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[QUOTE=KingBeasley08]Just sit back and laugh. Instead they spaz out like little children doing all this research trying to convince someone that isn't gonna be convinced. I always found athiests to be losers in a way, no disrespect to some of the people here[/QUOTE]
You think they're losers because they don't believe in what you believe in?
[QUOTE=KingBeasley08]Just sit back and laugh. Instead they spaz out like little children doing all this research trying to convince someone that isn't gonna be convinced. I always found athiests to be losers in a way, no disrespect to some of the people here[/QUOTE]
doesnt make alot of sense.. they should just sit back and do no research? they would be winners if they just laughed? :oldlol: Im laughing right now
[QUOTE=Legend of Josh]How is what you bold'd from me something "you thought wrong" (meaning me being wrong) ? ... I don't see it being wrong or an inaccurate statement. You think religious people seem angrier; I feel atheists are. Atheists have the chip on their shoulder. IMO, much more than those who belong to a religious organization.
[B]I mean come on dude, just admit so many atheists await for any and all opportunities to jump into a religious conversation[/B] (be it RL or here on the internet) and engage in a negative way. Atheists are way more quick to blast religious people with harsh insults and belittling smug remarks right from the very beginning of any such discussion.
Different people, different experiences I suppose.[/QUOTE]
Much like religious people love to inject their religious belief's into almost any ongoing event, whether it be related to their life or an event that doesn't concern them?
[QUOTE=Rasheed1]doesnt make alot of sense.. they should just sit back and do no research? they would be winners if they just laughed? :oldlol: Im laughing right now[/QUOTE]
What's the point in arguing? You aren't convincing anyone. That whole 'winner' shit is part of the problem. They take the whole argument like its a contest and come off as big losers. It is impossible to 'win' against a religious person
[QUOTE=chosen_one6]Much like religious people love to inject their religious belief's into almost any ongoing event, whether it be related to their life or an event that doesn't concern them?[/QUOTE]
you just reminded me of religious people who attribute everything that happens to God. It gets tough not to talk about the subject with religious people because most everything they do is guided by god (according to them).
"we would have never got this _______ if it wasnt for the grace of God"
"God works in mysterious ways.. I knew praying would fix everything"
sometimes, I just have to call a TIMEOUT so we can go over what they just said :oldlol:
that talk screams out for a challenge, and I think many non-believers fall into that
[QUOTE=KingBeasley08]What's the point in arguing? You aren't convincing anyone. That whole 'winner' shit is part of the problem. They take the whole argument like its a contest and come off as big losers. It is impossible to 'win' against a religious person[/QUOTE]
I only used the term 'winner' because you called them losers for trying to argue and use research to prove whatever point.
Like I said earlier.. Atheists generally argue the point because it is almost impossible not to..
Like I said, if you hear someone (a grown man or woman) arguing that Santa Clause is real? you arent going to just laugh it off. You might laugh while you point out how ridiculous it is, but you wont always just laugh and say "why try?"
I mean the spaghetti monster is totally a ridiculous idea, and if someone were seriously argue that it is real? they get laughed and ridiculed at the same time.
I understand how religious feel disrespected by atheists, but there is almost no other way to view religion if you arent religious. You can tolerate it as long people dont keep saying silly things in front of you.. If they do that? then people feel the need to challenge it (because it is usually easily challenged)
[QUOTE=Rasheed1]you just reminded me of religious people who attribute everything that happens to God. It gets tough not to talk about the subject with religious people because most everything they do is guided by god (according to them).
"we would have never got this _______ if it wasnt for the grace of God"
"God works in mysterious ways.. I knew praying would fix everything"
sometimes, I just have to call a TIMEOUT so we can go over what they just said :oldlol:
that talk screams out for a challenge, and I think many non-believers fall into that[/QUOTE]
Exactly. And this is why I believe atheists get so aggravated by religious nutcases.
I'm not an atheist, I'm more agnostic than anything. However, when I scroll through my facebook and see "Thank god for giving me another day" when they wake up in the morning, or "I'm so happy I didn't get kicked out of school for so many absences. #godprovides" it makes me want to go on a rant. However, I hold back because everyone is entitled to their opinion and their belief's. I used to try to convince people of what I believed in but then realized it's pointless. Religion is so deeply rooted in our society that it's acceptable to believe in magic and fairy tales, as long as you attribute it to some widely regarded god of some sort, whether it be "god", "allah", "shiva, vishnu, and brahma" or whomever it is they look up to and the respective book.
