Anthropomorphic Measurement of NBA bigmen 60s/70s vs Modern NBA era

[QUOTE=Linspired]no doubt hayes will be an elite sprinter in any era, but he won't be shaving .48 sec even with all the nutrients, training, and new pair of shoes. and old

bolt is just a freak who is way way ahead of his time. i thought 9.5s would happen in 2030 or so. he is just a freak of nature.[/QUOTE]

I agree about Bolt...which is precisely my point. The AVERAGE athlete is better today, than they were 10-20-30-40-50 years ago. MARGINALLY better. And 30 years from now, they will be MARGINALLY better than what we see today.

Having said that, though, there are these "freaks" who pop up every generation, or so. Look at Shaq. 7-1, 325-350 lbs, with exceptional athleticism, and in his prime, even amazing endurance. He was at his peak in 2000, or so. Where are the new Shaq's?

Then go back to Chamberlain. The fact is, there has not been anyone even remotely close to his size, strength, and athletcism, INCLUDING Shaq. IN his era, Wilt was considered not only the strongest basketball player, but among the strongest ATHLETES in the WORLD. Many here today scoff at the notion that Wilt could bench 500+ lbs, but just google his strength. Why is the internet just plastered with these accounts (even eye-witness one's), which credit him wiith that feat...and yet, there are virtually NO legitimate claims to DISPUTE them?

Speed? A case could be made that Wilt may very well have been the fastest basketball player of all-time. Here again, the "ESPN generation" posters will laugh at anyone who suggests such a thing. BUT, think about this...he was a SPRINTER on KU's 4x100 team. And Wilt, himself, claimed to have run a 4.4 40. Now before anyone jumps in and rips that comment as some kind of "embellishment" on Chamberlain's part, ... Wilt was timed in a 4.6 40 in the mid-60's, at age 27, and at 290 lbs, by none other than Hank Stram. Now, does a 22 year old Wilt, at around 250-260 lbs, running a 4.4 seem so unbelieveable?

Leaping ability? Recently Sports Science ran an episode in which Dwight Howard supposedly broke Shaq's "record" by an NBA player, which was a leap that reached 12' 5", with one of 12' 6". Pretty amazing for a 6-10 leaper. HOWEVER, there are at least two eye-witness accounts of Wilt touching the top of the backboard (not to mention that Wilt, himself, claims such a feat.) One was by Philly sports icon, Sonny Hill, and the other by long time Sixer trainer, Al Domenico. Here again, though, many of the current generation just laughed that off as a joke. BUT, we have solid footage of Wilt blocking a shot, in a leap in which he has no time to react, goes straight up (no running start like Howard in that episode), and blocks it with his off-hand...and with his fingertips within a couple of inches of the top of the backboard. Not only that, but we also have footage of a 34 year old Chamberlain, at 300+ lbs, and on a surgically repaired knee, again blocking a shot, and in the same circumstances (no time to react, and going straight up) in which his fingertips are above the top of the square (and probably close to 12'.)

Not only that, but we have video footage (of what was a COMMON occurance) in which an old Chamberlain blocks TWO straight Kareem sky-hooks...in the AIR (not while still in his hand.) Incidently, there are a known 29 Chamberlain blocks of Kareem's shots (obviously many of them "sky-hooks") and in just SIX of their 28 H2H games (as well as another account of NUMEROUS blocks.) Given the fact that the two went H2H 28 times, there is a good chance that Chamberlain probably blocked some 50 "unblockable" sky-hooks in his career.

Then, there is a video taped conversation, with none other than Tex Winter, who claims to have witnessed a high school Wilt, with three steps from behind the FT line, dunking the ball with a leap from behind the FT line. He was so stunned, that he engineered the rule that prevented the dunking of FTs, as he said, because of "freakish activity."

Finally, Wilt's college coach, Phog Allen, rolled out a 12 ft. basket back in the 50's, and there are accounts of Wilt dunking on it (of course, including Wilt himself.) There are those today who can dunk on a 12 ft. rim, but they are world class leapers.

There were other great NBA athletes in the 60's and 70's, as well. Bill Russell was ranked seventh in the WORLD in the high-jump in the 50's. Gus Johnson made a leap, withg multiple eye-witnesses in attendance, in which he touched a nail, in 1963, that only Joey Johnson could duplicate some 25 years later. Joey Johnson? Google him. He was 6-4 and could get his chin above the rim, and was credited with a 50+" vertical. Hell, you can go back to the late 40's, when Jim Pollard, who was 6-4 and white, was known to have been dunking a ball with a running leap from behind the FT line.

