The Dark Knight Trilogy

[QUOTE=Anti Hero]Just had my first mandatory 50 week this week (yesterday in fact). I knew it was mandatory like that though going in. I had a friend that worked there two years ago and he gave me the skinny. I'm just made that I started off with 20 hours ATO and didn't know about it until after they went black out.

I do inbound stowing.. it sucks. They give you some pretty unreasonable rates to follow given the items and space (or lack there of). I've helped out some other areas too, no sort stow and some dock work.[/QUOTE]

Nice man. Yea we didn't get a heads up at all. Also we have a 6 point system. Every 3 months you get it reset and a call off (for sick or personal) is 1.5 points... so 4 sick days per 3 months. Anymore than that = instant termination. Which sucks when you're working a 6th day and have no time to get shit done. I've already had to use two personal days.

I agree 100 percent about the rates. They give unrealistic rates for everybody. They preach safety and quality yet the people with the best rates that get praised always halfass the quality aspect, break safety rules etc. In otherwords it's impossible to meet their number requirements AND be safe+maintain quality.

[QUOTE=Anti Hero]Yea, we have the six point system too. I've used one.. just mad because had I known about ATO I would have used that instead of getting a point :lol.

Same here man, people who get the best rates just shove shit in the bins regardless of quality. The Coach will come around (he's a Jamaican) and says Ronald (sounds like Rhoanald) you busted your cart again.. and I say Sam your space is busted.. there isn't just a place where I can put 60 teapots in, I gotta move around and look. :lol[/QUOTE]

:roll: yea man it's pretty fu**ing cutthroat for sure. Yesterday for the first time (been there about 4 weeks now) I got a written notice about my rates not being up to par from the 21st-22nd. It's not an official write up but still made me laugh that they trip so hard on it.

[QUOTE=The Mamba]How exactly was his character ruined?

He's IMO easily the second best villain both in his arc in the story and performance of all-time.

1) Ledger's Joker (TDK)
2) Hardy's Bane (TDK Rises)

The rest ...[/QUOTE]

You seem like a HUGE Batman head. Got a question for ya: In your opinion, what made Bruce "stronger" than Bane during their final fight? They were both part of the 'League of Shadows'. Why and how was Bruce able to defeat him?

...And how do you think Bane would fair vs. Ra's Al Ghul? Same ideology, but Bane was obviously a bit more extreme (in Ra's' eyes at least).

[QUOTE=Anti Hero]Bane has been my favorite villain (Batman) for a few years now, even before it was announced that he would be the villain for the movie. We've discussed it in here a few times but, they had everything right. He was the guy that was born in the prison. He rises out of the prison, smart, capable and a badass. I liked their interpretation of the venom serum. And then bing bang boom, they switch it and give it all to Talia?!?! Totally ruined it, then to ruin it even more they have catwoman bust in on a bat bike and just shoot him point blank with the same gun that destroyed all those cars blocking the bridge.. Just let Batman fight it out with him, maybe not kill him but he doesn't have to save him either (like with Ra's). You could have had Bane and the bomb blow up together somehow dropping over the ocean or some shit.[/QUOTE]

Yeah

[QUOTE=kuniva_dAMiGhTy]You seem like a HUGE Batman head. Got a question for ya: In your opinion, what made Bruce "stronger" than Bane during their final fight? They were both part of the 'League of Shadows'. Why and how was Bruce able to defeat him? [/QUOTE]

when Bruce made the jump without the rope he learned that fighting with fear makes you stronger than fighting fearless.

That knowledge made him push harder in his second fight against Bane.

[QUOTE=Anti Hero]
A shame that they ruined his character in 60 seconds.[/QUOTE]
How exactly was his character ruined?

He's IMO easily the second best villain both in his arc in the story and performance of all-time.

1) Ledger's Joker (TDK)
2) Hardy's Bane (TDK Rises)

The rest ...

[QUOTE=Brujesino]Bane dying the way he did was lame.[/quote]
How was Bane dying lame? What were they supposed to do?

He already conceited defeat to the Batman "I broke you"

Batman came in there, broke his mask and then molly whopped his ass and bested him fair and square. Bane needed Talia's help to gain the upper hand again.

But Batman doesn't kill, and Bane isn't going to be someone who is caught. It made total sense that Catwoman be the one to save Batman (the point of her character arc was to show Batman made a positive impact on someone, and she's loyal ... like a cat) and blast Bane away with CANON FIRE from the bat-pod.

