Lebron James's ability to play with Stars

[QUOTE=Ikill]Shaq Hakeem Paul and Lebron thats a terrible fit on offence because all of them are so ball dominant.[/QUOTE]

I've found that most people have absolutely no clue how to assemble a real TEAM. Since their criteria for judging a player is being a #1 option, they throw a bunch of #1 options together on a team, and it never even occurs to them that they can't all be the #1 option while playing together.

Shaq
Hakeem
LeBron
Paul

I want people who put this kind of team together to state what the expected point distribution will be, and then state whether that's something they'll all be happy with

[QUOTE=ripthekik]it's not about throwing a team full of stars together. That doesn't work.[/QUOTE]

:applause:

[QUOTE=macmac][B]I'd rather go 6/8 in the finals than 6/6.[/B]...these aren't free throws you brainless infant, it's season long campaigns and harduous playoff battles.... The more deep playoff runs you have the better, dumbo[/QUOTE]

BULLCRAP.

A 100% record in NBA Finals is what you want!

Ask Kobe how he feels loosing to 2004 Pistons & 2008 Celtics.

If you loose NBA Finals, You'll always be questioned about CHOKING, PERFMANCE UNDER PRESSURE, INEFFICIENCY ON BIGGEST STAGE, POOR LEADERSHIP etc etc.

[B]Dirk Lost to Heat the 2006 NBA Finals despite being season MVP.
Kobe lost to Celtics the 2006 NBA Finals despite being season MVP.
Bird lost to Lakers the 1985 NBA Finals despite being season MVP.
Malone lost to Bulls the 1997 NBA Finals despite being season MVP.
Barkley lost to Bulls the 1993 NBA Finals despite being season MVP.[/B]

Loosing NBA Finals is the worse feeling in the world once the offseason starts
A reigning MVP loosing NBA Finals is the worst of the worse!

[QUOTE=gengiskhan]BULLCRAP.

A 100% record in NBA Finals is what you want!

Ask Kobe how he feels loosing to 2004 Pistons & 2008 Celtics.

If you loose NBA Finals, You'll always be questioned about CHOKING, PERFMANCE UNDER PRESSURE, INEFFICIENCY ON BIGGEST STAGE, POOR LEADERSHIP etc etc.

[B]Dirk Lost to Heat the 2006 NBA Finals despite being season MVP.[/B][/QUOTE]

And got bounced in the first round the following season by a #8 seed as a 67-win team. Which is worse? Which one elicited the most questions about choking and performance under pressure?

[QUOTE=gengiskhan][B]Dirk Lost to Heat the 2006 NBA Finals despite being season MVP.
Kobe lost to Celtics the 2006 NBA Finals despite being season MVP.
Bird lost to Lakers the 1985 NBA Finals despite being season MVP.
Malone lost to Bulls the 1997 NBA Finals despite being season MVP.
Barkley lost to Bulls the 1993 NBA Finals despite being season MVP.[/B][/QUOTE]

Yeah, what a list of choking under-performers.

Did i actually just read that Magic has an ARGUMENT for being a better passer than Lebron??? An ARGUMENT??


You ni99as got to be trolling right now :facepalm

You give up any chance you have at being GOAT when you get outscored by Jason Terry in the finals during your prime.

[QUOTE=Mach_3]Did i actually just read that Magic has an ARGUMENT for being a better passer than Lebron??? An ARGUMENT??


You ni99as got to be trolling right now :facepalm[/QUOTE]

I don't doubt that it was perfectly serious.

After all, anyone not playing in the here and now is overrated.

[QUOTE=gengiskhan]BULLCRAP.

A 100% record in NBA Finals is what you want!

Ask Kobe how he feels loosing to 2004 Pistons & 2008 Celtics.

If you loose NBA Finals, You'll always be questioned about CHOKING, PERFMANCE UNDER PRESSURE, INEFFICIENCY ON BIGGEST STAGE, POOR LEADERSHIP etc etc.

[B]Dirk Lost to Heat the 2006 NBA Finals despite being season MVP.
Kobe lost to Celtics the 2006 NBA Finals despite being season MVP.
Bird lost to Lakers the 1985 NBA Finals despite being season MVP.
Malone lost to Bulls the 1997 NBA Finals despite being season MVP.
Barkley lost to Bulls the 1993 NBA Finals despite being season MVP.[/B]

Loosing NBA Finals is the worse feeling in the world once the offseason starts
A reigning MVP loosing NBA Finals is the worst of the worse![/QUOTE]


SMH let me help you out.

