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[QUOTE=Money 23]Ridiculously Overrated by: Smoke117, 97 bulls, Roundball_Rock, Fatal9, and a ton of Kobe stans w/ an agenda. Everywhere else beyond ISH, and those posters with an agenda, he's quite underrated.[/QUOTE]
Thoughts ?:
[url]http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=135476[/url]
^Similar posters you mentioned are in that very thread too. But there are some gems for quotes in there.
[QUOTE=Xiao Yao You]Highly overrated[/QUOTE]
Well he's better than Stockton.
[QUOTE=97 bulls]Wades clearly a better scorer than Pippen. Thats as far as it goes. Defense, rebounding, teamwork, running an offense, passing, basically every other facet of basketball Pippen is better.[/QUOTE]
Overly simplistic.
[QUOTE=plowking]I've heard "NBA experts" saying "some people don't remember, but Pippen was the 2nd best player in the league for a few years when they were playing together". They referring to Jordan. Which is false.
Hes overrated. Particularly by NBA experts. Some of them talk as if he was a better player than Ewing, Clyde, Isiah, Barkley, etc.
Pippen was a great player, no doubt, but people remember him as far better than what he actually was due to his achievements in a team. Certain posters act as if he'd be a guaranteed lock for top 5 player in the league right now for most of his career, when in reality he'd be a fringe top 10-15 guy, like he was back in his day.[/QUOTE]
Idiot
[QUOTE=plowking]Wades a better shooter, free throw shooter,[B] passer[/B], blocker, post player,[B] playmaker[/B], slasher, more clutch, [B][B]consistent[/B][/B] and more efficient.
Its not particularly close. Wades better. Melo is better. Durant is better.[/QUOTE]
Wrong on those and idiot.
[QUOTE=97 bulls]I disagree with Wade being a better playmaker, midrange, and clutch player. Wade has failed far more than he succeeded. And in situations where his teams shoukdve won. And you can exclude 06. I feel he was aided drastically by the Refs. So in your opinion, hiw is Wade more clutch?[/QUOTE]
This is almost all wrong. Wade was a very very good midrange player before Lebron showed up. And how he's not clutch or has failed more than succeeded is absolutely beyond me. That's because it's incorrect, so I can't grasp its accuracy.
[QUOTE=Sarcastic]Pippen is a 16 point per game scorer for his career. He is overrated.[/QUOTE]
Ignorant comment.
[QUOTE=97 bulls]Magic wasnt that great at creating his own shot. Id say he got by. [/QUOTE]
Massively stupid comment.
Overrated by 97Bulls and most Kobe stans trying to sell MJ short
Underrated by most Jordan stans trying to prop MJ up
Rated more or less where he should be by most NBA fans
[QUOTE=SilkkTheShocker]Or do you feel he is rated where he should be? I have seen a lot of posters say he doesn't get his due for the Bulls' success. Even one (retard) going as far as saying he was better than Magic/Bird. And some hardcore Jordan worshipers say that Jordan made him the player he was. Which side you you lean on?[/QUOTE]
Claerly OVERRATED.
Pippen wouldn't be Pippen if he didnt played alongside GOAT.
Pippen wouldn't be rated above 'Nique or Clyde if didnt play alongside GOAT.
Pippen's leadership status is also questioned many times like Kobe's leadership cuz of frequent disappearences & chocking in 4th quarter & also quitting on the team in the must win PO game in 1994 ECF against Knicks.
Pippen is a great player. But definitely wont be all-time great if Mike didnt carry his sorry si$$y mentality.
[QUOTE=fpliii]I don't know if he's either per se.
He has to be considered an all-time great considering he and Jordan split lead playmaking/defensive anchoring duties (Pip more so than MJ though; Jordan was more impactful as an overall individual talent, at least offensively), when these are duties almost exclusively reserved for points and bigs. How many guys arguably assumed both of those roles on championship-level teams? On the other hand, he's been overrated quite a bit due to agendas on this board (I'll leave it at that).
He's up there in the rankings and probably the best defender in league history that wasn't a big (in addition to his duties as a point forward for a good deal of his time in Chicago), but beyond that I'm not going to attempt to place him.[/QUOTE]
See, this is a good post.
I don't even want to enter this thread, but I clearly have nothing to do for another hour.