He took a blast from a very large canon, and took it like a champ. How is that lame? After he was defeated by Bruce, his character became pointless. Yet he still managed to have another terrific line of dialogue

"You'll just have to imagine the fire"

And then Hathaway's delivery of her line after offing Bane was super on point.

[QUOTE=Brujesino]**** that character he aint Robin you cant just create your own ****ing robin.[/QUOTE]
Nah, you just didn't get it. Nolan and Bale went on record saying they didn't want Robin in these films. And he wasn't in these films. Gone is the corny 12 year old, completely un-realistic vigilante side kick who makes quips and wears elf boots in red and green.

Instead, we get a brilliant re-invention of the character that makes more sense, has more heart and ultimately a lot cooler.

And he isn't Robin. That's why you're hung up on it. His name, yes is literally Robin. Which is fan service. But he's an original character who takes the best elements of Robin's purpose from the comics and makes it more believable and nuanced. What, you thought they were going to give us Dick Grayson, Tim Drake, and Jason Todd? There has been tons of Robins in the comics.

Instead we get an amazing amalgamation of all the Robin characters, molded into a new character who serves Robin's greatest purposes:

- Inspired by the Batman
- Bring optimism in the face of cynicism
- Re-inspires Bruce Wayne
- Connects to Bruce on an orphan level
- Carries the legacy / mantle of the Batman when Wayne is done

Robin John Blake is an interesting character. He's optimistic in a cynical surrounding, he's angry and driven without being an annoying and edgy teenager / child type character. He's smart, and idealistic. He almost represents a son figure to both Wayne and Gordon. He represents the both of them at various points in their life.

He actually is supposed to be insinuated as the next Batman at the end of the film. The entire trilogy was about Wayne's goal of creating a symbol, an idea, a persona ... a legend. He found a replacement he trusted, who he connected with, leaving Gotham in good hands.

Bruce Wayne succeeded in his quest started in Batman Begins.

Legends don't die. Symbols can't be killed. They transcend one man's life. That's why Robin is left the tools if Gotham should ever need a dark knight to sink their hands into the filth to protect the city and act beyond the law. Afterall, laws, men, political officials can be bent and broken ... not always serving justice.

White knights are fine, but dark knights will always be needed at some point to protect. Only wolfs can defeat other wolfs.

Nolan's ending was a brilliant idea. He even found a way to adapt a very corny character, and make it believable and interesting. I never thought I could ever like a Robin character in the Batman mythos until Nolan gave is John Blake.

[QUOTE=kuniva_dAMiGhTy]You seem like a HUGE Batman head. Got a question for ya: In your opinion, what made Bruce "stronger" than Bane during their final fight? They were both part of the 'League of Shadows'. Why and how was Bruce able to defeat him?[/quote]
Bruce wasn't "stronger" per se, but the whole theme of "the fire rises" meant Bruce at the start of the film was so fear-less that he longed for death.

As Batman he wasn't in his prime in this film. He's in his 40's, and has a beaten broken body. As explained when in the pit (which is a brilliant realistic adaptation of the lazarus pit) he needed to regain that fear of losing his life. The fire rising in Bruce was to actually LIVE again. Bruce could only have a life if he sacrificed the Batman persona. Otherwise he'd always be stuck in Gotham, stuck in his obsession and depression.

When you have fear, you can produce adrenaline. Not wanting to see his city (a physical representation of his father's legacy) tortured or blown to hell in an atomic blaze, he fights harder / stronger / faster because he has the renewed sense of urgency to live life again.

Tactic wise, after his stint in the prison he knows the mask is an anesthetic that makes Bane feel no pain, thus making him invincible. So he beats the breathing device off of Bane's face.

But I don't think Bane could've won a fair fight v.s. Batman in TDK. That is him at the PEAK of his abilities.

[QUOTE=kuniva_dAMiGhTy]And how do you think Bane would fair vs. Ra's Al Ghul? Same ideology, but Bane was obviously a bit more extreme (in Ra's' eyes at least).[/QUOTE]
In a pure fight? Pre mask ... Ra's. After the mask, Bane ... easily. Given the anesthetic.

As for their approach to terrorism. Ra's did his in a fashion where it wasn't as blunt. He wanted to make it seem like he would manipulate the city to killing itself through the bio fear toxin weapon. Bane tortures Gotham to punish Bruce, but his means were more militaristic. Clinical, even. Much like the way he fights.