Im yet to meet an Atheist that didn't come off as mentally unstable.
[QUOTE=SilkkTheShocker]Im yet to meet an Atheist that didn't come off as mentally unstable.[/QUOTE]
I'm still waiting for you to wake up one day, come to your senses and laugh at yourself for being a gullible dumbass all these years.
I'm mentally stable. I used to be religious as I was raised that way. No problems in the home forced me to "abandon God" either. I just learned the power of critical thought.
While Religion is most definately BS, it's actually pretty clever to believe in a God (if you are not completely brainwashed of course). Religion is a tool (kind of like a medicine) that helps you deal with various aspects of your life, especially to cope with grief and loss. Just imagine being a parent of a child that dies, this would be absolutely devestating for religious and nonreligious people alike but religious people have access to lets call it the "heaven wonder pill". This "pill" enables them to believe that their child is now in a better place and in a reunion after life. For nonreligious people this option doesn't exist and while their belief is very likely the truth it's also much more brutal .. basically my child is death and doesn't exist anymore and I won't see it again.
And the good thing for religious people is that they never will notice that they were wrong. That's why you will never convince religious people no matter how good the arguments because it's not about the truth, they just want to keep their medicine.
You guys talk about Christians/religious people as if we spoke a different language and weren't everyday folks you see around town, at school or at work, etc :oldlol:
[QUOTE=HardwoodLegend]I'm still waiting for you to wake up one day, come to your senses and laugh at yourself for being a gullible dumbass all these years.
I'm mentally stable. I used to be religious as I was raised that way. No problems in the home forced me to "abandon God" either. I just learned the power of critical thought.[/QUOTE]
Why respond to that, or better yet, why respond to him
[QUOTE=miller-time]I'd say their response is proportional to the amount of arguments they have to hear about religion. If people claimed unicorns were true every day of the week they would probably talk about that too.[/QUOTE]
I completely disagree with what Christians believe in and see fundamental flaws in their dogma. Living in white suburbia, I am surrounded by people who always utter the name of their lord in everything and sometimes I feel suffocated by the amount of Christian propaganda around me. Yet I've never in my adult life started a religious argument with anyone who believes in what I believe to be fantasies. I mean, what's the point? What will you accomplish by doing so except stroke your own ego and alienate a person? Isn't knowing that you're right good enough that you would feel the need to show other people up? And I'm including situations where a person is actively trying to convert you or something. All you gotta do is walk away, not insult something the dude's believed in his whole life.
As far as why challenge the religious stuff? For me, I think sometimes it gets to point where you gotta say "c'mon son"! Its difficult to play along 100% of the time.
[img]http://www.audibletreats.com/Media/newspics/EdLover-CMonSon-Ep16.jpg[/img]
It's not about playing along though. I don't let people think I'm a Christian ffs. I just ignore their religious stuff.
[QUOTE=nightprowler10]It's not about playing along though. I don't let people think I'm a Christian ffs. I just ignore their religious stuff.[/QUOTE]
what do you do when people ask you to pray for them?
or when you have people who equate everything to god, and even try to tell you that you yourself could have god's graces again if you just believe?
for me, at some I just tell them why I'm not a christian anymore and what I believe.
On the internet? its the internet, and the internet is a different animal (we're talking religion right now).
I always wondered why people are scared to talk politics and religion... Those are the 2 subjects that tell you the most about a person.
[QUOTE=Rasheed1]what do you do when people ask you to pray for them?
or when you have people who equate everything to god, and even try to tell you that you yourself could have god's graces again if you just believe?
for me, at some I just tell them why I'm not a christian anymore and what I believe.
On the internet? its the internet, and the internet is a different animal (we're talking religion right now).
I always wondered why people are scared to talk politics and religion... Those are the 2 subjects that tell you the most about a person.[/QUOTE]
You're telling me that you tell people "no I won't pray for you because I don't believe in the existence of a god?". I mean, we're not talking about religion anymore then. People skills man. If someone asks you that question then that means they're in a bad place and you tell a white lie to make them feel better.
