After months of rockets flying into Israel, Hamas military chief dead, fighting rises

Egypt fires missiles at Israel :eek: :eek:


We're headed to war boys

[url]http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/report-rockets-fired-egypt-hit-israel_663502.html?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter[/url]

[QUOTE=Patrick Chewing]Egypt fires missiles at Israel :eek: :eek:


We're headed to war boys

[url]http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/report-rockets-fired-egypt-hit-israel_663502.html?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter[/url][/QUOTE]

And I'm sure the Muslim Brotherhood-controlled government will flat out deny any involvement. :rolleyes:

[QUOTE=Patrick Chewing]Egypt fires missiles at Israel :eek: :eek:


We're headed to war boys

[url]http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/report-rockets-fired-egypt-hit-israel_663502.html?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter[/url][/QUOTE]
Egypt and Palestine about to get f*cked up hard:(

[quote=insidehoops]Gaza Man Fakes Injury in Israel Strike, BBC video:

[URL="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r-qSaHKzDaw"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r-qSaHKzDaw[/URL][/quote]Stern's suspended him for three skirmishes.

You're honestly pretty disgustingly biased Steve.

[QUOTE=InspiredLebowski]Stern's suspended him for three skirmishes.

You're honestly pretty disgustingly biased Steve.[/QUOTE]
how is it biased, it's just reality. The palestinean people see international news cameras and start acting like there's a huge crisis and they're all mortally wounded. Hopefully this link will help you people realize you shouldn't fall for the bullshit pro-palestine propaganda that is everywhere.

Do you believe that Israeli date farmers hire palestinian children for 1 pound an hour and dangle them in the air on cranes for 10 hours in the desert sun, not letting them use the toilet? That is the kind of bullshit that is being said in London at the moment, this idiot pro-palestine people believe that is actually happening.

[quote=Nick Young]how is it biased, it's just reality. The palestinean people see international news cameras and start acting like there's a huge crisis and they're all mortally wounded. Hopefully this link will help you people realize you shouldn't fall for the bullshit pro-palestine propaganda that is everywhere.

Do you believe that Israeli date farmers hire palestinian children for 1 pound an hour and dangle them in the air on cranes for 10 hours in the desert sun, not letting them use the toilet? That is the kind of bullshit that is being said in London at the moment, this idiot pro-palestine people believe that is actually happening.[/quote]Honestly don't know. I'm not pro-Israeli or pro-Palestenian. I just mean to say that a youtube clip with a jumpcut is nowhere near evidence.

Did egypt really fire missles to israel?

[QUOTE=knickballer][URL="http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=JrtuBas3Ipw"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=JrtuBas3Ipw[/URL]

:facepalm :facepalm[/QUOTE]
:biggums: :biggums: :biggums: :biggums: :biggums: :biggums: :biggums:

Stop shooting rockets and stop building on land that supposed to be negotiated. Why can't the dopes on either side do that?

[QUOTE=eliteballer]Stop shooting rockets and stop building on land that supposed to be negotiated. Why can't the dopes on either side do that?[/QUOTE]

Religion????
All 3 major religions in the regions are using their beliefs to justify what is currently going on.

They are all supposed to be "people of the book". It's not like churchgoers vs a pagan worshipping cult.

Issues shouldn't be that hard to work out.

Pretty misleading for Steve/Jeff to post that video and for Nick Young to concur that Palestinians are somehow faking injuries and such. The truth is that many women and children are being killed.

But let me take a step back and look at this from a realist perspective. The root source of this problem for me is Hamas. Look, Israel is certainly not worrying about bombing innocent people or taking more land,etc. Hamas are the ones that are ruining this for the Palestinians. It really feels like this whole cycle comes about every few years.

What has to happen to EVER reach peace in this conflict is a stable and moderate Palestinian government. The people need to get away from terrorist propaganda. They need to get away from the dream of destroying Israel--it's only destroying themselves. The facts of the matter are that Israel holds all the cards. They have the backing of every important country and has all the military and economic capabilities. Is rocketing them going to solve anything? ever? **** no.