2 players spend 14 years in the league.

1 player goes to the finals 6 times and wins every time in his career.

Another player goes to the finals 10 times and only wins 6.

Who had the more successful run?

[QUOTE=Joey3000]SMH let me help you out.

2 players spend 14 years in the league.

1 player goes to the finals 6 times and wins every time in his career.

Another player goes to the finals 10 times and only wins 6.

Who had the more successful run?[/QUOTE]
Depends.. You think Bron and Kobe want '11 and '04 on their resumes?

If they played good in the finals and just happened to lose.. Then yea I'll take the more finals. But if they played like shit? Is this even a question?

[QUOTE=Joey3000]SMH let me help you out.

2 players spend 14 years in the league.

1 player goes to the finals 6 times and wins every time in his career.

Another player goes to the finals 10 times and only wins 6.

Who had the more successful run?[/QUOTE]
One of them has a bad team, can't fault him.. but as long as he gets the opportunity, he performs and delivers.

the other.. is a choker, but always gets to the finals because he has a stacked team.

[QUOTE]SMH let me help you out.

2 players spend 14 years in the league.

1 player goes to the finals 6 times and wins every time in his career.

Another player goes to the finals 10 times and only wins 6.

Who had the more successful run?
[/QUOTE]

Damnit!!!

1 has only gone to the finals 6 times (even tho he won all 6 times).

The Other has gone 10 times. 10 Times out of 14 years is huge. He lost 4 of them but atleast he went. the other guy got sent home early 8 times out of 14 years. going home early is not an acheivement. Getting their 10 times speaks volumes.

[QUOTE=ripthekik]One of them has a bad team, can't fault him.. but as long as he gets the opportunity, he performs and delivers.

the other.. is a choker, but always gets to the finals because he has a stacked team.[/QUOTE]
[IMG]http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m6s0fu9fsJ1rpga6zo1_400.jpg[/IMG]

[QUOTE=Joey3000]Damnit!!!

1 has only gone to the finals 6 times (even tho he won all 6 times).

The Other has gone 10 times. 10 Times out of 14 years is huge. He lost 4 of them but atleast he went. the other guy got sent home early 8 times out of 14 years. going home early is not an acheivement. Getting their 10 times speaks volumes.[/QUOTE]
Alright so if Lebron ends up winning six chips but has three more 2011 style finals where he chokes/disappears that will be better than if he just wins six chips with only one 2011 performance?

It depends how they get bounced. Currently Lebron having an extra Finals under his belt is bad.. Because he had an all time bad choke job in it. Same for Kobe in 04. It's bad. They were better off getting quietly put down earlier ala the Lakers in 03 than to get embarrassed on the biggest stage.

[QUOTE=Joey3000]SMH let me help you out.

2 players spend 14 years in the league.

1 player goes to the finals 6 times and wins every time in his career.

Another player goes to the finals 10 times and only wins 6.

Who had the more successful run?[/QUOTE]

Need more info on the 4 losses.

His real ability doesnt lay in playing with stars but in teaming up with them :applause:

[QUOTE=Joey3000]Damnit!!!

1 has only gone to the finals 6 times (even tho he won all 6 times).

The Other has gone 10 times. 10 Times out of 14 years is huge. He lost 4 of them but atleast he went. the other guy got sent home early 8 times out of 14 years. going home early is not an acheivement. Getting their 10 times speaks volumes.[/QUOTE]
Yea man.. the guy that got send home just has bad teams.. but whenever he makes the finals, he puts on a show on the biggest stage and wins it. That's amazing and clutch.

The other guy just happens to have a stacked team. However, when the team wants to rely on him on the big stage, he chokes, losing in the finals 4 times.

It should be clear who the better player is..

Change "ability" to "necessity" and we can get a worthwhile discussion going.