If someone tries to convert me (multiple people have) I just tell them politely that I don't see things the way they do and change the topic. People of all kinds can be handled without you having to challenge everything they believed in their whole lives.
As for your last sentence, I find out about people based on their actions in certain situations, not by finding out their religious beliefs and political affiliations. People will believe one thing and do another. One of those is more important than the other.
[QUOTE=BuGzBuNNy]You guys talk about Christians/religious people as if we spoke a different language and weren't everyday folks you see around town, at school or at work, etc :oldlol:[/QUOTE]
I have a lot of Christian family members and friends. I don't ever spark up a debate with them or anything whenever they say they will "pray for me" or assume that I'm religious too.
They'd probably be shocked to find out how strong my atheist sentiment is, lol.
[QUOTE]Why respond to that, or better yet, why respond to him[/QUOTE]
I don't know. No self control. I agree that I should have left it alone. I shouldn't have even made this thread.
[QUOTE=nightprowler10]You're telling me that you tell people "no I won't pray for you because I don't believe in the existence of a god?". I mean, we're not talking about religion anymore then. People skills man. If someone asks you that question then that means they're in a bad place and you tell a white lie to make them feel better.[/quote]
lol no I say something like "I dont pray, but Im pulling for ya. If you need something? let me know.
[quote]If someone tries to convert me (multiple people have) I just tell them politely that I don't see things the way they do and change the topic. People of all kinds can be handled without you having to challenge everything they believed in their whole lives.[/quote]
I dont think Im using the conversation as an opportunity to challenge folks. But if it comes up? it just does. In fact im the one that is usually challenged over why am I NOT a christian. I wont beat christians over the head, but I will say what I believe, and if they dont agree? then they just dont :confusedshrug: we can still be cool
In RL, the people I know already know what I think and I know many different kinds of people from many different walks of life.... We always seem to still respect and love each other even though we dont all have the belief systems.
[quote]As for your last sentence, I find out about people based on their actions in certain situations, not by finding out their religious beliefs and political affiliations. People will believe one thing and do another. One of those is more important than the other.[/QUOTE]
that's cool, but people talking religion and politics doesnt need to be a taboo subject, and I dont feel it necessary to walk around on eggs shells all the time when dealing with religious people. People's actions matter, but so do things like religion and politics. to me, it is what it is. Saying "they'll never change" isnt necessarily true. I was religious myself. I know people evolve grow and change.
Did you leave Christianity on your own or did someone convince you? I'm not saying people won't change, just that people won't change because of your/my opinions and need to find their own paths.
I didn't mean that you should avoid the subject like the plague though. I guess I had the mental picture of my FB friends picking fights with religious people for thanking their lord or that "Joakim Noah vs Biblical Noah" thread where it seemed like posters were simply looking for a debate. Those are the situations where I'd think to myself that there's no point in arguing anything and just move on. I mean, if someone tries to constantly "save me" I'll definitely let them know where the line is, so I don't think there's anything wrong with you're saying as long as you're not outright disrespectful.
[QUOTE]lol no I say something like "I dont pray, but Im pulling for ya. If you need something? let me know.[/QUOTE]
I'd ask the question that why even say "I don't pray"? Saying the rest would be perfect in that situation. Why would you feel the need to differentiate yourself from that person before offering your help?
[QUOTE=nightprowler10]Did you leave Christianity on your own or did someone convince you? I'm not saying people won't change, just that people won't change because of your/my opinions and need to find their own paths.[/quote]
It was a combination... No one person convinces you to do anything at a single point in time when it comes to religion. When I began to think in a totally rational manner in terms of religion as well as the rest of my life? thats when the process was put into motion. People who dont believe in my god would bring up logical points.. I'd argue them and that point in itself wouldnt convince me, but the accumulation of issues forces you (or at least it forced me) to go and research everything I could about christ, god, my religion, other religions. I was always taught that my god was the god of order. He is the truth. So I figure if I search for the truth? then he'll be at the end of the road when I get there.
