Things Kobe-haters say

[QUOTE=HorryIsMyMVP]Did you really use TS%? Ok. I admit it. Kobe is a good free throw shooter. So better footwork and better at free throws. Free throws are important so it's not a knock on him.[/QUOTE]

i posted fg% too in case you were gonna complain. :lol
kobe has the same fg% as J Rich, so where does the lower efficiency come in when you jump from 20ppg to 30 ppg? :confusedshrug:

don't tell you are going to just 3-point % now.
only 2 things I see J Rich's better than Kobe at: 3point shooting and less turnovers a game.

[QUOTE=riseagainst]i posted fg% too in case you were gonna complain. :lol
kobe has the same fg% as J Rich, so where does the lower efficiency come in when you jump from 20ppg to 30 ppg? :confusedshrug:

don't tell you are going to just 3-point % now.[/QUOTE]
Nah the only reason Kobe averages more points per game is because he takes more free throws. Kobe has taken almost 10,000 career free throws. While JRich is at 2,600. Alas from the original argument that they are the same and JRich could do what Kobe does if he got 10,000 free throws.

[QUOTE=HorryIsMyMVP]Nah the only reason Kobe averages more points per game is because he takes more free throws. Kobe has taken almost 10,000 career free throws. While JRich is at 2,600. Alas from the original argument that they are the same and JRich could do what Kobe does if he got 10,000 free throws.[/QUOTE]

but they still have the same fg%. how does that explain the "the jump from 20ppg to 30ppg isn't significant/relevant if you lower your efficiency."
:confusedshrug:
Kobe took 8 more shots a game during those 2 years I compared. they have the same FG%.

[QUOTE=riseagainst]but they still have the same fg%. how does that explain the "the jump from 20ppg to 30ppg isn't significant/relevant if you lower your efficiency."
:confusedshrug:
Kobe took 8 more shots a game during those 2 years I compared. they have the same FG%.[/QUOTE]
Alright I might have been wrong on a career level when it comes to efficiency but J-Rich can get hot and he does have better shot selection. I think some years he just doesn't care because he played for the Warriors. But when he is playing with a fire it's raw. One of the few players with a heart of gold. But hes not a Superstar in the NBA. So he will never get treated like one. He isn't in that elite club of people who get breathed on and take free throws.

[QUOTE=HorryIsMyMVP]Alright I might have been wrong on a career level when it comes to efficiency but J-Rich can get hot and he does have better shot selection. I think some years he just doesn't care because he played for the Warriors. But when he is playing with a fire it's raw. One of the few players with a heart of gold. But hes not a Superstar in the NBA. So he will never get treated like one. [B]He isn't in that elite club of people who get breathed on and take free throws.[/B][/QUOTE]

I don't know what to say to that......................

Did this dude seriously just say J-Rich is better than Kobe? :oldlol:

[QUOTE=Heavincent]Did this dude seriously just say J-Rich is better than Kobe? :oldlol:[/QUOTE]
I might have. But my main point is that Kobe is replaceable. J-Rich would average 30 ppg on 45% if you gave him 10,000 free throws. A lot of guards in the NBA would eat good if they got to the line that much in their career. I mean Kobe had a year with 819 free throws 819!!! Players like Wade and Kobe are always going to get calls that J-Rich will never dream of. J-Rich gets defended hard and refs look the other way. He is a nobody.

[QUOTE=HorryIsMyMVP]I might have. But my main point is that [B]Kobe is replaceable[/B]. J-Rich would average 30 ppg on 45% if you gave him 10,000 free throws. A lot of guards in the NBA would eat good if they got to the line that much in their career. I mean Kobe had a year with 819 free throws 819!!! Players like Wade and Kobe are always going to get calls that J-Rich will never dream of. J-Rich gets defended hard and refs look the other way. He is a nobody.[/QUOTE]

:rolleyes:

[QUOTE=riseagainst]:rolleyes:[/QUOTE]
If you give a guy that many free throws I'll show you a guy who can average 30 a game and miss 3/4 of his clutch shots.

^ this guy is proving the OP's point.

[QUOTE=HorryIsMyMVP]If you give a guy that many free throws I'll show you a guy who can average 30 a game and miss 3/4 of his clutch shots.[/QUOTE]

kobe avgs 7.6 FTs a game, a whooping 4.3 more attempts than J Rich.
a 70% FT shooter shooting 4.3 FTs will get 3 points from it.

So that makes J Rich's career ppg 17.5+3 = 20.5 ppg. Still doesn't come close to 25.4 ppg.