[QUOTE=gengiskhan.
Kobe lost to Celtics the 2006 NBA Finals despite being season MVP.![/QUOTE]
:roll:

[QUOTE=Doranku]You give up any chance you have at being GOAT when you get outscored by Jason Terry in the finals during your prime.[/QUOTE]
Memories:lol

[QUOTE=kuniva_dAMiGhTy]He will NEVER be GOAT, though. As [B]Johnny Sack from the Sopranos[/B] once said, '[I]That ship... has sailed.' [/I][/QUOTE]
I read Johnny Sack from Sponge Bob :hammerhead:

[QUOTE=Kobr]Change "ability" to "necessity" and we can get a worthwhile discussion going.[/QUOTE]
:roll: :roll:

Failures don't necessarily hurt your legacy in the same way than lack of success does.
If you judge Kareem and Jordan by their own standards of greatness, they had tons of failures. Kareem won only 1 title in a decade where he was clearly the best in the league. Jordan failed time and time again in the playoffs before he won his first title. He only reached his first Finals at 28.
But they accumulated so much success in the end that their legacy changed.

[QUOTE=BoutPractice]Failures don't necessarily hurt your legacy in the same way than lack of success does.
If you judge Kareem and Jordan by their own standards of greatness, they had tons of failures. Kareem won only 1 title in a decade where he was clearly the best in the league. Jordan failed time and time again in the playoffs before he won his first title. He only reached his first Finals at 28.
But they accumulated so much success in the end that their legacy changed.[/QUOTE]

Yeah, but even when Jordan failed teamwise he put up memorable - in a positive way - games and series. I bet more people know Jordan dropping 63 in The Garden than Jordan losing that series in a lopsided fashion.

The feel was that the Bulls despite Jordan playing great.

Lebron's failures were personal failures, failures when his teams were heavily favoured, when nobody suspected his teams to lose. The teams lost and the blame went to James, because he was playing below his standards. Something Jordan, in the collective basketball memory, hasn't done, although he had some not so great outings obviously.

For Lebron it's his teams lost, because he didn't play as great as he should have and that sentiment is true imo.

[QUOTE=Overdrive]Yeah, but even when Jordan failed teamwise he put up memorable - in a positive way - games and series. I bet more people know Jordan dropping 63 in The Garden than Jordan losing that series in a lopsided fashion.

The feel was that the Bulls despite Jordan playing great.

Lebron's failures were personal failures, failures when his teams were heavily favoured, when nobody suspected his teams to lose. The teams lost and the blame went to James, because he was playing below his standards. Something Jordan, in the collective basketball memory, hasn't done, although he had some not so great outings obviously.

[B]For Lebron it's his teams lost, because he didn't play as great as he should have and that sentiment is true imo[/B].[/QUOTE]

In two series yeah...but he had many great ones too.

2011 when he was terrible and 2010 when people say he quit...but he isn't the only one to of done that.

The fact his team were favoured in the first place was a joke considering the rosters he had in Cleveland.

[QUOTE=ripthekik]One of them (LeBron) has a bad team, can't fault him.. but as long as he gets the opportunity, he performs and delivers.

the other (Kobe).. is a choker, but always gets to the finals because he has a stacked team.[/QUOTE]
Exactly. Perfect assessment. :applause:

[QUOTE=All Net]In two series yeah...but he had many great ones too.

2011 when he was terrible and 2010 when people say he quit...but he isn't the only one to of done that.

The fact his team were favoured in the first place was a joke considering the rosters he had in Cleveland.[/QUOTE]

As I said earlier in this thread, his 2007 finals are a positive. That playoff run was ****ing awesome and that's why his teams were favoured the years after. He reached the finals already with this team, they added few veterans, had 60 win seasons and then lost every year. Personally I thought they'd make it in '10 and I don't follow the us-media as much as americans (can) do. So it was more or less my personal feeling and not a media driven expectation. For me the Cavs were the favourites in the east and I think they would've won versus the Lakers.

Once I started lurking here and saw pics, i found out espn and other outlets expected the Cavs to win more or less unanimously it proved my point.

In '11 they were the favourites and it was reasonable. They needed time to gel, but they dominated the east playoffs.
I called Dallas winning by the CFs, if they don't meet the Bulls. People on my "home blacktop" called me insane by that time. I didn't expect James to choke that much, but I thought Dallas was a bad mismatch for the Heat(Chandler and Marion as D-players and a real scoring threat in the front court - I felt Bosh was underutilized throughout the season - capable guards etcetc..).

Media again expected the Heat to win.
So twice the were favourites, doesn't matter how bad the team makeup was, and lost.

In '09 he couldn't do anything. The Magic had a once in a lifetime series. Although the Cavs were expected to win their weakness against inside-out teams were exposed quickly and no blame was put on Lebron. That series basically was a "young Jordan losing effort", comparable to the aforementioned Celtics series.

TBH I can't remember what happened '08 so I doubt it was that bad.