#13 NBA Player Of All-Time According to InsideHoops

[QUOTE=StateOfMind12]Care to explain your reasoning for why you think this?[/QUOTE]

Sure.

We all know Dr. J for all his good traits - the unbelievable athleticism, his ability to put on a show, his overall very good stats....

But, he was a very limited player skill wise. People want to bash on LeBron for his lack of being refined, look at Dr. J. He couldn't shoot at all, was a solid defender at best (not saying he was bad), and couldn't lead the Sixers to a title as "the man".

I don't want to knock Erving too much for these things. BUT, people want to discredit guys like LeBron for these types of things all the time - is it not fair to also discredit Dr. J when comparatively speaking he was/is worse than LeBron in these aspects.

I'm not saying this to prop up LeBron btw, just using him as an example.

[QUOTE=AlonzoGOAT]It took wilt 2 to get to 6. And kobe 2 as the the guy to get to 8 :confusedshrug:[/QUOTE]

I think Wilt Chamberlain having his name alongside just about every record got him to 6.

[QUOTE=Snoop_Cat]Sure.

We all know Dr. J for all his good traits - the unbelievable athleticism, his ability to put on a show, his overall very good stats....

But, he was a very limited player skill wise. People want to bash on LeBron for his lack of being refined, look at Dr. J. He couldn't shoot at all, was a solid defender at best (not saying he was bad), and couldn't lead the Sixers to a title as "the man".

I don't want to knock Erving too much for these things. BUT, people want to discredit guys like LeBron for these types of things all the time - is it not fair to also discredit Dr. J when comparatively speaking he was/is worse than LeBron in these aspects.

I'm not saying this to prop up LeBron btw, just using him as an example.[/QUOTE]

Dr.J was not limited skillwise :no:
You don't score 25+ points with 50% FG on limited skills.
He could get to the basket anytime he wanted, was creative in the air, and had a decent mid-pullup. He was feared on the streets for his versatile skillset. Dr.J was far from limited.

[QUOTE]But, he was a very limited player skill wise. People want to bash on LeBron for his lack of being refined, look at Dr. J. He couldn't shoot at all, was a solid defender at best (not saying he was bad), and couldn't lead the Sixers to a title as "the man".
[/QUOTE]


You can watch him in the ABA wetting 25 footers and nobody is shocked. He had a good midrange turnaround and a pullup jumper when I watched him and he was way past his prime then. All the footage I see of young Doc hes nailing pullup jumpers on the break....just stopping on a dime and raising up like Westbrook seems to do 8 times a game.

And being a solid defender at best(which I dont believe is true...) doesnt mean you have no defensive skill. It means you are about average. And with his athletic ability he made plays many couldnt. And im talking mini fro Doc.

And not leading the sixers to a title as "the man" isnt a skill. Its running into the Celtics and Lakers over and over. It was considered an upset when they lost in 77 but you cant put that on Doc.

He went hard as hell in the couple games ive seen that series. Game 6 he was doing it all. Just...amazing. Coast to coast, floaters, pullup jumpers, sick hesitations and spin moves into the paint. Hard to fault him for Walton going all Big Fundamental.

An awful lot of people in the 70s and the 80s had Doc as the best player ever. And I remember him being called the GOAT forward all the time. And it wasnt just him being exciting. Nobody said that of Nique or David Thompson.

Doc really had "Might be the best in the world" status from the mid 70s till the early 80s. I think hes a bit disrespected these days because he didnt do the numbers he could have had he been more selfish.

[QUOTE=Kblaze8855]You can watch him in the ABA wetting 25 footers and nobody is shocked. He had a good midrange turnaround and a pullup jumper when I watched him and he was way past his prime then. All the footage I see of young Doc hes nailing pullup jumpers on the break....just stopping on a dime and raising up like Westbrook seems to do 8 times a game.

And being a solid defender at best(which I dont believe is true...) doesnt mean you have no defensive skill. It means you are about average. And with his athletic ability he made plays many couldnt. And im talking mini fro Doc.

And not leading the sixers to a title as "the man" isnt a skill. Its running into the Celtics and Lakers over and over. It was considered an upset when they lost in 77 but you cant put that on Doc.

He went hard as hell in the couple games ive seen that series. Game 6 he was doing it all. Just...amazing. Coast to coast, floaters, pullup jumpers, sick hesitations and spin moves into the paint. Hard to fault him for Walton going all Big Fundamental.

An awful lot of people in the 70s and the 80s had Doc as the best player ever. And I remember him being called the GOAT forward all the time. And it wasnt just him being exciting. Nobody said that of Nique or David Thompson.

Doc really had "Might be the best in the world" status from the mid 70s till the early 80s. I think hes a bit disrespected these days because he didnt do the numbers he could have had he been more selfish.[/QUOTE]

Pertaining to the jump shooting, I don't fully agree with this. I'm not saying he was a solely drive-in guy, but he wasn't a spectacular shooter by any means. If I recall correctly, there's even things himself saying he didn't work on shooting too much because he didn't have to.

As far as "winning isn't a skill". I didn't mean to equate it to being a skill so sorry for the misinterpretation. I meant it as in regards to an All-Time ranking - there are plenty of others who are discredited for it despite facing stacked teams and obstacles, why shouldn't Dr. J be knocked down for it?

That's the 70's/80's. Looking at the list of all-time best forwards, many of them are from the post- Doc era.

Don't get me wrong, I love Erving and have him as a top 15-18 player. I just don't agree with him being better on an all-time list than a handful of other players.

Lmao this should have been LeBrons spot if it weren't for the 2010 bandwagon jumpers. :roll:

anyway, I vote for Oscar. It was either him or West.

When I was growing up in the 70's the biggest two names were Kareem and Doctor J. Since Kareem is already voted in, it is time for Julius Erving to take his rightful place at #13.

[QUOTE=Rolando]When I was growing up in the 70's the biggest two names were Kareem and Doctor J. Since Kareem is already voted in, it is time for Julius Erving to take his rightful place at #13.[/QUOTE]

I'm not so sure...

if you include his ABA years, Doc is way up there in the top 10 (probably top 7)

this thread is NBA-only though (which I disagree with, but it's not my thread), so he'll probably come in at 15 or 16

Jerry West.

I have abstract knowledge that this spot probably belongs to either West, Oscar, or Dr. J. It's kind of a joke that I'm voting though because I've seen 10 games total of all these players *combined*. But probably only one person in 10 who will vote in this thread has seen any more than I have, so I'm voting anyway. *shrug*

[QUOTE=fpliii]I'm not so sure...

if you include his ABA years, Doc is way up there in the top 10 (probably top 7)

this thread is NBA-only though (which I disagree with, but it's not my thread), so he'll probably come in at 15 or 16[/QUOTE]

Crap, I didn't take note of the NBA only aspect of this......That doesn't help the doctor. I will let my vote stand though.

#13 NBA Player Of All-Time According to InsideHoops

23- Oscar Robertson
19- Jerry West
5- Julius Erving
3- Isiah Thomas
1- Elgin Baylor
1- George Mikan
1- Kevin Garnett
1- Charles Barkley

Big O

How is ISH gonna vote Oscar Robertson ahead of Jerry West if they voted Magic ahead of Bird?:no:

the Logo

George Mikan

[QUOTE=Deuce Bigalow]Current Results

23- Oscar Robertson
18- Jerry West
5- Julius Erving
2- Isiah Thomas
1- Elgin Baylor[/QUOTE]

Forgot to ask, when do you usually conclude the final results in these threads? Is it a "first player to *insert number* votes" or is there a time limit or something?

I'm surprised at how many people think Oscar deserves to get in over West.

[QUOTE=pauk]Forgot to ask, when do you usually conclude the final results in these threads? Is it a "first player to *insert number* votes" or is there a time limit or something?[/QUOTE]
If it's not close then we can move on, but if it's close I at least give a full day or until votes stop coming in.

Oscar.

[QUOTE]Pertaining to the jump shooting, I don't fully agree with this. I'm not saying he was a solely drive-in guy, but he wasn't a spectacular shooter by any means. [/QUOTE]

You said he couldnt shoot at all. There is a massive gulf between "Cant shoot at all" and merely not being a spectacular shooter.

I think the most accurate way to put it would be..Doc was a forward who attacked and played around the basket. But there is too much footage of him shooting to just say he flat out cant.

He didnt have good reason to do it. But when guys played off he showed he could hit a pullup jumper. Hes made game winning threes. The last shot of his career was an effortless three. He shot mostly in the upper 70s from the line up to 85%. He wasnt a....cant shoot. He was a didnt shoot. Hes a cant shoot compared to Bird. But compared to normal players from his day who grew up with no 3 point line?

He wasnt a deadly midrange shooter. But he scored an awful lot of points on bank shots and foul line pullup jumpers. Not sure what else is fair to expect. Why would a guy who was like 22 before he saw a 3 point line take 25 footers in practice?


[QUOTE]If I recall correctly, there's even things himself saying he didn't work on shooting too much because he didn't have to.[/QUOTE]


Which is true. He didnt. Doesnt mean he was an unusually poor shooter. You can watch videos on him in the ABA making plenty of jumpers. Look on youtube...Doctor J 1974. he was making contested jumpers early in his career and he got better as the years went on.


[QUOTE]As far as "winning isn't a skill". I didn't mean to equate it to being a skill so sorry for the misinterpretation. I meant it as in regards to an All-Time ranking - there are plenty of others who are discredited for it despite facing stacked teams and obstacles, why shouldn't Dr. J be knocked down for it?[/QUOTE]

He is. Its largely why he isnt considered as good as people thought he was at the time.

When Doc retired announcers were comparing him to Jesse Owens and Jim Brown types. Ive heard Bird call him the greatest forward of all time. Kareem as well I believe. Doctor J was as respected as it got. If he were not docked by time and lack of multiple NBA rings he would probably have most people calling him top 10.


[QUOTE] That's the 70's/80's. Looking at the list of all-time best forwards, many of them are from the post- Doc era. [/QUOTE]

Many of the greatest everythings are from the post Doc era. His prime ended 30 years ago.

[QUOTE] Don't get me wrong, I love Erving and have him as a top 15-18 player. I just don't agree with him being better on an all-time list than a handful of other players.[/QUOTE]

Which is perfectly fine. I just get annoyed at times with the extent people push things to make a guy look bad.

Couldnt shoot at all just doesnt seem fair to me.


[url]http://youtu.be/Elthg0v2MOk?t=7m10s[/url]


The jumpers there just make believe?

Im sure for the record I could find a bunch of footage of Rondo hitting jumpers. But it isnt a regular part of his game. Doctor J was making midrange jumpers on a regular basis and nobody was shocked to see it like they are with Rondo. Ive seen him make too many 15 foot bank shots to let "He cant shoot at all" go by unquestioned.

[QUOTE=Kblaze8855]
[url]http://youtu.be/Elthg0v2MOk?t=7m10s[/url]


The jumpers there just make believe?

Im sure for the record I could find a bunch of footage of Rondo hitting jumpers. But it isnt a regular part of his game. Doctor J was making midrange jumpers on a regular basis and nobody was shocked to see it like they are with Rondo. Ive seen him make too many 15 foot bank shots to let "He cant shoot at all" go by unquestioned.[/QUOTE]

Another awesome video, could spend the entire day just watching your videos. :)

On the money kblaze.

Here's a video that shows examples of a player far ahead of his time. Dribbling behind the back, speedy quick first step, spin moves like Hakeem, ability to control the ball in the air making it move where ever he wanted to and finishing, wetting jumpers with great form and at the height of his jump.....
again by no means limited

[URL="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DebtVv87jDc&feature=fvwrel"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DebtVv87jDc&feature=fvwrel[/URL]

[QUOTE=DaHeezy]On the money kblaze.

Here's a video that shows examples of a player far ahead of his time. Dribbling behind the back, speedy quick first step, spin moves like Hakeem, ability to control the ball in the air making it move where ever he wanted to and finishing, wetting jumpers with great form and at the height of his jump.....
again by no means limited

[URL="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DebtVv87jDc&feature=fvwrel"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DebtVv87jDc&feature=fvwrel[/URL][/QUOTE]

Even "Wades" euro-step windmill move was apparently first seen with Dr. J here (or at least i cant trace that move back any further than Dr. J):

[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=DebtVv87jDc#t=181s[/url]

My point is your point, he was ahead of his time.

Isiah

[QUOTE=pauk]Even "Wades" euro-step windmill move was apparently first seen with Dr. J here (or at least i cant trace that move back any further than Dr. J):

[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=DebtVv87jDc#t=181s[/url]

My point is your point, he was ahead of his time.[/QUOTE]

I didn't realize but the clip @ 4:30, I had a bet with my friend about 10 years ago that Dr.J jumped so high he hit his head on the backboard in a dunk contest. there's the proof

Kevin Garnett

[B]Barkley...Broken Down Stats Say He is Actually Top 10 but Ok Not Bad Top 13[/B]

lebron top 11 after being a career loser n winning after only teaming up:coleman:

[QUOTE=ripthekik]lebron top 11 after being a career loser n winning after only teaming up:coleman:[/QUOTE]
Lebron is one of the most talented players in the history of the game. Even his biggest hater Skip Bayless says that. Even Bird, Magic, Big O, Pippen etc etc. And you question why he's at nr 11?

Give me Julius, but it was hard to pick between him and Zeke.

[QUOTE=ImmortalD24]Kevin Garnett[/QUOTE]

KG is going to be one of those players when he retires that people give demi-god status. Amazing how overrated he gets.