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[QUOTE=Punpun]>Comparin some guy 3rd year to a rookie year when the discussion is about Rookie vs Rookie.
Way to make a relevant point.
:yaohappy:[/QUOTE]
Just showing that the rigorous schedule obviously impacted his game... Or he is just regressing as a player... Or a combination of the two.
Again, not a coincidence that his minutes were way down this year... From 37 to 34.
[QUOTE=NuggetsFan]I don't recall saying Evans was better. Even in their rookie season. I was just generally curious about the minute discussion. Early on I talked about Evans and OJ's rookie years. I believe I went on to say Irving was far more in control and an advanced shooter.[/QUOTE]
I wasn't insinuating that you were saying Evans was better... Just showing how I believe Evans numbers (most notably his minutes) were down during this past season. I do not believe it is a coincidence (condensed season/numbers down across the board).
[QUOTE=RedBlackAttack]Just showing that the rigorous schedule obviously impacted his game... Or he is just regressing as a player... Or a combination of the two.
Again, not a coincidence that his minutes were way down this year... From 37 to 34.[/QUOTE]
So what ? We are comparing what they accomplished on their rookie season. Not what they could have accomplished. Please, try to be a lil bit logical.
[QUOTE=RedBlackAttack]I wasn't insinuating that you were saying Evans was better... Just showing how I believe Evans numbers (most notably his minutes) were down during this past season. I do not believe it is a coincidence (condensed season/numbers down across the board).[/QUOTE]
Makes sense.
[QUOTE=Punpun] Please, try to be a lil bit logical.[/QUOTE]
Logic would tell you that, if minutes were down across the league, it is a legitimate discussion point when comparing and contrasting these two seasons.
Also, logic wouldn't refuse to acknowledge advanced statistics.
[QUOTE=RedBlackAttack]Logic would tell you that, if minutes were down across the league, it is a legitimate discussion point when comparing and contrasting these two seasons.
Also, logic wouldn't refuse to acknowledge advanced statistics.[/QUOTE]
Logic tells you that your concern about minutes are irrelevant because crying about it won't change Kyrie played less minutes than Tyreke. And that's it. Facts are facts. Stop making excuses about why Tyreke' stats are better.
And, with that, I'm done talking about Tyreke Evans in this thread.
To the OP's point...
While PB was the most verbose of the "Kyrie isn't very good" movement, he certainly wasn't the only one.
[URL="http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=235343"]Kyrie Irving needs a few months for foot to heal[/URL]
[QUOTE=iDunk]I think the Cavs made a huge mistake.
They should've drafted Derrick Williams first and then with the 4th if they still want a PG then go ahead and draft Kemba Walker. I think Walker will have a better career than Irving.
A Walker/Williams duo for the future actually sounds pretty good.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=SunsCaptain]Derrick Williams was the way to go. But I am happy by the way it worked out, Because I am going to really enjoy watching the T-wolves next season. I wouldnt have been as excited for the Cavs.
T-wolves 2012!
:hammertime:[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Clippersfan86]The savior of the Cavs and next CP3 :roll: :oldlol:[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=senelcoolidge]I don't think Irving will be a perennial All Star. He could be a solid PG at best or just a guy that will fizzle out. One thing he has over recent point guards like Wall and Rose is that he's coming into the league already a good shooter. He's just not as quick and athletic as those two. He will not put up stellar numbers. He will be good, but not great. I think other guys from this draft will have much better careers than Irving.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=OmniStrife]Derrick Williams, Kanter > Irving[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Hondo]Derrick Williams and Kemba Walker/ Brandon Knight were the correct picks to make.
I still have trouble remembering Tristan Thompson's name. SOunds like a WNBA player[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Clippersfan86]Savior comment is me being a smartass. On this forum a couple Cavs fans compared his upside to CP3 :facepalm . I guess a scouting report also said best case scenario= CP3 which is a load of crap. A few people implied he's an all star talent. I think like Senal said this guy is a solid starter, never a star. 15 and 7 in a career best year. Mo Williams caliber where he's a great 3rd option but NOT a franchise changing or carrying worthy player.