[QUOTE=Heavincent]^ this guy is proving the OP's point.[/QUOTE]
But I'm right. If Jason Richardson had a season with 819 free throws he would average close to what Kobe does. It is a simple formula. You just multiply what ever Jason Richardson's made free throws is and times it by 2. That is sort of bare minimum. like 05-06 he would have averaged 27 a game. If he took 820 free throws and only made 552. Also being a superstar just makes it easier to score. There is a whole other list of benefits that come with it. like defenders being afraid to guard you because they will foul out.

[QUOTE=HorryIsMyMVP]But I'm right. If Jason Richardson had a season with 819 free throws he would average close to what Kobe does. It is a simple formula. You just multiply what ever Jason Richardson's made free throws is and times it by 2. That is sort of bare minimum. like 05-06 he would have averaged 27 a game. If he took 820 free throws and only made 552.[/QUOTE]

kobe avgs 7.6 FTs a game, a whooping 4.3 more attempts than J Rich.
a 70% FT shooter shooting 4.3 FTs will get 3 points from it.

So that makes J Rich's career ppg 17.5+3 = 20.5 ppg. Still doesn't come close to 25.4 ppg.

[QUOTE=riseagainst]kobe avgs 7.6 FTs a game, a whooping 4.3 more attempts than J Rich.
a 70% FT shooter shooting 4.3 FTs will get 3 points from it.

So that makes J Rich's career ppg 17.5+3 = 20.5 ppg. Still doesn't come close to 25.4 ppg.[/QUOTE]
It's pretty close. I mean if J-Rich was also a superstar on LA he would be entitled to take more shots to. That is the argument right? If JRich was a ball hog super star getting free throws all the time. He could probably average 25 for a career. He would just have to take 2,200 shots a game to do it.

[QUOTE=HorryIsMyMVP]It's pretty close. I mean if J-Rich was also a superstar on LA he would be entitled to take more shots to. That is the argument right? If JRich was a ball hog super star getting free throws all the time. He could probably average 25 for a career. He would just have to take 2,200 shots a game to do it.[/QUOTE]

:facepalm
so would every other 44%+ shooter by your logic... I guess all shooters with the same fg% are the same if they were 1st option on a team by your logic...

[QUOTE=riseagainst]:facepalm
so would every other 44%+ shooter by your logic... I guess all shooters with the same fg% are the same if they were 1st option on a team by your logic...[/QUOTE]
Yes. But I don't see why you think Kobe is special. Because he was the chosen one the prodigy? The one the NBA wanted to mirror Jordan to revitalize the NBA? The guy the NBA created? He is just an average player but he plays for the Lakers and is a superstar.

[QUOTE=HorryIsMyMVP]Yes. But I don't see why you think Kobe is special. Because he was the chosen one the prodigy? The one the NBA wanted to mirror Jordan to revitalize the NBA? The guy the NBA created? He is just an average player but he plays for the Lakers and is a superstar.[/QUOTE]

Are you really this stupid?

[QUOTE=HorryIsMyMVP]Yes. But I don't see why you think Kobe is special. Because he was the chosen one the prodigy? The one the NBA wanted to mirror Jordan to revitalize the NBA? The guy the NBA created? He is just an average player but he plays for the Lakers and is a superstar.[/QUOTE]

Chosen one? Doesn't LeBron have that tattooed on his back?
So you must give Harold Minor, Grant Hill, Penny Hardaway, Vince Carter, T-Mac sh*t as well right? Because they all have been compared at one time or been labeled the next Jordan.

The NBA and media went as far as calling Harold Minor Baby Jordan for a while.

Calling Kobe an average player is like calling you a great poster and contributor to ISH. Now sit down son.

[QUOTE=Heavincent]Are you really this stupid?[/QUOTE]
I guess so because I really believe the NBA sets up these story lines and they know who they want to be successful.

[QUOTE=HorryIsMyMVP]I guess so because I really believe the NBA sets up these story lines and they know who they want to be successful.[/QUOTE]

See my post above...

Did all those players play for LA? Did they all win titles and have great careers?

[QUOTE=crisoner]See my post above...

Did all those players play for LA? Did they all win titles and have great careers?[/QUOTE]
I don't recall any of them playing for LA at any point in their careers. LA's market and basketball heritage is why a superstar will thrive on the team. LA will always be a relevant force in the NBA. Because the NBA wants it to be.

