Kobe Bryant on Michael Jordan, LeBron, winning championships, etc

[QUOTE=kuniva_dAMiGhTy]Exactly. Funny how Kobe talks about numbers, yet fails to mention he took MORE shots than Shaq. :oldlol:

2000-01, FGA: Kobe-22.2, Shaq-19.2
2001-02, FGA: Kobe-20, Shaq-18.3
2002-03, FGA: Kobe-23.5, Shaq-18.1
2003-04, FGA: Kobe-18.1, Shaq-14.1

Bean was a second option in '99, and '99-00. In '98, he was more like a third or fourth option, and in '96-97, Kobe was more like a seventh option. There's a reason for that. He wasn't that great coming out of highschool AND had to earn the right to lead the way offensively.[/QUOTE]
because he wasn't given the minutes and green light to shoot in his first day in the league, unlike someone else. Kobe earned, someone else given.

[QUOTE=kuniva_dAMiGhTy]And Mike's (statistical output) would be higher if he didn't play w/ Pippen. LBJ's would be higher the last 2 years if he didn't play w/ Wade.

Magic and Bird's would be higher if they didn't play w/ great players. Same is true of everyone, so that point isn't really relevant.[/QUOTE]

I think his point was that he spent all but a couple years of his career surrounded by great players. Jordan spent almost half his career on bad to mediocre teams which possibly inflated his stats a bit.

There's really two ways to look at here, in terms of success and in terms of numbers. Great teammates have an affect on both. Kobe's numbers probably stand to improve more than Jordan's or Lebron's if the supporting casts were equalized.

[QUOTE=kuniva_dAMiGhTy]Exactly. Funny how Kobe talks about numbers, yet fails to mention he took MORE shots than Shaq. :oldlol:

2000-01, FGA: Kobe-22.2, Shaq-19.2
2001-02, FGA: Kobe-20, Shaq-18.3
2002-03, FGA: Kobe-23.5, Shaq-18.1
2003-04, FGA: Kobe-18.1, Shaq-14.1

Bean was a second option in '99, and '99-00. In '98, he was more like a third or fourth option, and in '96-97, Kobe was more like a seventh option. There's a reason for that. He wasn't that great coming out of highschool AND had to earn the right to lead the way offensively.[/QUOTE]

You don't think usage % would be the much more logical statistic to look at for the point you are trying to make?

Shaq getting hacked doesn't show up as a shot attempt in a box score but it certainly impacts his teammates raw scoring totals. :confusedshrug:

[QUOTE=DatAsh]There's really two ways to look at here, in terms of success and in terms of numbers. Great teammates have an affect on both. Kobe's numbers would probably stand to improve more than Jordan's or Lebron's if the supporting casts were equalized.[/QUOTE]

Well, it also shows that whether or not Shaq was on his team, Kobe was gonna put up 20+ shots a season. So Shaq wasn't taking shots away from him. If anything, having him on his team really helped, because the defense would often collapse on Shaq (giving more and better looks to the other Lakers).

I don't really buy that all of the "Kobe's stats would have been better if Shaq wasn't on the team" stuff. He would have scored more, but probably less efficiently. That's about it. :confusedshrug:

[QUOTE=kuniva_dAMiGhTy]
I don't really buy that all of the "Kobe's stats would have been better if Shaq wasn't on the team" stuff. He would have scored more, but probably less efficiently. That's about it. :confusedshrug:[/QUOTE]

I think you're correct in thinking that his ppg would go up while his efficiency would go down. His rebounds might also go up a bit.

The biggest difference would be that he probably would have had to carry a bigger offensive load in the late 90's. Without Shaq there to run the offense through, the shots would have to be distributed more evenly, and Kobe would probably be one of the players most affected by that.

[QUOTE=DatAsh]I think his point was that he spent all but a couple years of his career surrounded by great players. Jordan spent almost half his career on bad to mediocre teams which possibly inflated his stats a bit.

