Now that Kobe has decided to be a facilitator, is he better at it than Lebron James?

[QUOTE=longtime lurker]Haha calm down sport I was just using the same play of words Lebron used for Kobe. Jesus people can't even joke around without someone getting up in arms and posting a wall of text.[/QUOTE]
I was honestly just kidding back. I don't get Kobe being self and fan proclaimed "born and bred scorer" with only 2x scoring titles.

Meanwhile LeBron, who preaches his game doesn't allow for self indulgent scoring binges, has 2x seasons of 30+ ppg and one less scoring title than the scoring obsessed Kobe.

Doesn't that lend itself to Bron being an inherently better scorer and player? He doesn't focus on scoring, yet delivers the same output as Kobe, while doing more on the floor elsewhere?

[QUOTE=gengiskhan]blah blah blah Kobe didn't sign my autograph :cry: [/QUOTE]

:confusedshrug:

[QUOTE=ThatsGame]The difference is Kobe is specifically focusing on Assists, LeBron doesn't. LeBron has an all around game, scoring, rebounding, and assists. If LeBron were to give up scoring and rebounds, he could easily get the same or more assists then Kobe.

[B]It's really easy to pass the ball.[/B] Don't act like Kobe is some god for being able to.[/QUOTE]


:roll: Wow you're an idiot, and LeBron's rebounding numbers are padded with defensive boards. Has no bearing on assists. If anything it should help him since he snatches defensive gimme boards from teamates and gets the ball in his hands right away.

Also, LeBron doesn't care about stats? Since WHEN. The same guy who tried to outdo Kobe's 61 in the garden and got a rebound taken away trying to pad.

[QUOTE=CavaliersFTW]The question of the topic is, when Kobe is in facilitate mode is he a better [I]facilitator[/I] than Lebron (note... a specific task). The question isn't whether he is a better / more well rounded / complete player while doing it. It's simply whether or not he is a better [I]facilitator[/I] when he puts his mind to it. 13 assists per game even in a 3 game stretch has only once been matched by Lebron during Lebron's best passing season - you guys act like he puts up assist numbers for 3 game stretches like that all the time - he doesn't.[/QUOTE]
If Kobe is such a great facilitator and he's so smart why doesn't he do it more if he sees it helps his team? Lebron has nearly double the amount of 10+ assists games.

[QUOTE=Money 23]I was honestly just kidding back. I don't get Kobe being self and fan proclaimed "born and bred scorer" with only 2x scoring titles.

Meanwhile LeBron, who preaches his game doesn't allow for self indulgent scoring binges, has 2x seasons of 30+ ppg and one less scoring title than the scoring obsessed Kobe.

Doesn't that lend itself to Bron being an inherently better scorer and player? He doesn't focus on scoring, yet delivers the same output as Kobe, while doing more on the floor elsewhere?[/QUOTE]

Well if Kobe hadn't played with Shaq in his prime years he would have had more scoring titles. Just like Lebron isn't winning any scoring titles playing with Bosh and Wade. And no way is Lebron an inherently better scorer than Kobe just because of scoring titles. Considering that he's never had to share the ball with a major offensive threat (and don't give me the tired he had to do everything for the Cavs excuse). When it comes down to it ask any knowledgeable NBA person (I'm not talking about posters on a message board) and they'll tell you Kobe is top 5 greatest scorers of all time and Lebron is top 5 most versatile players of all time. Both great at what they do best.

[IMG]http://oi53.tinypic.com/34rtwyh.jpg[/IMG]


[IMG]http://i1253.photobucket.com/albums/hh600/Rodman2124/kobeclutch.gif[/IMG]

[QUOTE=tikay0]Pretty sure if LBJ was playing with prime Shaq, they'd both have 7-8 rings by now. Not to mention LBJ's scoring would've taken a hit, but his assists would be at astronomical levels, even with the triangle.

I'm sure Phil would've modified the triangle to bring out the best in both Shaq and LBJ.[/QUOTE]
The problem with LBJ is that even though he is a willing passer he needs the ball to do things and the triangle is not made for players like him. BUT if he started with the Lakers he wouldn't be the player he is today because Phil would've use him differently. Honestly he probably wouldve won more as a SECOND option to Shaq.

Of course, Godbe already got 2 games with 14 assists, 3 games in a row with 10 assists. Lebron's season high is 12 and he hasn't even gotten back to back games with 10 assists.

All that when Miami has even better shooters, the problem for LeCifer James is he forces assists, kicking it out to covered shooters or his bigs in traffic. Hence why he is averaging measly 7APR. Godbe since implementing the Kobesystem is averaging 13APG and actually SETTING UP his teammates perfectly, instead of statpadin for assists for his precious triple doubles like LeCifer.