[quote]I didn't mean that you should avoid the subject like the plague though. I guess I had the mental picture of my FB friends picking fights with religious people for thanking their lord or that "Joakim Noah vs Biblical Noah" thread where it seemed like posters were simply looking for a debate. Those are the situations where I'd think to myself that there's no point in arguing anything and just move on. [/quote]
yeah on the internet, the conversation gets warped. I dont think there is any value in taunting people when they do their religious thing (like say 'praise the lord for this or that'). But in RL I f*ck with and am related to alot of christians, muslims, jews, (sh*t even rastas and 5% god's and earths :oldlol: ). And the conversations are different because its face to face and we connect as human beings as well as whatever religion we believe in. But I know some feverishly religious people, and sometimes you have slow them down with a good "cmon son"!
[quote]I mean, if someone tries to constantly "save me" I'll definitely let them know where the line is, so I don't think there's anything wrong with you're saying as long as you're not outright disrespectful.
[/quote]
[quote]
I'd ask the question that why even say "I don't pray"? Saying the rest would be perfect in that situation. Why would you feel the need to differentiate yourself from that person before offering your help?[/QUOTE]
mostly because I dont. I dont do that. I do not think it is something I should avoid admitting. Me offering to be a support for this person in any way I can is my version praying. I offer to actually do something to assist (I wouldnt say all that).
I mean if I asked a muslim to pour out a lil liquor for my nephew, he prolly read me the riot act :oldlol:
j/k For real tho. Im just basically saying that I dont want to try beat religious people up about it like people do on the net, but sometimes it just comes up and I just say what I believe without overdoing it.
[QUOTE=Rasheed1]but sometimes it just comes up and I just say what I believe without overdoing it.[/QUOTE]
When it all really boils down to it, the overdoing it part was exactly what I've been trying to advocate against.
I completely agree that debates on the internet tend to get warped. I think my problem is mostly with people who (ironically) get a holier than thou attitude on the net and we see things get completely out of hand.
[QUOTE=nightprowler10]Yet I've never in my adult life started a religious argument with anyone who believes in what I believe to be fantasies. I mean, what's the point? What will you accomplish by doing so except stroke your own ego and alienate a person? Isn't knowing that you're right good enough that you would feel the need to show other people up? And I'm including situations where a person is actively trying to convert you or something. All you gotta do is walk away, not insult something the dude's believed in his whole life.[/QUOTE]
I'm not so much talking about starting arguments as much as being engaged in either discussions or activism. A lot of the motivation for atheists to be heard is to promote secularization. If atheism is represented in the public and political arena then policies can be made that don't encroach on their lives.
There will always be atheists that just like the sound of their own voice and engage in pointless debates all of the time, but there are also reasons to not just turn away and agree to disagree. Religion does have an effect on the way society functions whether it is through law or just social interaction, and hiding away won't do anything to change these problems.
[QUOTE=miller-time]Wait are you saying that neither evolution or the big bang theory have any proof?[/QUOTE]
Evolution has just as much questions as any religion. DNA is incredibly complex and how can meaningful and precise information be created by accident? Through mutation and natural selection.
Just look around you. So much life on this world hold a similarity in symmetry. Half of my face is identical to the other. The same with a dog, cat, horse, and so on. Random mutation and natural selection does a pretty crappy job of explaining this.
[QUOTE=hoopaddict08]Just look around you. So much life on this world hold a similarity in symmetry. Half of my face is identical to the other. The same with a dog, cat, horse, and so on. Random mutation and natural selection does a pretty crappy job of explaining this.[/QUOTE]
Bilateral symmetry came pretty early in our evolutionary past. You know when they say "we share x amount of DNA with y animal"? These are the genes they are talking about. The ones that give order and structure and basic cellular function are the earliest to have developed and because evolution is a nested hierarchy they are genes we all share.
[QUOTE=miller-time]Bilateral symmetry came pretty early in our evolutionary past. You know when they say "we share x amount of DNA with y animal"? These are the genes they are talking about. The ones that give order and structure and basic cellular function are the earliest to have developed and because evolution is a nested hierarchy they are genes we all share.[/QUOTE]
How do you explain the mind? I'm really interested in knowing how it fits in with evolution or better yet the big bang theory. The existence of a mind is atop the list of "where the hell did this come from?" or "how the hell did that happen?"
[QUOTE=BuGzBuNNy]How do you explain the mind? I'm really interested in knowing how it fits in with evolution or better yet the big bang theory. The existence of a mind is atop the list of "where the hell did this come from?" or "how the hell did that happen?"[/QUOTE]
Or how about new genetic cell information forming? In order for a new species to come about there has to be a gain in information. Mutation and natural selection do not explain this.