Pippen is just stupidly rated. That's it. Season stats show that he was able to score over 20 while alongside Michael. They show that he could score 21.8 and 22 without Michael, and lead a team to 55 wins, the minute they lose the greatest player of all-time.
Had this guy not played on a team with Michael Jordan, or without the Triangle, he would be the starting PG. Instead, he is the ultimate point forward. And because of their pace, the equal-opportunity style of offense, the lack of offensive players outside of him and Michael and because he wasn't technically the PG, he had low assists. But he was the point, in a real half-court system. Comparing to Anthony is stupidly stupid. Looking at this stats and concluding anything is stupidly stupid. Offensively, he was a great player. An elite player. He wasn't an elite scorer, but he was a legitimate first option scorer. He could score 20 while running the team, being the best ball-handler at his position (until Grant Hill showed up), by far the best passer at his position...a pure basketball player, with elite athleticism and incredible skill, while enough talent to actually dominate on the defensive side of the ball?
Do I think he's a better player than Dwyane Wade? I don't know. Pippen does more things than Wade, but Pippen is quite possibly the most all-around player in NBA history. So concluding that he is because he does more...that's stupid. After Jordan retired, he established himself on people's lists as more than a Robin. You're always gonna have a bunch of lite Skip Bayless's in the world, including fans who don't know how to have an opinion that comes from watching and not accumulating accomplishments and numbers.
But for the most part, people recognized him as what he was. He was a top 5 player. By then, Pat was on his way down. Would I take that Shaq over Pippen? No, but if you want to take those 3 centers and Karl Malone and Jordan, then that's fine. But you're not taking Stockton over him, you're not taking Payton over him. Ewing and Barkley, by 1994? Probably not. Grant Hill? Maybe on his way, but never passed him. But that's where he ranked.
A fringe 10-15 player in today's league? Sure there.
[QUOTE=Money 23]Ridiculously Overrated by: Smoke117, 97 bulls, Roundball_Rock, Fatal9, and a ton of Kobe stans w/ an agenda. Everywhere else beyond ISH, and those posters with an agenda, he's quite underrated.[/QUOTE]
Yep.
definitely not better than bosh. Thats how far lebron compared to jordan. Jordan impacts like lebron but most of his impact comes without diminishing the impact of his playmakers while lebrons does otherwise. Kobe is even better than lebron thats why its a joke to compare him to durant.
[QUOTE=knicksman]definitely not better than bosh. Thats how far lebron compared to jordan. Jordan impacts like lebron but most of his impact comes without diminishing the impact of his playmakers while lebrons does otherwise. Kobe is even better than lebron thats why its a joke to compare him to durant.[/QUOTE]
Knicksman continues to explore the boundaries of stupidity.
[QUOTE=Smoke117]Knicksman continues to explore the boundaries of stupidity.[/QUOTE]
See...I can love you too...I agree.
[QUOTE=Whoah10115]Well he's better than Stockton.
Overly simplistic.
Idiot
Wrong on those and idiot.
This is almost all wrong. Wade was a very very good midrange player before Lebron showed up. And how he's not clutch or has failed more than succeeded is absolutely beyond me. That's because it's incorrect, so I can't grasp its accuracy.
Ignorant comment.
Massively stupid comment.[/QUOTE]
I didnt say Wade is a bad midrange shooter. Id say neither is good enough to trump the other. I also didn't imply he wasnt clutch. But Ive seen nothing frim him that would trump Pippen. In fact, his teams have underachived.
I think you need to take time and read posts thoroughly. You twisted a lot of my points
[QUOTE=97 bulls]I didnt say Wade is a bad midrange shooter. Id say neither is good enough to trump the other. I also didn't imply he wasnt clutch. But Ive seen nothing frim him that would trump Pippen. In fact, his teams have underachived.
I think you need to take time and read posts thoroughly. You twisted a lot of my points[/QUOTE]
I don't think I twisted them, unless you think I got them twisted.
Mostly, I think all of those posts (obviously, not just yours) are missing context.
For all the credit Pippen get for winning 55 games, lets give some credit to Horace Grant. The team was 34-31 the very next season without Grant before MJ comes back.
[QUOTE=iamgine]For all the credit Pippen get for winning 55 games, lets give some credit to Horace Grant. The team was 34-31 the very next season without Grant before MJ comes back.[/QUOTE]
Grant had his best season in 1994. It was more than just him tho, the team wasn't as good the next year...and they couldn't sustain that pace. Not to mention Armstrong going out and Harper coming in. Not as good a fit. But yes, you're right on Grant.