It's interesting the difference of the LOS from Begins to Rises. In BEGINS the LOS under Ra's is a gang of ninja assassins. Under Bane, they are more militaristic. They're mercenaries. Ra's operated from the shadows, Bane was blunt like a dictator. He came at you head on like a military leader.

To the point. He wanted to just off Gotham with a neutron bomb. That's a lot more efficient and brutal if you ask me. Ra's wanted Gotham to be cleansed bu re-built. Bane wanted it to completely burn.

I think Bane being revealed to be doing it for love doesn't take away his bad ass nature. And it doesn't make him a puppet. Bane and Talia co-lead the LOS. If anything it amplifies how bad ass Bane was. People do crazy things for love / redemption. Plus, it's accurate to the source. In the comics Bane was a part of the LOS for a time, and hooked up with Talia. In the comics he's a hard ass, but has a heart. It makes him more layered and dimensional.

The only villain who should be visualized as a pure force of evil, without reason is the Joker. He's a finite character. He's there to show a mirror to society's face.

Thanks for responding, Mamba. Fantastic analysis bro.

[QUOTE=Anti Hero]In a fist fight?? I like Bane. If Ra's were to win it'd be because he was more cunning and used surroundings and maybe all them ninjas helping out. I don't think Ra's would have just thrown leather with Bane straight up. [/quote]

Or just pushing their agendas. Either way I agree. Bane was an entirely different animal.

I remember talking to Dondadda about this. Is it now a consensus that Talia wasn't needed and totally irrelevant? Not only did she destroy Bane's character, but the vibe of the movie. Save for Levitt finding the cave and learning that Bruce is alive, I just don't see why she had to be introduced. That killed it for me.

[quote]Bane, where is the bomb?
Actually, I'm the real villain *Stab*.
Talia?
Yep! Bane, finish this guy off.
POW!
Thanks Catwoman, that was close.[/QUOTE]

:oldlol:

it depends... if you are talking about Ra's from the first movie... he is old and way out of his prime... Bruce defeated him twice, when escaping the ninja lair and during the final fight in Gotham...

now if you are talking about prime Ra's Al Ghul... he is probably the greatest assassin in the Batman universe, he is only truly matched by a prime Batman...

The Dark Knight is massively overrated. When Heath ledger/the Joker isn't on the screen the movie is basically long winded and dull. He is about the only thing that brings life to the 2nd sequel. The first movie is easily the best of the Nolan movies.

[QUOTE=Smoke117]The Dark Knight is massively overrated. When Heath ledger/the Joker isn't on the screen the movie is basically long winded and dull. He is about the only thing that brings life to the 2nd sequel. The first movie is easily the best of the Nolan movies.[/QUOTE]
I agree with the 1st film being the best. Don't agree that TDK was massively overrated. TDK was a phenomenal experience not only because of the Joker but everything surrounding Gotham while he was terrorizing the city and also the transformation of Harvey Dent/Two Face.

Everybody already know i loved the trilogy. I wasn't too high on Ledgers joker, because it was less hilarious and more sadistic and psycho, and i grew up on the animated series. But that last movie, the way it tied everything together, was excellent. Plus the Bane vs Batman fight, the first one, that was epic. Bane is freaky.

Wouldn't care to change anything about it, minus Robin's name being Robin.

[QUOTE=Smoke117]The Dark Knight is massively overrated. When Heath ledger/the Joker isn't on the screen the movie is basically long winded and dull. He is about the only thing that brings life to the 2nd sequel. The first movie is easily the best of the Nolan movies.[/QUOTE]
Talking that crazy stuff again.

What is it with you and deeming anything massively beloved and clearly superior, overrated? MJ? TDK? Overrated? Haha far from it.

BEGINS is quality, don't get me wrong. It's good, but TDK is GREAT. Like another level of cinematic greatness. Let me break it down.

On film making terms, Nolan had yet to hit his stride, and Wally Pfiester's cinematography in TDK alone trumps the visuals from Batman Begins.

Bale carries that movie. In TDK you get ELITE level performances from the entire cast. Bale, Caine, Eckhart, Oldman, and Ledger.