Godbe has mastered both the mental and physical aspects of basketball, his mindset can not be comprehended by the ignorant masses following the false prophet LeCifer. Kobe showcases his greatness through the success of his teammates, he leads by trusting, he wins with confidense and empowers his teammates with the divine energies of the Kobesystem. Those who accept his gifts are bound to receive max contracts, numerous awards and championships.

For Statutory and G-Funk



[QUOTE=]

*Carlos Boozer played one year with LeBron. It was his sophomore season and LeBron's rookie season. Boozer's stats went up across the board from his rookie season (10/8/1) to his lone season with LBJ (16/11/2). He went on to enjoy success with Deron Williams (an elite PG) in Utah, but has had much less success in Chicago.

*Drew Gooden. His very first year with LBJ he averaged CAREER HIGHS in points, rebounds, steals and blocks. He has never surpassed those numbers to this day. Furthermore, Drew Gooden shot 48.3% from the field as LeBron's teammate. Without LeBron, he has shot just 45.4% from the field.

*Larry Hughes' numbers are taken completely out of context. Hughes had a much larger role in his tenure with Washington than he did in Cleveland, as LeBron, not Hughes, was the man obviously. Outside of his career year in 2004-05, Hughes had no seasons that differed much from his production while with LeBron James. In fact, his numbers decreased in many areas after leaving Cleveland.

*In Delonte West's case, West played almost two and a half seasons with LeBron James one as a bench player. In 2009, West posted the 3rd highest scoring season of his career to date with LeBron, and notched a career high in 3PT percentage. In 2008, West spent the season with the Sonics and was traded to the Cavs later in the year, where he played 26 games. With LBJ, West's FG% went from a measly 38.8% on the Sonics to a decent 44.0%. His scoring also increased from 6.8 PPG to 10.3 PPG.

*In the case of Varejao, his numbers, apart from rebounding in 2012, have not changed much without LeBron, although his field goal percentage dipped a bit from his last two years with LBJ. On a per minute basis, his stats are virtually the same, however, and it should be noted that he has played on a very poor team the past few years and has thus had a larger role. He has also been plagued by injuries the past few years, so his numbers are not those of a full season, and combined they amount to just 56 total games. It should also be noted that Varejao did not play 20+ minutes until his 3rd year in Cleveland, and his statistics are affected by this.

*Jamison's numbers are also taken out of context. In 2009-10, Jamison went from being the number one or two option (depending on Gilbert Arenas's health) on the Wizards to the 3rd option on the Cavaliers. His numbers for the Wizards were 21 and 9 in 39 minutes a game. For the Cavs, he put up 16 and 8, but in just 32 minutes a game. Jamison's numbers could have been higher on the Cavs if he hadn't inexplicably gone from a 70% FT shooter to a 50% shooter while with LBJ that year. Jamison's FG% actually went from 45% with the Wizards to 49% with LeBron. The past two seasons without LeBron, Jamison's FG% has plummetted to 43% and 40%, respectively. Like Varejao, he plays on a poor team and has a much larger role and more opportunities to throw up shots. LeBron did not negatively impact Jamison's numbers, unless you want to blame him for Jamison losing his FT shooting ability. :rolleyes:

*As for Shaq, O'Neal played just 23 minuets a game for the Cavaliers, but if one looks at his numbers on a per minute basis, he averaged the EXACT same amount of shot attempts per 36 minutes as he did the previous season in Cleveland. Furthermore, per 36 minutes, Shaq's numbers with LeBron were 19/10/2, numbers quite comparable to his per 36 minute averages of 2007-08 and 2008-09.

*As for Dwyane Wade, it is insane to think that both LEBRON AND WADE'S numbers would not be affected by playing with each other, as they are similar players whose styles overlap in many ways. Wade was hurt much of this past season and saw his minutes decrease, but he still averaged 24 PPG per 36 this past season. The two highest FG% seasons of Wade's career are both when he played with LeBron James.

*As for Chris Bosh? LeBron does not negatively impact him, the reason Bosh's numbers are down is because he is the 3rd option on Miami, while he was the first in Toronto. NEVERTHELESS, in the games Wade was absent this year, Bosh (as LeBron's second option) averaged nearly 25 PPG! LeBron is quite capable of playing well with Bosh. As for Chalmers, he had the best season of his career to date with LeBron, has been even better in the playoffs, and while Wade was out and LeBron was still there, Chalmers averaged nearly 14 PPG! LeBron alone, in a small sample size, actually IMPROVED the numbers of Bosh and Chalmers.

