Printable View
[QUOTE=Michael_Wilbon]No question. Prime Kobe absolutely would've won a championship with that Cleveland team. LeBron is great..and maybe he could do it now with that team, but at the time he didn't have it in him. He has Wade and Bosh now though so he doesn't have to fear failure anymore.[/QUOTE]
this.
/thread.
[QUOTE=Ne 1]2007 Detroit Pistons (53-29)
2009 Atlanta Hawks (47-35)
2008 Washington Wizards (43-39)
2010 Chicago Bulls (41-41)
2007 Washington Wizards (41-41)
2007 New Jersey Nets (41-41)
2009 Detroit Pistons (39-43)
There isn't an all star in this league incapable of duplicating Lebron's "success" with the Cavs. Those teams dont even make the playoffs in the West.
Any superstar in league history when paired with a top defensive, top rebounding and top three point shooting supporting cast is capable of duplicating what Lebron accomplished given the competition with the Cavs. People with agendas love to make his teammates look worse than they are just to prop up LeBron. The team, especially in 2010 perfectly complimented his talents or any superstar wing for that matter.
Who knows how well that 2010 Cavs team does if LeBron doesn't visibly quit and pout vs Boston. Even Delonte West played better than LeBron during that game 5 vs Boston where he gave up on his team before the series was over. We'll never know now what their capabilities were. Did LeBron have a superstar co-runner with the Cavs? No, but he had well built teams with appropriate pieces that fit LeBron's game, strength and playing stye and the worst part about that whole debacle was that years Cavs team actually did have a legit shot at winning a championship. If the Cavs could have gotten past the East they would have had the eventual champion Lakers, who they swept during the regular season. They would have faced Orlando again that year but this time with Shaq who was their to slow down and cause problems for Dwight. The Cavs also had home court advantage for two straight 60+ win seasons and couldn't get to the Finals once and got bounced in the semis as a 1st seed. A team that is capable of winning 60+ wins two seasons in a row isn't capable of winning a title? I think not. I don't see how Lebron didn't have a " good enough team" when it was HIM who played poorly game 5 vs Boston and not his teammates. James was 3-14 in that game while looking absolutely lost on both sides of the court while a shell of himself Shaq was 7-11 and Parker was 5-8.
But anyway the point is James didn't compete to the best of his abilities. [B][B]Look at the 2012 Heat. They were worse talent wise[/B][/B] and health wise than the 2011 Heat and IMO faced a superior Finals opponent, and a better Conference Finals opponent. What was the difference? LeBron tried. In 2011, he gave up in the Finals and went into full Casper mode.[/QUOTE]
:facepalm
Kobe was just statpadding circa 08-08. Cavs are a lottery team with him.
kobe has proven that he needs superstars to carry him or he wud threaten to force his way out...all well documented
[QUOTE=HomieWeMajor]Kobe was just statpadding circa 08-08. Cavs are a lottery team with him.[/QUOTE]
Eastern conference they may have squeaked in.
[QUOTE=bluechox2]kobe has proven that he needs superstars to carry him or he wud threaten to force his way out...all well documented[/QUOTE]
He needs Phil even more!
um, prime Kobe would lead that team to the best record in the NBA and win the finals against the Spurs. Lebron choked against them, something Kobe will never do, fail under the pressure.
Kobe choked away a 4 peat against a vastly inferior team because of his selfish play.
[QUOTE=6 for 24]Mr. Kenneth:
I admit to not follow your terminology very well, but it is clear you know much more about this great game than I do.
Here in Mozambique, we have a single court where we play our own version of basketball. Like your game, we have a pole. Although instead of using a hoop, we tie someone to the pole, usually a thief or an adulterer. And instead of hoisting a ball into the hoop, we throw stones at the person until they are dead. So someone who can throw repeatedly with no moral concerns is most desired in our game. Since the games are so similar, I imagine this is true of your basketball as well.