[QUOTE=BuGzBuNNy]How do you explain the mind? I'm really interested in knowing how it fits in with evolution or better yet the big bang theory. The existence of a mind is atop the list of "where the hell did this come from?" or "how the hell did that happen?"[/QUOTE]
First of all it doesn't fit in with the big bang theory at all because it is trying to model a completely different phenomenon. The mind has as much to do with the big bang theory as it does with theories on cloud formation.
This gives a pretty good description of the earlier stages how the nervous system developed
[url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evolution_of_nervous_systems[/url]
Once early nervous systems came into being the basis for more complex development could begin. Over millions of years specialization occurred and animals became more proficient and adaptable for surviving in different environments. Social animals were very successful and the more altruistic and self sacrificing the animal could be towards its group the more likely that group would survive. As time goes on and the social species (ancestral apes) become more complex they could spend more time caring for their young - giving the young more time to develop after birth. Neural capacity is now allowed to increase again and with it so does development of abstract thought and reasoning.
This is a very abridged version and I might edit it later - I'm sure some of it is wrong. I've been on holidays for 3 months (uni is only just going back this week) so my mind is kind of lazy and mushy right now lol.
[QUOTE=hoopaddict08]Or how about new genetic cell information forming? In order for a new species to come about there has to be a gain in information. Mutation and natural selection do not explain this.[/QUOTE]
I'll explain with your quote. This is what you wrote:
[quote]Or how about new genetic cell information forming? In order for a new species to come about there has to be a gain in information. Mutation and natural selection do not explain this.[/quote]
[B]Random mutation - deletion[/B]
Or how about new cell information forming? In order for a new species to come about there has to be a gain in information. Mutation and natural selection do not explain this.
[B]Random mutation - insertion[/B]
Or how about new cell forming? In order for a new species to come about there has to be a gain in information. [COLOR="Red"]information [/COLOR]Mutation and natural selection do not explain this.
[B]
Random mutation - translocation[/B]
Or how about new cell forming? In [COLOR="Red"]natural [/COLOR]for a new species to come about there has to be a gain in information. information Mutation and [COLOR="Red"]order [/COLOR]selection do not explain this.
[B]Random mutation - duplication[/B]
Or how about new cell forming [COLOR="Red"]forming[/COLOR]? In natural for a new species to come about there has to be a gain in information. information Mutation and order selection do not explain this.
[B]Random mutation - inversion[/B]
[COLOR="Red"]how[/COLOR] [COLOR="Red"]Or[/COLOR] about new cell forming forming? In natural for a new species to come about there has to be a gain in information. information Mutation and order selection do not explain this.
[B]Random mutation - translocation[/B]
how Or [COLOR="Red"]do not explain this[/COLOR] forming forming? In natural for a new species to come about there has to be a gain in information. information Mutation and order selection [COLOR="Red"]about new cell[/COLOR].
[B]Random mutation - duplication[/B]
how Or do not explain this forming forming? In natural for a new species to come about there has to be a gain in information. [COLOR="Red"]In natural for a new species[/COLOR] information Mutation and order selection about new cell.
So this is what we started with:
Or how about new genetic cell information forming? In order for a new species to come about there has to be a gain in information. Mutation and natural selection do not explain this.
This is what we ended with:
how Or do not explain this forming forming? In natural for a new species to come about there has to be a gain in information. In natural for a new species information Mutation and order selection about new cell.
Is that the same thing or a new thing? Do this over and over for millions of years and see what we get.
[QUOTE=miller-time]I'll explain with your quote. This is what you wrote:
[B]Random mutation - deletion[/B]
Or how about new cell information forming? In order for a new species to come about there has to be a gain in information. Mutation and natural selection do not explain this.
[B]Random mutation - insertion[/B]
Or how about new cell forming? In order for a new species to come about there has to be a gain in information. [COLOR="Red"]information [/COLOR]Mutation and natural selection do not explain this.
[B]
Random mutation - translocation[/B]
Or how about new cell forming? In [COLOR="Red"]natural [/COLOR]for a new species to come about there has to be a gain in information. information Mutation and [COLOR="Red"]order [/COLOR]selection do not explain this.
[B]Random mutation - duplication[/B]
Or how about new cell forming [COLOR="Red"]forming[/COLOR]? In natural for a new species to come about there has to be a gain in information. information Mutation and order selection do not explain this.
[B]Random mutation - inversion[/B]
[COLOR="Red"]how[/COLOR] [COLOR="Red"]Or[/COLOR] about new cell forming forming? In natural for a new species to come about there has to be a gain in information. information Mutation and order selection do not explain this.
[B]Random mutation - translocation[/B]
how Or [COLOR="Red"]do not explain this[/COLOR] forming forming? In natural for a new species to come about there has to be a gain in information. information Mutation and order selection [COLOR="Red"]about new cell[/COLOR].
[B]Random mutation - duplication[/B]
how Or do not explain this forming forming? In natural for a new species to come about there has to be a gain in information. In natural for a new species information Mutation and order selection about new cell.
So this is what we started with:
Or how about new genetic cell information forming? In order for a new species to come about there has to be a gain in information. Mutation and natural selection do not explain this.
This is what we ended with:
how Or do not explain this forming forming? In natural for a new species to come about there has to be a gain in information. In natural for a new species information Mutation and order selection about new cell.
Is that the same thing or a new thing?[/QUOTE]
This is really messy and confusing to read. I'm struggling to even keep my eyes open but I will look it over tomorrow after work. Goodnight man.
[QUOTE]But for this book (Bible) we could not know right from wrong.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE]I have been driven many times upon my knees by the overwhelming conviction that I had no where else to go.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE]"Surely God would not have created such a being as man to exist only for a day! Man was made for immortality"[/QUOTE]
What do atheist American's think of these quotes?
[QUOTE=hoopaddict08]This is really messy and confusing to read. I'm struggling to even keep my eyes open but I will look it over tomorrow after work. Goodnight man.[/QUOTE]
It could have been better. But essentially each line has a random mutation which slightly changes the sentence. All you really need to look at is the original quote:
[quote]Or how about new genetic cell information forming? In order for a new species to come about there has to be a gain in information. Mutation and natural selection do not explain this.[/quote]
And then see how it has changed with random mutations:
[quote]how Or do not explain this forming forming? In natural for a new species to come about there has to be a gain in information. In natural for a new species information Mutation and order selection about new cell.[/quote]
The new sentence is not the same as the old one, it means something else - essentially it is a new thing. We didn't necessarily put in new information, we just used what was there by copying, shuffling, and removing elements.
What do atheists from any nation think of this quote:
[QUOTE]"In the absence of any other proof, the thumb alone would convince me of God's existence. "[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=G-train]What do atheists from any nation think of this quote:[/QUOTE]
It was probably written by a normal person before 1859 or a scientifically illiterate or ignorant person after 1859.
[QUOTE=miller-time]It was probably written by a normal person before 1859 or a scientifically illiterate or ignorant person after 1859.[/QUOTE]
Regardless of when it was written, it was written by Isaac Newton.
You should read up on him. He has a Wikipedia page.
[QUOTE=G-train]Regardless of when it was written, [B]it was written by Isaac Newton.[/B]
You should read up on him. He has a Wikipedia page.[/QUOTE]
So I was right.
[QUOTE=miller-time]So I was right.[/QUOTE]
Yes because you googled it.
[QUOTE=The Macho Man]If Newton believed in god then their must be a god. Thread over.[/QUOTE]
True. I better get into alchemy then too. This iron isn't going to turn into gold all by itself!
[QUOTE=G-train]Yes because you googled it.[/QUOTE]
Well I can't really prove that one way or another. But I actually thought it was a young earth creationist quote than a Newton quote.
[QUOTE=The Macho Man]If Newton believed in god then their must be a god. Thread over.[/QUOTE]
No I am suggesting that perhaps the greatest scientist in history's observations/philosophy/thoughts on God should perhaps be considered, even if your brain is rock hard.
I grew up a Christian, going to Presbyterian church until I was 18. In the last few years I have gotten fed up with people who call themselves Christians solely because they go to church. It doesn't matter what they do the rest of the time, but as long as they get their 60 minutes in on Sunday, they are almighty. I don't consider myself Christian anymore. I do believe in God, but don't need a label to prove that to myself.