells me it's not entirely genetics, and much more a choice in their personal lives. I'm not saying one choice is right and one choice is wrong, I'm just saying these circumstances with these individuals tell me social environment plays a much more vital role in their sexual preference than the grade of gasoline dad pumped into mom's tank.[/QUOTE]

I might be talking out of my ass here, but I think when they talk about being born gay they aren't necessarily talking about chromosomal genetics.

At certain points in a baby's development the brain is exposed to testosterone and other hormones that shape it into a male or female brain. When this process malfunctions a baby girl's brain might get too much testosterone and a baby boy might get too little. Therefore they have definite structural differences in their brains vs. straight people, but it's not a result of genetics.

I'm sure this is ridiculously simplified and there are a lot more hormones and processes involved but I believe that's the gist of it.

Why are some of you guys so threatened by the idea that other men could enjoy gay sex? None of what they do has any impact on your life at all.

[QUOTE=bmulls]I might be talking out of my ass here, but I think when they talk about being born gay they aren't necessarily talking about chromosomal genetics.

At certain points in a baby's development the brain is exposed to testosterone and other hormones that shape it into a male or female brain. When this process malfunctions a baby girl's brain might get too much testosterone and a baby boy might get too little. Therefore they have definite structural differences in their brains vs. straight people, but it's not a result of genetics.

I'm sure this is ridiculously simplified and there are a lot more hormones and processes involved but I believe that's the gist of it.[/QUOTE]

OK, so you basically agree you can't be born 100% gay or 100% straight?

[QUOTE=MavsSuperFan]Why are some of you guys so threatened by the idea that other men could enjoy gay sex? None of what they do has any impact on your life at all.[/QUOTE]

gay sex is so gross

imagine two women playing with each others tittyballs

[QUOTE=jdiaby]and there is gay gene that makes people gay. Wouldn't be in this best interest to society to isolate the gay gene and make homosexuality obsolete as its counterproductive to the evolution and progression of our species?[/QUOTE]

funny you would say that

if a gay gene existed it would naturally erase itself

a gay gene would be constantly declining in frequency relative to the straight gene. the main reason any gene would increase in frequency is because it gives an organism some kind of reproductive advantage, obviously gay people dont have any reproductive advantages over straight people.

By the same logic we should isolate the people with the same low iq as yourself and kill you all

[QUOTE=jdiaby]Oral sex is just that "Oral Sex" its not the intended way for sexual gratification, get this for"BOTH PARTNERS", i think most recognize that, why don't you address my other points?:coleman:[/QUOTE]

[COLOR="Black"]A[/COLOR]nal sex works for both partners. I'll get to your other points when you can at least tell me why a[COLOR="Black"]n[/COLOR]al sex is somehow unacceptable when any other form of non-va[COLOR="Black"]g[/COLOR]inall intercourse is fine?

[QUOTE=Hoodlum Science]OK, so you basically agree you can't be born 100% gay or 100% straight?[/QUOTE]

I agree with that, but I also think brain chemistry and sexual attraction is a whole lot more complicated than just some X% gay and some Y% straight.

[QUOTE=bmulls]I agree with that, but I also think brain chemistry and sexual attraction is a whole lot more complicated than just some X% gay and some Y% straight.[/QUOTE]

Can you explain what he is trying to say? I can't even follow it lol. It mostly just sounds like conjecture.

[QUOTE=MavsSuperFan]Why are some of you guys so threatened by the idea that other men could enjoy gay sex? None of what they do has any impact on your life at all.[/QUOTE]

This is what I ask people when discussing gay marriage. I'm pretty conservative and so are most of the people I hang out with, so naturally they are against gay marriage and I just can't wrap my head around it.

You could legalize gay marriage tomorrow and I wouldn't know about it for months or years unless someone told me it happened. Gay people getting married or having sex does not affect my life in any way, shape or form. I can't pretend to understand or sympathize with homosexuality, but I understand these people are being made to suffer for no reason and that is just straight up wrong.

[QUOTE=miller-time]Can you explain what he is trying to say? I can't even follow it lol. It mostly just sounds like conjecture.[/QUOTE]

I think his main point is nurture, rather than nature, is the primary factor in determining homosexuality.

We all fall somewhere on the sexual attraction continuum, having X% preference for men and Y% preference for women. He believes all men are born with the majority of their sexual attraction toward women, and that a certain guy with 10X/90Y split could turn out gay if he's exposed to certain factors as a kid while another guy with a 15X/85Y split might turn out straight.

[QUOTE=bmulls]I think his main point is nurture, rather than nature, is the primary factor in determining homosexuality.

We all fall somewhere on the sexual attraction continuum, having X% preference for men and Y% preference for women. He believes all men are born with the majority of their sexual attraction toward women, and that a certain guy with 10X/90Y split could turn out gay if he's exposed to certain factors as a kid while another guy with a 15X/85Y split might turn out straight.[/QUOTE]

Spot-on.

[QUOTE=bmulls]This is what I ask people when discussing gay marriage. [B]I'm pretty conservative and so are most of the people I hang out with, so naturally they are against gay marriage and I just can't wrap my head around it. [/B]

You could legalize gay marriage tomorrow and I wouldn't know about it for months or years unless someone told me it happened. Gay people getting married or having sex does not affect my life in any way, shape or form. I can't pretend to understand or sympathize with homosexuality, but I understand these people are being made to suffer for no reason and that is just straight up wrong.[/QUOTE]

amen. it amazes and confuses me that so many of the religious conservatives surrounding me in the midwest perform the mental gymnastics required in order to support laws against gay marriage.

people that call themselves christians have been seen protesting a lot of things, but has anybody ever witnessed a christian protesting against divorce lawyers? if anybody has actually read a bible, divorce is a lot worse than homosexuality. to hear these people say things like gay people threaten the [I]sanctity of marriage[/I] while ~50% of marriages result in divorce is mind bogglingly hypocritical. when was the last time a church turned down a wedding because one of the parties involved was previously divorced?

also, i thought conservatives wanted the government to get the hell out of their lives. allowing uncle sam to deny the rights of two consenting adults or tell them that they are not allowed to love each other is the opposite of small government.