How come in the Jordan era they had better TV ratings then now?

- The NBA was in trouble in the late 70s for the same reasons it was in trouble in the mid2000s...league was seen as too black and basically had a coke-snorting image
- Coming of larry Bird (being a white superstar) in early 80s was a turnaround point in ratings for the casual basketball fans, ie mostly white fans of the time. His rivarly with magic johnson on the other side of the country created the initial boost, and then people stayed because 80s basketball was pretty good. They became NBA fans.
- By 1984 though, Jordan had entered the league and and he created a different kind of fan following than lakers vs celtics. Jordan had a spectacular game and a superstar personality that would cross over.....magic had a spectacular game but he wasn't a smooth talker or witty like jordan.....bird was smart but didn't have the spectacular game like jordan....jordan had the entire package on and off the court...and persona wise, outside of him, only Charles Barkley has. With some help from Nike, Jordan by mid-late 80s was the top star of the league, getting the most votes at the all star game etc and air jordan brand was on parallel with rest of nba. Also with jordan came barkley and stockton and mullin and nba had a pretty solid transition into the next decade
-But the league's and basketball's popularity really peaked during 1991-1993 imo, especially during the dream team phase. Both nationally and internationally. Ratings for nba finals peaked in 1998. But interms of basketball on the playgrounds and overall hype, it was probably around '92-93...basketball became the cool sport to play in america....and michael jordan had a lot to do with that. Also to a lesser extent pippen, barkley, ewing, robinson, mullin, regiie miller and those type of stars of that era. Many of those guys are on tnt today interstingly and still popular.

That said, I wanna add that lebron and wade and bosh and durant have similar appeal as the non-jordan stars of that prime era. Dwade, lebron these guys are popular for sure. And their basketball is also not bad either, so its not like you're going to get nba finals with ratings <10 anytime soon with this crew in the finals. Like i said, when a finals with oklahoma city can do well, then the nba is doing pretty good.

[QUOTE=RaininTwos]Good info, the NFL is King in North America. We all know that [B]I was just shocked at how absurd the line of questioning Don Dadda kept presenting.[/B][/QUOTE]

So you agree with RBA but my reasoning, which is the same as RBA's, is 'absurd'? Does not compute :confusedshrug:

People are really reaching for excuses here. Anyone who was around for the Jordan phenomena knows why the interest just isn't there nowadays like it used to be. ESPN, ABC, etc knows the reason as well which is why they're still looking for the 'next Jordan' (looks like they've given up on Kobe and now Lebron gets all the comparisons).

But all that aside... I was just hoping that all the 'internet, cable, more entertainment' caused the NBA's decline would be able to explain why the NFL keeps growing in popularity and viewership while facing the same obstacles. Also would be nice for someone to explain why the NBA experienced massive drop offs in viewership that coincided with Jordan's retirements in '94 and '99.

[QUOTE=supe12sta12z]How do you expect casual fans to connect to the NBA and it's teams when 99% of it's games are shown on cable networks. Games broadcast over the air on local networks are far and few in between.

Most of the playoffs are on cable networks until the Finals. Not exactly easy to connect to these teams.

The NFL broadcast EVERY playoff game on local networks. This makes it easy for people to follow in the postseason.[/QUOTE]


Don't most people have cable?

[QUOTE=DonDadda59]So you agree with RBA but my reasoning, which is the same as RBA's, is 'absurd'? Does not compute :confusedshrug:

People are really reaching for excuses here. Anyone who was around for the Jordan phenomena knows why the interest just isn't there nowadays like it used to be. ESPN, ABC, etc knows the reason as well which is why they're still looking for the 'next Jordan' (looks like they've given up on Kobe and now Lebron gets all the comparisons).

But all that aside... I was just hoping that all the 'internet, cable, more entertainment' caused the NBA's decline would be able to explain why the NFL keeps growing in popularity and viewership while facing the same obstacles. Also would be nice for someone to explain why the NBA experienced massive drop offs in viewership that coincided with Jordan's retirements in '94 and '99.[/QUOTE]

You question was asinine. That's like in a topic about the 2008 recession, people talk about how sales went down and you keep asking "How come the Iphone still sold like crazy?" or in a thread about declining record sales, you ask "How come Adele's '21' is still selling millions of copies?".

That's just being stupid, there is no comparison. You know it, I know it, we all do.

