Michael Jordan memo to Kobe Bryant:

[QUOTE=RaininTwos]Andgar, is this a blow out to you?[/QUOTE]

Naw... not a blow out.

If they played a 7 game series I can see the Dream Team winning 5 of them, at least 2 by a very decisive margin.

Bottom line, it comes down to execution and who can get the easiest buckets.

Players from both sides will have a hard time guarding each other no doubt, but when it comes down to executing in the final moments, the Dream Team will come through far more consistently.

The New Team will have issues with TRUE 'zone' defense, specially zone being played by great individual defenders and high IQ ones. Sure, Stockton and Magic can't guard their counterparts, but with zone it doesn't matter. They're smart enough to know how to play them, and unlike in today's NBA which prohibits the players from clogging the lane, you'll have TRUE big men guarding the lane ready to switch.

The New Team will have to hit a bunch of tough shots, while the Dream Team will get buckets that aren't spectacular, appear to be boring and easy, but very effective.

Do people remember how the Spurs were dismantling teams with their pick and roll? well.. imagine that but with players in their prime, and with nothing but hall of famers finishing, all of which can pass, shoot, move without the ball and have extraordinary high IQs. Let's put it this way... if ANY of the Dream Teamers were to play in this era, each one of them would be the smartest player in the league (canceling each other out of course), and almost all of them would be MVP candidates with ease.

[QUOTE=G.O.A.T]Yep, feel the same way. [B]Wizards Jordan was a very good player[/B], but it was strange to see an aging MJ get beat on athleticism. I think Kobe would have the same issues against a team of guys between 25-29 who were the premier athletes and talents of their era.[/QUOTE]

How exactly?
The guy had [B]the least efficient[/B] season in league history did he not? (of anyone scoring 20+ points per game)

[quote=Punpun]OH MY GOD, ANOTHER COMPETITOR JUST CLAIMED THAT THE OTHER TEAM CANT EVEN TOUCH THEM. SO TOTALLY UNHEARD OF.

:yaohappy:[/quote]

THAT ONE.

:biggums:

The 2012 USA Team lacks size, but i believe the 2008 Redeem Team would have had a chance against the original Dream Team. Someone should ask MJ about that.

And Kobe probably didn't even really mean it when he said the 2012 team would beat the 92 Dream Team. He just wanted to support his current teammates and show confidence in his team...nothing wrong with that.

[QUOTE=Indian guy]Yeah, I don't think you know what you're talking about. Guarding PGs, especially one with CP3's quickness and handle, wasn't a strength of Pippen's. Quite the opposite, in fact. Team USA would be much better off putting Pippen on Kobe and MJ on CP3.[/QUOTE]

Yea cause you always know what you're talking about :oldlol: . Maybe I exagerrated. I would agree that that would be a better alternative. I was also taking into account that on the other end CP3 would be a liability since he wouldn't be able to guard anyone from that lineup. In fact, the more I think about it, Westbrook would probably be better in that matchup,but that brings a whole new set of problems and he wouldn't really be able to guard anyone either.

Jordan is right on this one, Kobe just talking trash. Everyone with any knowledge of basketball knows this match-up would be unfair.

[QUOTE=RaininTwos]In terms of skill/peak, I think that the MJ/Kobe gap is like splitting hairs. I always wonder if people here actually play basketball because people tend to think that players of Jordan's caliber are unbeatable.
[/quote]

First off, skill and peak are two entirely different things. Just because one is skilled doesn't mean they have impact. And Kobe is most certainly NOT as skilled as Jordan. Maybe in terms of strictly 1-on-1 ability [B]with[/B] the ball he's close and arguably superior, but in terms of total basketball skill? No way. Jordan's off the ball game alone destroys Kobe's, and he was a far smarter player in general about using defender's momentum, his teammates' bodies etc. to get good looks. Better rebounder by a good margin, better passer/playmaker, better post player, better defender (vastly better team/help defender, actually). It adds up to at least a 10% difference in impact prime vs. prime and especially peak vs peak. No version of Kobe is seeing '89-'92 Jordan, and especially '90 or '91 Jordan.

[quote] Drazen didn't fear Jordan at all, dude dropped 40 on him the next year as a Net if I am not mistaken.[/QUOTE]

Petro never scored more than 26 on the Bulls, and that was on 40% shooting. He did have a couple of good games in the low-mid 20's against them, though. Regardless, players like Petrovic are in many ways harder to stop than players like Kobe, because he plays without the ball, is a better shooter, and was a smarter player. Kobe's strengths as an offensive player, by contrast, play right into Jordan's strengths as a defender. He'd get sucked in to a 1-on-1 battle and Jordan would pretty handily get the better of that matchup.