There's really two ways to look at here, in terms of success and in terms of numbers. Great teammates have an affect on both. Kobe's numbers probably stand to improve more than Jordan's or Lebron's if the supporting casts were equalized.[/QUOTE]
Context matters. If Kobe spent like 8 seasons on a non-contender he could have put up 5 or 6 35+ PPG seasons.

If MJ came into the league playing with an already established superstar dominant center, his scoring numbers would be drastically decreased.

You could also say though, that although MJs numbers would be lower, he might have started winning championships earlier.

This is why it's stupid to judge players with blanket criteria. Every player has completely different circumstances.

[QUOTE=NumberSix]Context matters. If Kobe spent like 8 seasons on a non-contender he could have put up 5 or 6 35+ PPG seasons.

If MJ came into the league playing with an already established superstar dominant center, his scoring numbers would be drastically decreased.

You could also say though, that although MJs numbers would be lower, he might have started winning championships earlier.

This is why it's stupid to judge players with blanket criteria. Every player has completely different circumstances.[/QUOTE]

I don't disagree, but I was speaking strictly to the numbers side of things.

Kobe started off the bench and that really hurt his stats. He has had to earn his way through. The only modern day equivalent would be James Harden. Now all the best players are from #1 pick, they get teams built around them from the onset and are crowned the franchise player before they even play a game.

[QUOTE=Levity]"It does bother me that during your career, everyone says, 'Win championships.' Now, at the end of your career, they want to look at [individual] numbers. That drives me crazy a little."

great quote.[/QUOTE]

Agreed.

I think Kobe doesn't care about stats and it annoys him that other people do. I find myself in the same position quite often :lol

[QUOTE=cotdt]Kobe started off the bench and that really hurt his stats. He has had to earn his way through. The only modern day equivalent would be James Harden. Now all the best players are from #1 pick, they get teams built around them from the onset and are crowned the franchise player before they even play a game.[/QUOTE]
Well, that's how it has always been. When you're a #1 pick, you're going to a bad team that obviously needs a good player at that position. Obviously you're going to be a starter. If LeBron James somehow got drafted by the celtics he wouldn't have been a starter either.

[QUOTE=NumberSix]Well, that's how it has always been. When you're a #1 pick, you're going to a bad team that obviously needs a good player at that position. Obviously you're going to be a starter. If LeBron James somehow got drafted by the celtics he wouldn't have been a starter either.[/QUOTE]

Those people who are the #1 pick get spoiled because they start out as the top dog. Look at how humble James Harden is, compared to someone like Allen Iverson who refuses to come off the bench even though he is washed up.

[QUOTE=Yao Ming's Foot]All star/ hall of fame voters
[/QUOTE]

What about MVPs? all-NBA first team? Let me guess, no need for you to dig deeper and differentiate, because equating MVPs and all-NBA first team honors with just being all-star and HOFer doesn't fit your agenda? :oldlol:

And do you even factor in that Bosh missed almost half the playoffs and Wade was playing hurt for much of the playoffs? Because you know, that context isn't reflected by your stupid criteria.

[QUOTE=Yao Ming's Foot]
Defensive rating of opponents
Win loss record of opponents

:confusedshrug:[/QUOTE]

I'm not even going to bother looking, because if thats the only way to assess their opponents, then we would never see a team with a better record lose in the playoffs to teams with worse records.

Either way, I'm not even disagreeing with you that Kobe faced better opponents in the first three-peat. But only a biased idiot like yourself would think that the difference is that big to explain the difference in performance and insinuate that Kobe had an incredibly tougher time, especially when Kobe had Shaq taking so much attention away from him and actually being the more dominant player.

[QUOTE=guy]What about MVPs? all-NBA first team? Let me guess, no need for you to dig deeper and differentiate, because equating MVPs and all-NBA first team honors with just being all-star and HOFer doesn't fit your agenda? :oldlol:

And do you even factor in that Bosh missed almost half the playoffs and Wade was playing hurt for much of the playoffs? Because you know, that context isn't reflected by your stupid criteria.



I'm not even going to bother looking, because if thats the only way to assess their opponents, then we would never see a team with a better record lose in the playoffs to teams with worse records.