*Zydrunas Ilgauskas. Big Z, who was an All-Star with and without LeBron, was a good player regardless, I admit. However, of Big Z's 5 best scoring seasons, 3 came with LeBron James. 6 of Big Z's 8 best rebounding totals per minute came with LeBron as his teammate.


Lastly, as to Mike Miller-his role is greatly reduced on the Heat (as anyone who has watched them would know and would understand), and he has been injury prone, as he has most of his career. He is still a solid player, however, although his numbers may not regard it. As for Battier, if anyone has watched the Heat a lot this year (and I have watched literally at least 90-95% of Heat games this season) they would be insane to Blame LeBron for the COUNTLESS open threes Battier has missed after LeBron created a good shot for him.

*Mario Chalmers had the best season of his career with LBJ, as did Mo Williams. An old Ray Allen has done fairly well too.

[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Heavincent]:roll:[/QUOTE]

Do you not think he could?

[QUOTE=SpaceJammeR]lol really? 3 games in only...[/QUOTE]

This. I don't know how three games is enough of a sample size to suddenly say someone's better than someone else in something they've been doing for a significantly longer period of time.

But of course, people need something to talk about.

[QUOTE=RRR3]For Statutory and G-Funk[/QUOTE]
and none of that stopped the Cavs from two straight 60 win seasons and many people claiming they were going to win it all.


Then, the playoffs happened.

[QUOTE=RRR3]For Statutory and G-Funk[/QUOTE]

no time for apologist

[QUOTE=G-Funk]no time for facts that don't fit my agenda[/QUOTE]
:cheers:

lebron has never been as good as kobe. Coz I consider only those who have the same playing style as jordan as the best. And lebron clearly isnt in the league of those 2. The 11 rings just speaks for itself. Lebron is more like oscar robertson. If theres one player right now that could be better than those 2, its durant.

[QUOTE=knicksman]lebron has never been as good as kobe. Coz I consider only those who have the same playing style as jordan as the best. And lebron clearly isnt in the league of those 2. The 11 rings just speaks for itself. Lebron is more like oscar robertson. If theres one player right now that could be better than those 2, its durant.[/QUOTE]

lol

So who's Lebron playing with now to make make him look so good? Hmmm...lets see we got wade, bosh, battier, ray, Lewis...but oh no these are just scrubs from the dleague.


[QUOTE=tikay0]Who was that big, 7'2 monster of a man that was playing along side Kobe, when he was going off?

Who were that pathetic bunch of scrubs that were playing along side LBJ, when he faced the Spurs?[/QUOTE]

Kobe had stacked teams with shaq to win rings and Lebron had stacked teams with wade/bosh to win a ring....they both won with good teams and both had different roles on their teams. Stupid comparison

5 games of being a playmaker vs an entire career. Yeah, good comparison.

[QUOTE=knicksman] Coz I consider only those who have the same playing style as jordan as the best. [/QUOTE]
:wtf: :facepalm Damn it..

Yes kobe when he puts his mind to it is better than lebron at passing the basketball. Kobe has actual passing skills in a disciplined basketball system where he is taught to move the ball around in ways that go according to direct plays. Kobe can perfectly set his big men up in the post with his smooth entry passes, swing it hockey assist style in response to defensive shifts, hit the cutter, find the open shooter, alley oop passing, and any type of skill/trick passing(not that Lebron isn't good at this too).

Lebron is freestyle drive and dish..

I'll take kobe if they both choose to become facilitators. Pretty easy decision..

bronzy>passbe

[QUOTE=tpols]:wtf: :facepalm Damn it..

[B]Yes kobe when he puts his mind to it is better than lebron at passing the basketball. Kobe has actual passing skills in a disciplined basketball system where he is taught to move the ball around in ways that go according to direct plays. Kobe can perfectly set his big men up in the post with his smooth entry passes, swing it hockey assist style in response to defensive shifts, hit the cutter, find the open shooter, alley oop passing, and any type of skill/trick passing(not that Lebron isn't good at this too).
[/B]
Lebron is freestyle drive and dish..

I'll take kobe if they both choose to become facilitators. Pretty easy decision..[/QUOTE]
Basically everything lebron can do but worse and less consistent.

If Kobe keeps it up it's damn close, but Kobe's alpha dog personality will get the best of him at times. Straight up, though. Kobe is probably the better facilitator.

Let me put some shit in context.

Kobe goes into 'pass mode' in which he specifically goes out of his way to pass.
Bron just plays 'naturally', which means he just plays. No intention on having 13 assist, he just gets them without really trying hard. If he decided to get into 'pass mode' then he'd average 12 in a season. But his game is to do bit of everything naturally, not forced.