I have already presented the fact that Bob Hayes is still the fastest legitimate NFL football player of all-time. He ran a 10.06 100 meters in the mid-60's. And, as Bwink mentioned, Darrell Green and Bo Jackson, who were at their peaks in the 80's, were running sub 4.2 40's (as was Deion Sanders.) And 6-2 220 lb. Hershel Walker was a WORLD CLASS sprinter in the 80's, (as was OJ Simpson in the 60's.)

Who hit the longest HRs ever measured? None other than 5-11 190 lb. Mickey Mantle. And he hit MANY 500+ ft. HRs, as well. Just google him. There has never been anyone else, including a PED-enhanced McGwire, who could a ball as far. And Nolan Ryan was clocked at 101 MPH, on his 162nd pitch, in a game in 1974...by a SLOW gun. There is an article which claims that Ryan's fastest pitches would be measured at around 107 MPH with the faster radar guns used today. My god, at age 46, and on an injured arm, his LAST pitch was clocked at 98 MPH. And there were many who would claim that the unknown Steve Dalkowski, who was laboring in the minors in the 50's and 60's, was the fastest pitcher of all-time (just google him.)

The bottom line is that why virtually every generation becomes bigger, stronger, faster, and more athletic, it is by only MARGINAL amounts. And, clearly, there have been these athletic "freaks" that only come around every 25-50 years, as well.

Now I'm 100% sure Jlaube is actually clowning some other user. No way you spent all that time writing that totally hs post.

[QUOTE=jlauber]
The bottom line is that why virtually every generation becomes bigger, stronger, faster, and more athletic, it is by only MARGINAL amounts. And, clearly, there have been these athletic "freaks" that only come around every 25-50 years, as well.[/QUOTE]

True, but still it's a fact that there's a huge difference in terms of athleticism in the '60's compared to today.

[QUOTE=millwad]True, but still it's a fact that there's a huge difference in terms of athleticism in the '60's compared to today.[/QUOTE]

It depends on the sport. Clearly the average football player is much bigger, and overall, slightly faster. We have 350 lb. linemen, and even QBs in the 260 lb range (as well as QBs running 4.3 40's today.)

And there are some track events in which the differences are considerable. The high-jump is a great example. BUT, the TECHNIQUES, as well as the SURFACES are much different. Hell, a guy would have broken his back or neck doing the "Fosbury Flop" in the 50's, with the landing areas that existed back then.

And of course the pole vault, with much better equipment, is considerably higher.

I recall a couple of years ago, that swimming records were being smashed because of the body suits, too.

But, here again, the SPEED of the fastest NFL players is nowhere near it's peak in today's NFL. Chris Johnson would be smoked by Hershel Walker, Deion Sanders, Bo Jackson, Darrell Green, and Bob Hayes. There were players like Travis Williams, Henry Childs, and OJ in the 60's, as well, as Cliff Branch, and the Cardinals Mel Gray in the 70's, who would be the fastest NFL players today.

And I mentioned Mickey Mantle, but there were other's too. There is footage of Reggie Jackson's '71 All-Star game shot on YouTube. Willie Stargell, Frank Howard (who was 6-8 and 250 lbs in the 60's), Willie McCovey, and Harmon Killebrew, were smashing "tape-measure" bombs in the 60's, too. Even Lou Brock, who was never known as a HR hitter, hit a monster shot out of the Polo Grounds.

Ryan may very well have been the hardest thrower of all-time, but again, just google Steve Dalkowski (as a sidenote, "The Wild Thing" from the movie Major League, was supposedly based on either Dalkowski, or Ryne Duran.) And supposedly Bob Feller would have been measured at over 100 with a modern gun. Even Sandy Koufax, who I believe was estimated in the high 90's, was deceptive. He had to SLOW down his fastbasll to control it.

In any case, if you really examine the sport, and take into account advances in equipment, training, and medical technology, there is probably very little differences in performances in the last 50+ years.

[QUOTE=Linspired]long jump is notable for several of the longest-standing world records. my guess is that there is a limit to how far we can jump. jesse owens record stood for like 25 years. it gets broken every 25 years or so. lol

[B]but that doesn't change the fact that 'speed' of the game is much faster right now then back in 60's[/B].[/QUOTE]

I don't think there is ANY evidence that suggests that the "speed of the game is much faster right now." This past season the NBA averaged 96.3 ppg. In the 60's, it was between 112 to 119 ppg. And take a look at the footage of the NBA in the 80's, too (particularly Laker highlights.)