[QUOTE=Harison]Jordan is right on this one, Kobe just talking trash. Everyone with any knowledge of basketball knows this match-up would be unfair.[/QUOTE]

Kobe probably has more basketball knowledge then 99.9% of the people in this thread.

[QUOTE=rhythmic

[QUOTE=OldSchoolBBall]First off, skill and peak are two entirely different things. Just because one is skilled doesn't mean they have impact. And Kobe is most certainly NOT as skilled as Jordan. Maybe in terms of strictly 1-on-1 ability [B]with[/B] the ball he's close and arguably superior, but in terms of total basketball skill? No way. Jordan's off the ball game alone destroys Kobe's, and he was a far smarter player in general about using defender's momentum, his teammates' bodies etc. to get good looks. Better rebounder by a good margin, better passer/playmaker, better post player, better defender (vastly better team/help defender, actually). It adds up to at least a 10% difference in impact prime vs. prime and especially peak vs peak. No version of Kobe is seeing '89-'92 Jordan, and especially '90 or '91 Jordan.



Petro never scored more than 26 on the Bulls, and that was on 40% shooting. He did have a couple of good games in the low-mid 20's against them, though. Regardless, players like Petrovic are in many ways harder to stop than players like Kobe, because he plays without the ball, is a better shooter, and was a smarter player. Kobe's strengths as an offensive player, by contrast, play right into Jordan's strengths as a defender. He'd get sucked in to a 1-on-1 battle and Jordan would pretty handily get the better of that matchup.[/QUOTE]

Please ban this clown, all he ever talks about is Jordan or dissing Kobe.
That's all, don't need his one-dimensional homerism in here.

At least that jlauber guy just mostly defends Wilt, this guy genuinely dislikes Kobe and consistently has bias rants about him.

[QUOTE=rhythmic

[QUOTE=rhythmic †hesis]How exactly?
The guy had [B]the least efficient[/B] season in league history did he not? (of anyone scoring 20+ points per game)[/QUOTE]

Not really. At age 38-39 he still averaged more RPG and APG, and less TOP than Kobe Bryant for his career.

Not even Kobe's worst season, career average. That's pretty damn efficient across the stat sheet. Sure his FG% wasn't what it used to be (at almost 40 years old), but being an efficient playing on the floor is about more than just shooting percentage.

[QUOTE=OldSchoolBBall]First off, skill and peak are two entirely different things. Just because one is skilled doesn't mean they have impact. And Kobe is most certainly NOT as skilled as Jordan. Maybe in terms of strictly 1-on-1 ability [B]with[/B] the ball he's close and arguably superior, but in terms of total basketball skill? No way. Jordan's off the ball game alone destroys Kobe's, and he was a far smarter player in general about using defender's momentum, his teammates' bodies etc. to get good looks. Better rebounder by a good margin, better passer/playmaker, better post player, better defender (vastly better team/help defender, actually). It adds up to at least a 10% difference in impact prime vs. prime and especially peak vs peak. No version of Kobe is seeing '89-'92 Jordan, and especially '90 or '91 Jordan.



Petro never scored more than 26 on the Bulls, and that was on 40% shooting. He did have a couple of good games in the low-mid 20's against them, though. Regardless, players like Petrovic are in many ways harder to stop than players like Kobe, because he plays without the ball, is a better shooter, and was a smarter player. Kobe's strengths as an offensive player, by contrast, play right into Jordan's strengths as a defender. He'd get sucked in to a 1-on-1 battle and Jordan would pretty handily get the better of that matchup.[/QUOTE]
I was wrong about the Drazen bit, but god damn, I guess Jordan is Jesus. Here we go with the massive overrating of the guy again.

[QUOTE=rhythmic

[QUOTE=rhythmic

Damn, after reading the whole thing Jordan went IN on Kobe lmao. And i'm a Kobe stan. But why are people making it seem like he said this out of no where? Why is no one (ESPN) or anything mentioning that he was ASKED?


[url]http://video-embed.nola.com/services/player/bcpid651482428001?bctid=1727434664001&bckey=AQ~~,AAAAPmbRMTE~,BWCCSzT6s9n2dkm1Oa2dELBPh6LJOKDw[/url]

[QUOTE=RaininTwos]Someone forgot to take into account various things like: his teammates, the Eastern conference slugfest era he was in, his age and lack of athleticism

Jordan scoring 20+ was amazing to watch. I'm not a stan but seeing what he had to go through to get those points I have respect for those seasons.[/QUOTE]

Why did you quote me?
Who the hell said it wasn't a great accomplishment? The other poster simply said "Jordan was very good on the Wizards", I disagree considering the guy had the least efficient shooting season in history at 40.

And yes I agree, at 40 years of age: Jordan was still very impressive.

[QUOTE=OldSchoolBBall]First off, skill and peak are two entirely different things. Just because one is skilled doesn't mean they have impact. And Kobe is most certainly NOT as skilled as Jordan. Maybe in terms of strictly 1-on-1 ability [B]with[/B] the ball he's close and arguably superior, but in terms of total basketball skill? No way. Jordan's off the ball game alone destroys Kobe's, and he was a far smarter player in general about using defender's momentum, his teammates' bodies etc. to get good looks. Better rebounder by a good margin, better passer/playmaker, better post player, better defender (vastly better team/help defender, actually). It adds up to at least a 10% difference in impact prime vs. prime and especially peak vs peak. No version of Kobe is seeing '89-'92 Jordan, and especially '90 or '91 Jordan.



Petro never scored more than 26 on the Bulls, and that was on 40% shooting. He did have a couple of good games in the low-mid 20's against them, though. Regardless, players like Petrovic are in many ways harder to stop than players like Kobe, because he plays without the ball, is a better shooter, and was a smarter player. Kobe's strengths as an offensive player, by contrast, play right into Jordan's strengths as a defender. He'd get sucked in to a 1-on-1 battle and Jordan would pretty handily get the better of that matchup.[/QUOTE]

Funny how I always read these MJ vs Kobe one on one comparisons, people fail to realize a game is different then a one on one matchup. And even then, how many times do we see Kobe take hard 'contested' jumpers, while MJ had tons of clean looks at the basket as he easily separated himself from his defender/s?

Kobe fans love to relish on Kobe's tough contested shots, which is a joke actually. MJ was such a good one on one player and was superior in almost every single aspect that he was basically getting open looks.

Fools.

Like you mentioned, Kobe would play into MJ's hands.

[QUOTE=RaininTwos]I was wrong about the Drazen bit, but god damn, I guess Jordan is Jesus. Here we go with the massive overrating of the guy again.[/QUOTE]
Jordan was GOD. Kobe is a mere disciple:bowdown: :bowdown:

[QUOTE=andgar923]Funny how I always read these MJ vs Kobe one on one comparisons, people fail to realize a game is different then a one on one matchup. And even then, how many times do we see Kobe take hard 'contested' jumpers, while MJ had tons of clean looks at the basket as he easily separated himself from his defender/s?

Kobe fans love to relish on Kobe's tough contested shots, which is a joke actually. MJ was such a good one on one player and was superior in almost every single aspect that he was basically getting open looks.

Fools.

Like you mentioned, Kobe would play into MJ's hands.[/QUOTE]
In a one on one setting with no help defense, Kobe would blow by MJ or get wide open clean looks from midrange at will.

[QUOTE=rhythmic

[QUOTE=tpols]In a one on one setting with no help defense, Kobe would blow by MJ or get wide open clean looks from midrange at will.[/QUOTE]

LOL

YOu mean the other way around.

Again... MJ used to get uncontested shots faaaaaaaar more than Kobe ever did, and this is during game situations where defenders are switching and the lanes were clogged, hand checking was legal etc.etc.

WTF do you think will happen if Kobe guarded him on a one on one matchup?

This is MJ the same dude that would viciously make Pip into his personal bitch so badly that coaches had to stop the abuse. Yes, that Pippen, the player usually regarded as the best wing defender of all time.

ROFL Kobe would be taking contested jumper after contested jumper after contested jumper.

[QUOTE=LJJ]Not really. At age 38-39 he still averaged more RPG and APG, and less TOP than Kobe Bryant for his career.

Not even Kobe's worst season, career average. That's pretty damn efficient across the stat sheet. Sure his FG% wasn't what it used to be (at almost 40 years old), but being an efficient playing on the floor is about more than just shooting percentage.[/QUOTE]

I haven't been on this forum for too long and I'm usually not very active, but I am starting to see why there are so many Kobe fans defending the guy.