There has to be some sort of revolution within Gaza, a democratic resurgence led by the intellectuals and moderates of the region. This all sounds like a pipe dream but it has to happen. If there is a stable government in place ready to negotiate and put away all fighting...then Israel would have no more excuses for advancing on land or for not reaching an agreement themselves.

Until then, this status quo will continue on and on. Very sad, but reality. It's up to the Palestinian people to decide what they really want.

Op-Ed from the NYT.. a human perspective from inside Gaza.

[QUOTE]I don

[QUOTE=RaininThrees]Op-Ed from the NYT.. a human perspective from inside Gaza.



[url]http://www.nytimes.com/2012/11/17/opinion/trapped-in-gaza.html?ref=opinion&_r=0[/url][/QUOTE]


then leave to another country? i'm sure there would be a lot of options there and many people willing to help them move.

Israel is doomed to always live in this state since theres too many muslims that hate them. nobody is going to reason with them.

[QUOTE=Godzuki]then leave to another country? i'm sure there would be a lot of options there and many people willing to help them move.

Israel is doomed to always live in this state since theres too many muslims that hate them. nobody is going to reason with them.[/QUOTE]

Because nobody wants them, not even other Arabs. It's actually quite hilarious. You've got the Egyptian PM visiting Palestine and denouncing Israeli treatment of Palestinians. Meanwhile Egypt shares a border with Gaza and could take them in any time they wanted. And guess what they do? They guard that shit with tanks.

Google "Black September". Jordan let a whole shit load of Palestinians into their country shortly after the formation of Israel. The Palestinians proceeded to try to take over the country by force. The Jordanians ended up killing hundreds of thousands of them.

The Arab world supports Palestine when it's convenient for them and when it serves their needs, IE whenever they can take shots at Israel. The rest of the time they want nothing to do with them.

[QUOTE=bmulls]Because nobody wants them, not even other Arabs. It's actually quite hilarious. You've got the Egyptian PM visiting Palestine and denouncing Israeli treatment of Palestinians. Meanwhile Egypt shares a border with Gaza and could take them in any time they wanted. And guess what they do? They guard that shit with tanks.

Google "Black September". Jordan let a whole shit load of Palestinians into their country shortly after the formation of Israel. The Palestinians proceeded to try to take over the country by force. The Jordanians ended up killing hundreds of thousands of them.

The Arab world supports Palestine when it's convenient for them and when it serves their needs, IE whenever they can take shots at Israel. The rest of the time they want nothing to do with them.[/QUOTE]
lol
[QUOTE]The fighting between the Arab states and Israel was halted with the UN-mediated 1949 Armistice Agreements, but the remaining Palestinian territories came under the control of Egypt and Trans-Jordan. In 1949, Transjordan officially changed its name to Jordan; in 1950, it annexed the West Bank of the Jordan River, and brought Palestinian representation into the government.[/QUOTE]
Jordan was born when israel was born, both on previously Palestinian territories so explain me again the "Jordan let a whole shit load of Palestinians into their country shortly after the formation of Israel", when Israel was formed there was no Jordan! :lol

[QUOTE=Blue&Orange]lol

Jordan was born when israel was born, both on previously Palestinian territories so explain me again the "Jordan let a whole shit load of Palestinians into their country shortly after the formation of Israel", when Israel was formed there was no Jordan! :lol[/QUOTE]

#1, Jordan (and Palestine and Israel) were British territories prior to WWI. Transjordan was formed after WWI, Israel was formed after WWII. So you're wrong.

#2, what is the point of your post? To nitpick details? GTFO terrorist sympathizer

[QUOTE=bmulls]Because nobody wants them, not even other Arabs. It's actually quite hilarious. You've got the Egyptian PM visiting Palestine and denouncing Israeli treatment of Palestinians. Meanwhile Egypt shares a border with Gaza and could take them in any time they wanted. And guess what they do? They guard that shit with tanks.