[QUOTE=jlauber]It depends on the sport. Clearly the average football player is much bigger, and overall, slightly faster. We have 350 lb. linemen, and even QBs in the 260 lb range (as well as QBs running 4.3 40's today.)
[/QUOTE]


Obviously.

[QUOTE=jlauber]
And there are some track events in which the differences are considerable. The high-jump is a great example. BUT, the TECHNIQUES, as well as the SURFACES are much different. Hell, a guy would have broken his back or neck doing the "Fosbury Flop" in the 50's, with the landing areas that existed back then.
[/QUOTE]


Obviously.

[QUOTE=jlauber]
And of course the pole vault, with much better equipment, is considerably higher.
[/QUOTE]


Obviously.

[QUOTE=jlauber]
I recall a couple of years ago, that swimming records were being smashed because of the body suits, too. [/QUOTE]


Yes, it almost ruined the sport, they banned them now.
But now when the body suits are gone, they still swim way faster than what they did decades ago, especially compared to the 60's...

[QUOTE=jlauber]
But, here again, the SPEED of the fastest NFL players is nowhere near it's peak in today's NFL. Chris Johnson would be smoked by Hershel Walker, Deion Sanders, Bo Jackson, Darrell Green, and Bob Hayes. There were players like Travis Williams, Henry Childs, and OJ in the 60's, as well, as Cliff Branch, and the Cardinals Mel Gray in the 70's, who would be the fastest NFL players today. [/QUOTE]


Walker played in the 80's and 90's, Deion reitred 7 years ago, Jackson played in the late 80's and so did Green. Hayes was beyond amazing. Not too aware of NFL to make any comments regarding it but you started off with naming modern era players.


I'm sure that the modern players are more athletic compared to the players of the 60's.

[QUOTE=jlauber]
And I mentioned Mickey Mantle, but there were other's too. There is footage of Reggie Jackson's '71 All-Star game shot on YouTube. Willie Stargell, Frank Howard (who was 6-8 and 250 lbs in the 60's), Willie McCovey, and Harmon Killebrew, were smashing "tape-measure" bombs in the 60's, too. Even Lou Brock, who was never known as a HR hitter, hit a monster shot out of the Polo Grounds. [/QUOTE]


You mention certain events and player, I mean overall. In the NBA they had freaks like Chamberlain and Russell who would be just as freaky in terms of being athletic compared to modern players but that's not my point. My point is that overall players are more athletic in the modern era of sports compared to what they used to be in the 60's.

[QUOTE=jlauber]
In any case, if you really examine the sport, and take into account advances in equipment, training, and medical technology, there is probably very little differences in performances in the last 50+ years.[/QUOTE]

Sure thing, I've never denied that the modern era players have better equipment, better way of practice and medical technology. But it's still a fact if you compare the players of the 60's to the one's we got today, that the modern era players are far more athletic.

[QUOTE=Punpun]Now I'm 100% sure Jlaube is actually clowning some other user. No way you spent all that time writing that totally hs post.[/QUOTE]

Can't confirm it but I've heard that Jlauber copy and pastes alot of stuff from other sites and then makes them his own by editing them some.

Unfortunately, there is very little footage of Gus Johnson in the 60's, when he was at his peak athleticism. Here is some footage of Johnson late in his career, and with bad knees...

[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NkzRjMC1ZpI[/url]

What is noteworthy, though, was his excellent shooting range of 15-18 ft. I bring that up because he was a BEAST in his prime. Walt Frazier mentions it in that video, but Gus shattered THREE backboards in his career. He was 6-6 and around 230 lbs.

And I have posted this before, but for those that may not have read it...

[url]http://www.cornerclubmoscow.com/joomla/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=1&Itemid=2[/url]

[QUOTE]When Johnson played at Idaho in 1963, he already had a reputation as a leaper of the highest order. One evening at the Corner Club, a local tavern on Main Street in Moscow, Johnson was requested by owner Herm Goetz to display his rare ability to the patrons. The Corner Club was a very modest establishment, converted from a white-stuccoed small chapel in the 1940s with hardwood floors and a beamed ceiling. From a standing start near the bar, Johnson touched a spot on a beam 11'6" (3.505 m) above the floor. This spot was ceremoniously marked with a nail by Goetz, who then proudly proclaimed that anyone who could duplicate the feat could drink for free. A 40-inch (1.016 m) diameter circle was painted on the floor, and both feet had to start inside the circle to ensure a standing start. A full 23 years went by with many attempts at Gus Johnson's Nail, including Bill Walton in the summer of 1984, but there were no successes.