[QUOTE=HorryIsMyMVP]I don't recall any of them playing for LA at any point in their careers. LA's market and basketball heritage is why a superstar will thrive on the team. LA will always be a relevant force in the NBA. Because the NBA wants it to be.[/QUOTE]

you aren't getting the point...

[QUOTE=HorryIsMyMVP]I don't recall any of them playing for LA at any point in their careers. LA's market and basketball heritage is why a superstar will thrive on the team. LA will always be a relevant force in the NBA. Because the NBA wants it to be.[/QUOTE]


Really did Van Axel, Eddie Jones, Vlade Divac, or Cedric Ceballos get that treatment in LA from the NBA?

[QUOTE=riseagainst]you aren't getting the point...[/QUOTE]
What is the point? Vince Carter sucks because he was on the Nets? the ****ing Nets? You really think he wouldn't be thought of differently had he been a Laker? If Grant Hill hadn't of gotten hurt he would've been a sick Laker. There is no point here. Most of those guys in their prime would win titles on LA if given that role.

[QUOTE=crisoner]Really did Van Axel, Eddie Jones, Vlade Divac, or Cedric Ceballos get that treatment in LA from the NBA?[/QUOTE]
No but they weren't chosen ones. Like that list you pointed out. Kobe was a chosen one. And while Vince Carter was a chosen one he played for the Nets. his success for the Nets wouldn't be that great for the NBA. Kobe is a chosen one of the elite. And he got drafted straight to LA. One of the biggest money markets in the NBA and rich with cultural heritage. And story lines. Wtf did the Nets have going for them?

:roll: :roll: :roll: this is an epic thread. It should be stickied and deserves 5 stars. This shit is so sad but true and they expect people to take their basketball opinions seriously.

You guys don't think Kobe might be a bit lucky? He has been on arguably the greatest NBA franchise his whole career, landed right onto Shaq's back who was one of the most dominant forces this league has ever seen. He had the greatest coach in the NBA history, then soon after Shaq leaves he is spoon fed Pau Gasol, one of the best bigs in the NBA, along with a prime Lamar Odom and loads of solid role players. Then he is gifted Dwight Howard and Steve Nash. It's a bit different than the situations of Lebron's career. Thats all I'm gonna say,

[QUOTE=LikeABosh]You guys don't think Kobe might be a bit lucky? He has been on arguably the greatest NBA franchise his whole career, landed right onto Shaq's back who was one of the most dominant forces this league has ever seen. He had the greatest coach in the NBA history, then soon after Shaq leaves he is spoon fed Pau Gasol, one of the best bigs in the NBA, along with a prime Lamar Odom and loads of solid role players. Then he is gifted Dwight Howard and Steve Nash. It's a bit different than the situations of Lebron's career. Thats all I'm gonna say,[/QUOTE]

Why the f*ck are you bringing up Lebron, dang what does he have to do with this thread at all? YALL are the main ones always wanting to start a kobe/lebron fan war. Sad yall are threatened by a dude 34 years old, out of his prime. Sorry Kobe didn't play in a weak ass eastern conference where you only gotta play 1 50+ win team to get to the finals. Kobe never played any .500 teams to get in the playoffs.

Shaq was so dominant right? Then why didn't his dominant a$$ win something until Kobe became a full starter in the NBA?

Pau Gasol-no playoff wins till teamed up with kobe. have a seat.

Lamar Odom- Inconsistent, but he was a great big man.

Solid role players? Have another seat.

Dwight and Nash wanted to come play with KOBE. They both called Kobe and wanted to play with HIM. The fact that the Lakers organization feels they can still build a team around a 34 year old who's out of his prime says something doesn't it?

In 01, Kobe averaged 29/7/6 on .469% shooting in the playoffs. This past year Lebron averaged 30/9/5 on .500% shooting in the playoffs. Clearly not that far apart at all, yet Kobe was carried b/c he didn't win the FMVP. Not saying Kobe's playoff run was BETTER, just showing how hypocritical you're being.

But I know damn well, you don't consider Magic to be carried to 2 of his rings since he didn't win FMVP do ya? You don't consider Kareem to be carried to 4 of his rings? You don't consider Shaq and Duncan to be carried to their last rings do you?

Is Kobe lucky? Maybe, but not anymore than any other all time great. They've ALL had great players around them at some point in time and that's a fact. Only Kobe gets criticized for it. And yall wonder why his stans overrate him.
Sit down.