[QUOTE=iamgine]For all the credit Pippen get for winning 55 games, lets give some credit to Horace Grant. The team was 34-31 the very next season without Grant before MJ comes back.[/QUOTE]
Grant played a huge role on the Bulls and it showed. They had no real interior defense. and all their bigs battled injuries the whole season.
When you think about it, The Bulls lost Jordan, Pippen, And Rodman for a considerable amount of time. And really were able to not lose much if anything. Them losing Grant REALLY hurt them in 95.
[QUOTE=Whoah10115]I don't think I twisted them, unless you think I got them twisted.
Mostly, I think all of those posts (obviously, not just yours) are missing context.[/QUOTE]
Perhaps you didnt intentionally twist my statement. It just didnt seem as if you really took the time to comprehend my point.
I also feel Im more than fair and use context in my posts. Its not as if I just throw something out there and dont back it up.
Whoah10115 you look like an imbecile when you call me an idiot despite agreeing with most of my points in this thread. Don't be mad because I owned you in previous threads.
[QUOTE=plowking]Whoah10115 you look like an imbecile when you call me an idiot despite agreeing with most of my points in this thread. Don't be mad because I owned you in previous threads.[/QUOTE]
Stop it.
[QUOTE=SilkkTheShocker]Or do you feel he is rated where he should be? I have seen a lot of posters say he doesn't get his due for the Bulls' success. Even one (retard) going as far as saying he was better than Magic/Bird. And some hardcore Jordan worshipers say that Jordan made him the player he was. Which side you you lean on?[/QUOTE]
He is rated correctly for most of the time. He's a top 10 SFs of all time, one of the top 50 GOAT players and one of the best defenders of all time.
That guy who says he's better than Magic/Bird, is exactly what you said, a retard.
Pippen was a damn good player, but he is overrated like a mf'er on this board. People like to point out his all around peak years(5-6 year window)..but if you do that with other guys, they seem to put up better/similar numbers, [B]while being the oppositions main priority[/B]....Pippen had a 1 1/2 year window of being the man...he got to the second round of the playoffs and was on the verge of missing the playoffs the following year. Apparently this is a knock on other greats, but on here its as if Pippen won two titles. Pippen was the best small forward of the 90's, top 10-12 player of that era, but he was not 2nd best to Jordan.
Drexler: 24.2 pts/6.8 reb/6.1 ast
Pippen: 20.4 pts/7.5 reb/ 5.9 ast
You wanna talk about context Whoah? This is a response from OSB when I asked him who hed take between Pippen and Mchale
[QUOTE] They're about equal in terms of impact. Different, but roughly equal. McHale brought insane scoring and efficiency in the post and good man defense and great team defense and shotblocking. [/QUOTE]
Now heres context both were put in similar situations. Mchale and the Celtics lost Bird 6 games into the season in 89. They replaced Bird with Reggie Lewis. Who was a damn good forward. The Celtics struggled to stay above .500 in an expansion year which netted them an extra 8 wins at the hands of those expansion teams. Then got their ass handed to them by them in the first round. Mchale had his normal stats. Had a sevicable replacement for Bird, had most of his championship team, in an expansion year.
Basically, alll the things Ive seen him hold against Pippen hes excused Mchale on. And Mchale was in a much better situation to succeed.
[QUOTE=Calabis]Pippen was a damn good player, but he is overrated like a mf'er on this board. People like to point out his all around peak years(5-6 year window)..but if you do that with other guys, they seem to put up better/similar numbers, [B]while being the oppositions main priority[/B]....Pippen had a 1 1/2 year window of being the man...he got to the second round of the playoffs and was on the verge of missing the playoffs the following year. Apparently this is a knock on other greats, but on here its as if Pippen won two titles. Pippen was the best small forward of the 90's, top 10-12 player of that era, but he was not 2nd best to Jordan.
Drexler: 24.2 pts/6.8 reb/6.1 ast
Pippen: 20.4 pts/7.5 reb/ 5.9 ast[/QUOTE]
Lol a knock on other greats? Every other day Wade, James, and Bryant get pases for what they did in 09, 07, and 06. Jordan gets a pass even though he did squat before he got sufficient help.
Even more, forget what everyone else says. Do you judge everyone fairly?