BEGINS has Katie Holmes and hackneyed 3rd act. That alone brings it down a few notches. You can tell that after Batman makes his debut, the film that Nolan wanted to tell ends, and then kicks in blockbuster / superhero movie cliches ... and almost borderline cheese (which is inherent with superhero genre films)

TDK? Whole 'nother level. It raised the bar so high for this type of film, that even a great flick like TDK Rises would be held to a standard no other film in the genre can touch.

As a script, it's world's better. It makes relevant social commentary, has ridiculously well crafted dialogue (at times BEGINS has atrocious dialogue that beats you over the head with themes) ... and the whole fact that it is by far the best post 9/11 War On Terror allegory on film says something for it's level of relevance and depth.

TDK is a generational defining CLASSIC. Instant classic, even. Only idiots would say it's overrated or that the movie is crap outside of Ledger's Joker. It shattered genre expectations and cliches. When have you ever seen a superhero flick where essentially the villain wins at the end?

Btw, much of what you see of Ledger's Joker was on the script pages. So the character was written extremely well. Ledger brought it to life, with nuanced and frightening believability, but it was there on the page.

You can't just remove a major element of a story and then say the movie would suck without him. Of course it would, it would be a different story. The Joker is as iconic as the Batman. And watching two icons duke it out for the soul of a believable city is what made this movie special.

Saying TDK is overrated makes your thoughts on this subject completely invalid. It was a major game changer, and the crown jewel of the franchise. By far.

BEGINS is a good origin, and film with a lot of pathos ... and probably the best character study of Bruce Wayne we will see on film. It was fun seeing him put together a legend piece by piece. But TDK is where it all goes down. When the legend is tested by another juggernaut.

TDK is even superior down to it's action set pieces, which too were utterly amazing. And completely practical.

:oldlol: @ TDK being overrated. You should get smacked. Probably the only film I've seen that exceeded expectations in a major way.

It was a cinematic roller coaster that held you on the edge of your seat from start to finish.

[QUOTE=Loneshot]I wasn't too high on Ledgers joker, because it was less hilarious and more sadistic and psycho[/QUOTE]
The Joker has plenty of dark, un-comfortable humor in TDK, just like the darkest incarnation of his character.

He literally views society as a joke. And IMO he was as funny if not more than Nicholson's Joker. He wasn't goofy, he just made jokes that made you feel uncomfortable to laugh at ... "magic trick", etc

And for like the 9th time, John Blake isn't "Robin" ... he's Robin John Blake. His first name merely being a tip of the hat to the inspiration.

Another point we fundamentally disagree on, I much preferred Katie Holmes to Maggie Gylenhaal for dramatic impact of having the same actress play the same character and honestly, Maggie Gylenhaal did not look attactive in The Dark Knight...

[QUOTE=LA Lakers]Another point we fundamentally disagree on, I much preferred Katie Holmes to Maggie Gylenhaal for dramatic impact of having the same actress play the same character and honestly, Maggie Gylenhaal did not look attactive in The Dark Knight...[/QUOTE]

They were both terrible. The only female co star they got right in the trilogy was Anne Hathaway.

Yeah. Hathaway was great. Even Marion Cottilard was underused, undeveloped...

[QUOTE=LA Lakers]Another point we fundamentally disagree on, I much preferred Katie Holmes to Maggie Gylenhaal for dramatic impact of having the same actress play the same character and honestly, Maggie Gylenhaal did not look attactive in The Dark Knight...[/QUOTE]
I'm not claiming Maggie as eye candy. But she can act circles around Katie Holmes.

Maggie had the tenacity and intelligence to make me believe she was a DA assistant. Katie Holmes was not convincing at all. Please, dude.

I don't think the character of Rachel was meant to be eye candy. Anne Hathaway isn't eye candy either, but she can act.

Marion's character, if underused ... she clearly is a very good actress as well.

Haha, Nolan was planning on casting Rachel McAdams. Should've just done that instead. Good enough acting and good looking. But true enough, Maggie would look the part of a DA's assistant moreso than the other girls.

I thought Rises sucked.
I like Batman and pick up a comic every now and then. I read the original story in which Bane "broke" the bat and I expected a lot out of this movie, but thought it was horrible.