[QUOTE=swag2011]Why the f*ck are you bringing up Lebron, dang what does he have to do with this thread at all? YALL are the main ones always wanting to start a kobe/lebron fan war. Sad yall are threatened by a dude 34 years old, out of his prime. Sorry Kobe didn't play in a weak ass eastern conference where you only gotta play 1 50+ win team to get to the finals. Kobe never played any .500 teams to get in the playoffs.

Shaq was so dominant right? Then why didn't his dominant a$$ win something until Kobe became a full starter in the NBA?

Pau Gasol-no playoff wins till teamed up with kobe. have a seat.

Lamar Odom- Inconsistent, but he was a great big man.

Solid role players? Have another seat.

Dwight and Nash wanted to come play with KOBE. They both called Kobe and wanted to play with HIM. The fact that the Lakers organization feels they can still build a team around a 34 year old who's out of his prime says something doesn't it?

In 01, Kobe averaged 29/7/6 on .469% shooting in the playoffs. This past year Lebron averaged 30/9/5 on .500% shooting in the playoffs. Clearly not that far apart at all, yet Kobe was carried b/c he didn't win the FMVP. Not saying Kobe's playoff run was BETTER, just showing how hypocritical you're being.

But I know damn well, you don't consider Magic to be carried to 2 of his rings since he didn't win FMVP do ya? You don't consider Kareem to be carried to 4 of his rings? You don't consider Shaq and Duncan to be carried to their last rings do you?

Is Kobe lucky? Maybe, but not anymore than any other all time great. They've ALL had great players around them at some point in time and that's a fact. Only Kobe gets criticized for it. And yall wonder why his stans overrate him.
Sit down.[/QUOTE]

Bravo sir, bravo!:applause:

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

True he's an overrated chucker that wouldn't even make the playoffs without being carried by his all star teammates. I mean Kobe was lucky to ride the coattails of hall of famers like Pau Gasol, Lamar Odom, Trevor Ariza and Andrew Bynum.

:lol

Am I doing it right?

[QUOTE=swag2011]Why the f*ck are you bringing up Lebron, dang what does he have to do with this thread at all? YALL are the main ones always wanting to start a kobe/lebron fan war. Sad yall are threatened by a dude 34 years old, out of his prime. Sorry Kobe didn't play in a weak ass eastern conference where you only gotta play 1 50+ win team to get to the finals. Kobe never played any .500 teams to get in the playoffs.

Shaq was so dominant right? Then why didn't his dominant a$$ win something until Kobe became a full starter in the NBA?

Pau Gasol-no playoff wins till teamed up with kobe. have a seat.

Lamar Odom- Inconsistent, but he was a great big man.

Solid role players? Have another seat.

Dwight and Nash wanted to come play with KOBE. They both called Kobe and wanted to play with HIM. The fact that the Lakers organization feels they can still build a team around a 34 year old who's out of his prime says something doesn't it?

In 01, Kobe averaged 29/7/6 on .469% shooting in the playoffs. This past year Lebron averaged 30/9/5 on .500% shooting in the playoffs. Clearly not that far apart at all, yet Kobe was carried b/c he didn't win the FMVP. Not saying Kobe's playoff run was BETTER, just showing how hypocritical you're being.

But I know damn well, you don't consider Magic to be carried to 2 of his rings since he didn't win FMVP do ya? You don't consider Kareem to be carried to 4 of his rings? You don't consider Shaq and Duncan to be carried to their last rings do you?

Is Kobe lucky? Maybe, but not anymore than any other all time great. They've ALL had great players around them at some point in time and that's a fact. Only Kobe gets criticized for it. And yall wonder why his stans overrate him.
Sit down.[/QUOTE]
I was just making a comment. I don't want to start a Lebron vs, Kobe thing. I'm just saying that their situations aren't even comparable so it is stupid to compare them as players solely on the ring argument.

[QUOTE=longtime lurker]^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

True he's an overrated chucker that wouldn't even make the playoffs without being carried by his all star teammates. I mean Kobe was lucky to ride the coattails of hall of famers like Pau Gasol, Lamar Odom, Trevor Ariza and Andrew Bynum.

:lol

Am I doing it right?[/QUOTE]

so true Kobrick is an inefficient chucker who gets carried by everyone. Everyone on Kobe's team are HOFers, but Kobe's not because he's overrated and just lucky to ride their coattails. This dude wouldn't even survive in D-league as a 1st option on a team.
:lol

[QUOTE=swag2011]Why the f*ck are you bringing up Lebron, dang what does he have to do with this thread at all? YALL are the main ones always wanting to start a kobe/lebron fan war. Sad yall are threatened by a dude 34 years old, out of his prime. Sorry Kobe didn't play in a weak ass eastern conference where you only gotta play 1 50+ win team to get to the finals. Kobe never played any .500 teams to get in the playoffs.

