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[QUOTE=ChuckOakley]Ok ok, you're right we suck
41 win avi bet?
Over I win, under you win.[/QUOTE]
Naw Nets don't suck they just need to prove something with this core and have a year of experience together before the expectations go too high. You guys didn't acquire Chris Paul, you acquired Joe Johnson.
[QUOTE=niko]Haha, no....its was aimed at you but not really aimed at you, i hear from the Net fans on this board a lot that LOPEZ IS BACK! like it's a given. He might very well be fine all year but i think people ignore that he really might not.[/QUOTE]
I'm not optimistic at all.. much more of a pessimistic/realist than most fans.. you should know this about me by now.
Fine we can do 41 wins. So 41 or less and I win?
[QUOTE=Clippersfan86]Naw Nets don't suck they just need to prove something with this core and have a year of experience together before the expectations go too high. You guys didn't acquire Chris Paul, you acquired Joe Johnson.[/QUOTE]
Yup, I agree. All we added was JJ and I'm delusional for thinking they can win more than 45 games... in fact .500 should be our goal like you said.
So meet in the middle.. 41 games..1 month AVI bet with Niko the witness.
In?
[QUOTE=Clippersfan86]Fine we can do 41 wins. So 41 or less and I win?[/QUOTE]
I think 41 should be a wash like Niko said.
1 month as soon as the regular season ends.
[QUOTE=ChuckOakley]I think 41 should be a wash like Niko said.
1 month as soon as the regular season ends.[/QUOTE]
I don't get it. So they have to win 40 games or less for me to win? I personally think they will win 41-42 so why would I take that bet? I said 40 is a more realistic goal, doesn't mean it's my personal prediction. I think 40-42 is where they will finish.
[QUOTE=Clippersfan86]I don't get it. So they have to win 40 games or less for me to win? I personally think they will win 41-42 so why would I take that bet? I said 40 is a more realistic goal, doesn't mean it's my personal prediction. I think 40-42 is where they will finish.[/QUOTE]
If 42 is your [B]max,[/B] it means you don't think they will probably reach it.. so why should I bet it?
You said 40 should be their goal.. why would their goal be something others expect them to get? Shouldn't their goal be higher and to exceed expecations? It sounds like you thought 40 would be a good season exceeding expectations.. thus it is a goal in your eyes.
[QUOTE=ChuckOakley]If 42 is your [B]max,[/B] it means you don't think they will probably reach it.. so why should I bet it?
You said 40 should be their goal.. why would their goal be something others expect them to get? Shouldn't their goal be higher and to exceed expecations? It sounds like you thought 40 would be a good season exceeding expectations.. thus it is a goal in your eyes.[/QUOTE]
cough [COLOR="White"](he's scared) [/COLOR]cough....
If the Nets win 40-42 games (about) I'm curious the fan reaction because the casual fan in Brooklyn is being painted a picture of a team that is much better than the Knicks, and plans to contend. That they are REALLY good. The truth is more to me they are trying to build a contender, but most importantly building a culture that will allow them to build consistent good teams. But the thing being sold is not that, it's YOU HAVEN'T HAD A GOOD TEAM ON THE OTHER SIDE OF THE RIVER - DON'T WORRY! THE NETS ARE HERE!
[QUOTE=ChuckOakley]If 42 is your [B]max,[/B] it means you don't think they will probably reach it.. so why should I bet it?
You said 40 should be their goal.. why would their goal be something others expect them to get? Shouldn't their goal be higher and to exceed expecations? It sounds like you thought 40 would be a good season exceeding expectations.. thus it is a goal in your eyes.[/QUOTE]
Yea not the teams goal, the fans realistic expectation before knowing anything about the teams chemistry and how quickly they gel. 40-42 range which is a big difference from the 45-50 or w/e you said.
[QUOTE=Clippersfan86]Yea not the teams goal, the fans realistic expectation before knowing anything about the teams chemistry and how quickly they gel. 40-42 range which is a big difference from the 45-50 or w/e you said.[/QUOTE]
Fair enough....
41 and under, you win
42 and higher, I win.
1 month Avy right after the regular season ends.
Deal?
[QUOTE=ChuckOakley]Fair enough....
41 and under, you win
42 and higher, I win.
1 month Avy right after the regular season ends.
Deal?[/QUOTE]
May god have mercy on your souls...
[QUOTE=ChuckOakley]Fair enough....
41 and under, you win
42 and higher, I win.
1 month Avy right after the regular season ends.
Deal?[/QUOTE]
Deal.