Google "Black September". Jordan let a whole shit load of Palestinians into their country shortly after the formation of Israel. The Palestinians proceeded to try to take over the country by force. The Jordanians ended up killing hundreds of thousands of them.

The Arab world supports Palestine when it's convenient for them and when it serves their needs, IE whenever they can take shots at Israel. The rest of the time they want nothing to do with them.[/QUOTE]
So truthful. Anyone who actually talked to any arabs or egpytians would know that they consider Palestinians to be trash, basically in an Arab's mind, Palestinians are only above Israelis.

In other words they hate the Palestinians and want absolutely nothing to do with them. The Egyptian border is right there, if Egypt cared to much they would take in Palestinian refugees or send in aid, or atleast open the border so Palestinians would have a chance to work in Egypt. They don't, because they hate Palestinians and consider them to be human trash.

I don't know enough about inter-arab islamic politics and their history to know why the other arabs all hate palestine so much, all I know is that they do. It's similar to how the British used to view the Irish in victorian times.

But suddenly, when Israel attacks a terrorist, the whole muslim world unites in favor of their "Muslim brothers in Palestine". Shameless:facepalm

[QUOTE=Nick Young]So truthful. [LEFT]Anyone who actually talked to any arabs or egpytians would know that they consider Palestinians to be trash, basically in an Arab's mind, Palestinians are only above Israelis.[/LEFT]

In other words they hate the Palestinians and want absolutely nothing to do with them. The Egyptian border is right there, if Egypt cared to much they would take in Palestinian refugees or send in aid, or atleast open the border so Palestinians would have a chance to work in Egypt. They don't, because they hate Palestinians and consider them to be human trash.

I don't know enough about inter-arab islamic politics and their history to know why the other arabs all hate palestine so much, all I know is that they do. It's similar to how the British used to view the Irish in victorian times.

But suddenly, when Israel attacks a terrorist, the whole muslim world unites in favor of their "Muslim brothers in Palestine". Shameless:facepalm[/QUOTE]

I can say with certainty that this statement if overall false. I lived in the middle east for 6 years, met Arabs from many countries and still have friends from there now.

As for the overall issue of just taking Palestinians in..the principle is that they want to keep their land...so displacing them as refugees doesn't solve that. It takes the problem from one place and puts it somewhere else.

Ultimately, the Palestinian people need a stable and moderate government. They need to come to the realization that Israel isn't going anywhere and no amounts of rockets will ever defeat them. Swallow that and you can move on to negotiations, which also give Israel no excuses for gaining more lands and such.

These conflicts are far more complicated than most in this thread, in the media, or in the government either can understand or fail to voice.

[QUOTE=D-Rose][B]I can say with certainty that this statement if overall false.[/B] I lived in the middle east for 6 years, met Arabs from many countries and still have friends from there now.

As for the overall issue of just taking Palestinians in..the principle is that they want to keep their land...so displacing them as refugees doesn't solve that. It takes the problem from one place and puts it somewhere else.

Ultimately, the Palestinian people need a stable and moderate government. They need to come to the realization that Israel isn't going anywhere and no amounts of rockets will ever defeat them. Swallow that and you can move on to negotiations, which also give Israel no excuses for gaining more lands and such.

These conflicts are far more complicated than most in this thread, in the media, or in the government either can understand or fail to voice.[/QUOTE]
Do you talk to the real people or just the extremely wealthy western educated ones?:confusedshrug:

[QUOTE=Nick Young]Do you talk to the real people or just the extremely wealthy western educated ones?:confusedshrug:[/QUOTE]
Yes, very real people. Including Palestinian ex-pats.

[QUOTE] The Egyptian border is right there, if Egypt cared to much they would take in Palestinian refugees or send in aid, or atleast open the border so Palestinians would have a chance to work in Egypt. They don't, because they hate Palestinians and consider them to be human trash[/QUOTE]

This statement shows a complete lack of knowledge on social, political, or economic issues.