Shaq was so dominant right? Then why didn't his dominant a$$ win something until Kobe became a full starter in the NBA?

Pau Gasol-no playoff wins till teamed up with kobe. have a seat.

Lamar Odom- Inconsistent, but he was a great big man.

Solid role players? Have another seat.

Dwight and Nash wanted to come play with KOBE. They both called Kobe and wanted to play with HIM. The fact that the Lakers organization feels they can still build a team around a 34 year old who's out of his prime says something doesn't it?

In 01, Kobe averaged 29/7/6 on .469% shooting in the playoffs. This past year Lebron averaged 30/9/5 on .500% shooting in the playoffs. Clearly not that far apart at all, yet Kobe was carried b/c he didn't win the FMVP. Not saying Kobe's playoff run was BETTER, just showing how hypocritical you're being.

But I know damn well, you don't consider Magic to be carried to 2 of his rings since he didn't win FMVP do ya? You don't consider Kareem to be carried to 4 of his rings? You don't consider Shaq and Duncan to be carried to their last rings do you?

Is Kobe lucky? Maybe, but not anymore than any other all time great. They've ALL had great players around them at some point in time and that's a fact. Only Kobe gets criticized for it. And yall wonder why his stans overrate him.
Sit down.[/QUOTE]


Dayummmmm

[QUOTE=LikeABosh]You guys don't think Kobe might be a bit lucky? He has been on arguably the greatest NBA franchise his whole career, landed right onto Shaq's back who was one of the most dominant forces this league has ever seen. He had the greatest coach in the NBA history, then soon after Shaq leaves he is spoon fed Pau Gasol, one of the best bigs in the NBA, along with a prime Lamar Odom and loads of solid role players. Then he is gifted Dwight Howard and Steve Nash. It's a bit different than the situations of Lebron's career. Thats all I'm gonna say,[/QUOTE]

Kobe isn't really any more lucky than any of the other all time top 10 players. Jordan, Magic, Bird, Russell, Shaq, and Kareem were all just as lucky as Kobe.

[QUOTE=riseagainst]so true Kobrick is an inefficient chucker who gets carried by everyone. Everyone on Kobe's team are HOFers, but Kobe's not because he's overrated and just lucky to ride their coattails. This dude wouldn't even survive in D-league as a 1st option on a team.
:lol[/QUOTE]

I agree I don't even know how this guy made it to the NBA. He's obviously been blessed with the GOAT supporting casts to mask his horrible decision making, low basketball IQ and average athleticism. Kobe Bryant the most overrated chucker, ball hog in the NBA. He's not even top 1000 in my books.

[QUOTE=swag2011]Why the f*ck are you bringing up Lebron, dang what does he have to do with this thread at all? YALL are the main ones always wanting to start a kobe/lebron fan war. Sad yall are threatened by a dude 34 years old, out of his prime. Sorry Kobe didn't play in a weak ass eastern conference where you only gotta play 1 50+ win team to get to the finals. Kobe never played any .500 teams to get in the playoffs.

Shaq was so dominant right? Then why didn't his dominant a$$ win something until Kobe became a full starter in the NBA?

Pau Gasol-no playoff wins till teamed up with kobe. have a seat.

Lamar Odom- Inconsistent, but he was a great big man.

Solid role players? Have another seat.

Dwight and Nash wanted to come play with KOBE. They both called Kobe and wanted to play with HIM. The fact that the Lakers organization feels they can still build a team around a 34 year old who's out of his prime says something doesn't it?

In 01, Kobe averaged 29/7/6 on .469% shooting in the playoffs. This past year Lebron averaged 30/9/5 on .500% shooting in the playoffs. Clearly not that far apart at all, yet Kobe was carried b/c he didn't win the FMVP. Not saying Kobe's playoff run was BETTER, just showing how hypocritical you're being.

But I know damn well, you don't consider Magic to be carried to 2 of his rings since he didn't win FMVP do ya? You don't consider Kareem to be carried to 4 of his rings? You don't consider Shaq and Duncan to be carried to their last rings do you?

