[QUOTE=97 bulls]I wouldnt put much stock in Jordan's opinion on talent. His evaluation of talent hasnt done anything for the Bobcats.[/QUOTE]
But it wasn't just Jordan's opinion. Many people thought that, including [I]us[/I] fans.
Printable View
[QUOTE=97 bulls]I wouldnt put much stock in Jordan's opinion on talent. His evaluation of talent hasnt done anything for the Bobcats.[/QUOTE]
But it wasn't just Jordan's opinion. Many people thought that, including [I]us[/I] fans.
[QUOTE=Young X]Nothing objective points to Wade never being a candidate for best player in the league. He led his team to a championship, won FMVP, put up all-time great numbers, top 3 in MVP voting, top 3 in DPOY voting, led the league in scoring, great playoff peformances, etc...[/QUOTE]
Hes never been. After Jordan. Shaq took the reigns, then Kobe , now James.
Being real now (and it's not like I heard the argument) Drexler is simply not as good as Dwyane Wade. It's ridiculous to think so.
Wade might have been the MVP in 07 if he doesn't get hurt. He was ridiculous.
He was a beast the next year. And the year after, he should have won the MVP.
When you factor in the playoffs, Wade was the Heat's best player in 05. The next year, he was insane. He's a guy who does everything without over-dominating the ball to do so. Dwyane Wade is better than Drexler.
Maybe he could have been better than West, but I really don't see how he could be considered better than West right now. But there is no one outside that top 3 that really has any argument over him.
Lastly, Lebron really only established himself as the league's best player during last year. Not saying Wade was or was not the best player in the league, but he's in that discussion. Couldn't we argue that West was never the best player in the league? It was Wilt then Kareem...isn't that an argument to have? Whatever, Wade is #4 with a comparable prime to #3...but unless Wade goes back to being truly elite, he won't climb West. And even then, he might not.
[QUOTE=red1]My friend, Iverson is not even a debate. Wade>AI on offense and rebounding, >>>>> when it comes to defense.[/QUOTE]
Iverson vs Wade
[B]1x Most Valuable Player[/B] vs 0x Most Valuable Player
0x Finals MVP vs [B]1x Finals MVP[/B]
[B]1x Rookie of the Year[/B] vs 0x Rookie of the Year
[B]11
[QUOTE=97 bulls]Hes never been. After Jordan. Shaq took the reigns, then Kobe , now James.[/QUOTE]
Going by this logic, Duncan and KG never were candidates for best player in the league, which is obviously wrong.
[QUOTE=NLZ]Iverson vs Wade
[B]1x Most Valuable Player[/B] vs 0x Most Valuable Player
0x Finals MVP vs [B]1x Finals MVP[/B]
[B]1x Rookie of the Year[/B] vs 0x Rookie of the Year
[B]11
Iverson is another guy who is underrated, and he is definitely a unique and special player for different reasons, mainly his size and heart, but ultimately he is not as valuable to a team as wade is or was. I am not going to mention rings or stats or anythings just gonna say that wade is prototypical as a shooting guard, he can guard any guard in the league whereas AI is a little guy who will get torched by bigger players who can back him down. Just harder to build around the guy.
Anyone have accurate stats for Wade in the 2006 - 2007 season, before his injury?
[QUOTE=Money 23]Anyone have accurate stats for Wade in the 2006 - 2007 season, before his injury?[/QUOTE]
28.8 pts, 7.9 asts, 4.8 rebs, 2.2 stls, 1.3 blks on 49% (46 games).
[QUOTE=Young X]28.8 pts, 7.9 asts, 4.8 rebs, 2.2 stls, 1.3 blks on 49% (46 games).[/QUOTE]
Ridiculous. :mad:
[QUOTE=Money 23]Anyone have accurate stats for Wade in the 2006 - 2007 season, before his injury?[/QUOTE]
He was injured the 1st game after allstar break
pre ASB
28.8/4.8/7.8 49.5 fg%
[url]http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/3708/splits?year=2006&type=Fielding[/url]
[QUOTE=Young X]28.8 pts, 7.9 asts, 4.8 rebs, 2.2 stls, 1.3 blks on 49% (46 games).[/QUOTE]
Thanks
So basically 29 ppg, 8 apg, 5 rpg, 2 spg, and 1 bpg on 50% FG percentage.
Nice.
[QUOTE=Whoah10115]Being real now (and it's not like I heard the argument) Drexler is simply not as good as Dwyane Wade. It's ridiculous to think so.
Wade might have been the MVP in 07 if he doesn't get hurt. He was ridiculous.
He was a beast the next year. And the year after, he should have won the MVP.