[QUOTE=Calabis]Pippen was a damn good player, but he is overrated like a mf'er on this board. People like to point out his all around peak years(5-6 year window)..but if you do that with other guys, they seem to put up better/similar numbers, [B]while being the oppositions main priority[/B]....Pippen had a 1 1/2 year window of being the man...he got to the second round of the playoffs and was on the verge of missing the playoffs the following year. Apparently this is a knock on other greats, but on here its as if Pippen won two titles. Pippen was the best small forward of the 90's, top 10-12 player of that era, but he was not 2nd best to Jordan.
Drexler: 24.2 pts/6.8 reb/6.1 ast
Pippen: 20.4 pts/7.5 reb/ 5.9 ast[/QUOTE]
I wasn't going to post anything in this thread as we've all argued this whole thing to death and it's just boring, but Drexler and Pippen were actually really similar as far as scorers. The Main difference is that Drexler played in those high paced up tempo Blazer offense's and Pippen played in the slow, half court, triangle offense. He could have scored just as much as Drexler if he you replaced him on those Blazer teams running and gunning as he was at his best in the open court as a scorer. That's putting aside the fact that Pippen was vastly superior defensively too. I've always said that I found the whole Jordan vs Drexler hype in the 92 finals silly as the two best players were on the Bulls. Pippen was better than Drexler.
[QUOTE=Smoke117]I wasn't going to post anything in this thread as we've all argued this whole thing to death and it's just boring, but Drexler and Pippen were actually really similar as far as scorers. The Main difference is that Drexler played in those high paced up tempo Blazer offense's and Pippen played in the slow, half court, triangle offense. He could have scored just as much as Drexler if he you replaced him on those Blazer teams running and gunning as he was at his best in the open court as a scorer. That's putting aside the fact that Pippen was vastly superior defensively too. I've always said that I found the whole Jordan vs Drexler hype in the 92 finals was silly as the two best players were on the Bulls. Pippen was better than Drexler.[/QUOTE]
Its funny. Pippen dominated Drexler in that fourth quarter of game six in 92. And the Blazers had that 15 pt lead going in. And yet they still refuse to get their head oit of the sand
[QUOTE=97 bulls]You wanna talk about context Whoah? This is a response from OSB when I asked him who hed take between Pippen and Mchale
Now heres context both were put in similar situations. Mchale and the Celtics lost Bird 6 games into the season in 89. They replaced Bird with Reggie Lewis. Who was a damn good forward. The Celtics struggled to stay above .500 in an expansion year which netted them an extra 8 wins at the hands of those expansion teams. Then got their ass handed to them by them in the first round. Mchale had his normal stats. Had a sevicable replacement for Bird, had most of his championship team, in an expansion year.
Basically, alll the things Ive seen him hold against Pippen hes excused Mchale on. And Mchale was in a much better situation to succeed.[/QUOTE]
Well, some people are stuck on what they want to be stuck on. Pippen was better than McHale. As far as you go, I disagree with the points on Magic. I think that's insane. Magic could pretty much as he pleased, in just about every facet of the game.
[QUOTE=97 bulls]Its funny. Pippen dominated Drexler in that fourth quarter of game six in 92. And the Blazers had that 15 pt lead going in. And yet they still refuse to get their head oit of the sand[/QUOTE]
He didn't dominate shit, lucky I'm on my phone, I posted a in one of ur previous pip threads and showed he didn't do what u claim
On sports forums he is overrated. In retrospect all time he is where he needs to be.
[QUOTE=97 bulls]Lol a knock on other greats? Every other day Wade, James, and Bryant get pases for what they did in 09, 07, and 06. Jordan gets a pass even though he did squat before he got sufficient help.
Even more, forget what everyone else says. Do you judge everyone fairly?[/QUOTE]
Wade, James and Bryant are all time greats and better than Pip....Jordan was still a dominate player who couldn't win until ur hero got past his migraines and developed, hard to beat dynasty teams all alone...no one ever said pip didn't contribute, but u acting like this mfer is anywhere near Magic is a complete joke
[QUOTE=Deuce Bigalow]Who's higher on the all-time list, Pippen or Lebron?
[COLOR="white"]lol[/COLOR][/QUOTE]
LeBron. :biggums: :biggums:
LeBron is a top 15 player of all-time. Scottie is a top 25 player of all-time.