NO country in the world is going to be eager to take in hundreds of thousands(or millions) of refugees because of the difficulties in finding them jobs, housing, food, integrating them into society etc. There examples all over the world. Do you even know how bad the economy and unemployment rate(especially among youth) is in Egypt already?

If you're THAT ignorant on geopolitical issues you shouldnt even be participating in the conversation.

[QUOTE=D-Rose]I can say with certainty that this statement if overall false. I lived in the middle east for 6 years, met Arabs from many countries and still have friends from there now.

As for the overall issue of just taking Palestinians in..the principle is that they want to keep their land...so displacing them as refugees doesn't solve that. It takes the problem from one place and puts it somewhere else.

Ultimately, the Palestinian people need a stable and moderate government. They need to come to the realization that Israel isn't going anywhere and no amounts of rockets will ever defeat them. Swallow that and you can move on to negotiations, which also give Israel no excuses for gaining more lands and such.

These conflicts are far more complicated than most in this thread, in the media, or in the government either can understand or fail to voice.[/QUOTE]

if they want to keep their land and stay where they're being sieged, then they need to stop playing the sympathy card. people always bring up how many Palestinian women and children have died when they don't even address who is at fault for those killings which is the basis for those deaths in the first place. basically you can throw a rock at a hornets nest and they're going to sting somebody. a reasonable person would then question why that somebody threw the rock in the first place and blame that person. talking about how many people have died and are getting hurt is pointless to the solution.

theres a difference between other countries allowing them in VS them being forced to stay there because nobody else will take them in. thats not a choice. if they don't have a choice then i can't blame them. but if they do, then i have a lot less sympathy for people who want to stay in a war zone when bad things happen to them.

and if Egypt refuses to take any of them in then thats messed up. basically they're forcing Palestinians to be the human shields towards their agenda. altho i don't really get why other countries won't, even non muslim ones. logistics would be a mess but if everyone around the world cared that much reallocating 4 million people is probably possible over time.

Nick Young is actually right on the money stating that the other Islamic states want nothing to do with Palestinians.


He already pointed out Black September, when the Palestinians attempted a coup in Jordan which resulted in a massacring of Palestinians far beyond anything Israel has done.

Lebanon actually has a bunch of Palestinian refugees from earlier conflicts. They have been there for decades and are still denied any form of citizenship or legitimate status. Same story essentially in Syria, although with Syria's current status it's become more complicated.

Egypt is known to far more strongly protect their border with Gaza than their border with Israel for instance.

[QUOTE=eliteballer]This statement shows a complete lack of knowledge on social, political, or economic issues.

NO country in the world is going to be eager to take in hundreds of thousands(or millions) of refugees because of the difficulties in finding them jobs, housing, food, integrating them into society etc. There examples all over the world. Do you even know how bad the economy and unemployment rate(especially among youth) is in Egypt already?

If you're THAT ignorant on geopolitical issues you shouldnt even be participating in the conversation.[/QUOTE]


i think it would be possible with the worlds cooperation. they could be spread throughout different countries where Egypt doesn't have to bear the burden of so many at once. maybe i'm naive to think that, but think of the military and aid groups from all over the world that could move/help them, and them being treated as immigrants. thats IF everyone around the world is so sympathetic to a solution as they portray.

[QUOTE=LJJ]Nick Young is actually right on the money stating that the other Islamic states want nothing to do with Palestinians.


He already pointed out Black September, [B][SIZE="5"]when the Palestinians attempted a coup in Jordan [/SIZE][/B]which resulted in a massacring of Palestinians far beyond anything Israel has done.

Lebanon actually has a bunch of Palestinian refugees from earlier conflicts. They have been there for decades and are still denied any form of citizenship or legitimate status. Same story essentially in Syria, although with Syria's current status it's become more complicated.