When you factor in the playoffs, Wade was the Heat's best player in 05. The next year, he was insane. He's a guy who does everything without over-dominating the ball to do so. Dwyane Wade is better than Drexler.
Maybe he could have been better than West, but I really don't see how he could be considered better than West right now. But there is no one outside that top 3 that really has any argument over him.
Lastly, Lebron really only established himself as the league's best player during last year. Not saying Wade was or was not the best player in the league, but he's in that discussion. Couldn't we argue that West was never the best player in the league? It was Wilt then Kareem...isn't that an argument to have? Whatever, Wade is #4 with a comparable prime to #3...but unless Wade goes back to being truly elite, he won't climb West. And even then, he might not.[/QUOTE]
Fair assessment. And after further review, Drexler hasnt accomplished what Wade has. Wade should be ranked higher. But I'm sure had Drexler teamed with Barkley and thr Suns or Malone and the Jazz or Ewing and the Knicks, hed have more rings and be at leadt on par with Wade
IMHO, Wade's Top 4 SG, Top 6 guard, and a Top 25-30 player of all-time.
Great regular season and playoff statistics. When healthy, is considered a Top 3 player in his prime/peak. He rivals both Kobe Bryant and LeBron James at his peak. Had the most "Jordan-esque" Finals for SG in 2006 and that might be his signature moment.
What draws him back his short prime (06-11) which was riddled with numerous injuries, ala Tracy McGrady, hence not making him a very reliable talent for a long stretch. It also shows in his peak of 2009, that he ran out of steam vs a Hawks team I thought they could have beaten.
I think in terms of historical status, he will probably get overshadowed by some of his peers (James, Bryant, Durant, etc...), but I would certainly say if he can play at a high level as is career runs down and contributes well to championship teams, he might be more revered like he's supposed to be.
[QUOTE=red1]Jerry west was before our time but lets be real here. Ask yourself this. If jerry west played on the same team as lebron would people give him 1a/1b status? Think about that.[/QUOTE]
I'd certainly say yes.
West had to be the 1b earlier on in his career to Elgin Baylor. Why should I not consider West to be same way with James ?
I also think West's mid-range game makes him even a better match with James than Wade does... and West had brilliant playoffs performances.
I'm also of the opinion that Wade's rating is just fine. Not overrated or underrated, really.
[QUOTE=NLZ]Iverson vs Wade
[B]1x Most Valuable Player[/B] vs 0x Most Valuable Player
0x Finals MVP vs [B]1x Finals MVP[/B]
[B]1x Rookie of the Year[/B] vs 0x Rookie of the Year
[B]11
SUREEEE wade is better than pistol was
:facepalm :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
Wade over Gervin, Iverson, Havlicek?!?!?
This shit is out of hand. This wade movement needs to slow down, this is getting on the line of blasphemous.
[QUOTE=97 bulls]The League changed the rules for players like Wade.[/QUOTE]
So why has he done the best against the physical defenses of his time when compared to Kobe and Lebron?
Hes torched Boston and Detroit, both teams that Kobe and Lebron big time struggled against.
Its utterly hilarious that you claim Wade is somehow overrated and his career is based off one series.
- Hes quite easily the best finals performer of his generation. Kobe and Lebron don't come close. Wade has been all time great in 2 of his finals, and fantastic in his other one.
- Hes the only one not to have been bothered by the best defenses unlike Kobe and Lebron.
- He has 25/5/5 career averages. How in the world can you be overrated with those type of numbers over a 10 year career to date?
- Judging him by all defensive teams and all NBA teams? He's been robbed several times, but who could give a damn? You're going to see the same names on the teams regardless of how they play. All I know is prior to Lebron and Bosh coming, and with Coach Spo taking over, we were somehow a top 5 defensive team, and Wade was the damn anchor of the defense. Severely underrated for 2 or 3 years defensively.
- You're an idiot.
[QUOTE=kNicKz]SUREEEE wade is better than pistol was
:facepalm :rolleyes: :rolleyes:[/QUOTE]
Are you serious? Pete is at best number 10 in point guards of all time on my list.
[QUOTE=Legends66NBA7]
West had to be the 1b earlier on in his career to Elgin Baylor. Why should I not consider West to be same way with James ?
I also think West's mid-range game makes him even a better match with James than Wade does... and West had brilliant playoffs performances.[/QUOTE]
You are seriously underrating lebron. Lebron >>> west or baylor. That miami team was struggling at the start of the season because the coaches couldn't decide who should handle the ball more since lbj/wade are clones. They ended up taking turns going ISO, if lebron is paired with those guys then he instantly becomes the #1 option on the team and does whatever the f*ck he wants with the ball.
His second best player was beasley, beasley is the same exact player now and look how he's been doing. Those teams were devoid of talent, its a miracle that they even made the playoffs.