It's funny how the same excuses guys like you make for Jordan, don't fly when it's for Kobe. How traits like competitiveness, killer instinct etc. don't get Kobe the nod; no for him, it's "guy's FG is lower then Wade's, he is not as good." Look at GOAT's post; "but Jordan was competitive, he won games for Washington...". Or yours "he still averaged more RPG and APG and less TOP".

Honest question, do you guys actually see the double standard in all of this?

Jordan played two years in Washington I believe, his last season [B]he had the least efficient shooting season in league history for anyone who averaged over 20 PPG.[/B] That is a damn fact, open the record books, research it etc.

Jordan at 40 was still running after Ron Mercer and blocking him like he's his bitch. Yes, Jordan is the greatest ever (well 2nd to Magic, but that's my personal opinion). And at 40, he was still impressive, very impressive indeed. Maybe I misunderstood what GOAT was trying to say, did he mean Jordan was very good "for his age" or "compared to the best in the league that year"? If he meant the latter, then that is absolutely not true.

*I am talking about his final season, not sure why you guys are referring to his 1st season with Washington.

anybody else remember the line

"why all my cases ain't get thrown out/
and why does team usa keep getting blown out?/




team with duncan,iverson, young beron, young wade, young melo,

stunk up the joint in 2004

prime iverson and duncan..and they lost...



dream team just kicked everybody's ass..........greatest TEAM ever assembled...

[QUOTE=RaininTwos]I was wrong about the Drazen bit, but god damn, I guess Jordan is Jesus. Here we go with the massive overrating of the guy again.[/QUOTE]

How did I overrate him by saying he would outplay Kobe? He was clearly the better player, so I'm not sure what the problem is. It's revisionist history to act like they're equal or even almost equal. Kobe needs to see Magic and Bird before he can see Jordan.

[QUOTE=swag2011]Damn, after reading the whole thing Jordan went IN on Kobe lmao. And i'm a Kobe stan. But why are people making it seem like he said this out of no where? Why is no one (ESPN) or anything mentioning that he was ASKED?


[url]http://video-embed.nola.com/services/player/bcpid651482428001?bctid=1727434664001&bckey=AQ~~,AAAAPmbRMTE~,BWCCSzT6s9n2dkm1Oa2dELBPh6LJOKDw[/url][/QUOTE]

Erase this, after listening to the context of the question and Kobe's reply.
I change my opinion on Jordan, he really is a pompous jackass.

Kobe is on the damn team, and a reporter asks him a direct question. As a leader you try to motivate your team, what did you people expect him to say "Oh we have no shot against the Dream Team"? :rolleyes:

Of course Jordan had to reply to feed his gigantic ego.

[QUOTE=rhythmic †hesis]I haven't been on this forum for too long and I'm usually not very active, but I am starting to see why there are so many Kobe fans defending the guy.

It's funny how the same excuses guys like you make for Jordan, don't fly when it's for Kobe. How traits like competitiveness, killer instinct etc. don't get Kobe the nod; no for him, it's "guy's FG is lower then Wade's, he is not as good." Look at GOAT's post; "but Jordan was competitive, he won games for Washington...". Or yours "he still averaged more RPG and APG and less TOP".

Honest question, do you guys actually see the double standard in all of this?

Jordan played two years in Washington I believe, his last season [B]he had the least efficient shooting season in league history for anyone who averaged over 20 PPG.[/B] That is a damn fact, open the record books, research it etc.

Jordan at 40 was still running after Ron Mercer and blocking him like he's his bitch. Yes, Jordan is the greatest ever (well 2nd to Magic, but that's my personal opinion). And at 40, he was still impressive, very impressive indeed. Maybe I misunderstood what GOAT was trying to say, did he mean Jordan was very good "for his age" or "compared to the best in the league that year"? If he meant the latter, then that is absolutely not true.

*I am talking about his final season, not sure why you guys are referring to his 1st season with Washington.[/QUOTE]

First you are talking about efficient. Which should obviously be interpreted as efficient overall, not specifically in one carefully segmented element of the game.

Now you have changed up to strictly "shot efficiency".

Those are two extremely different things, idiot. Old MJ was still an efficient and very good player in his final years, but not an efficient shooter anymore.

[QUOTE=andgar923]LOL

YOu mean the other way around.

Again... MJ used to get uncontested shots faaaaaaaar more than Kobe ever did, and this is during game situations where defenders are switching and the lanes were clogged, hand checking was legal etc.etc.

WTF do you think will happen if Kobe guarded him on a one on one matchup?

This is MJ the same dude that would viciously make Pip into his personal bitch so badly that coaches had to stop the abuse. Yes, that Pippen, the player usually regarded as the best wing defender of all time.

ROFL Kobe would be taking contested jumper after contested jumper after contested jumper.[/QUOTE]
It would happen both ways.. Kobe's first step, length, and footwork though would allow him to create space with ease in a one on one setting. And if MJ pressed him Kobe would be gone.

Of course Kobe's been used to having 6'7-6'8 beasts on him with longer reaches, very quick feet, and pure defensive specialist mentalities as well so having a 6'4.5 Jordan on him would be like heaven to shoot over.. would be like he wasnt even there.

[QUOTE=tpols]In a one on one setting with no help defense, Kobe would blow by MJ or get wide open clean looks from midrange at will.[/QUOTE]

And who plays in a one on one setting with no help? This isn't one on one ball. And you're kidding yourself if you think that Jordan couldn't stay in front of Kobe or contest his shots to a FAR greater degree than vice versa. FAR greater. Jordan could get by Kobe at will even in a GAME setting - never mind one on one with no help.

[QUOTE=Clove21]Why the hell would people focus on the Kobe vs Jordan matchup? Kobe is on the downturn and probably wouldn't be able to handle Jordan too well, but you got prime Lebron, Durant and Deron right now against players like Magic and Bird who were at the end of their career.[/QUOTE]


:wtf:


First of all Bird wasn't even practicing with the team and hardly played at all. Secondly why would Magic be guarding Lebron? LOL

Lebron would have Pippen guarding him genius.

[QUOTE=tpols]It would happen both ways.. Kobe's first step, length, and footwork though would allow him to create space with ease in a one on one setting. And if MJ pressed him Kobe would be gone.

Of course Kobe's been used to having 6'7-6'8 beasts on him with longer reaches, very quick feet, and pure defensive specialist mentalities as well so having a 6'4.5 Jordan on him would be like heaven to shoot over.. would be like he wasnt even there.[/QUOTE]
idiot

You guys are complete morons. Jordans own teamates and coaches say Kobe is comparable/close to Jordan. Yet you act like Jordan is going against some D-Leaguer.

[QUOTE=lilgodfather1]Because Jordan is the best evaluator of talent... In fact MJ believing that the DT would win makes me believe that 2012 would destroy them because he is such a bad basketball mnd.[/QUOTE]


:lol

this.

The difference maker in this hypothetical matchup would not be MJ or Kobe. It would be in the paint. The Dream Team bigs would be their biggest advantage. Plus let's stop acting like the Dream Team was this omniscient, all wise group of sages who invented basketball while the '12 team is filled with ignorant rookies with no knowledge of the game who only know how to run and jump.

[QUOTE=LJJ]First you are talking about efficient. Which should obviously be interpreted as efficient overall, not specifically in one carefully segmented element of the game.

Now you have changed up to strictly "shot efficiency".

Those are two extremely different things, idiot. Old MJ was still an efficient and very good player in his final years, but not an efficient shooter anymore.[/QUOTE]

I put in brackets (for any player who scored over 20 PPG). I am sorry your tiny brain couldn't comprehend what I meant, idiot.

If I meant overall efficiency I probably would have used stats such as PER or other parameters, but I bet you realized that back then; you just couldn't help yourself from riding Jordan's dick some more.

[QUOTE=rhythmic

[QUOTE=rhythmic

[QUOTE=tontoz]:wtf:


First of all Bird wasn't even practicing with the team and hardly played at all. Secondly why would Magic be guarding Lebron? LOL

Lebron would have Pippen guarding him genius.[/QUOTE]

I'm not talking about head to head matchups. I'm talking about looking at the state of the team as a whole.

People go "OMG, Dream Team had Jordan/Magic/Bird, they can't ever lose!!!" and don't think about it being old Magic and Bird. They are going on name alone and not looking at how all players involved were/are playing.

The only matchup people are treating as a reality is the 29 year old Jordan vs 34 year old Kobe matchup.

Put the Jordan matchup aside and tell me who on the original Dream Team dominates the game to the point that they blow out the 12' team? And then tell me who shuts down Lebron (Pippen, lol), Durant and Deron?

Not happening.

[QUOTE=andgar923]idiot[/QUOTE]
:coleman:

[QUOTE=AlphaWolf24]Kobe=MJ
.[/QUOTE]


Typical KOME d1ck Rider................:facepalm