Either way, I'm not even disagreeing with you that Kobe faced better opponents in the first three-peat. But only a biased idiot like yourself would think that the difference is that big to explain the difference in performance and insinuate that Kobe had an incredibly tougher time, especially when Kobe had Shaq taking so much attention away from him and actually being the more dominant player.[/QUOTE]

Stop arguing against what you imagine I think and allude to and instead focus on the words that I actually post.

:facepalm

As far as the topic goes, there's absolutely no reason to think Kobe would be on par statistically with Jordan and Lebron if he wasn't playing with Shaq. Compare them when they are in similar situations and you would see that.

Best 3 seasons where they had to carry a shitty team (since it was only 3 for Kobe):

Jordan 87-89: 34.9 ppg/6.2 rpg/6.2 apg/3.0 spg/1.3 bpg/51.6 FG%/59.1 TS%
Kobe 05-07: 31.8 ppg/5.6 rpg/5.3 apg/1.5 spg/0.5 bpg/45.0 FG%/56.7 TS%
Lebron 08-10: 29.4 ppg/7.6 rpg/7.7 apg/1.7 spg/1.1 bpg/49.2 FG%/58.7 TS%

Best 3 seasons where they were leading a title contending team (since its only been 3 for Lebron)

Jordan 90-92: 31.7 ppg/6.4 rpg/6.0 apg/2.6 spg/0.9 bpg/52.8 FG%/59.7 TS%
Kobe 08-10: 27.4 ppg/5.6 rpg/5.1 apg/1.6 spg/0.4 bpg/46.1 FG%/56.1 TS%
Lebron 11-13: 26.8 ppg/7.8 rpg/6.8 apg/1.7 spg/0.8 bpg/53.0 FG%/60.8 TS%

So Kobe's only advantage over anyone is ppg over Lebron in both situations, which isn't significant. Jordan beats him in absolutely everything with significant advantages in scoring, efficiency, and defense, while Lebron beats him in everything but scoring, and has significant advantages in rebounding, assists, defense, and efficiency.

Now would his total stats be on par with them if he had more seasons playing on bad teams? Keep in mind that he was probably at his peak/prime around the time he was playing on bad teams, while those numbers on bad teams that Jordan and Lebron put up were probably before they were at their best. On top of that, we have to realize that out of all 3 of them, Kobe probably came into the league the least ready, which means his earlier are still probably not as impressive. And on top of that, we have to realize that Kobe's efficiency stats are probably even lower with worse teams, and his assists maybe lower as well (really, the only stat that would more then likely be positively affected by being on worst teams is ppg, while everything else is unchanged or lower).

Taking all that into account really, his stats from 97-04 without Shaq and on a bad team is probably not that different from Iverson's, who was 27.0 ppg/4.1 rpg/5.7 apg/2.4 spg/0.2 bpg/41.7 FG%/50.5 TS%. I'd probably just say maybe +1.0 rpg/ -0.5 apg/ -1.0 spg/+0.4 bpg/+3.0 FG%/+4.0 TS%.

[QUOTE=Yao Ming's Foot]Stop arguing against what you imagine I think and allude to and instead focus on the words that I actually post.

:facepalm[/QUOTE]

Umm, did you not point to all-star appearances as a basis for Lebron having a stronger team, while not mentioning MVPs or All-NBA 1st team honors?

[QUOTE=guy]Umm, did you not point to all-star appearances as a basis for Lebron having a stronger team, while not mentioning MVPs or All-NBA 1st team honors?[/QUOTE]

Kobe won 4 titles without a MVP teammate. He won two without a All-NBA 1st team teammate. I have no idea what you imagine the [I]bias [/I] you have uncovered by making that distinction. :confusedshrug:

[QUOTE=Yao Ming's Foot]Kobe won 4 titles without a MVP teammate. He won two without a All-NBA 1st team teammate. I have no idea what you imagine the [I]bias [/I] you have uncovered by making that distinction. :confusedshrug:[/QUOTE]

The comparison I made was Lebron's title run to Kobe's 3-peat. I wasn't arguing Kobe's other two title runs. I said Lebron's title run was "probably" more impressive then those two, but I wasn't going to bother arguing that if you disagree. I did say Lebron's title run was "clearly" more impressive then any of Kobe's first 3 and then you typically list a bunch of shit like all-star appearances without any context such as a differentiation between these all-stars.