Warmest regards,
Ayotunde Ndiaye[/QUOTE]
:roll: :applause: :bowdown:
kobe cant even will his team to the playoffs
[QUOTE=Xiao Yao You]Kobe choked away a 4 peat against a vastly inferior team because of his selfish play.[/QUOTE]
[SIZE="6"]so kids these days think the lakers won in 2003 and were on the verge of a 4peat against the pistons? Or they think the 2003 spurs were an inferior team[/SIZE]
:biggums:
Lebron was playing with 3 All-stars, one was a Hall of Famers in the East and choked up
For Kobe to win a chamionship, you need elite wing defenders that mask his taking plays off to conserve energy on defense.
And you need a skilled low post scorer / passer and rebounder to off set Kobe's gambles on shot selection offensively.
And you need coach who can manage his primadonna issues, and pull him back when he starts to go into KoMe mode and becomes overly self indulgent on offense.
No. Lebron is a better player than kobe and if he couldnt do it, no reason to think kobe could.
Yes, Kobe has the winner gene. Lebron doesn't. It's just that simple. Next question. :sleeping
I don't think any superstar could have won a championship with those cavaliers rosters.
Not even MJ.
if lebron couldnt do it then there is no chance that kobe could
[QUOTE=red1]if lebron couldnt do it then there is no chance that kobe could[/QUOTE]
Kobe wouldn't just give up like Lebron did against the Celtics
[QUOTE=longtime lurker]Kobe wouldn't just give up like Lebron did against the Celtics[/QUOTE]
no he'd get blown out by 40 in the finals :roll:
[QUOTE=longtime lurker]Kobe wouldn't just give up like Lebron did against the Celtics[/QUOTE]
I dont think he gave up at all. He had that bad game 5 but game 6 you could tell he was giving his best effort even though they lost. Celtics were just the better team since cleveland regressed defensively since they added shaq and antawn to the line-up.
[QUOTE=kennethgriffin][SIZE="6"]so kids these days think the lakers won in 2003 and were on the verge of a 4peat against the pistons? Or they think the 2003 spurs were an inferior team[/SIZE]
:biggums:[/QUOTE]
Not sure what kids think. But Kobe's selfish play cost them another ring that much is certain.
[QUOTE=I<3NBA]in Cleveland?
he is clearly better than Lebron James in the "willpower" department. so i'm assuming he could've just "willed" that team to a championship.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=kennethgriffin]kobe won a title with top 90-100 all time ranked pau gasoft as his 2nd best player in 2009
and no other player on the team had ever made an allstar team
prime kobe was alpha as f*CK
so to answer op... yes[/QUOTE]
[IMG]http://gyazo.com/f9a135caac5c055beacd7549c7129831.png[/IMG]
[QUOTE=Psycho]Yes, Kobe has the winner gene. Lebron doesn't. It's just that simple. Next question. :sleeping[/QUOTE]
So in the same year why couldn't he get out of the first round?
[QUOTE=KobeClutchAsFK]I don't think any superstar could have won a championship with those cavaliers rosters.
Not even MJ.[/QUOTE]
Why?
You don't think prime MJ could have won that boston series in 08? I'm confused as to why people think this.
The Cavs had the ball down 1 with like 1 minute left in game 7 with a much inferior version of Lebron compared to what he is now...which is still significantly behind peak MJ.
I don't know if they beat the Lakers in the finals, but a prime MJ led 08 Cavs team would have beaten the Celtics and would have been my pick to win the title.
[QUOTE=DMAVS41]Why?
You don't think prime MJ could have won that boston series in 08? I'm confused as to why people think this.
The Cavs had the ball down 1 with like 1 minute left in game 7 with a much inferior version of Lebron compared to what he is now...which is still significantly behind peak MJ.