[B]This might be over the top, but below are some of the things I disliked about the movie.. If people liked it cool, this is just my (not so humble) opinion:
[/B]
1.The beginning with the plane/blood transfusion thing didn't make any sense.
2. Bane had zero motive (apprentice of Rah, who wanted to destroy Gotham to "honour" his master, who disliked him. However, Gotham was all cleaned up and actually a nice city now, so why destroy it? Was it because he loved Talia, which was ridiculous?
3. Gotham was a great city now because of the "Dent" act. That's not what Gotham is supposed to be like. I know Nolan can do with the story whatever he wanted to, but that was dissapointing.
4. Batman was out for 7 years!! he turned into the anti Bruce Wayne. horrible.. what a way to reveal your identity also.
5. Robin. Who knew Batman's identity, because of the look in his eye.
6. Rahs Ghost coming to visit Bruce.
7. Bruce's recovery in "hell" with world's worst criminals, who were quite nice and helpfull and had TV in there.
8. The jump. like there was no way these people could climb out of a pit with all the tools they had. Then a little girl who's like 4 ft tall makes the damn jump. Bla bla it's not about physical strength this that. still ridiculous.
9. Talia :facepalm :facepalm
10. Bane living in the sewers with hoodlums who will follow him no matter what and can take over an entire city just by walking around with guns. lol.
11 The whole nuclear bomb thing.
12. the batplane :facepalm way to stick with the realistic/dark/edgy vibe they had in the first two movies.
13. Catwoman, masterthief, utlimate seductress - corny as hell. Over the top acting. stupid suit.
14. People with big guns running up to fistfight batman. Why? just shoot him already. Same with the cops/bad guys fight in the end. They all have guns but just run up to fight eachother instead of shoot.
15. batman being in gotham all of a sudden in the end.
16. Bane wearing a mask like a painkiller thingie.. He was nothing more than a big brute with a strange voice. Mastermind? When did he come across as a mastermind? What happend to the venum. Why was he as tall as Batman and how was he able to take 10 superhard punches to the face without going KO?

end rant.

[QUOTE=Toizumi]I thought Rises sucked.
I like Batman and pick up a comic every now and then. I read the original story in which Bane "broke" the bat and I expected a lot out of this movie, but thought it was horrible.

[B]This might be over the top, but below are some of the things I disliked about the movie.. If people liked it cool, this is just my (not so humble) opinion:
[/B]
1.The beginning with the plane/blood transfusion thing didn't make any sense.
2. Bane had zero motive (apprentice of Rah, who wanted to destroy Gotham to "honour" his master, who disliked him. However, Gotham was all cleaned up and actually a nice city now, so why destroy it? Was it because he loved Talia, which was ridiculous?
3. Gotham was a great city now because of the "Dent" act. That's not what Gotham is supposed to be like. I know Nolan can do with the story whatever he wanted to, but that was dissapointing.
4. Batman was out for 7 years!! he turned into the anti Bruce Wayne. horrible.. what a way to reveal your identity also.
5. Robin. Who knew Batman's identity, because of the look in his eye.
6. Rahs Ghost coming to visit Bruce.
7. Bruce's recovery in "hell" with world's worst criminals, who were quite nice and helpfull and had TV in there.
8. The jump. like there was no way these people could climb out of a pit with all the tools they had. Then a little girl who's like 4 ft tall makes the damn jump. Bla bla it's not about physical strength this that. still ridiculous.
9. Talia :facepalm :facepalm
10. Bane living in the sewers with hoodlums who will follow him no matter what and can take over an entire city just by walking around with guns. lol.
11 The whole nuclear bomb thing.
12. the batplane :facepalm way to stick with the realistic/dark/edgy vibe they had in the first two movies.
13. Catwoman, masterthief, utlimate seductress - corny as hell. Over the top acting. stupid suit.
14. People with big guns running up to fistfight batman. Why? just shoot him already. Same with the cops/bad guys fight in the end. They all have guns but just run up to fight eachother instead of shoot.
15. batman being in gotham all of a sudden in the end.
16. Bane wearing a mask like a painkiller thingie.. He was nothing more than a big brute with a strange voice. Mastermind? When did he come across as a mastermind? What happend to the venum. Why was he as tall as Batman and how was he able to take 10 superhard punches to the face without going KO?

end rant.[/QUOTE]
Some of your rants are ridiculous, but I'm surprised out of all of them you didn't mention once Selina Kyle's girlfriend side-kick. Stupidiest f*cking character in the movie.

I actually like the Talia twist now. Bane is very much the mirror opposite of Batman. [B]Imprisoned in the pit and never escaped[/B], until Ra's came. Excommunicated by Ra's because he reminded him of the hell his wife was left to die. Bruce escaped from the pit. Ra's deemed Bruce as his successor. I think many are also under the impression Bane works for Talia when in fact he disobeyed her order to not kill Bats.