That was until 1986, when the College of Southern Idaho basketball team from Twin Falls stopped in town in January on their way to a game against NIC in Coeur d'Alene. Joey Johnson, a younger brother of then NBA star Dennis Johnson, was brought into the Corner Club for a try. The 6'3" (1.905 m) guard had a 48" (1.219 m) vertical leap and could put his chin on a basketball rim (10 feet (3.048 m)) with a running start.

Johnson laced up his shoes and touched the nail on his first try but was disqualified because he did not start with both feet inside the 40-inch circle. The next attempt came from a legal static start but was just a bit short. On his third try, Johnson grabbed and bent the legendary nail, a landmark event in Vandal sports history. Goetz pulled the nail out of the beam and pounded it back in, a half inch (13 mm) higher.

[/QUOTE]

So, here is what we know...Gus was a full 6-6, 230 lbs, and had a vertical of somewhere around 45+".

Then, take a look at the video footage of his SKILLS above.

And yet, he was a career 17 ppg, 13 rpg, .440 shooter. His career high in scoring was 20.7 ppg, and late in his career (and on bad knees) he averaged 17 rpg. And, in the mid-60's he was shooting as low as .413.

So, here was an athletic MONSTER, with solid SKILLS...and yet, how come he wasn't putting up 30-20 seasons on the "unathletic" players of the 60's?

[QUOTE]Walker played in the 80's and 90's, Deion reitred 7 years ago, Jackson played in the late 80's and so did Green. Hayes was beyond amazing. Not too aware of NFL to make any comments regarding it but you started off with naming modern era players.


I'm sure that the modern players are more athletic compared to the players of the 60's.[/QUOTE]

Green was running 10.08 100 meters in 1983. Walker ran a 9.2 100 yard dash in high school in 1979. Jackson was running world-class 60 meter times in the mid-80's. I have also mentioned it previously, but Green, at age 50, went out an ran a 4.43! Think about that...how many NFL players, TODAY, can run a legit 4.43? It is not very many. In any case, he was supposedly clocked at a 4.15 in his prime...and some 30 years ago.

damn son, russell was crazy athletic.

[QUOTE=Lebron23][img]http://assets.nydailynews.com/polopoly_fs/1.1100470.1340349051!/img/httpImage/image.jpg_gen/derivatives/landscape_635/image.jpg[/img][/QUOTE]
[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/s1Tlm.jpg[/IMG]

DWIGHT HOWARD COULDNT PLAY TODAY DOE

[QUOTE=jlauber]I don't think there is ANY evidence that suggests that the "speed of the game is much faster right now." This past season the NBA averaged 96.3 ppg. In the 60's, it was between 112 to 119 ppg. And take a look at the footage of the NBA in the 80's, too (particularly Laker highlights.)[/QUOTE]

i wasn't talking the pace of the game. i believe athlete's game speed has gotten so much faster. just look at the NFL. i love watching old school 60's packers or even mid 70's steelers football. the game speed has gained tremendously. It became so fast and violent that now they are turning the sports i love to a flag football. yes, the game speed beteen 80's and today are pretty much the same, but 50's and 60's? NBA was in an infant stage back then, and they just didn't have a big enough talent pool yet.

i think it's important that we shouldn't just handpick elite vs. elite. Wilt is a freak in any era for sure. Russell would no doubt be a DPOY in any era. but you gotta look at the entire league vs. entire league, and when you take a close look, the big noticeable difference isn't in players height, but in players game speed in more weight they carry. it's kinda like in NFL where the players height has been stabilized(except QBs), yet player's weight continues to grow.

[QUOTE=Colbertnation64][IMG]http://i.imgur.com/s1Tlm.jpg[/IMG]

DWIGHT HOWARD COULDNT PLAY TODAY DOE[/QUOTE]

bad angle shot is bad angle shot. go look at 2 pictures i posted in previous pages. Dwight clearly has couple of inches on bron. I don't believe Bron grew since he came into the league, but i believe dwight might have gained 1/2 inch, so he is probably upto 6ft 9 1/2. He is very close to 6ft 10 1/4 bosh in many pics i've seen with very good angles.

[QUOTE=jlauber]Green was running 10.08 100 meters in 1983. Walker ran a 9.2 100 yard dash in high school in 1979. Jackson was running world-class 60 meter times in the mid-80's. I have also mentioned it previously, but Green, at age 50, went out an ran a 4.43! Think about that...how many NFL players, TODAY, can run a legit 4.43? It is not very many. In any case, he was supposedly clocked at a 4.15 in his prime...and some 30 years ago.[/QUOTE]

Green is a freak no doubt. but 4.43 unofficial time and 4.43 at the combine are totally different. those players who runs disappointing 4.5 ish at the combine shows up in proday and shaves at least .05 to .1sec. virtually every top high school NFL prospect runs sub 4.4 hand timed. but 4 years later, after they become bigger and faster somehow runs disappointing 40 dash.

and no way 50 year old green runs legit 4.43. ianything under 4.45 is considered very good. only 5 CB prospect in this year's NFL combine ran 4.45 or below.

i have easier time believing Hayes would run 9.6 if he lived in this generation.

since 1999, there were 14 official 4.3 or below. and 2 fastest college 100m track star jacoby ford and trindon holiday ran 4.28 & 4.29. i believe their record for 100m is 10.01.

[QUOTE=Linspired]Green is a freak no doubt. but 4.43 unofficial time and 4.43 at the combine are totally different. those players who runs disappointing 4.5 ish at the combine shows up in proday and shaves at least .05 to .1sec. virtually every top high school NFL prospect runs sub 4.4 hand timed. but 4 years later, after they become bigger and faster somehow runs disappointing 40 dash.

and no way 50 year old green runs legit 4.43. ianything under 4.45 is considered very good. only 5 CB prospect in this year's NFL combine ran 4.45 or below.

i have easier time believing Hayes would run 9.6 if he lived in this generation.

since 1999, there were 14 official 4.3 or below. and 2 fastest college 100m track star jacoby ford and trindon holiday ran 4.28 & 4.29. i believe their record for 100m is 10.01.[/QUOTE]

Green was something else. I recall a playoff game in which Eric Dickerson broke free around his 20 yard line, and was galloping to an easy TD. Keep in mind that Dickerson was a high school sprinter who ran a 9.4 100 yd dash. Green was near the sideline, and actually had to turn around before he saw Dickerson speeding toward the goal line. I have never seen any player make up so much real estate, so rapidly, as Green did on that play. He caught Dickerson just short of the goal line.

He also won "the NFL Fastest Man" competition several times, even later in his career. I seem to recall him running a 4.35 at nearly age 40.

As for Hayes...another under-rated NFL player, who only recently was finally voted into the HOF. How explosive was he? He AVERAGED 42 yards per play on his 76 career TDs.

Based on all the data available from that time I have a ridiculously hard time buying into the agenda that 60s players were short, unathletic, or lacking in any physical attributes and gifts such as the long wingspans or stellar vertical leaping abilities of players that play today or from any other recent decade...

[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4seN0mugh1k[/url]

Where's the difference in athleticism? Players today look athletically identical - collectively speaking the league doesn't appear to be jumping up for dunks any higher today than the guys in the video, I see absolutely no athleticism differences to speak of. From what I can see on paper via research (of [I]actual[/I] player measurements) plus what can be found watching film is that physically/athletically - players today seem to differ only in one measurable way. The amount of mass they feel the need to put on in the gym and that's based on nothing but a players own personal preference it's not an athletic gift.

[QUOTE=CavaliersFTW]
Thurmond
[IMG]http://i833.photobucket.com/albums/zz259/HolyGrailSports/1970s-NateThurmond.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://i40.tinypic.com/292xmra.jpg[/IMG]
[/QUOTE]

Probably has a veiny c[COLOR="Black"]ock[/COLOR] too.

[QUOTE=CavaliersFTW]Based on all the data available from that time I have a ridiculously hard time buying into the agenda that 60s players were [B]short[/B], unathletic, or lacking in any physical attributes and gifts such as the long wingspans or stellar vertical leaping abilities of players that play today or from any other recent decade...[/QUOTE]

[url]http://www.apbr.org/apbr-faq.html[/url]

What is the yearly NBA average height and weight?

AVERAGE PLAYER HEIGHT AND WEIGHT
Season Height Weight
1949-50 - 6'4" 197 lbs.
1950-51 - 6'4" 198 lbs.
1951-52 - 6'4.5" 198 lbs.
1952-53 - 6'4.5" 200 lbs.
1953-54 - 6'5" 205 lbs.
1954-55 - 6'5" 203 lbs.
1955-56 - 6'5" 206 lbs.
1956-57 - 6'5" 207 lbs.
1957-58 - 6'5" 205 lbs.
1958-59 - 6'5" 208 lbs.
1959-60 - 6'5.5" 206 lbs.
1960-61 - 6'5.5" 207 lbs.
1961-62 - 6'5.5" 208 lbs.
1962-63 - 6'5.5" 208 lbs.
1963-64 - 6'6" 211 lbs.
1964-65 - 6'6" 213 lbs.
1965-66 - 6'6" 211 lbs.
1966-67 - 6'6" 210 lbs.
1967-68 - 6'6" 211 lbs.
1968-69 - 6'6" 214 lbs.
1969-70 - 6'6" 211 lbs.
1970-71 - 6'6" 210 lbs.
1971-72 - 6'6" 211 lbs.
1972-73 - 6'6" 211 lbs.
1973-74 - 6'6" 210 lbs.
1974-75 - 6'6" 208 lbs.
1975-76 - 6'6.5" 209 lbs.
1976-77 - 6'6.5" 208 lbs.
1977-78 - 6'6.5" 207 lbs.
1978-79 - 6'6.5" 206 lbs.
1979-80 - 6'6.5" 208 lbs.
1980-81 - 6'6.5" 209 lbs.
1981-82 - 6'6.5" 210 lbs.
1982-83 - 6'7" 211 lbs.
1983-84 - 6'7" 211 lbs.
1984-85 - 6'7" 212 lbs.
1985-86 - 6'7.5" 214 lbs.
1986-87 - 6'7.5" 215 lbs.
1987-88 - ??? ???
1988-89 - 6'7" 214 lbs.
1989-90 - 6'7" 214 lbs.
1990-91 - 6'7" 215 lbs.
1991-92 - 6'7" 216 lbs.
1992-93 - 6'7" 217 lbs.
1993-94 - ??? ???
1994-95 - ??? ???
1995-96 - 6'7" 223 lbs.
1996-97 - 6'7" 224 lbs.
1997-98 - 6'7" 223 lbs.
1998-99 - 6'7" 224 lbs.
1999-00 - 6'7.5" 225 lbs.
2000-01 - 6'7" 224 lbs.

If these numbers are accurate, height and weight aren't very different across eras. By the 60's, the difference was negligible, i'd say.

And players are getting smaller today.

[url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NBA_league_average_height,_weight,_age_and_playing_experience[/url]

In 2006-07 the average was 6' 6.3" and 221.55 lbs.
In 2007-08 the average was 6' 6.98" and 221.00 lbs.

[QUOTE=Poetry][url]http://www.apbr.org/apbr-faq.html[/url]

What is the yearly NBA average height and weight?

AVERAGE PLAYER HEIGHT AND WEIGHT
Season Height Weight
1949-50 - 6'4" 197 lbs.
1950-51 - 6'4" 198 lbs.
1951-52 - 6'4.5" 198 lbs.
1952-53 - 6'4.5" 200 lbs.
1953-54 - 6'5" 205 lbs.
1954-55 - 6'5" 203 lbs.
1955-56 - 6'5" 206 lbs.
1956-57 - 6'5" 207 lbs.
1957-58 - 6'5" 205 lbs.
1958-59 - 6'5" 208 lbs.
1959-60 - 6'5.5" 206 lbs.
1960-61 - 6'5.5" 207 lbs.
1961-62 - 6'5.5" 208 lbs.
1962-63 - 6'5.5" 208 lbs.
1963-64 - 6'6" 211 lbs.
1964-65 - 6'6" 213 lbs.
1965-66 - 6'6" 211 lbs.
1966-67 - 6'6" 210 lbs.
1967-68 - 6'6" 211 lbs.
1968-69 - 6'6" 214 lbs.
1969-70 - 6'6" 211 lbs.
1970-71 - 6'6" 210 lbs.
1971-72 - 6'6" 211 lbs.
1972-73 - 6'6" 211 lbs.
1973-74 - 6'6" 210 lbs.
1974-75 - 6'6" 208 lbs.
1975-76 - 6'6.5" 209 lbs.
1976-77 - 6'6.5" 208 lbs.
1977-78 - 6'6.5" 207 lbs.
1978-79 - 6'6.5" 206 lbs.
1979-80 - 6'6.5" 208 lbs.
1980-81 - 6'6.5" 209 lbs.
1981-82 - 6'6.5" 210 lbs.
1982-83 - 6'7" 211 lbs.
1983-84 - 6'7" 211 lbs.
1984-85 - 6'7" 212 lbs.
1985-86 - 6'7.5" 214 lbs.
1986-87 - 6'7.5" 215 lbs.
1987-88 - ??? ???
1988-89 - 6'7" 214 lbs.
1989-90 - 6'7" 214 lbs.
1990-91 - 6'7" 215 lbs.
1991-92 - 6'7" 216 lbs.
1992-93 - 6'7" 217 lbs.
1993-94 - ??? ???
1994-95 - ??? ???
1995-96 - 6'7" 223 lbs.
1996-97 - 6'7" 224 lbs.
1997-98 - 6'7" 223 lbs.
1998-99 - 6'7" 224 lbs.
1999-00 - 6'7.5" 225 lbs.
2000-01 - 6'7" 224 lbs.

If these numbers are accurate, height and weight aren't very different across eras. By the 60's, the difference was negligible, i'd say.

And players are getting smaller today.

[url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NBA_league_average_height,_weight,_age_and_playing_experience[/url]

In 2006-07 the average was 6' 6.3" and 221.55 lbs.
In 2007-08 the average was 6' 6.98" and 221.00 lbs.[/QUOTE]

Those numbers aren't accurate, as they are based entirely on listed data. And although actual player measurement data is more difficult to come by, it is the only way to get a real scope on the sizes of players from different decades. Based on the limited number of player measurements from the past vs the (nearly complete) amount of player measurements available in the draft these days, it looks that players of the past aren't any shorter than players today, nor do they have inadequate secondary measurements such as wingspans/hand size etc. The vintage measurements allude that players of the 60s typically did not exaggerate the crap out of their heights (in fact, they sometimes sold themselves short). Starting around the 1980's the differences in listed height vs barefoot height starts to become noticably exaggerated.

[QUOTE=jlauber]Green was something else. I recall a playoff game in which Eric Dickerson broke free around his 20 yard line, and was galloping to an easy TD. Keep in mind that Dickerson was a high school sprinter who ran a 9.4 100 yd dash. Green was near the sideline, and actually had to turn around before he saw Dickerson speeding toward the goal line. I have never seen any player make up so much real estate, so rapidly, as Green did on that play. He caught Dickerson just short of the goal line.

He also won "the NFL Fastest Man" competition several times, even later in his career. I seem to recall him running a 4.35 at nearly age 40.

As for Hayes...another under-rated NFL player, who only recently was finally voted into the HOF. How explosive was he? He AVERAGED 42 yards per play on his 76 career TDs.[/QUOTE]


again, any fast dudes in NFL can run 4.3's hand timed / unofficial. but not so many can do it on a combine. I believe Green was legit 4.25 guy, but running 4.43 at 50 is unofficial / non-combine time which really shouldn't be used as a fact. he really was fast though. i would say deion sanders & green were two fastest football player we've ever seen. and that includes all the track stars who played in the league. it is clear to me track speed and football speed are two very different thing. some trackstars don't run well with pads for sure.

[QUOTE=Linspired]yes, the game speed beteen 80's and today are pretty much the same, but 50's and 60's?[/QUOTE]

Does anyone have any idea if NBA games were recorded on film or video or filmed while live broadcasts were occurring?

I can never tell what frame rate the older games are running at.

today's listed weight is just too inconsistent. Carmelo Anthony is listed at 235lb. he just claimed that he lost 12lbs. is that mean he is now 223lb? hell no. Melo probably played at around 240-245lb last year. wade is listed at 220lb, but his target playing weight 2 years ago was 228lb. i think wade is around 225lb. bron once claimed he is 6ft 9 270lb. yet he is listed at 6ft 8 250lb. most likely bron is 6ft 7 1/2 ish and his playing weight is around 255lb.

typically players again 5-10lb after few seasons from their rookie years. some do lose weight dramatically too. corlis williamson for example.

[QUOTE=Myth]Probably has a veiny c[COLOR="Black"]ock[/COLOR] too.[/QUOTE]

those two pictures are somewhat exaggerated. nate thurmond was cut as hell, but he really wasn't that big.

[QUOTE=Linspired]today's listed weight is just too inconsistent. Carmelo Anthony is listed at 235lb. he just claimed that he lost 12lbs. is that mean he is now 223lb? hell no. Melo probably played at around 240-245lb last year. wade is listed at 220lb, but his target playing weight 2 years ago was 228lb. i think wade is around 225lb. bron once claimed he is 6ft 9 270lb. yet he is listed at 6ft 8 250lb. most likely bron is 6ft 7 1/2 ish and his playing weight is around 255lb.

typically players again 5-10lb after few seasons from their rookie years. some do lose weight dramatically too. corlis williamson for example.[/QUOTE]

Your actually right on the money. And I'd like to also mention that listed weight from ANY era is equally inconsistent for the exact same reasons you just mentioned for this era. Example?

Nate Thurmond penciled in at 225 actually weighed no less than 229lbs when he checked into his rookie season. And according to newspapers his weight gradually goes from this (229lbs) to 235lbs in the late 60's and 240lbs in the 1970's. The weights of players from both past an present is never the same throughout an entire career save for an odd exception or two. Generally articles are published about players past and present that allude to their weight fluctations throughout their career, I always take those into account. I've found that trying to use a listed number for either height or weight has become almost pointless when trying to gauge two players sizes because neither seems to be accurate 9 times out of 10. Draftexpress.com/measurements has helped figure out why certain players look taller than others, and how tall or short players truly are regardless of what list height they were given.

[QUOTE=Poetry][url]http://www.apbr.org/apbr-faq.html[/url]

What is the yearly NBA average height and weight?

AVERAGE PLAYER HEIGHT AND WEIGHT
Season Height Weight
1949-50 - 6'4" 197 lbs.
1950-51 - 6'4" 198 lbs.
1951-52 - 6'4.5" 198 lbs.
1952-53 - 6'4.5" 200 lbs.
1953-54 - 6'5" 205 lbs.
1954-55 - 6'5" 203 lbs.
1955-56 - 6'5" 206 lbs.
1956-57 - 6'5" 207 lbs.
1957-58 - 6'5" 205 lbs.
1958-59 - 6'5" 208 lbs.
1959-60 - 6'5.5" 206 lbs.
1960-61 - 6'5.5" 207 lbs.
1961-62 - 6'5.5" 208 lbs.
1962-63 - 6'5.5" 208 lbs.
1963-64 - 6'6" 211 lbs.
1964-65 - 6'6" 213 lbs.
1965-66 - 6'6" 211 lbs.
1966-67 - 6'6" 210 lbs.
1967-68 - 6'6" 211 lbs.
1968-69 - 6'6" 214 lbs.
1969-70 - 6'6" 211 lbs.
1970-71 - 6'6" 210 lbs.
1971-72 - 6'6" 211 lbs.
1972-73 - 6'6" 211 lbs.
1973-74 - 6'6" 210 lbs.
1974-75 - 6'6" 208 lbs.
1975-76 - 6'6.5" 209 lbs.
1976-77 - 6'6.5" 208 lbs.
1977-78 - 6'6.5" 207 lbs.
1978-79 - 6'6.5" 206 lbs.
1979-80 - 6'6.5" 208 lbs.
1980-81 - 6'6.5" 209 lbs.
1981-82 - 6'6.5" 210 lbs.
1982-83 - 6'7" 211 lbs.
1983-84 - 6'7" 211 lbs.
1984-85 - 6'7" 212 lbs.
1985-86 - 6'7.5" 214 lbs.
1986-87 - 6'7.5" 215 lbs.
1987-88 - ??? ???
1988-89 - 6'7" 214 lbs.
1989-90 - 6'7" 214 lbs.
1990-91 - 6'7" 215 lbs.
1991-92 - 6'7" 216 lbs.
1992-93 - 6'7" 217 lbs.
1993-94 - ??? ???
1994-95 - ??? ???
1995-96 - 6'7" 223 lbs.
1996-97 - 6'7" 224 lbs.
1997-98 - 6'7" 223 lbs.
1998-99 - 6'7" 224 lbs.
1999-00 - 6'7.5" 225 lbs.
2000-01 - 6'7" 224 lbs.

If these numbers are accurate, height and weight aren't very different across eras. By the 60's, the difference was negligible, i'd say.

And players are getting smaller today.

[url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NBA_league_average_height,_weight,_age_and_playing_experience[/url]

In 2006-07 the average was 6' 6.3" and 221.55 lbs.
In 2007-08 the average was 6' 6.98" and 221.00 lbs.[/QUOTE]

3" difference in average height and 25lbs in average weight is considerable actually.

[QUOTE=Poetry]Does anyone have any idea if NBA games were recorded on film or video or filmed while live broadcasts were occurring?

I can never tell what frame rate the older games are running at.[/QUOTE]

It depends on the game, I can only recall two pieces of gamefilm so far from the 60's that are ~30fps like a live broadcast. The rest is pretty much all 25-23.97 like film

[QUOTE=dunksby]3" difference in average height and 25lbs in average weight is considerable actually.[/QUOTE]
he said by the 60s, which is only 1 inch difference on paper, but read the other responses and you'll get more info on why those numbers are probably all wrong anyways.

[QUOTE=dunksby]3" difference in average height and 25lbs in average weight is considerable actually.[/QUOTE]

but you are comparing 50's to today. look at 60's or 70's. the difference isn't all that much from that listing.

i don't buy it. today's player's may not be any taller, but they still carry more weight considerably. i actually think today's players need to drop few pounds. you don't need all that muscle in basketball. you can always gain functional strength without gaining all that muscle. MMA anyone?