Why are wasting time asking? The NBA and NFL are not the same, so why would you expect challenges to NBA ratings to apply to NFL ratings?

The NFL is obviously the exception.

All RBA did was provide info just to show how much of an exception the NFL is.

Jordan was far more popular with casual fans/non-fans, hence the Bulls would get a large ratings boost.

LeBron is good but he's really not even close in popularity with fringe/non-fans.

Jordan was a global icon ala a Michael Jackson/Princess Diana/etc. for his time.

Things were just different back then.

Yeah, it was because of Jordan. But than again there was better star power, league was just better, better competition..etc.

Today's spacing produces robotic scoring styles, since everyone is taking threes, layups or alley-oops, and the objective is open looks... Otoh, contested shots in traffic were unavoidable in previous eras due to the lesser spacing, so each player was forced to develop their own individually-unique way of making contested shots... The unique scoring styles of Magic, Bird, MJ, Kareem, and all 80's players contrasts with the robotic styles of today's open-shot-makers, aka 3-point and layup spammers - it's mostly open shots due to the hands-off, spaced-out beginner format and the resulting robotic drive-and-kick approach.

So the 90's was far better to watch than today due to the greater individuality and caliber of shot-making and style of play, which was all inspired by the lesser-spaced and more physical format (advanced format)... Contested shots are simply more fun to watch, along with the individually-unique styles and ability required to make them... Furthermore, since players didn't rely on spamming threes via PNR drive-and-kick and 2-man basketball, they were elite at running off screens and playing various 5-man basketball styles.. Historically, 5-man basketball has a tremendous record against 2-man basketball and ball-domination.

Ultimately, only a nascent NBA fan thinks that 3-point jacking demonstrates superior basketball ability than the hoops instinct, skill and individuality required to operate in traffic and with physicality.. The 90's was actually the best decade ever because it used the 3-point line a fair amount (10-25 attempts per game, depending on the year), and therefore had the best-ever mix of at-rim, paint, mid-range, and 3-pointers... The best-ever ratings proved the point - everyone was watching on mainstream TV in more groups of people.

It's because the rules allowed toughness, so basketball was cool back then and people watched in groups on mainstream TV channels that many people got .. Otoh, today's soft, easy-scoring 3-point contests attracted nerds or bored rich people, so the game isn't considered cool and people mostly watch alone on phones or laptops

The answer is Jordan. If you look at the TV ratings year by year the biggest hits they take is right when Jordan retires. The NBA Finals dipped during his first retirement, then popped back up when he came back, then they fell off a cliff after his second retirement and never recovered. Bulls vs Jazz series in 1998 has the highest TV rated/viewership Games 1, 2, 5 and 6 in NBA history as well as the highest averaged rating/viewership for the whole series in NBA history. 35+ million viewers in Game 6. Since COVID happened the Finals viewership hovers around 10-12 million. The Pacers vs Thunder series will be the second or third worse rated Finals in NBA history competing with 2021. 2020 was the worse.

The biggest peak after Jordan left was the Warriors/Cavs series consistently. The Curry vs LeBron narrative drove that era of the Finals. There were a couple Lakers vs Sixer and Lakers vs Piston games sprinkled in that were rated roughly around the same.

[url]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NBA_Finals_television_ratings[/url]

In short the NBA has slowly been dying in terms of ratings and viewership since the Jordan era gradually getting worse and worse minus the slight bump during the Cavs/Warriors days. The United States roughly has 75 million more people today in 2025 than it did in 1998, yet NBA viewership went from a peak of 35-36 millions in 1998 and this season it's currently it's less than 1/3 of that with rougly 9 million viewers. The NBA makes more money today because of lucrative media deals, global expansion and sponsorship and licensing.

LOL...no it's not Jordan

DVR's and Cord Cutting has killed "ratings" as we know it because you can skip commercials and buzz right through the game. The same percentage drop happened with Baseball

It's amazing how often we have this conversation like the media landscape isn't wildly different from even 15 years ago, let alone the fvcking 90's lol.

Attributing this solely to Jordan and not streaming/the internet is wild :lol

[QUOTE=John8204;15015633]LOL...no it's not Jordan

DVR's and Cord Cutting has killed "ratings" as we know it because you can skip commercials and buzz right through the game. The same percentage drop happened with Baseball[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=SouBeachTalents;15015634]It's amazing how often we have this conversation like the media landscape isn't wildly different from even 15 years ago, let alone the fvcking 90's lol.

Attributing this solely to Jordan and not streaming/the internet is wild :lol[/QUOTE]

Jordan retiring isn't the only reason for the NBA lost in viewership, but it is the main culprit and where it all started. Cord cutting and illegal streams were contributing factors that killed it further years later. The two biggest dips in NBA viewership/ratings were the years following Jordan's first and second retirement. The second retirement they lost over 10 million viewers. The biggest drop in any season. In the 80s and 90s until 1998 the viewership for the Finals was consistently between 20-25 million people minus the Houston Rocket Finals. It's not been over 20 million since 1998.

The MLB didn't see any dips until around 2005. MLB didn't quite follow the same trajectory.

Mike brought in viewers who would normally not watch NBA basketball and they left after he retired and never came back. Not to say we haven't seen highly rated series (The Cavs/Warriors series, Sixers/Lakers etc. all did well), but yeah no one really drew an audience like Mike.

[QUOTE=game3524;15015654]Mike brought in viewers who would normally not watch NBA basketball and they left after he retired and never came back. Not to say we haven't seen highly rated series (The Cavs/Warriors series, Sixers/Lakers etc. all did well), but yeah no one really drew an audience like Mike.[/QUOTE]

Sad to think the Cavs/Warriors were highly rated, but only reached half or one-third of what 1998 did.

[QUOTE=Meticode;15015657]Sad to think the Cavs/Warriors were highly rated, but only reached half or one-third of what 1998 did.[/QUOTE]

People ask what the peak year of the NBA is and it is 1998 without any question. Interest has never been as high as it was that year and it is mainly because of Jordan.

[QUOTE=game3524;15015654][b]Mike brought in viewers who would normally not watch NBA basketball and they left after he retired and never came back.[/b] Not to say we haven't seen highly rated series (The Cavs/Warriors series, Sixers/Lakers etc. all did well), but yeah no one really drew an audience like Mike.[/QUOTE]

So the numbers should show viewership spiked back up significantly for the 2ys he played for Washington? Went back down after the 3rd retirement?

[QUOTE=Hey Yo;15015671]So the numbers should show viewership spiked back up significantly for the 2ys he played for Washington? Went back down after the 3rd retirement?[/QUOTE]

No one cared because the Wizards weren't competing in the playoffs for those two years. He was a shadow of his former self. Still a great player, but nothing like 1998 and prior. No one wanted to watch the f*cking Wizards with a old Jordan that could only show glimpses of what he used to be.

[QUOTE=Meticode;15015679]No one cared because the Wizards weren't competing in the playoffs for those two years. He was a shadow of his former self. Still a great player, but nothing like 1998 and prior. No one wanted to watch the f*cking Wizards with a old Jordan that could only show glimpses of what he used to be.[/QUOTE]
Then it was a successful winning team who the non fans tuned into see, not just Jordan. That makes much more sense.

[QUOTE=Hey Yo;15015685]Then it was a successful winning team who the non fans tuned into see, not just Jordan. That makes much more sense.[/QUOTE]

No, it was casual fans wanting to watch peak Jordan win and compete. They didn't want to see old Jordan lose on arguably one of the worse franchises in the NBA still today.

Wow they would say anything but credit Jordan for something so obvious. Even the sneakers were not about Jordan, the designs just "so-happened" to be timeless.

[QUOTE=SouBeachTalents;15015634]It's amazing how often we have this conversation like the media landscape isn't wildly different from even 15 years ago, let alone the fvcking 90's lol.

Attributing this solely to Jordan and not streaming/the internet is wild :lol[/QUOTE]

Hard disagree here.

There were always other options. In the 90's it wasn't much different because you saw the explosion of cable TV. We went from having 6 channels to 100 which meant more competition for the NBA. That period also saw the explosion of video games. None of it mattered though because that was also the biggest growth period for the league.

Streaming doesn't strike me as something that diverts attention away from sports. Sports are their own thing with their own audience. A real sports fan is never going to stream a movie over a big game if given the option. I highly doubt that less people would have watched Michael Jordan in the finals if only they had the option to stream every episode of The Office.

Sports are a shared experience and MJ was must-see TV.

[QUOTE=Derivative;7466802]Why is it that right now the NBA finals TV rating is not even close to the Jordan era? Isn't the NBA getting more popular and well know, so should there be more viewers?[/QUOTE]

Becuase people weren’t sitting on message boards arguing about the game instead of just watching it with family/friends etc

Speaking of MJ's return in 2001-02, the ratings actually did go up from the previous season. Granted, I wouldn't say that was entirely do to MJ returning. Kobe, AI, T-Mac, Vince etc. basically the stars of the 2000s all broke out and became real stars and that helped generate interest in the league.

In the Jordan era, people didn't have to watch players arguing with the refs on every single freaking possession.

[img]https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Ffadeawayworld.net%2F.image%2Ft_share%2FMTk1NTAxMDgwMDkwNTE5MTA5%2Fusatsi_19852809-1.jpg&f=1&nofb=1&ipt=5f674ca371bc573739681d4f7113c43de52bab642b4cb19f0114768eaa17f0f7[/img]

[img]https://c8.alamy.com/comp/2BFAW16/michael-jordan-complains-to-the-refereree-while-competing-against-the-utah-jazz-during-the-1997-nba-finals-2BFAW16.jpg[/img]
Yeah Mj would never...

[QUOTE=sdot_thadon;15015743][img]https://c8.alamy.com/comp/2BFAW16/michael-jordan-complains-to-the-refereree-while-competing-against-the-utah-jazz-during-the-1997-nba-finals-2BFAW16.jpg[/img]
Yeah Mj would never...[/QUOTE]

Lol wow, you found an instance of it - compared to doing it every single play. Nice try. :lol


[img]https://s.yimg.com/ny/api/res/1.2/d5Py9NQMl.tDOhoFD18_oA--/YXBwaWQ9aGlnaGxhbmRlcjt3PTI0MDA7aD0xNjIy/https://s.yimg.com/os/creatr-uploaded-images/2025-04/4a9f9c40-1dac-11f0-b57b-63dc887311d1[/img]
[B][SIZE=5]
^Beta[/SIZE][/B]

[IMG]https://i.pinimg.com/736x/be/2b/3f/be2b3f12a0175b4894ae8cef6806ee1d.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]https://i.pinimg.com/736x/be/2b/3f/be2b3f12a0175b4894ae8cef6806ee1d.jpg[/IMG]

[B][SIZE=5]^Alpha.[/SIZE][/B]




[img]https://s.yimg.com/ny/api/res/1.2/d5Py9NQMl.tDOhoFD18_oA--/YXBwaWQ9aGlnaGxhbmRlcjt3PTI0MDA7aD0xNjIy/https://s.yimg.com/os/creatr-uploaded-images/2025-04/4a9f9c40-1dac-11f0-b57b-63dc887311d1[/img]
[B][SIZE=4]
^Beta. :lol[/SIZE][/B]

[IMG]https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Ej7t2z1UcAA_Em0.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Ej7t2z1UcAA_Em0.jpg[/IMG]
[B][SIZE=5]
^Alpha[/SIZE][/B]


[img]https://s.yimg.com/ny/api/res/1.2/d5Py9NQMl.tDOhoFD18_oA--/YXBwaWQ9aGlnaGxhbmRlcjt3PTI0MDA7aD0xNjIy/https://s.yimg.com/os/creatr-uploaded-images/2025-04/4a9f9c40-1dac-11f0-b57b-63dc887311d1[/img]
[B][SIZE=5]
^Beta.[/SIZE][/B]

[QUOTE=SouBeachTalents;15015756][IMG]https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Ej7t2z1UcAA_Em0.jpg[/IMG][/QUOTE]

Ref laughing at him on the bottom left. :oldlol:

[img]https://www.boundingintosports.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/02/Screen-Shot-2023-02-01-at-9.53.33-AM-1340x700.png[/img]

[B][SIZE=5]^Beta.[/SIZE][/B]

[QUOTE=Full Court;15015749]Lol wow, you found an instance of it - compared to doing it every single play. Nice try. :lol


[img]https://s.yimg.com/ny/api/res/1.2/d5Py9NQMl.tDOhoFD18_oA--/YXBwaWQ9aGlnaGxhbmRlcjt3PTI0MDA7aD0xNjIy/https://s.yimg.com/os/creatr-uploaded-images/2025-04/4a9f9c40-1dac-11f0-b57b-63dc887311d1[/img]
[B][SIZE=5]
^Beta[/SIZE][/B][/QUOTE]

You probably weren't even born yet when that Pic was snapped bud. What's amazing about this exchange is the fact that Mj was far and away thought to have preferential treatment by the officials and STILL complained to them that much. Meanwhile they've reffed Lebron more like Shaq and honestly has probably been shorted 1000+ fta as the most devastating perimeter player in the paint ever.

[QUOTE=sdot_thadon;15015842]You probably weren't even born yet when that Pic was snapped bud. What's amazing about this exchange is the fact that Mj was far and away thought to have preferential treatment by the officials and STILL complained to them that much. Meanwhile they've reffed Lebron more like Shaq and honestly has probably been shorted 1000+ fta as the most devastating perimeter player in the paint ever.[/QUOTE]

You sound like a beta.

I'm gonna go out on a limb here and guess that you're a big Lebron fan?


:roll:

[QUOTE=Indian guy;7466847]Mainly technology(internet/iphone) - there are a thousand more ways to watch/follow sports now. A million more other things to do as well.

The best example is the superior TV ratings from 99-04, yet I don't think anyone's going to argue the NBA is less popular today then it was then.[/QUOTE]

Summed it up.


Fewer options back then.

My humble take:

NBA's popularity really started with Magic vs Bird rivalry - glued to the TV for the few broadcast games - my mom was a Celtics fan and I a Laker fan. But MJ took its popularity to another level - it's hard to describe - like a WORLDWIDE phenomenon - like watching the moon landing or Thrilla in Manilla in little old Jamaica - the excitement/talk/buzz. I was not a MJ fan - did not like the cockiness/arrogance but he was FEARED when he stepped on court.

Back then, players battled dearly. Not like today with the load management, regular season almost counting for nothing, friend/friend with everyone. It seemed like they hated to lose and put pride/everything into winning. And of course, there was not the movement that there is today - teams were pretty stable (at least the stars).

[QUOTE=Full Court;15015923]You sound like a beta.

I'm gonna go out on a limb here and guess that you're a big Lebron fan?


:roll:[/QUOTE]

One thing I know for certain in my travels is the guys who care to speak on Alpha/beta dynamics are never the alpha in any situation. And actually, im a fan of both Mj and Lebron that knows Lebron isn't given a fair shake by a certain segment of fan. But none of that has anything ro do with me knowing more about Mj than you, keep up.

[QUOTE=sdot_thadon;15015842]You probably weren't even born yet when that Pic was snapped bud. What's amazing about this exchange is the fact that Mj was far and away thought to have preferential treatment by the officials and STILL complained to them that much. Meanwhile they've reffed Lebron more like Shaq and honestly has probably been shorted 1000+ fta as the most devastating perimeter player in the paint ever.[/QUOTE]

Lebron has a higher Free Throw Rate for his career, and that's with him playing well past his prime years and barely getting to the line now as he doesn't attack the paint nearly as much.

If we just look at their prime years (I'll do age 24-29 seasons for this purpose, from when Jordan hit his peak to his 1st retirement), Lebron had a 44.9% Free Throw Rate vs. Jordan's 36.6%.

Free Throw Rate = Free Throws attempted per FG attempt.

And we can also look at the Personal Fouls number. Jordan averaged 2.6 fouls to Lebron's 1.8 for his career in the RS and 3 fouls to Lebron's 2.3 per game in the Playoffs.

[QUOTE=sdot_thadon;15015955][B]One thing I know for certain in my travels is the guys who care to speak on Alpha/beta dynamics are never the alpha in any situation.[/B] And actually, im a fan of both Mj and Lebron that knows Lebron isn't given a fair shake by a certain segment of fan. But none of that has anything ro do with me knowing more about Mj than you, keep up.[/QUOTE]

Yep. Spoken like a true beta.

They're higher than they've ever been. By a huge margin. You can play around with terrestrial/cable/streaming numbers all you want but the bottom line revenue doesn't lie.

That does NOT necessarily mean the product is better today. Maybe it is better or maybe it's better at catering to the lowest common denominator or maybe it's more accessible. Personally, I think the casual sports fan is a dieing breed. It's going the way of late night talk shows and variey programs. People don't just sit around and watch whatever's on or channel surf. There's access to so much content now that people generally will go to "their thing" when they can instead of tolerate something passable. Just my opinion of how entertainment media is consumed now vs the 90s.