I just got annoyed with the praise this guy was getting after 11 games in college and despite the fact that many league scouts said the draft had no legit star players. It's not like he earned it. He has a lot to prove. Maybe I'll be wrong but right now I have any avy bet with you on Kyrie vs Bledsoe right? Or was it the Clippers in the playoffs bet you took?[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Clippersfan86]Look at the list of PG's who averaged 20 ppg and tell me how many are in the hall of fame or will be. I don't know many 20 ppg PG's who aren't elite or at least all star level. It's not that I think this guy sucks.. I just think he will tap out at a Mo Williams level. Great shooter and scorer good for maybe 17 ppg tops and 7 apg. His defense and playmaking aren't anything to write home about. Another thing to remember is as a PG he's going to have a lot more trouble adapting to the NBA game than Lebron did in Cleveland as a 6'8 240 pound SF who had a superior build to everyone.
The problem on top of that is...... Cleveland doesn't have any other weapons you need to worry about besides Baron at times (nobody doubles him anymore though) and Jamison once in a while. You guys traded your best all around player in Hickson. Meaning that IF somehow Irving is a great scorer and does get close to 20 ppg in the next couple years... you guys won't have enough talent around him to take away that pressure. He's going to be the next one man team if that happens. Think Vince Carter's Raptors or T Mac's Magic but not nearly as good of a team.
I may seem like I'm rooting against this kid but I'm not. I'm just right there with Michael Jordan when he says nowadays kids get all this praise before they play a single NBA game. This guy is a high risk, high reward player. Just don't forget HIGH RISK as well. He's not a player who dominated the college ranks like the greats did. Hell Blake Griffin was 2nd all time in double doubles for NCAA and had superstar written all over him according to scouts, drawing Malone comparisons yet most people were skeptical over his game transitioning to the NBA level and all that. After his injury people forgot about him pretty much.
Kyrie has been injury prone his college career and now he's still recovering and injured. Yet people have all this hype and faith about him and he's not even an A prospect. He's a B at best.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=The Ownage]This, plus Kemba Walker. Irving got overhyped.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Clippersfan86]I respect your realism. As long as you aren't one of those who think he's a franchise caliber player.[/QUOTE]
^^^All that from just one thread about Kyrie's foot. The thread wasn't even about predicting whether or not he will be a franchise player. I would say that -- at least on ISH -- the idea that Kyrie would be as good as he is was laughed at almost across the board.
So, PB shouldn't be the only one called out here.
Take a look at this thread for more...
[URL="http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=227289"]Kyrie Irving is the next big bust[/URL]
[QUOTE=Skywalker]you heard it here first[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=G-train]You are not alone in thinking that.
But it also depends on expectations of him.... I expect him to carve out a DJ Augustin career, which is a bust given most expectations.
I'd take Brandon Knight over him. And I'd even take Kemba over him - thats saying something.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=BarberSchool]Yeah, I wouldn't draft Irving with a top 5 pick either.
I'd pick Derrick Williams or Enes Kanter.[/QUOTE]
etc.
Before season : why is Irving so overrated?
After : Ahh I can see whyyy
Kid's got amazing stroke and have can finish above the rim well. If he improves his passing, he'll be on Cp3's level. Scoring wise tho, I think he's close.
[QUOTE=KG215][url]http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=216885[/url]
[B]April 06, 2011[/B]
[B]Now, a little over one year later, Cleveland is going to have the best backcourt in the NBA with a rookie starting at SG and Irving.[/B]
:roll: :roll: :roll:[/QUOTE]
:facepalm
[QUOTE=RedBlackAttack]While PB was the most verbose of the "Kyrie isn't very good" movement, he certainly wasn't the only one. [/QUOTE]
The massive problem is that he wants to take credit like some kind of Nostradamus. Every one of us has been wrong about predictions here and there. But how many of us would go from making a thread like he made bashing Irving to some idiotic claim that he predicted greatness but then we deleted his prediction? PB is a bad joke who deserves all the shit he gets. Really he should just be banned, but whatever.
I'll be the first to say I wasn't keen on the Irving pick. I was totally wrong. I didn't say he was a bust, but I think I remember myself saying I felt Derrick Williams was a safer pick.
I was wrong.
[QUOTE=RedBlackAttack]And, with that, I'm done talking about Tyreke Evans in this thread.
To the OP's point...
While PB was the most verbose of the "Kyrie isn't very good" movement, he certainly wasn't the only one.
[URL="http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=235343"]Kyrie Irving needs a few months for foot to heal[/URL]
^^^All that from just one thread about Kyrie's foot. The thread wasn't even about predicting whether or not he will be a franchise player. I would say that -- at least on ISH -- the idea that Kyrie would be as good as he is was laughed at almost across the board.
So, PB shouldn't be the only one called out here.
Take a look at this thread for more...