[QUOTE=guy]The comparison I made was Lebron's title run to Kobe's 3-peat. I wasn't arguing Kobe's other two title runs. I said Lebron's title run was "probably" more impressive then those two, but I wasn't going to bother arguing that if you disagree. I did say Lebron's title run was "clearly" more impressive then any of Kobe's first 3 and then you typically list a bunch of shit like all-star appearances without any context such as a differentiation between these all-stars.[/QUOTE]

When you write that you probably believe something I wasn't aware that I was supposed to ignore it because you did not want to support your statement with facts.

My post had to do with Kobe's 5 titles in general. On average Kobe has faced tougher defenses, beat better teams and had less help than Lebron James. :confusedshrug:

[QUOTE=Yao Ming's Foot]When you write that you probably believe something I wasn't aware that I was supposed to ignore it because you did not want to support your statement with facts.

My post had to do with Kobe's 5 titles in general. On average Kobe has faced tougher defenses, beat better teams and had less help than Lebron James. :confusedshrug:[/QUOTE]
Bronze has faced five .500 or less teams in the playoffs. People act like that's impressive when it comes to stats and completely ignore context.

[QUOTE=ripthekik]because he wasn't given the minutes and green light to shoot in his first day in the league, unlike someone else. Kobe earned, someone else given.[/QUOTE]

one of the most epic comments I have ever read. :applause: :bowdown: bravo.

[QUOTE=The Iron Fist]Bronze has faced five .500 or less teams in the playoffs. People act like that's impressive when it comes to stats and completely ignore context.[/QUOTE]

Its pretty likely that Kobe's 1st round opponents from 08-10 will have a better record than the team the Heat face in the Eastern Conference Finals this year.

[QUOTE=Yao Ming's Foot]When you write that you probably believe something I wasn't aware that I was supposed to ignore it because you did not want to support your statement with facts.

My post had to do with Kobe's 5 titles in general. On average Kobe has faced tougher defenses, beat better teams and had less help than Lebron James. :confusedshrug:[/QUOTE]

I wasn't going to bother arguing with you over his last 2 titles if you already believe Kobe was more impressive and had a tougher time in his first 3 titles. There's no point of arguing against your less idiotic view, when you have a separate view thats incredibly more stupid.

You do realize none of your opinions are backed up by facts right? Its not a fact that Kobe faced tougher defenses, beat better teams, and had less help then Lebron? They're opinions that may have some numbers behind it, but those numbers don't measure context, which means they don't turn an opinion into a fact.

[QUOTE=Yao Ming's Foot] On average Kobe has faced tougher defenses, beat better teams and had less help than Lebron James. :confusedshrug:[/QUOTE]

Are you referring to just finals series here?

[QUOTE=DatAsh]Are you referring to just finals series here?[/QUOTE]

Path to the championship

[QUOTE=guy]I wasn't going to bother arguing with you over his last 2 titles if you already believe Kobe was more impressive and had a tougher time in his first 3 titles. There's no point of arguing against your less idiotic view, when you have a separate view thats incredibly more stupid.

You do realize none of your opinions are backed up by facts right? Its not a fact that Kobe faced tougher defenses, beat better teams, and had less help then Lebron? They're opinions that may have some numbers behind it, but those numbers don't measure context, which means they don't turn an opinion into a fact.[/QUOTE]

Everything is subjective when making any sports comparisons.

There is nothing remotely controversial about considering all star teammates or HOF teammates when talking about a given player's help

There is nothing remotely controversial about looking at team records to figure out about how good a team was...

There is nothing remotely controversial about looking at points allowed per possession to figure out how good a defense was...

:confusedshrug:

[QUOTE=Yao Ming's Foot]Everything is subjective when making any sports comparisons.

There is nothing remotely controversial about considering all star teammates or HOF teammates when talking about a given player's help

There is nothing remotely controversial about looking at team records to figure out about how good a team was...

There is nothing remotely controversial about looking at points allowed per possession to figure out how good a defense was...

:confusedshrug:[/QUOTE]

Never said it was controversial. But its stupid to just ignore context.

Question: Do you think having Wade was just as beneficial to Lebron as having Shaq was to Kobe since both were all-star teammates for them? Ignore the rest of the teams. I'm just asking about that factor by itself.

[QUOTE=guy]Never said it was controversial. But its stupid to just ignore context.

Question: Do you think having Wade was just as beneficial to Lebron as having Shaq was to Kobe since both were all-star teammates for them? Ignore the rest of the teams. I'm just asking about that factor by itself.[/QUOTE]

No but I think he's better than Gasol. :confusedshrug:

[QUOTE=Yao Ming's Foot]No but I think he's better than Gasol. :confusedshrug:[/QUOTE]

Well, I didn't ask about Gasol. But fair enough.

[QUOTE=Yao Ming's Foot]When you write that you probably believe something I wasn't aware that I was supposed to ignore it because you did not want to support your statement with facts.

My post had to do with Kobe's 5 titles in general. On average Kobe has faced tougher defenses, beat better teams and had less help than Lebron James. :confusedshrug:[/QUOTE]

This is true. But yet again...people don't view Lebron winning the title as what makes him elite. The title was necessary to prove he's a champion. So all of this numbers vs titles...etc. Really doesn't matter now that Lebron won one.

Unless he gets injured or falls of dramatically, Lebron will go down as a better player than Kobe. Why? Because he's a better basketball player.

I can just see these stupid ring arguments morphing into...5 rings vs 4 mvps...:facepalm

[QUOTE=Doranku]It's sad.. from everything that I've seen, people dislike Kobe because of his fans, not because of him as a player. I think if people took a step back and just evaluated Kobe for who he is as a player, he'd have a lot more fans and a lot less hell-bent haters.[/QUOTE]

No, his actions and quotes both on and off the court give me reason to dislike him, the fans are just the icing :facepalm:

I don't dislike his talent, I dont dislike his game. I dislike his fake persona, I dislike his quotes about Shaq, how he wanted out on the Lakers when they werent a stacked team but now he talks about how loyal he is etc etc. I dislike his injury claims and how he uses that to make out like some kind of 'warrior', i dislike his mannerisms and how he eerily resembles Jordan and how he did things. I dislike the comments he said about Gasol last year and year before, and basically calling out the team, avoiding all responsibility for his own shot jacking and ordinary defense. I dislike the league's propensity to give Kobe awards that he does not deserve, i dislike his unwillingness to admit fault in most situations. I mean there is so many things, but it would take a long time to write it all.

[QUOTE=DMAVS41]This is true. But yet again...people don't view Lebron winning the title as what makes him elite. The title was necessary to prove he's a champion. So all of this numbers vs titles...etc. Really doesn't matter now that Lebron won one.

Unless he gets injured or falls of dramatically, Lebron will go down as a better player than Kobe. Why? Because he's a better basketball player.

I can just see these stupid ring arguments morphing into...5 rings vs 4 mvps...:facepalm[/QUOTE]

Its circular reasoning. People discredit Kobe's first 3 titles due to Shaq yet when I point Kobe had less help we are supposed to go back to numbers. When I point out Kobe had great playoff numbers during the first 3 peat. It goes back to help. When I point out Lebron had more help. It goes back to numbers. :confusedshrug:

[QUOTE=Yao Ming's Foot]Its circular reasoning. People discredit Kobe's first 3 titles due to Shaq yet when I point Kobe had less help we are supposed to go back to numbers. When I point out Kobe had great playoff numbers during the first 3 peat. It goes back to help. When I point out Lebron had more help. It goes back to numbers. :confusedshrug:[/QUOTE]

You pointing out that Kobe had less help during the first three-peat is irrelevant because no one believes that nor do they agree with the context-less criteria you base that on. And even if he did somehow had less help, no one in their right mind thinks he had so much more of a difficult time that it explains the difference statistically between the two.