[QUOTE=Clippersfan86]Deal.[/QUOTE]
BTW... how many wins do you expect for the Clips?
You said second round or better.
I'm assuming you think 3rd seed and 54 wins roughly.
[QUOTE=niko]May god have mercy on your souls...[/QUOTE]
You want in?
How many W's do you predict?
[QUOTE=ChuckOakley]BTW... how many wins do you expect for the Clips?
You said second round or better.
I'm assuming you think 3rd seed and 54 wins roughly.[/QUOTE]
Hmm... 3 seed at best, probably 4th though. I think 50-52 wins probably. Lakers will get around 60 as will Thunder.
Chuck I'm curious what picture you're gonna pick when you win the bet.
[COLOR="White"]Just messing[/COLOR]
[QUOTE=Clippersfan86]Hmm... 3 seed at best, probably 4th though. I think 50-52 wins probably. Lakers will get around 60 as will Thunder.[/QUOTE]
Ok, I think your Clipper projections are perfectly reasonable. And I understand why you think what you do about the Nets... they have a lot to prove, but I think you will be surprised, even if mildly so.
Clips are better right now because they have the proven chemistry, but the Nets are a far more talented team.
The Nets have a lot of the same names from last year but its the timing that changes everything.
We didnt have Gerald Wallace to start.. we had joey graham and that Damien James guy(? I think thats his name.. they both suck)
We had Anthony 'cant dribble' morrow to start..
We had johan Petro and Shelden Williams at the C..
All of those offensively pathetic positions were replaced with legit offensive firepower in the form of Joe johnson, Brook Lopez, and Gerald Wallace.
And most of all, they are all healthy and ready to go from the start where as the Nets had nothing to play for all last year because of their terrible beginning to the season. By the time Wallace and Brook started balling again we were out and Deron was seriously looking disinterested and like he was gonna leave us.
The mentality and timing coming into this year is actually more important than any one player that was picked up.
[QUOTE=MTing]Chuck I'm curious what picture you're gonna pick when you win the bet.
[COLOR="White"]Just messing[/COLOR][/QUOTE]
I got plenty of time to figure it out
:pimp:
(waits for the Nets to be decimated by injuries for the 2nd year in a row where they lost the most games to injury, had the most staring line-ups, most players lost to season ending injuries, had the most d-league call-ups.. and looks like a fool)
[QUOTE=tpols]Clips are better right now because they have the proven chemistry, but the Nets are a far more talented team.
The Nets have a lot of the same names from last year but its the timing that changes everything.
We didnt have Gerald Wallace to start.. we had joey graham and that Damien James guy(? I think thats his name.. they both suck)
We had Anthony 'cant dribble' morrow to start..
We had johan Petro and Shelden Williams at the C..
All of those offensively pathetic positions were replaced with legit offensive firepower in the form of Joe johnson, Brook Lopez, and Gerald Wallace.
And most of all, they are all healthy and ready to go from the start where as the Nets had nothing to play for all last year because of their terrible beginning to the season. By the time Wallace and Brook started balling again we were out and Deron was seriously looking disinterested and like he was gonna leave us.
The mentality and timing coming into this year is actually more important than any one player that was picked up.[/QUOTE]
We are far from being more talented than the Clippers.
CP3 is the best PG in the league and Griffin is much better than any big man we have. Add to those two near perfect role players like JC, G.Hill and Odom off the bench and Billups, Butler and Jordan in the starting line-up and you see why that is the case.
Clippers have two things going against them.. they play in the uber-competitive West which is not only deep as hell, but has OKC and LAL. The other thing they have to worry about is the age/fragility of many of their players. But healthy, this team is top 6... behind LAL and Miami... maybe behind Boston and OKC and on par with SAS.
[QUOTE=ChuckOakley]Ok, I think your Clipper projections are perfectly reasonable. And I understand why you think what you do about the Nets... they have a lot to prove, but I think you will be surprised, even if mildly so.[/QUOTE]
:cheers: as I said I actually love the core they have put together. If Lopez becomes a more aggressive rebounder and defender, Humphries works on his defense and JJ buys right in by next year (2013-2014) they can absolutely be a top 3 seed in east. I just think it will take a year of mistakes/rough patches to sort it out.
[QUOTE=Clippersfan86]:cheers: as I said I actually love the core they have put together. If Lopez becomes a more aggressive rebounder and defender, Humphries works on his defense and JJ buys right in by next year they can absolutely be a top 3 seed in east. I just think it will take a year of mistakes/rough patches to sort it out.[/QUOTE]
I don't think it will take long. They all assembled first thing and every single player other than Brooks, JJ and Taylor chose to be there as they were all free agents.
Other thing to note, this team is all about the now in Brooklyn. They have Humphries' massive 2 year contract as well as all future first rounders and 2 Euro-stash players that they will move during the season if they can for an upgrade even if it means taking on more salary.
From reports in training camp Blatche has been in best mode and he is a major risk vs. reward player for us.. where even if Lopez goes down (my main worry right now), I'm glad he's there to place a band-aid over the hole at Center.
Is this team a contender?
No. But for year 1 in Brooklyn I think they are off to a great start.
42+ wins seems likes a sure thing to me.
Clippers easily. The Nets are the 4th best team in the Atlantic division.
Nets might end up with a better record... but that's easy to do in the east.
Clippers are a better team top to bottom I think.
[QUOTE=Kevin_Garnett_5]Clippers easily. The Nets are the 4th best team in the Atlantic division.[/QUOTE]
Another person up for an Avatar bet?
How many wins do you give them?
Love this!
[QUOTE=ChuckOakley]He can't stop Hump apparently.
14.5/12.5 on 58% and Kris is 4-3 vs. Griffin on NJ.[/QUOTE]
BTW.. that should say Humphries and the Nets are [B]3-1[/B] against LAC the last two seasons.
My bad.
[QUOTE=ChuckOakley]Another person up for an Avatar bet?
How many wins do you give them?
Love this![/QUOTE]
I'll give them no more than 45 wins.
Clippers. Net's only look good on paper. If they could trade their front court for an elite or close to elite level power forward then they would have real promise.
They need a low post threat that can really put up numbers. I think Amare would do better in NJ than NY. He'd be a player I'd sign for about a half of what he is getting paid now. He needs a point guard like Deron Williams to get him easy looks. He can't excel next to a first class chucker like Carmelo Anthony.
[QUOTE=Kevin_Garnett_5]I'll give them no more than 45 wins.[/QUOTE]
Oh.. NVM that's kind of where I put them.
You think 45 wins is 4th in the Atlantic?
Personally, I'm not drinking the Philly Kool-aid at all. They improved their long term outlook tremendously but took a step back short term IMO when they lost their leading scorer and 6MOY candidate (L.Williams), leading rebounder (Brand), leading passer and best defensive player (Iggy), all solid vets, and replaced them with rather young, untested, albeit talented, players.
I like Bynum but it seems insane the love they are getting. Bynum has to stay healthy, prove he can handle double and triple team and the pressure of being the man. Even then... Bynum, Kobe and Gasol were only on pace for about 52 wins last season.. seems a stretch that Bynum, Turner and Holiday gets close to 50, IMO.
[QUOTE=RoseCity07]Clippers. Net's only look good on paper. If they could trade their front court for an elite or close to elite level power forward then they would have real promise.
They need a low post threat that can really put up numbers. I think Amare would do better in NJ than NY. He'd be a player I'd sign for about a half of what he is getting paid now. He needs a point guard like Deron Williams to get him easy looks. He can't excel next to a first class chucker like Carmelo Anthony.[/QUOTE]
I think Amare would look great in [B]NJ[/B] too... as in away from the team.
:D
But yeah.. who's to say they don't trade
Hump
Lopez
Brooks
Any of their future 1sts (they have all of them)
Any of their Euro-stash
Cash
Take back as much salary as possible
to land that upgrade up front?
I hope they target J.Smith, Milsap, Jefferson to name a few.
[QUOTE=ChuckOakley]I think Amare would look great in [B]NJ[/B] too... as in away from the team.
:D
But yeah.. who's to say they don't trade
Hump
Lopez
Brooks
Any of their future 1sts (they have all of them)
Any of their Euro-stash
Cash
Take back as much salary as possible
to land that upgrade up front?
I hope they target J.Smith, Milsap, Jefferson to name a few.[/QUOTE]
Lopez isn't a good tradable asset, he's a player with a possible dengenerative injury on a max deal in his first year of deal.
As far as Nets i think 42-46 is their range. Better only if someone takes a quantum leap (lopez, brooks, etc.) which i doubt, or worse if the team doesn't like Avery (which is why i don't like the Blatche pickup, Avery has enough new pieces to fit, including that dickwad in the mix doesn't help). Playoff mix though without a doubt.
I think though the common thought is the Nets are a lock playoff team, probable top 4 seed. Which i think is a stretch.