I don't know if they beat the Lakers in the finals, but a prime MJ led 08 Cavs team would have beaten the Celtics and would have been my pick to win the title.[/QUOTE]
That '08 Celtics, for whatever reason, couldn't play a decent road game to save their lives the first 2 rounds of the playoffs. Remember, the 37-win Hawks took them to 7 games in the first round. Boston didn't get back to their 66-win regular season groove until the ECF, where they beat what was IMO the best Detroit team of the Wallace era, and then an even greater team in LA. Even if MJ would've led Cleveland past an unbelievably out-of-sync Boston team, there's no way he would've gotten past against far superiors teams in Detroit and LA. Not with this starting lineup:
Big Z
Ben Wallace
LeBron James
Wally Szcerbiak
Delonte West
Coach: Mike Brown
There's nothing close to resembling a star player here. MJ's the GOAT, but all of his championships came on teams with Top 3 talent, on top of being coached by the greatest. The '08 Cavaliers roster is a joke in comparison.
[QUOTE=Indian guy]MJ's the GOAT, but his championships came on teams with Top 3 talent every season[/QUOTE]
LOL, wut?
1991, 1992, and 1993 Bulls? Ummm, no.
[QUOTE=Indian guy]That '08 Celtics, for whatever reason, couldn't play a decent road game to save their lives the first 2 rounds of the playoffs. Remember, the 37-win Hawks took them to 7 games in the first round. Boston didn't get back to their 66-win regular season groove until the ECF, where they beat what was IMO the best Detroit team of the Wallace era, and then an even greater team in LA. Even if MJ would've led Cleveland past an unbelievably out-of-sync Boston team, there's no way he would've gotten past against far superiors teams in Detroit and LA. Not with this starting lineup:
Big Z
Ben Wallace
LeBron James
Wally Szcerbiak
Delonte West
Coach: Mike Brown
There's nothing close to resembling a star player here. MJ's the GOAT, but his championships came on teams with Top 3 talent every season, on top of being coached by the greatest. The '08 Cavaliers roster is a joke in comparison.[/QUOTE]
I agree, but so what?
The fact remains that the sorry Cavs team with an inferior Lebron came literally within a couple plays of winning that series. Not to mention Lebron played like complete ass the first few games of the series.
Peak MJ gets that done. If we are living in a world where the difference between peak MJ and 08 Lebron isn't enough to get that series...then, well...comparing players is pointless.
You can't say they had no chance...when they almost won the damn series. LOL
[QUOTE=DMAVS41]You can't say they had no chance...when they almost won the damn series. LOL[/quote]
Uhh, yeah, they might have beaten an out-of-whack Boston team, sure, but there's nothing to indicate they would've beaten Detroit or LA after that. How does that qualify as a chance?
[QUOTE=Indian guy]Uhh, yeah, they might have beaten an out-of-whack Boston team, sure, but there's nothing to indicate they would've beaten Detroit or LA after that. How does that qualify as a chance?[/QUOTE]
Teams get "out of wack". It happens, and not that rarely. There's no reason to assume Boston wouldn't be out of wack if it was Jordan instead of Lebron they were playing.
And Detroit was "out of wack" for like 3 straight ECF after their last Finals appearance. From 06-08, at some point in the ECF they just seemed to play like they didn't give a f*ck and wouldn't mind their season ending. They played with no passion, intensity, or sense of urgency. 04-05, completely different story. But 06-08, I think almost any team with a transcedent player beats them.
And the 08 Lakers weren't that great. Kobe isn't a great Finals performer, and that was everyone else's first Finals appearance.
I would say that would qualify as a chance.
And by the way, I don't think they would get past Boston either even though peak Jordan is considerably better then 08 Lebron. I think this is something that people don't like to accept, but sometimes great teams do play down to their competition and just don't have the same sense of urgency until its absolutely necessary. And this era's Celtics maybe more guilty of this then any team in history. But the fact that they have that mindset means Jordan would still have a legit shot, just like Lebron did.
We're just talking about 08 though. I think they'd have a much better chance in 2010 with a better Cavs team vs. a worse Celtics team.
[QUOTE=Indian guy]Uhh, yeah, they might have beaten an out-of-whack Boston team, sure, but there's nothing to indicate they would've beaten Detroit or LA after that. How does that qualify as a chance?[/QUOTE]
Because even an "out of whack" boston team was still better than the Pistons.