And I don't think anyone has ever said Kobe didn't put up great playoff numbers during that time. It just doesn't compare to Lebron's and some other greats.

LOL, he wants to have it both ways. Sorry, Kobe, winning multiple rings while putting up insane stats belongs to MJ. Pathetic that he's commenting on Shaq when Shaq is the reason he has those first 3 rings. No way is he winning in 00-02 without Shaq. Like he isn't chasing the numbers too - that's why he keeps jacking up those shots and chasing KAJ. It's a joke that he even thinks he could be putting up the all-round numbers that Lebron is - only in the scoring. Kobe-system indeed.

[QUOTE=Yao Ming's Foot]Its circular reasoning. People discredit Kobe's first 3 titles due to Shaq yet when I point Kobe had less help we are supposed to go back to numbers. When I point out Kobe had great playoff numbers during the first 3 peat. It goes back to help. When I point out Lebron had more help. It goes back to numbers. :confusedshrug:[/QUOTE]

Well, that is kind of my point.

The difference is simple though. Kobe simply could not have won without Shaq. End of story. Not one other player in the league could have come in and allowed Kobe to win those 3 rings. Even with Duncan, depending on what Shaq had around him, he might not win.

With Lebron, it's a little different, but not entirely.

My point was simple. Kobe fans use the 5 rings as the main source of evidence for his greatness. While Lebron fans use his level of play as the main source of evidence for his greatness. There is a bit of a difference there.

Only until this era of "ring counting"...generally by Kobe fans using this to prop Kobe up....did fans and players (MJ for example) think ring count defined a player this much. Level of play and what you do with your help is what matters. Obviously Kobe didn't have the same chance as Lebron to put up the same numbers early on...partly because of his team and in more so because he just wasn't good enough. At the same time, Lebron obviously had a completely different early career...joining a 17 win team...playing without a championship roster or coach.

Kobe has literally played with like 12 legit championship rosters. Lebron has played with 3 now. That has to be factored in.

And what is wrong with Kobe's numbers? They are some of the best ever. So I don't even get what the hell he is talking about.

[QUOTE=guy]You pointing out that Kobe had less help during the first three-peat is irrelevant because no one believes that nor do they agree with the context-less criteria you base that on. And even if he did somehow had less help, no one in their right mind thinks he had so much more of a difficult time that it explains the difference statistically between the two.

And I don't think anyone has ever said Kobe didn't put up great playoff numbers during that time. It just doesn't compare to Lebron's and some other greats.[/QUOTE]

29.4 PPG/ 7.3 REB/ 6.1 ASS 56 TS%

101.8 DEF RAT 50-32
99.6 DEF RAT 55-27
98.9 DEF RAT 56-26
98.0 DEF RAT 58-24

15-1 RECORD

Doesn't compare to who exactly?

:confusedshrug:

[QUOTE=rmt]LOL, he wants to have it both ways. Sorry, Kobe, winning multiple rings while putting up insane stats belongs to MJ. Pathetic that he's commenting on Shaq when Shaq is the reason he has those first 3 rings. No way is he winning in 00-02 without Shaq. Like he isn't chasing the numbers too - that's why he keeps jacking up those shots and chasing KAJ. It's a joke that he even thinks he could be putting up the all-round numbers that Lebron is - only in the scoring. Kobe-system indeed.[/QUOTE]

This. And people need to look at a few things. If Kobe was drafted onto a bad team where he could've put up ridiculous stats, the longest he would've been in that situation is probably about 8 years at the most, because if a player is that good, which Kobe was, his team is either getting the right pieces around him to lighten his load or that superstar is going somewhere else either thru FA or by demanding a trade.