[QUOTE=ChuckOakley]I think Amare would look great in [B]NJ[/B] too... as in away from the team.
:D
But yeah.. who's to say they don't trade
Hump
Lopez
Brooks
Any of their future 1sts (they have all of them)
Any of their Euro-stash
Cash
Take back as much salary as possible
to land that upgrade up front?
I hope they target J.Smith, Milsap, Jefferson to name a few.[/QUOTE]
Yeah I'm not fan of Amare either. As a basketball player he has a losing mentality. He's not really a low post threat either. I'm just saying that NJ has enough defense there and the right point guard for that to work. He doesn't have to look out for Gerald Wallace getting his shots. He can run pick and roll all day with Deron Williams and slack off on defense like everyone knows he loves doing.
[QUOTE=niko]Lopez isn't a good tradable asset, he's a player with a possible dengenerative injury on a max deal in his first year of deal.
As far as Nets i think 42-46 is their range. Better only if someone takes a quantum leap (lopez, brooks, etc.) which i doubt, or worse if the team doesn't like Avery (which is why i don't like the Blatche pickup, Avery has enough new pieces to fit, including that dickwad in the mix doesn't help). Playoff mix though without a doubt.
I think though the common thought is the Nets are a lock playoff team, probable top 4 seed. Which i think is a stretch.[/QUOTE]
Where is this common thought of a probably top 4 seed?
A lock for the playoffs sure.
[QUOTE=RoseCity07]Yeah I'm not fan of Amare either. As a basketball player he has a losing mentality. He's not really a low post threat either. I'm just saying that NJ has enough defense there and the right point guard for that to work. He doesn't have to look out for Gerald Wallace getting his shots. He can run pick and roll all day with Deron Williams and slack off on defense like everyone knows he loves doing.[/QUOTE]
Oh no.. there is not enough defense.. esp not in NJ... nor in Brooklyn. That's our biggest concern (along with Brook's foot) by a mile. Amare is a worse defender than Hump or Lopez IMO.. not what we need.
[QUOTE=ChuckOakley]Where is this common thought of a probably top 4 seed?
A lock for the playoffs sure.[/QUOTE]
You're reasonably pessimistic compared to the common viewpoint of the Net fanbase, the people on this board, the people i know outside of this board, and the media in general. Nets are rated pretty highly. Not that it's impossible but the range of expectations is closer to 3 to 6 than 4 to 8ish (which is what i would say). People expect the Nets to be good.
Deron Williams, Joe Johnson, and Gerald Wallace are not good defenders? I admit I'm assuming Joe Johnson is a good defender because he has always been a starter rather than a 6th man. He's not a good enough scorer to be an all-star. There has to be some defense in there somewhere.
[QUOTE=niko]You're reasonably pessimistic compared to the common viewpoint of the Net fanbase, the people on this board, the people i know outside of this board, and the media in general. Nets are rated pretty highly. Not that it's impossible but the range of expectations is closer to 3 to 6 than 4 to 8ish (which is what i would say). People expect the Nets to be good.[/QUOTE]
I feel like most experts have them 5 which is right where I rate them in the East.
Miami - 60+ wins
Boston - 54 wins
Indy - 52 wins
NYK - 49 wins
BK - 47 wins
Chicago - 44 wins
Philly - 43 wins
???
I like Washington until Wall went down, so maybe the Bucks or Hawks.
My best guesses.
But otherwise..of course Net fans on a message board will over-hype their team. Just like Knick fans will and Celtic fans and Sixer fans.. etc.
[QUOTE=RoseCity07]Deron Williams, Joe Johnson, and Gerald Wallace are not good defenders? I admit I'm assuming Joe Johnson is a good defender because he has always been a starter rather than a 6th man. He's not a good enough scorer to be an all-star. There has to be some defense in there somewhere.[/QUOTE]
I should expand.. interior defense is a major concern as is rebounding. Hump is a top 5 rebounder in the league and Lopez has at least been top 10 in blocked shots twice already. I fear the defense and rebounding Amare would bring.
[QUOTE=ChuckOakley]I should expand.. interior defense is a major concern as is rebounding. Hump is a top 5 rebounder in the league and Lopez has at least been top 10 in blocked shots twice already. I fear the defense and rebounding Amare would bring.[/QUOTE]
At first I thought you were saying Amare was a good rebounder and defender. The wording of the last sentence had me confused for a second lol.
Wallace is the only proven good defender in their main rotation. Deron, Johnson, Lopez and Humphries are all subpar defensively. I love Crash though and what he brings.