Is Kobe lucky? Maybe, but not anymore than any other all time great. They've ALL had great players around them at some point in time and that's a fact. Only Kobe gets criticized for it. And yall wonder why his stans overrate him.
Sit down.[/QUOTE]

This stan is :mad:

[QUOTE=HorryIsMyMVP]I might have. But my main point is that[B] Kobe is replaceable. [/B]J-Rich would average 30 ppg on 45% if you gave him 10,000 free throws. A lot of guards in the NBA would eat good if they got to the line that much in their career. I mean Kobe had a year with 819 free throws 819!!! Players like Wade and Kobe are always going to get calls that J-Rich will never dream of. J-Rich gets defended hard and refs look the other way. He is a nobody.[/QUOTE]
GTFO with that BS.

[QUOTE=swag2011]Shaq was so dominant right? Then why didn't his dominant a$$ win something until Kobe became a full starter in the NBA?[/QUOTE]

This...this statement right here. Why do Kobe stans latch onto it like it actually proves something? Why? They put nothing into context, blatantly ignore every single circumstance Shaq was in from his rookie season through the 1998-1999 season, and think that him not winning a championship until Kobe became a starter and/or emerged proves something about Kobe's greatness.

I can live with all the other stuff but, this argument or whatever, no, just....no.

[QUOTE=swag2011]Why the f*ck are you bringing up Lebron, dang what does he have to do with this thread at all? YALL are the main ones always wanting to start a kobe/lebron fan war. Sad yall are threatened by a dude 34 years old, out of his prime. Sorry Kobe didn't play in a weak ass eastern conference where you only gotta play 1 50+ win team to get to the finals. Kobe never played any .500 teams to get in the playoffs.

Shaq was so dominant right? Then why didn't his dominant a$$ win something until Kobe became a full starter in the NBA?

Pau Gasol-no playoff wins till teamed up with kobe. have a seat.

Lamar Odom- Inconsistent, but he was a great big man.

Solid role players? Have another seat.

Dwight and Nash wanted to come play with KOBE. They both called Kobe and wanted to play with HIM. The fact that the Lakers organization feels they can still build a team around a 34 year old who's out of his prime says something doesn't it?

In 01, Kobe averaged 29/7/6 on .469% shooting in the playoffs. This past year Lebron averaged 30/9/5 on .500% shooting in the playoffs. Clearly not that far apart at all, yet Kobe was carried b/c he didn't win the FMVP. Not saying Kobe's playoff run was BETTER, just showing how hypocritical you're being.

But I know damn well, you don't consider Magic to be carried to 2 of his rings since he didn't win FMVP do ya? You don't consider Kareem to be carried to 4 of his rings? You don't consider Shaq and Duncan to be carried to their last rings do you?

Is Kobe lucky? Maybe, but not anymore than any other all time great. They've ALL had great players around them at some point in time and that's a fact. Only Kobe gets criticized for it. And yall wonder why his stans overrate him.
Sit down.[/QUOTE]

Talk about "layin' the smackdown":lol

[QUOTE=swag2011]Why the f*ck are you bringing up Lebron, dang what does he have to do with this thread at all? YALL are the main ones always wanting to start a kobe/lebron fan war. Sad yall are threatened by a dude 34 years old, out of his prime. Sorry Kobe didn't play in a weak ass eastern conference where you only gotta play 1 50+ win team to get to the finals. Kobe never played any .500 teams to get in the playoffs.

Shaq was so dominant right? Then why didn't his dominant a$$ win something until Kobe became a full starter in the NBA?

Pau Gasol-no playoff wins till teamed up with kobe. have a seat.

Lamar Odom- Inconsistent, but he was a great big man.

Solid role players? Have another seat.

Dwight and Nash wanted to come play with KOBE. They both called Kobe and wanted to play with HIM. The fact that the Lakers organization feels they can still build a team around a 34 year old who's out of his prime says something doesn't it?

In 01, Kobe averaged 29/7/6 on .469% shooting in the playoffs. This past year Lebron averaged 30/9/5 on .500% shooting in the playoffs. Clearly not that far apart at all, yet Kobe was carried b/c he didn't win the FMVP. Not saying Kobe's playoff run was BETTER, just showing how hypocritical you're being.

But I know damn well, you don't consider Magic to be carried to 2 of his rings since he didn't win FMVP do ya? You don't consider Kareem to be carried to 4 of his rings? You don't consider Shaq and Duncan to be carried to their last rings do you?

Is Kobe lucky? Maybe, but not anymore than any other all time great. They've ALL had great players around them at some point in time and that's a fact. Only Kobe gets criticized for it. And yall wonder why his stans overrate him.
Sit down.[/QUOTE]
SHIIIIIZZZZ