[QUOTE=LEFT4DEAD]I dont see anything funny about that. Wade is clearly better player than Scottie.[/QUOTE]
:facepalm
Wade is a top 50-60 player. Let's not get ahead of ourselves, brah.
[QUOTE=longhornfan1234]:facepalm
Wade is a top 50-60 player. Let's not get ahead of ourselves, brah.[/QUOTE]
Wade is clearly a better player than Scottie. Let's not be stupid.
[QUOTE=PJR]Wade is clearly a better player than Scottie. Let's not be stupid.[/QUOTE]
Scottie is better passer, defender, rebounder, play maker, and took his team out of the first round without a stacked team. Wade has NEVER took his team past the first round without a stacked team. MJ doesn't win six rings without Pippen. :coleman:
Did someone say Wade is top 50-60? :roll:
And Scottie is better than Clyde Drexler.
[QUOTE=Calabis]He didn't dominate shit, lucky I'm on my phone, I posted a in one of ur previous pip threads and showed he didn't do what u claim[/QUOTE]
Then I look forward to you getting home. Cuz I cant wait to see how you spin what happened in that game.
[QUOTE=Calabis]Wade, James and Bryant are all time greats and better than Pip....Jordan was still a dominate player who couldn't win until ur hero got past his migraines and developed, hard to beat dynasty teams all alone...no one ever said pip didn't contribute, but u acting like this mfer is anywhere near Magic is a complete joke[/QUOTE]
So in other words they get passes for being no more succesful in similar situations and Pippen shouldnt. Youre incredible. It takes real balls to be this contradictory and not give a damn
[QUOTE=97 bulls]Then I look forward to you getting home. Cuz I cant wait to see how you spin what happened in that game.[/QUOTE]
Don't need to spin shit sir!!!
Armstrong assist to Hansen for 3 points
Hansen pass to King flag foul by Drexler..free throws
Pippen scores on post up
King fouled free throws
Hansen to Pip, post up turn around
Missed shot rebound Armstrong, dribbles out hits turn around
Pip to King, backs up Williams, who flops, hits turn around
All this with Blazers imploding on offense..Bulls within 3
Jordan now enters game after Blazers timeout
Pippen catches them napping drives in for a lay-up
Jordan drives floater over Cliff
Pippen hits 3 with shot clock running down, nice shot... ties game at 85
Jordan hits tough jumper falling to right(87-87)
Jordan steal dunk(89-87)
Pippen jumper from free throw line (91-89)
Jordan fadeaway (93-91)
Jordan dribble up the court, blows by Drexler lay-up (95-91) (35 seconds)
Pippen dumb foul, gives free throws (95-93)
Jordan fouled intentionally free throws(97-93) 11.8 seconds left
ball game
Pippen played a damn good game but u talk about it like he went on a one man tear...in the time Jordan/Grant are on the bench, King scores 6 points, Pippen 4 points......Jordan enters and scores 12 points, Pippen 7.....Jordan outscores Pippen 12-11 in fourth quarter
[QUOTE=97 bulls]So in other words they get passes for being no more succesful in similar situations and Pippen shouldnt. Youre incredible. It takes real balls to be this contradictory and not give a damn[/QUOTE]
16/6/5 GOAT Perimeter Defender
30/6/5 Great Perimeter Defender
24/4/5 Damn good Perimeter Defender, great blocker of shots
25/5/4 Great Perimeter Defender
you tell me who would be the last one you take
[QUOTE=Whoah10115]Did someone say Wade is top 50-60? :roll:
And Scottie is better than Clyde Drexler.[/QUOTE]
Nah very similar, Scottie better defender, Cylde better scorer
very underrated. some can argue he was the most important player during 6 championship runs but he will never get the credit.
[QUOTE=longhornfan1234]Scottie is better passer, defender, rebounder, play maker, and took his team out of the first round without a stacked team. Wade has NEVER took his team past the first round without a stacked team. MJ doesn't win six rings without Pippen. :coleman:[/QUOTE]
Wade led his team out the first round his ROOKIE year, idiot.
[url]http://youtu.be/S-Op-CdfiOI[/url]
Phil would NEVER call for the ball to be in Toni Kukoc's hands if Wade was his go to guy, I know that much...:roll:
[QUOTE=Rysio]very underrated. some can argue he was the most important player during 6 championship runs but he will never get the credit.[/QUOTE]
:oldlol: it's comments like this that make him very overrated.