[QUOTE=Joshumitsu]Haha, Nolan was planning on casting Rachel McAdams. Should've just done that instead. Good enough acting and good looking. But true enough, Maggie would look the part of a DA's assistant moreso than the other girls.[/QUOTE]
Totally agreed.

Although, I did prefer Katie Holmes acting over Maggie's by far, although like you said Maggie looked the part.

[QUOTE=Toizumi]I thought Rises sucked.
I like Batman and pick up a comic every now and then. I read the original story in which Bane "broke" the bat and I expected a lot out of this movie, but thought it was horrible.

[B]This might be over the top, but below are some of the things I disliked about the movie.. If people liked it cool, this is just my (not so humble) opinion:
[/B]
1.The beginning with the plane/blood transfusion thing didn't make any sense. - What is there that doesn't make sense? [COLOR="Red"]They wanted to fake the doctor's death. [/COLOR]
2. Bane had zero motive (apprentice of Rah, who wanted to destroy Gotham to "honour" his master, who disliked him. However, Gotham was all cleaned up and actually a nice city now, so why destroy it? Was it because he loved Talia, which was ridiculous? - [COLOR="Red"]not sure if you watched the movie. The whole part was summed up in the pit.[/COLOR]
3. Gotham was a great city now because of the "Dent" act. That's not what Gotham is supposed to be like. I know Nolan can do with the story whatever he wanted to, but that was dissapointing.
4. Batman was out for 7 years!! he turned into the anti Bruce Wayne. horrible.. what a way to reveal your identity also. - [COLOR="Red"]who did he reveal his identity to?[/COLOR]
5. Robin. Who knew Batman's identity, because of the look in his eye. - [COLOR="Red"]agreed...stupid.[/COLOR]
6. Rahs Ghost coming to visit Bruce. - [COLOR="Red"]so?[/COLOR]
7. Bruce's recovery in "hell" with world's worst criminals, who were quite nice and helpfull and had TV in there. - [COLOR="Red"]TV was there for bruce to watch gotham burn. Couldn't u figure that one out. Those criminals are criminals judged by LOS, so there might actually be some decent people.[/COLOR]
8. The jump. like there was no way these people could climb out of a pit with all the tools they had. Then a little girl who's like 4 ft tall makes the damn jump. Bla bla it's not about physical strength this that. still ridiculous. - [COLOR="Red"]symbolism...learn it.[/COLOR]
9. Talia :facepalm :facepalm - [COLOR="Red"]her death sucked...her being the boss sucked.[/COLOR]
10. Bane living in the sewers with hoodlums who will follow him no matter what and can take over an entire city just by walking around with guns. lol. - [COLOR="Red"]LOS[/COLOR]
11 The whole nuclear bomb thing. -[COLOR="Red"] eh.[/COLOR]
12. the batplane :facepalm way to stick with the realistic/dark/edgy vibe they had in the first two movies. - [COLOR="Red"]eh.[/COLOR]
13. Catwoman, masterthief, utlimate seductress - corny as hell. Over the top acting. stupid suit. -[COLOR="Red"] i thought michelle pfiefer was better as well. [/COLOR]
14. People with big guns running up to fistfight batman. Why? just shoot him already. Same with the cops/bad guys fight in the end. They all have guns but just run up to fight eachother instead of shoot.
15. batman being in gotham all of a sudden in the end. - [COLOR="red"]who did you want there? superman?[/COLOR]
16. Bane wearing a mask like a painkiller thingie.. He was nothing more than a big brute with a strange voice. Mastermind? When did he come across as a mastermind? What happend to the venum. Why was he as tall as Batman and how was he able to take 10 superhard punches to the face without going KO? - [COLOR="Red"]this movie never really followed the comics to a dime.[/COLOR]

end rant.[/QUOTE]


you have some really ridiculous rants. some are valid. Its almost the same as saying how did tom hagan become the consigliere...MAJOR PLOT HOLE

[QUOTE=D-Wade316]I think many are also under the impression Bane works for Talia when in fact he disobeyed her order to not kill Bats.[/QUOTE]
Exactly. His motivations are out of love / redemption but I'd say they are more co-leaders.

[QUOTE=BMOGEFan]you have some really ridiculous rants. some are valid. Its almost the same as saying how did tom hagan become the consigliere...MAJOR PLOT HOLE[/QUOTE]

Yeah like I mention in the beginning of my post, this is my not so humble opinion and part of my comments are probably misplaced. I know the movie is more complex than I make it sound and it deserves more credit than I'm giving it.
I thought begins was great.. and TDK was based on "the killing joke" and "the long halloween", which in my opinion are two of the best comics out there. Rises, to me, felt like just another action movie. Mission Impossible 3/Avengers or whatever. The movie had the seductive but deadly female ally, the big brute bad guy, who's working for a surprise villian, the hero who sacrifices himself but turns out to be fine in the end, even the young cop who helps out is in there.
Imo pretty cliche. Thing is, a lot of people loved the movie, so I guess that opinions differ, which is fine.. Maybe I need to give the movie a second try. I just know that I left the theatre very dissapointed and a lot of people felt the same. Ohters loved it though and it had great reviews.

I'd just like to let you guys know, I thorougly enjoyed reading through this thread. I was in TDKR thread a lot before and I can't wait to watch this movie again now.

i thought the Bane and Robin characters were fantastic.. Bane was defintely scary and his voice and vocabulary were EXCELLENT

but what fukked it up is the story line.. him being talia's bltchboy was wrong..

nolan shoulda made bane epic like he did joker :cry:

[QUOTE=The Mamba]Exactly. His motivations are out of love / redemption but I'd say they are more co-leaders.[/QUOTE]
Not just that though. He wanted to prove he was more worthy of a successor to Ra's than Bruce. It's a brotherly competition between the two. The other was preferred, the other was snubbed.

[QUOTE=D-Wade316]Not just that though. He wanted to prove he was more worthy of a successor to Ra's than Bruce. It's a brotherly competition between the two. The other was preferred, the other was snubbed.[/QUOTE]
Interesting. Never thought of that before. It gives more valid reasons for Bane's motivations of wanting to a) blow up Gotham but b) to want to kill Bruce.

Plus, Bruce is the one who went balls deep in the one he loved.

Oh, and if you notice through out the movie Talia wants to lure Bruce away peacefully from Gotham so he can't protect it. After they bone, she talks about leaving and going away.

To me, the Talia/Bane thing was just a way to add a surprising twist to the end of it (even tho it wasn't all that surprising).

I, too, wish they would've focused more on Bane. In the comics, Bane is one of Batman's most compelling enemies (probably 2nd behind Joker). And I was pumped that Nolan would do this Bane right after he was Poison Ivy's dumb henchman in the 90's movies. But, basically, this Bane was a hired henchman, too. Dumb.

Other than that, I liked it.

[QUOTE=MK2V1GP]To me, the Talia/Bane thing was just a way to add a surprising twist to the end of it (even tho it wasn't all that surprising).

I, too, wish they would've focused more on Bane. In the comics, Bane is one of Batman's most compelling enemies (probably 2nd behind Joker). And I was pumped that Nolan would do this Bane right after he was Poison Ivy's dumb henchman in the 90's movies. But, basically, this Bane was a hired henchman, too. Dumb.

Other than that, I liked it.[/QUOTE]
You don't consider Bane from TDK Rises to be a compelling enemy of Batman? He's the only one to physically break him, and then make him watch his city get destroyed from a tv monitor in a prison underground while he uses the weapon tech that was built by his company, and saved for his vigilante alter ego.

That is incredibly cold, and totally bad ass.

It is over simplification to call Bane a dumb henchman in TDK Rises. Bane and Talia were basically working hand in hand. Do you consider Darth Vader to be a dumb henchman? I don't either. Bane essentially planned the entire attack on Gotham and how to physically trap Bruce in order to break him.

Bane had to run mercenary missions for Dagget for years before he brought him to Gotham, unknowingly being a pawn in Bane's grand scheme to take control of the city. I think you're selling him really sort. Bane was easily the most compelling villain outside of the Joker in this series. He's dimensional too. He's brawn, with brains. Cold and calculating, with a soul and heart underneath, even if it is misguided. He's intelligent and articulate, while still maintaining the ability to brutally tear you apart. He has presence.

Bane in Batman and Robin walks around like a monkey, bidding orders and saying things like "money work"

It's not even fair to insinuate that of the character in comparison to the one in TDK Rises. Bane was boss, and a total bad ass. Necessary evil. Great lines and delivery of dialogue, too. How does the twist that he's working with Talia as the inherited leaders of the League of Shadows make him any less cool?

He still was the one in the film doing all these crazy things to break the Batman and to destroy Gotham. Was Batman not a bad ass in the trilogy because he worked in conjunction with Gordon, Dent, Blake, Fox, Alfred and Selina Kyle?

Bane and Talia had relations in the comics. They both were in charge of the League of Assassins as well. Bane in the comics, while being a total bad ass, also has a soft side to him that few get to see. He's essentially a dark reflection of Bruce Wayne. They wrote Bane and Talia as a grittier version of Darth Vader and the Emperor.

Plus, I mean in order to complete the story from Batman Begins, it makes sense that the ancient old secret society terrorist organization that was stopped in Batman Begins would have a cyclical idea to get revenge and go back to destroy the Batman and Gotham once and for all, right?

:rolleyes:

TDKR was disappointing, at least to me. So many damn plot-holes.

[QUOTE=Segatti]TDKR was disappointing, at least to me. So many damn plot-holes.[/QUOTE]
Such as ...

Everyone disappointed with Bane's death.


Bane is not dead.

[QUOTE=Patrick Chewing]Everyone disappointed with Bane's death.


Bane is not dead.[/QUOTE]
Bane's dead. Canon blasts to the chest.

The trilogy is done, legend ends. Why would he be alive?

Disappointed with Bane's death = small brain.

[QUOTE=Money 23]Such as ...[/QUOTE]

i know i know...it doesn't explain how batman poured oil on the bridge for the fiery bat signal.

[QUOTE=BMOGEFan]i know i know...it doesn't explain how batman poured oil on the bridge for the fiery bat signal.[/QUOTE]
As if it even matters ...

And even then it's simple. He grapple gunned to the top of the bridge. Or stood on the wings of his stealth HOVER CRAFT to do it.

It's never confirmed that he died just like it's never confirmed for most villains. Plus, he does play a role in The Justice League which is now Nolan's next project along with Superman.


Then there's the issue with that very thick vest of his.....

[QUOTE=Money 23]As if it even matters ...

And even then it's simple. He grapple gunned to the top of the bridge. Or stood on the wings of his stealth HOVER CRAFT to do it.[/QUOTE]

i was being sarcastic to that guy...

[QUOTE=Patrick Chewing]It's never confirmed that he died just like it's never confirmed for most villains. Plus, he does play a role in The Justice League which is now Nolan's next project along with Superman.[/quote]
Since when is Bane in Justice League? Nolan's next project isn't Justice League. He hasn't even announced one yet. He is producing Man of Steel, and in a recent interview (IE a couple days ago for the blu ray release) he said he's producing Superman and then taking a break.

He's been head strong in not doing a superhero team up. He feels real character credibility comes from strong thematic solo character pieces. He's not doing the Justice League film. Nothing concrete has even been set up for that film, yet.

And Nolan's right. None of this stupid team up / continuity Marvel crap. Just give me great movies about the individual legends.

Bane died. Plain and simple, you tard. Those HUGE canons he gets blast with? They took out a wall of cars the scene before. How would he not be dead?

No amount of kevlar or body armor is stopping that ...

Plus, Bane is meant to die. He's on a suicide mission from the start. He would never let himself get taken into custody, and he's certainly not escaping all the GPD cops that over take the mercenaries and Blackgate prisoners.

Bane living is not logical, nor is it even insinuated.

[quote=BMOGEFan]i was being sarcastic to that guy...[/quote]
I know, wasn't jumping on you. Just adding on. We're on the same page, bro.

This film doesn't have the amount of plot holes people think. It's all addressed in dialogue.

Does the film move briskly over the course of a LOT of time creating the feeling of plot holes? Yes. But it's just because Nolan was crafting an EPIC that spans a lot of time over the film.

TDK Rises from the opening prologue to the end covers 8 - 9 months. Miranda Tate when addressing Wayne about the energy project and how the only man who could turn it into a bomb died in a plane crash "3 months ago" so there was nothing to fear.

People need to listen better. Claiming Bruce didn't have time to heal. Really? They said the neutron bomb deteriorates at a span of 5 months from the time they take it off the core. Bruce Wayne is held in a jail cell before they do that ... and returns just a day or two before the detonation.

That's almost 6 months in a jail cell to recover and build his body / mind / spirit back up. That's half a year. And on the television, the CNN channel covers "the Siege of Gotham" going into it's 5th month.