Egypt is known to far more strongly protect their border with Gaza than their border with Israel for instance.[/QUOTE]


Key words there. As for the rest:

[QUOTE]This statement shows a complete lack of knowledge on social, political, or economic issues.

NO country in the world is going to be eager to take in hundreds of thousands(or millions) of refugees because of the difficulties in finding them jobs, housing, food, integrating them into society etc. There examples all over the world. Do you even know how bad the economy and unemployment rate(especially among youth) is in Egypt already?

If you're THAT ignorant on geopolitical issues you shouldnt even be participating in the conversation.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Godzuki]i think it would be possible with the worlds cooperation. they could be spread throughout different countries where Egypt doesn't have to bear the burden of so many at once. maybe i'm naive to think that, but think of the military and aid groups from all over the world that could move/help them, and them being treated as immigrants. thats IF everyone around the world is so sympathetic to a solution as they portray.[/QUOTE]

The general arab/muslim population wouldn't accept the palestinians giving up on a state(and the land specifically) for obvious reasons. That's not realistic and shows an ignorance of how the real world works. It's just as unrealistic as saying let's carve out an Israeli state from parts of Nevada, New Mexico, and Arizona and move them all there from the trouble of the Middle East.

[QUOTE=eliteballer]Key words there. As for the rest:[/QUOTE]

For the rest, you give no insight whatsoever. You just ditch the systemic discrimination of Palestinian refugees by literally every Islamic nation in the vicinity as "uh, no country wants to take refugees".

Actually other countries DO take refugees. And other countries DO allow refugees to become citizens, especially if they have already lived in the country for decades. None of those countries want anything to do with Palestinians however.


And like Nick Young said, no opportunity is left untouched by them to refer to the Palestinians as "their Muslim brothers" and to point out that "All Muslims are of the same people". But when it comes to actually doing something for them? Gaza is right next to Egypt, but they haven't done a single thing for them other than speak disappointingly of Israel's treatment and smuggling in arms.

This article explains things with great perspective:

[url]http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/douglas-murray/2012/11/some-questions-for-the-apologists-of-hamas/[/url]

The headline is provocative, but the actual article is good.

[QUOTE=D-Rose]Yes, very real people. Including Palestinian ex-pats.[/QUOTE]
Lol why would palestinian ex-pats talk shit about their own countrymen?:facepalm

I dated a palestinian chick for freshman homecoming dance btw, she didn't put out but she told me some of the biz about arabs considering palestinians to be the lowest people on earth. I don't get it but so many egyptians just loved saying all these racist things against palestine whenever I would ask them about that place.

[QUOTE=LJJ]For the rest, you give no insight whatsoever. You just ditch the systemic discrimination of Palestinian refugees by literally every Islamic nation in the vicinity as "uh, no country wants to take refugees".

Actually other countries DO take refugees. And other countries DO allow refugees to become citizens, especially if they have already lived in the country for decades. None of those countries want anything to do with Palestinians however.[/QUOTE]

Please show me recent examples of where countries with already weak economies and social unrest have taken in hundreds of thousands of refugees without having any problems and giving them full citizenship. Do you really think countries like Egypt, Syria, Lebanon, and Libya are equipped to take in millions of refugees?

Also:

[QUOTE]
The general arab/muslim population wouldn't accept the palestinians giving up on a state(and the land specifically) for obvious reasons. That's not realistic and shows an ignorance of how the real world works. It's just as unrealistic as saying let's carve out an Israeli state from parts of Nevada, New Mexico, and Arizona and move them all there from the trouble of the Middle East.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=eliteballer]Please show me recent examples of where countries with already weak economies and social unrest have taken in hundreds of thousands of refugees without having any problems and giving them full citizenship. Do you really think countries like Egypt, Syria, Lebanon, and Libya are equipped to take in millions of refugees?

Also:[/QUOTE]

These refugees have lived in Lebanon and Syria for [I]decades[/I].