Now lets say Kobe gets the worst scenario, where he's in that situation for his first 8 years. No matter who's he with, he's not breaking 30 ppg in any of his first 4 years, and probably not 20 ppg or 25 ppg in a few of his first years, and definitely not on some high efficiency. He's not coming out the gate just dominating. As athletic as he was, coming out of HS he just wasn't as NBA ready, athletic enough, and physically imposing enough to dominate right away the way Lebron did, nor was he athletic enough, skilled enough, and mature enough to dominate right away the way Jordan did. So that leaves at the most another 4 years to put up absolutely ridiculous stats, which he may have. But we saw what he did in those 3 years which he was at his peak/prime, so lets just assume he had those same 3 years and another one like it. Are we really saying anything much different?

And then after that lets say he gets his Gasol/Odom/Bynum/Artest like help, where he's still the best player. He's probably putting up the same stats he was putting up anyway. Probably not any better, or any worse. On top of that, I'd like to point out, he only really became a superstar in 2001. Look at his stats from 01-03 where he played with Shaq, and ignore 04 since that season was pretty tumultous with Kobe's rape case, injuries, Malone and Payton joining, etc. Compare his stats from 01-03 with his stats from 08-10. 01-03, his stats were 28/6/5/ on 46% and from 08-10 they were 27/6/5 on 46%. Not much different, in fact slightly better in the Shaq years. So, it really doesn't have to do much with Shaq, but just playing with better players in general. But as we see, playing with better players in general, never really stopped Jordan or Lebron from putting up these jaw dropping statistical seasons, which they've done numerous times even while playing on contending teams. Not to say that Kobe hasn't been impressive statistically on good teams, just not as impressive as them.

[QUOTE=Yao Ming's Foot]29.4 PPG/ 7.3 REB/ 6.1 ASS 56 TS%

101.8 DEF RAT 50-32
99.6 DEF RAT 55-27
98.9 DEF RAT 56-26
98.0 DEF RAT 58-24

15-1 RECORD

Doesn't compare to who exactly?

:confusedshrug:[/QUOTE]

31.1 PPG/ 6.4 RPG/ 8.4 APG 52 FG% 60 TS%
34.5 PPG/ 6.2 RPG/ 5.8 APG 50 FG% 57 TS%
35.1 PPG/ 6.7 RPG/ 6.0 APG 48 FG% 55 TS%
30.3 PPG/ 9.7 RPG/ 5.6 APG 50 FG% 58 TS%

while not having arguably the most dominant player ever at his peak divert attention away.

:confusedshrug:

[QUOTE=guy]31.1 PPG/ 6.4 RPG/ 8.4 APG 52 FG% 60 TS%
34.5 PPG/ 6.2 RPG/ 5.8 APG 50 FG% 57 TS%
35.1 PPG/ 6.7 RPG/ 6.0 APG 48 FG% 55 TS%
30.3 PPG/ 9.7 RPG/ 5.6 APG 50 FG% 58 TS%

while not having arguably the most dominant player ever at his peak divert attention away.

:confusedshrug:[/QUOTE]

weak defense :lol

[QUOTE=guy]31.1 PPG/ 6.4 RPG/ 8.4 APG 52 FG% 60 TS%
34.5 PPG/ 6.2 RPG/ 5.8 APG 50 FG% 57 TS%
35.1 PPG/ 6.7 RPG/ 6.0 APG 48 FG% 55 TS%
30.3 PPG/ 9.7 RPG/ 5.6 APG 50 FG% 58 TS%

while not having arguably the most dominant player ever at his peak divert attention away.

:confusedshrug:[/QUOTE]

Who did they face and what were their defensive ratings? You clamor for context but present very little. :confusedshrug:

Kobe put up numbers with Shaq. He put up numbers with Kwame. He put them up with Gasol. He continues to put them up with Dwight. 4 very different offensive forces. The only constant is Kobe putting up numbers. The notion that Kobe's 3 peat numbers are the result of Shaq is unsupported by the evidence. In fact I would hypothesize that the majority of Kobe's greatest offensive performances came when he was the undisputed sole player worthy of "attention" on the floor.