3rd greatest SG of all time.
This is why I hate the internet. People just look up averages and awards and draw conclusions. It's the equivalent of the BCS system for football. Watch these games and tell me wade now is better than George Gervin was.
[url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U5s6bSfOBpI[/url]
I'll share my full opinions tomorrow. But just wanted to say. I really hope D-Wade looks at himself in the mirror, realizing he's still an elite player, and goes to work on that jumper, goes to work on that post game, goes to work on some footwork issues. This dude is only 30 years old, and if he can improve in all of those assets of his game, this guy can still have a good 3-4 years of great play and possibly a Finals MVP or Two.
Apparently he's already the third greatest shooting guard of ALL TIME
:roll: :roll:
I just get so ****ing mad when thinking back to the 2011 Finals. Wade would be a Top 20 player right now, 3rd greatest SG, and people wouldn't be able to say shit. I just hope he can get on fire in the Playoffs one of these years and pull one out.
[QUOTE=kNicKz]This is why I hate the internet. People just look up averages and awards and draw conclusions. It's the equivalent of the BCS system for football. Watch these games and tell me wade now is better than George Gervin was.
[url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U5s6bSfOBpI[/url][/QUOTE]
Listen, you haven't brought any reason or logic to the table. All you have done is complain. State your case and then we'll see if it matches with reality. And we are not talking about wade now. Even though he has been improving, it should be obvious enough that he hasn't been right.
[QUOTE=EnoughSaid]I just get so ****ing mad when thinking back to the 2011 Finals.[/QUOTE]
Blame LeBron for purposely, and visibly not trying.
It seemed like he caved even more when Wade called him out at half court and was yelling at him in I believe game 3.
Living off of free throws, crying to referees for entire games, and missing open jump shots is top 3 status
:applause: I've heard it all at this point
[QUOTE=kNicKz]Living off of free throws, crying to referees for entire games, and missing open jump shots is top 3 status
:applause: I've heard it all at this point[/QUOTE]
You literally just started watching basketball last year. This is the shit that happens to players when they are not healthy.
[QUOTE=red1]Listen, you haven't brought any reason or logic to the table. All you have done is complain. State your case and then we'll see if it matches with reality. And we are not talking about wade now. Even though he has been improving, it should be obvious enough that he hasn't been right.[/QUOTE]
I'm not typing a paragraph picking apart stats and debating which awards mean more than others. I gave you the names of people who I think are better and recommended looking into their footage/stats. If you want to then cool, if not, that works too.
LMAO @ Gervin, Pistol Pete, and especially Havlicek being better players
[QUOTE=kNicKz]I'm not typing a paragraph picking apart stats and debating which awards mean more than others. I gave you the names of people who I think are better and recommended looking into their footage/stats. If you want to then cool, if not, that works too.[/QUOTE]
I haven't touched stats or awards, but what I did do was watch basketball before the 2011-2012 nba season.
[QUOTE=red1]You literally just started watching basketball last year. This is the shit that happens to players when they are not healthy.[/QUOTE]
I've been watching this dude since he played for Marquette. His 2006 finals was amazing. 2006-2011 mint. But playing well for 5 years doesn't get you into the top three....sorry
[QUOTE=red1]I haven't touched stats or awards, but what I did do was watch basketball before the 2011-2012 nba season.[/QUOTE]
right, because I don't believe dwayne wade is a top 3 shooting guard of all time I started watching basketball last year....
[QUOTE=kNicKz]I've been watching this dude since he played for Marquette. His 2006 finals was amazing. 2006-2011 mint. But playing well for 5 years doesn't get you into the top three....sorry[/QUOTE]
What he did in that span of time is more than enough to get him into the top 3. In fact with the exception of jerry west there is literally no one else who can even have a decent argument. Even jerry west is pushing it because his ranking is based relative to his awards and achievements, not how good he was. If we are ranking who is actually the best in terms of what they do on the court, then dwade is easily #3. Jerry west can also easily be ranked #3 based on career achievements and the work he put in during his era. Is that reasonable?
George Gervin and Pistol Pete were Gilbert Arenas caliber players.
Amazing volume shooters / scorers, did little else, certainly played no defense and were stat padding losers (Gervin specifically)
[QUOTE=kNicKz]This is why I hate the internet. People just look up averages and awards and draw conclusions. It's the equivalent of the BCS system for football. Watch these games and tell me wade now is better than George Gervin was.
[url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U5s6bSfOBpI[/url][/QUOTE]
After watching this 4 minute highlight video, you've convinced me.
Gervin was great, Wade is greater.
I joke around and call eric bledsoe the mini-lebron but in reality wade is actually mini-lebron. Does everything that lebron does for your team - scores, distributes, defends, everything.