[URL="http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=227289"]Kyrie Irving is the next big bust[/URL]
etc.[/QUOTE]
And this...
[QUOTE=Real Men Wear Green]The massive problem is that he wants to take credit like some kind of Nostradamus. Every one of us has been wrong about predictions here and there. But how many of us would go from making a thread like he made bashing Irving to some idiotic claim that he predicted greatness but then we deleted his prediction? PB is a bad joke who deserves all the shit he gets. Really he should just be banned, but whatever.[/QUOTE]
It wasn't about PB being wrong, because that's a common occurrence. It was started simply for a few sh*ts and giggles because he's a self proclaimed prophet, who's wrong more of than right, and is now one year later claiming Cleveland will have the best backcourt in the NBA.
And I'm well aware that ISH was, at best, split on Irving last year pre-draft. I was one of the few (can't find the exact threads) that was saying he wouldn't be a bust or be better than people thought. I also said I liked Derrick Williams just as much (if not more) than Irving, but I thought Irving going number one was the right pick for the Cavs. I didn't think Irving would be this good this fast, but I liked his potential and thought he had a higher ceiling than a lot of other posters.
[QUOTE=Punpun]So what ? We are comparing what they accomplished on their rookie season. Not what they could have accomplished. Please, try to be a lil bit logical.[/QUOTE]
so evans had better stats and thats all you have.
he averaged less than two points more, basically that same assists, and less than 2 rebounds.
the fact remains, kyrie is more efficient, better shooter, better at getting the rim and converting, better ball handler, better passer, way more clutch.
kyrie's nickname is mr. fourth quarter.... earned that nickname his rookie year.
if you asked a GM after you saw both rookie seasons (and you only saw the rookie season, they would see tyreke's 2nd of 3rd) im pretty sure it would be unanimous that every GM would take kyrie Irving.
[QUOTE=9erempiree]Nobody even thinks what you are thinking during the season but since that commercial came out....people are all over him.
Like I said, he will be a starting PG in this league and that's it. A couple of all stars and that's it.[/QUOTE]
Oh right it's all because of that commercial :facepalm :roll:
Kyrie Irving is the real deal. IMO, barring injury, he will be a top 5 PG in a few years.
I can't hate of the kid. He's got a lot of game and is cold blooded in the clutch.
I'm starting to think 9erempire and PunPun are the same person. They both post like a 12 year old.
He's a future superstar. He's not overrated at all.
In three years time he will be the best PG in the entire NBA imo. If he can up his scoring, maintain his efficiency, and get some better talent around him I can't see 24/11 as out of the realm of reality. He had a great rookie year. I won't claim it was all time great like others will, but kid can play the game, and he will only get better.
I called his stat line exactly yet you fool's want to keep bringing that one thread up that was made in Dec of '10. At that time no one had the chance to do any advance scouting on Irving. When I was given the opportunity to dig deeper and realize the guy was.6'3 with an above average standing reach for his position, boom, I was on top of the situation and correctly predicted his rookie production across the board. I didn't miss on a single element of his final averages or efficiency results.
You all can keep bringing up one side of the story. It's was ya'll do. The MODS openly encourage the slandering of my name. It's nothing I'm not used to. I was right about Irving to a degree that is unprecedented in player/scouting analysis. No one here will admit that and I'm fine with that.
:lebronamazed: :lebronamazed: :lebronamazed: :lebronamazed: :lebronamazed: :lebronamazed: :lebronamazed: :lebronamazed: :lebronamazed:
[QUOTE=lilgodfather1]In three years time he will be the best PG in the entire NBA imo. If he can up his scoring, maintain his efficiency, and get some better talent around him I can't see[B][B] 24/11[/B][/B] as out of the realm of reality. He had a great rookie year. I won't claim it was all time great like others will, but kid can play the game, and he will only get better.[/QUOTE]
take it easy bro
two players in history have put up those numbers, oscar and tiny
24 is doable, but there just isnt enough possessions to get 24 and 11
[QUOTE=PleezeBelieve]I called his stat line exactly yet you fool's want to keep bringing that one thread up that was made in Dec of '10. At that time no one had the chance to do any advance scouting on Irving. When I was given the opportunity to dig deeper and realize the guy was.6'3 with an above average standing reach for his position, boom, I was on top of the situation and correctly predicted his rookie production across the board. I didn't miss on a single element of his final averages or efficiency results.