[QUOTE=andgar923]Let me put some shit in context.

Kobe goes into 'pass mode' in which he specifically goes out of his way to pass.
Bron just plays 'naturally', which means he just plays. No intention on having 13 assist, he just gets them without really trying hard. If he decided to get into 'pass mode' then he'd average 12 in a season. But his game is to do bit of everything naturally, not forced.[/QUOTE]
so basically bronzy>passbe

[QUOTE=tpols]:wtf: :facepalm Damn it..

Yes kobe when he puts his mind to it is better than lebron at passing the basketball. Kobe has actual passing skills in a disciplined basketball system where he is taught to move the ball around in ways that go according to direct plays. Kobe can perfectly set his big men up in the post with his smooth entry passes, swing it hockey assist style in response to defensive shifts, hit the cutter, find the open shooter, alley oop passing, and any type of skill/trick passing(not that Lebron isn't good at this too).

Lebron is freestyle drive and dish..

I'll take kobe if they both choose to become facilitators. Pretty easy decision..[/QUOTE]

Kobe's a great passer, but I don't even see him as being as good as Jordan/Drexler/Wade, much less Lebron.

Apologies if that was sarcasm.

[QUOTE=andgar923]Let me put some shit in context.

Kobe goes into 'pass mode' in which he specifically goes out of his way to pass.
Bron just plays 'naturally', which means he just plays. No intention on having 13 assist, he just gets them without really trying hard. If he decided to get into 'pass mode' then he'd average 12 in a season. But his game is to do bit of everything naturally, not forced.[/QUOTE]
Exactly what I was going to say. +1

Honestly, OP, you should be ashamed yourself.

CavaliersFTW... i understand a fans disdain towards a certain players departure from your favorite team, but letting that restrain your logical recognition for that players game aswell is just ignorant...

[QUOTE=andgar923]Let me put some shit in context.

Kobe goes into 'pass mode' in which he specifically goes out of his way to pass.
Bron just plays 'naturally', which means he just plays. No intention on having 13 assist, he just gets them without really trying hard. If he decided to get into 'pass mode' then he'd average 12 in a season. But his game is to do bit of everything naturally, not forced.[/QUOTE]

LMAO at this.. I think youre describing Lebron here. The guy who constantly thinks of his FG% or the one who would facilitate once his assists numbers are not yet on the average. Jordan or kobe never cared about stats thats why they won a combined 11 rings while oscar/lebron has only 2. LOL Once jordan played off the ball, he started winning. This is a team game and players like lebron are cancerous to a team just like the score first pgs like AI/Rose/Arenas/oscar. Thats why despite the stats, lebron never produced off rtgs as good as jordan/magic while durant in his 6th yr already reached prime jordan.

[QUOTE=knicksman]LMAO at this.. I think youre describing Lebron here. The guy who constantly thinks of his FG% or the one who would facilitate once his assists numbers are not yet on the average. Jordan or kobe never cared about stats thats why they won a combined 11 rings while oscar/lebron has only 2. LOL Once jordan played off the ball, he started winning. This is a team game and [B]players like lebron are cancerous to a team[/B] just like the score first pgs like AI/Rose/Arenas/oscar. Thats why despite the stats, lebron never produced off rtgs as good as jordan/magic while durant in his 6th yr already reached prime jordan.[/QUOTE]
[IMG]http://purplejesus.files.wordpress.com/2012/09/jaguars-fan-gif.gif[/IMG]

:facepalm I can't tell if knicks fans are butt hurt or legitimately retarded

[QUOTE=Nash]When he does it while averaging 25ppg+ and shooting over 50% through a full season then we can talk.[/QUOTE]

/thread.

We don't know if Lebron can play the Kobe System.

[QUOTE=9erempiree]We don't know if Lebron can play the Kobe System.[/QUOTE]

I don't think he wants to. He likes winning games.

I like this Kobe a lot better! :bowdown: Get the team going and then score when you need to.

Don't compare LBJ and Kobe in passing :no:

Lebron is the better passer

Kobe looked like he was forcing it tonight. Like if he's not scoring, he has to be the one to dish the assist. Seems contrived, which is not at all surprising. Next thing you know Kobe is going to be stealing Howard's role

Thread ended tonite....and shouldn't have been made in first place
Kobe can't play lebron's game better than lebron....

:rockon: This dude is trolling u guys for hits on threads

LeBron James makes the right play, which results in assists.

Kobe tries to get assists.





Big difference.

[QUOTE=bdreason]LeBron James makes the right play, which results in assists.

Kobe tries to get assists.





Big difference.[/QUOTE]

/thread

6 turnovers.
/thread.