They are already paying for them and they aren't going anywhere, but the refugees still aren't allowed to become citizens and contribute to society.

[QUOTE=eliteballer]This statement shows a complete lack of knowledge on social, political, or economic issues.

NO country in the world is going to be eager to take in hundreds of thousands(or millions) of refugees because of the difficulties in finding them jobs, housing, food, integrating them into society etc. There examples all over the world. Do you even know how bad the economy and unemployment rate(especially among youth) is in Egypt already?

If you're THAT ignorant on geopolitical issues you shouldnt even be participating in the conversation.[/QUOTE]
Egypt wouldn't want the highly educated Palestinians? Egypt can't offer even measly and paltry economic aid? One of the foundations of Islam is to give charity to your less fortunate muslim brothers. Why do they just ignore their next-door neighbors?

Here's the real problem. Israel needs the right borders/land to be assured of it's security, but in order for the Palestinians to have the land and borders for a [B]viable[/B] state, it compromises Israel's security.

[QUOTE=Nick Young]Egypt wouldn't want the highly educated Palestinians? Egypt can't offer even measly and paltry economic aid? One of the foundations of Islam is to give charity to your less fortunate muslim brothers. Why do they just ignore their next-door neighbors?[/QUOTE]

I can't tell if you're simplifying the issues on purpose or just a victim of your own stupidity.

[QUOTE=eliteballer]Here's the real problem. Israel needs the right borders/land to be assured of it's security, but in order for the Palestinians to have the land and borders for a [B]viable[/B] state, it compromises Israel's security.[/QUOTE]
That's not the real problem at all. That's just a childish oversimplification of everything.

[QUOTE] That's just a childish oversimplification of everything.[/QUOTE]

Is that really coming from someone who wrote this:


[QUOTE=Nick Young]Egypt wouldn't want the highly educated Palestinians? Egypt can't offer even measly and paltry economic aid? One of the foundations of Islam is to give charity to your less fortunate muslim brothers. Why do they just ignore their next-door neighbors?[/QUOTE]

:roll:

[QUOTE=eliteballer]Please show me recent examples of where countries with already weak economies and social unrest have taken in hundreds of thousands of refugees without having any problems and giving them full citizenship. Do you really think countries like Egypt, Syria, Lebanon, and Libya are equipped to take in millions of refugees?

Also:[/QUOTE]
Egypt took in a bunch of Sudanese refuges in around 06-07, a few months before I left Cairo. Then they got mad and started shooting and gassing them with a SWAT team for some reason randomly, don't really remember why.

But if they took in Sudanese, why do they refuse to take in their fellow Arabs, the ones apparently being victimized by the common enemy, the evil Americans and Jews?

Why does Egypt completely refuse to help out Palestine? They let the Sudanese in, and they hate black people too. Why not let in any Palestineans? Why guard the Gaza border with tanks and soldiers 24/7, but let in the Sudanese?:confusedshrug:

[QUOTE] Everything possible is done, from using the highest precision missile technology to warning Gazan civilians by mobile phone where and where not to go at specific times. As British army Colonel Richard Kemp observed during a previous round of this conflict, no army in history has taken such care to avoid harming civilians living in the same area as that in which an enemy is operating.

It is not only in Israel’s strategic interests to limit the suffering of innocent Palestinians in Gaza, it is in their moral interest. And here we come to what is perhaps the key difference between the two sides.


[/QUOTE]
[url]http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/douglas-murray/2012/11/some-questions-for-the-apologists-of-hamas/[/url]


Educate yourselves people.

I have also talked personally to a guy who used to fly helicopters for the IDF. He told us how his job in the airforce was to fly low over bomb target areas towing a massive speaker phone, warning civilians the place was about to be bombed.

He said there was still one time he'll never forget, it was flying over a school, and instead of civilians running away, they all started running towards the school, got on top of the roof and started dancing. he said there was lots of children and women on the roof and they were just dancing and screaming up at the chopper.

So a chopper flies over targets, verbally warning civilians to stay away from the school cus it's about to get blown to smithereens, and a hundred or so civilians instead just go on top of the roof, waiting to die.

He just had to fly away, knowing all those dancing people were about to get blown up, and he couldn't do anything to save them. Dude started crying when he was telling this story, and he was a big 6'4 Dolph Lundgren looking Jewish dude. Pretty disturbing to hear that story as a 14 year old.

Was that all propaganda? Was he an actor? was it an evil Jew lie he was telling me and my friends?

TO me it seems Palestine just actively tries to maximize it's civilian casualties in order to gain international sympathy and turn Israel in to evil bullying villains. It's a f*cked up tactic but seems to be working, as all the Hamas sympathizers in this thread can attest to.

2500 years ago the Jews were kicked out of their homeland by the Persians. 2500 years later the Jews go back to their homeland, and the Arab muslims cannot handle it. Before Islam even existed the Jews were in Israel and Jerusalem. While the arabs were just random tribes fighting amongst eachother, living in the desert, the Jews were in Israel, living in Jerusalem.


All this shit about Jews never wanting Holocaust again and then committing a holocaust of their own against Palestine is absolute bullshit propaganda. The only "Holocaust" is the one the Palestinians are fabricating against themselves.

[QUOTE][SIZE="7"]'Next To Jews, We Hate
Palestinians The Most' - King Fahd of Saudi Arabia[/SIZE]
[/QUOTE]
"It's pure nonsense. Nick Young is making it all up":facepalm
[QUOTE]WHO ARE THE GREATEST PERSECUTORS OF THE PALESTINIANS? NOT ISRAEL, IT IS THE REST OF THE ARAB WORLD

As Israelis and Palestinians prepare to visit Washington next week to begin direct peace talks, it's worth recalling what refugees the Palestinians are—in Arab countries.

Last week, Lebanon's parliament amended a clause in a 1946 law that had been used to bar the 400,000 Palestinians living in the country from taking any but the most menial jobs. "I was born in Lebanon and I have never known Palestine," the AP quoted one 45-year-old Palestinian who works as a cab driver. "We want to live like Lebanese. We are human beings and we need civil rights."

The dirty little secret of the Arab world is that it has consistently treated Palestinians living in its midst with contempt and often violence. In 1970, Jordan expelled thousands of Palestinian militants after Yasser Arafat attempted a coup against King Hussein. In 1991, Kuwait expelled some 400,000 Palestinians working in the country as punishment for Arafat's support for Saddam Hussein in the first Gulf War.

For six decades, Palestinians have been forced by Arab governments to live in often squalid conditions so that they could serve as propaganda tools against Israel, even as millions of refugees elsewhere have been repatriated and absorbed by their host countries. This month's vote still falls short of giving Palestinian Lebanese the rights they deserve, including citizenship. But it's a reminder of the cynicism of so much Arab pro-Palestinian propaganda, and the credulity of those who fall for it.

*****************************************************************************************


Mired in poverty: Palestinian refugees in Lebanon see little hope in new law
Some employment rights have been granted to Palestinian refugees, but they will still be unable to work in many key professions, no matter what their qualifications

Standing in the narrow streets of Shatila refugee camp, south Beirut, as battered mopeds speed past and electrical wires dangle messily overhead, seven-year-old Hasan Hameid is clear about what he wants to do when he grows up: "I want to be a doctor and to treat sick people."

But despite Lebanon's proclaimed sympathy with the Palestinian people, Lebanese law will prevent him fulfilling his dream with a long list of professions and ownership rights denied to the country's hundreds of thousands of Palestinians. Generations of Palestinians remain mired in poverty in cramped, squalid refugee camps, and even those with an education cannot own a house or land, or become lawyers, engineers or, unfortunately for Hasan, doctors. Last week a shift in the law granted some employment rights and removed restrictions, addressing decades-old discriminatory laws that banned them from working in all but the most menial jobs.

Palestinians will be able to apply for free work permits, pay into a pension fund, and claim for work-related accidents – but there is no guarantee that employers will hire them, or how the work permits will be allocated, and they will still be unable to work in a number of key professions. Law, medicine and engineering require that a person join the industry syndicate before they can be employed. But a policy of reciprocity means that "stateless" Palestinians cannot be employed like other foreigners who belong to recognised states that can offer similar benefits to the Lebanese.

The law was greeted with scepticism by many. "I fix telephones… Thirteen years of study so I can fix telephones," says 39-year-old Ghassan dejectedly. He studied electrical engineering, receiving his doctorate in Lebanon two months ago. He is among the very few that have gained qualifications despite a lack of funding for education for Palestinians. But even with the new law in place, Ghassan will not be employed in engineering as long as he stays in Lebanon. He said: "Here in Lebanon there is no law, there is no government and nothing is happening. Forget the whole [law] – what's written and what you hear and what you see, forget it."

Ghassan has learned to be pessimistic. After decades of debate on the status and rights of Palestinians in Lebanon, and despite the best efforts of the UN agency for Palestinian refugees (UNRWA), they remain severely impoverished and marginalised. Of the estimated 400,000 Palestinians living in Lebanon – most of them the descendants of those who fled or were forced from their homes during the war following the creation of Israel in 1948, and later in the 1967 Middle East war – more than half live in one of the 12 UN-run refugee camps scattered around the country. According to UNRWA figures, close to 60% of the Palestinians in Lebanon are unemployed. The Palestinian Najdeh Foundation estimates only 7% of working Palestinians have fixed contracts, 90% of which work with UNRWA.

Shatila refugee camp in west Beirut is much the same as the 11 others in Lebanon. Overcrowded rooms in concrete buildings suffer from poor plumbing and intermittent electricity; youths stand around smoking and tradesmen sell their goods on a dusty street through the camp. The Palestinian community was often directly involved in the conflicts that have plagued Lebanon, a contributing factor to the conditions in which they now live. But many point to labour laws that discriminate against Palestinians as the primary reason for their poverty.

The debate over rights for Palestinian refugees has divided lawmakers here for years. Lebanon's Christian parties constitute the largest opposition to the new law – and indeed any law that aims to give Palestinians in the country more rights – based on a fear that any such move would constitute the first steps towards naturalisation, or tawteen. Tawteen is a major concern for Lebanon's diminishing Christian community, who fear Palestinian integration would dramatically alter the demographics in favour of an already much larger Muslim majority. Palestinians deny they seek citizenship in Lebanon, and hold the right to return to the land of their ancestors as a sacred right.

Compromises over the draft law – which included Palestinians' right to own property – mean any tangible improvement of living conditions is unlikely. Nadim Houry, Beirut director of Human Rights Watch, said: "This law is a positive but insufficient step in fixing some of the underlying problems of discrimination in Lebanese law. This has to be followed up in terms of a real dialogue with the syndicates so they open their ranks to Palestinians. I think there has to be a real labour policy to encourage hiring Palestinians."

Hasan's mother, Imm Mohammed, said: "My other son is studying to be an engineer at the Arab University… and when he's finished what's he going to do? I said to him, 'What's the point?' He said, 'I want to be an engineer – you don't know what's going to happen in the future.'"


Read more: [url]http://thehuffingtonriposte.blogspot.com/2010/08/who-are-greatest-persecutors-of.html#ixzz2CburOkhE[/url][/QUOTE]
"He is trying to make people believe that the palestinians are hated in the middle east and that is why Egypt is not helping out. That is of course pure nonsense."

[QUOTE]
"It's time to end this and forever. It makes no sense to travel all over the world then Egypt, an Arab country, treats you like an animal."[/QUOTE]
[url]http://www.aljazeera.com/news/middleeast/2012/07/2012723164215172447.html[/url]

You don't have any clue about what you're talking about, so why do you keep spewing bullshit?