You all can keep bringing up one side of the story. It's was ya'll do. The MODS openly encourage the slandering of my name. It's nothing I'm not used to. I was right about Irving to a degree that is unprecedented in player/scouting analysis. No one here will admit that and I'm fine with that.[/QUOTE]
I don't think it has anything to do with your scouting analysis and more to do with the fact that you generally just say whatever random thing you can to generate attention. Making whenever you to predict something correctly mean 10x less because everybody knows you were just spouting bullshit from the get go.
Your not even a unique troll. I would guess when people were hying Irving up as the number 1 pick you decided to trash him. When the season started and people were calling this a weak draft year you went on to tell everybody how amazing Irving was just after you tore him apart.
You say things to stir the pot and stand out. It's funny when skip bayless does it because he's getting paid for it. Your doing it because your either 14 years old or weren't hugged enough as a child :oldlol:
[QUOTE=LBJMVP]so evans had better stats [/QUOTE]
There. You admitted it.
[QUOTE=NuggetsFan]You say things to stir the pot and stand out. It's funny when skip bayless does it because he's getting paid for it. Your doing it because your either 14 years old or weren't hugged enough as a child :oldlol:[/QUOTE]
this
but less :oldlol: , and more :(
Irving is great, but the 'best backcourt in the NBA' schtick is a little much. A guy who never started a game in two years and averaged 12ppg is going to constitute half the best backcourt in the league? Give him a couple years at least.
[QUOTE=hawksdogsbraves]Irving is great, but the 'best backcourt in the NBA' schtick is a little much. A guy who never started a game in two years and averaged 12ppg is going to constitute half the best backcourt in the league? Give him a couple years at least.[/QUOTE]
I agree that we should give it a few years... or at least see how Dion looks on the next level, but the whole "starter" thing is getting tired. First, he finished games which is always more important than who is on the floor for tip. Second, he played more minutes than the guy who started at the 2. Third, the guy who most people point to as the best player on the board-- Thomas Robinson -- didn't start until his junior year and never played close to the minutes that Waiters did during his freshman and sophomore seasons.
It is a non issue.
[QUOTE=KG215]
Now, a little over one year later, Cleveland is going to have the best backcourt in the NBA with a rookie starting at SG and Irving.
[/QUOTE]
With Waiters? No..
:facepalm
Wall + Beal > Irving + Waiters
How did this thread become Kyrie vs. Tyreke? This should be 8 pages of calling PleezeBelieve a ****head not statistical comparison. Anyone who wants info on Dion come to me and obviously I'm a Kyrie stan so I'll try to be objective. Tyreke may have had a more impressive season on paper, but Kyrie led the league in 4th quarter scoring as a rookie (I believe, if not he's up there). That's crazy. Also Irving>Wall and who knows with Dion and Beal so all you should say is it's equal cause Beal was rated higher.
ill vouch for kyrie, ive watched d rose since highschool and recognized his talent. irving will be great for the cavs.
PB = Prophet BBall.
yes PB is a bad joke who deserves all the shit he gets.
Unfortunately (for us, not Dion) he's been right about Waiters so far, so we'll have to listen to him brag about that one for who knows how long.
[QUOTE=9erempiree]20 5 5 is better than 18 3 5
Kings 29 -57 winning at 35%
Cavs 21-45 winning at 31 %
All things point to Tyreke having the better year. So please stop overrating Kyrie because he did a commercial.[/QUOTE]
This guy is sitting at home laughing his --s off. He got many of you. You took the bait and got pissed. He struck a cord with the commercial reference when everyone who knows bball knows the Uncle Drew commercial - while fun - really went nowhere.
Outside of the game vs. the Bulls, he has abused people this year. I was actually sad watching Chris Paul trying to guard him in LA. He penetrates at will, finishes as well as any point guard, is creative, has amazing handles, and is consistent on his jump shot.
empire - good humor. Now...come clean on Kyrie vs. Tyreke. You have people on the edge of the bridge. Prove your sanity...
2 years older or younger, who is way better then him??? (u shud name at least 10 to claim he is overrated)
think he is one of the best of "his generation"...
time will tell, but i expect great things from him, one of the most talented shooters ive ever seen..
PleezeLeave
:cheers: Welcome back, Kyrie Irving! :cheers:
28pts 6rebs 11asts vs lakers. Plus the victory :pimp:
how great is our god? :bowdown:
Our God dropped 28/11 on 52% shooting first game back from an injury.
[QUOTE=YouAintGrizz]With Waiters? No..
:facepalm
Wall + Beal > Irving + Waiters[/QUOTE]
:wtf: :roll:
Lol