Considering the Cavs with again...an inferior Lebron beat the Pistons in 06...I see no reason to see why they wouldn't do it again in 08 with MJ.
Lakers would have been tough, but if Kobe struggled that much against the Celtics. WTF do you think he's going to do against peak MJ and a very good defensive team in the Cavs.
Certainly plausible....and certainly a chance.
[QUOTE=lpublic_enemyl]no he'd get blown out by 40 in the finals :roll:[/QUOTE]
Yes but he makes the finals :oldlol:
[QUOTE=red1]I dont think he gave up at all. He had that bad game 5 but game 6 you could tell he was giving his best effort even though they lost. Celtics were just the better team since cleveland regressed defensively since they added shaq and antawn to the line-up. [/QUOTE]
I was actually just doing some light trolling, but I remember elbow gate and Mo Williams was the only player still fighting in the end of game 6. I don't know if Kobe wins with this team but I think he'd would have made at least 1 finals. The East was laughably week
[QUOTE=DMAVS41]Because even an "out of whack" boston team was still better than the Pistons.[/quote]
Huh? Detroit's performance during the entirety of the '08 playoffs was far superior to what Boston showed in the first 2 rounds. They actually had a winning record on the road coming into the ECF, as opposed to Boston being 0-6, an unfathomable number for a dominant 66-win team. I don't think you're contemplating just how awful Boston's road play was the first 2 rounds of the playoffs. They were completely out of whack on the offensive end of the court. Averaging a pathetic 86 ppg on 42% shooting in those 6 losses. They were playing like a non-playoff team outside the Garden prior to the ECF. That all changed once they did get there. To base how an MJ-led Cleveland team would've fared against Detroit or LA based on their performance against Boston is asinine.
[quote]Considering the Cavs with again...an inferior Lebron beat the Pistons in 06[/quote]
Cleveland beat Detroit in [b]2007[/b], which was an off season for them. Only 53 wins in a sorry EC, as opposed to 59 in 2008 in a far superior EC, not to mention posting almost twice the SRS. There's no comparison. Cleveland wouldn't have had a prayer against the '08 Pistons. Just a far superior team compared to their '07 selves.
[quote]Lakers would have been tough, but if Kobe struggled that much against the Celtics.[/quote]
Huh? '08 Celtics are arguably the GOAT defense. Nothing an individual defender or an 11th-ranked Cleveland defense could've done that would compare. Mind you, given the offensive load MJ would'e been carrying on Cleveland, he wouldn't have checked Kobe much as it is.
[quote]Certainly plausible[/quote]
On what? A competitive series against a team that totally underachieved? Cleveland's 2nd best player was a 33 year old Ilgauskas and they had a negative SRS as a team for the season for crying out loud. NEGATIVE!! They were the definition of mediocrity and a sure fire 15-win team without LeBron's herculean 30/8/7/48%/29 PER season. If something in MJ's career suggested he was capable of leading a mediocre squad all the way, then maybe we could entertain this. But MJ's championships came on terrific teams with the GOAT coach. He might have made(assuming Boston sucked again) it to the ECF, but that would've been the extent of it.
You're being a complete dumbass here. I'm done.
:biggums: :facepalm One championship? Are you kidding me? One of the greatest players to ever play the game settling with anything other than a ring?, he would have carried that scrub ass team to multiple championships.
I diggity doubt it.
No chance in hell :oldlol: Nobody's winning with those Cavs teams. LeBron averaged just shy of 40 ppg in the '09 ECF and they still lost in 6 games
[QUOTE=kennethgriffin]kobe won a title with top 90-100 all time ranked pau gasoft as his 2nd best player in 2009
and no other player on the team had ever made an allstar team
prime kobe was alpha as f*CK
so to answer op... yes[/QUOTE]
what has this retard been up to? would've loved to see how epic his meltdown would be :roll: