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[QUOTE=ThaRegul8r]Didn't know Nash and Rose were in the category of players being discussed.
As they're not, it's irrelevant. I don't get why people bring lesser players into a discussion as if it's supposed to "prove" anything.[/QUOTE]
Did you read my post? It had nothing to do with using Nash nor Rose to compare to Lebron nor Hakeem.
[QUOTE=Quintilianus]He's a center, based on what he's doing and his abilities, he was a dominant force offensively. And still was best defensive player for x years in a row while doing that.
If anything, Hakeem is underrated, he has a case for being the best center ever[/QUOTE]
Guards usually have a larger offensive impact than centers. The opposite is true on defense.
[QUOTE=Rubio2Gasol]Shaq was more dominant. In his prime you had to foul him to stop him. However I think people sometimes overlook the fact that this means there was a clear cut way to defend him.
I don't mind people saying Shaq was a better offensive player, because he was just so.......dominant. No one could guard him. But there is a very easy argument that could be made for Hakeem on the basis of versatility and a lack of clear exploitable weaknesses.[/QUOTE]
Shaq was definitely a better offensive player than Hakeem.
Lets see.....
[QUOTE=Miserio]The 'best player' part is plain stupid it depends on the players from that particular era. If LeBron played in the 90s he wouldn't be the best player. He would be the runner up to the-one-we-all-know.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Haks]:facepalm same can be said for Lebron if he was in that era[/QUOTE]
Why are you so sure? How do you know? That is just as much of an empty opinion as me saying Lebron would OWN the league in the 90s....
Lebron has not played in that era.... so we dont know how he would be there and what type of team he would have...
Hakeem has not played in this era either.... so we dont know how he would be here either...
What we do know is that Hakeem played in the 90s with Jordan in his prime, where Hakeem didnt win a championship and wasnt the best player in the NBA before or after Jordans "vacation"....
[QUOTE=DatAsh]Shaq was definitely a better offensive player than Hakeem.[/QUOTE]
Make your case...outside of what I already admitted.
@Quintilianus:
I hope you realise why i dont reply to you.... "Lebron choker", "dickrider","he is not most dominant player" together with your lack of knowledge and zero facts, objectivity makes your agenda extremly clear..... its like talking to a wall.... you dont like Lebron, you dont wish for him to be anything in this world.... thats fine... you made your case clear....
[QUOTE=DatAsh]Shaq was definitely a better offensive player than Hakeem.[/QUOTE]
He probably was but it wasn't by a whole lot. I don't know why u used the word definitely
[QUOTE=Raymone]What has Hakeem ever done that LeBron hasn't?[/QUOTE]
Pretty much everything for an all-time great. Lebron on the other hand has taken a shortcut for everything is his career. I still debate which is more appropriate LeShortcut or LeQueen. Both apply so well. Lol at the stats debate. At the end of the day, swept first time around, choked second time around, paired with 2 other top 5 players at their position to get the ring for a third time with extreme ref bias in a shortened season in a weakened league. Not to mention all the choke jobs in the post-seasons for the best team in the East - per ESPN d1ckriding. The favorites to WIN it all - every single year. That's what happens when you're the King of the regular season but the B1tch of the postseason. Lol at the fanbase. Grasping for notoriety.
LeBron 2012: 30/10/6, 50% FG, 57.6% TS, 30.3 PER vs. Knicks (5th best defensive team, vs. Pacers ( 9th best defensive team), vs. Celtics ( no.1 defensive team) vs. Thunder (2nd best offensive team).
[QUOTE=Quintilianus]He's a center, based on what he's doing and his abilities, he was a dominant force offensively. And still was best defensive player for x years in a row while doing that.
If anything, Hakeem is underrated, he has a case for being the best center ever[/QUOTE]
Hakeem's O compared to other PF/C >>> LeBron's O compared to Melo/Durant.
Hakeem is a better offensive player than LeBron individually. LeBron's vision might put him above Hakeem though.
Hakeem has a case of being the greatest two way player of all times. MJ is usually up there also.
[QUOTE=PickernRoller]Pretty much everything for an all-time great. Lebron on the other hand has taken a shortcut for everything is his career. I still debate which is more appropiate Leshortcut or LeQueen. Both apply so well.[/QUOTE]
4 MVP, and 2x Finals MVP > 1 MVP and 2x Finals MVP. The Blazers traded Clyde Drexler to Houston in the 1995 NBA Season. Before Dexter was traded to the Rockets, they were barely a playoffs team.
It's definitely debatable if LeBron wins another ring this year, but there are two things LeBron will never have on Hakeem.
1. LeBron will never match Hakeem's defensive impact.
and
2. LeBron will never get as much credit for his championships as Hakeem. However, if LeBron ends up with 4+ titles, that won't really matter.
[QUOTE=Lebron23]4 MVP, and 2x Finals MVP > 1 MVP and 2x Finals MVP. The Blazers traded Clyde Drexler to Houston in the 1995 NBA Season. Before Dexter was traded to the Rockets, they were barely a playoffs team.[/QUOTE]
[IMG]http://www.waitingfornextyear.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/07/the-Decision-LeBron-James-ESPN.png[/IMG]
We were all witness...........not 2, not 3, not 4.....chokes in the NBA finals. :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:
And people can still root for the guy in a fanatical fashion. I lost my respect for Lebron and his accomplishments a long time ago. He's a good player no doubt - but definitely not All-time great caliber. Better thank the league - very kind it has been.
Pauk won't stop till LeBron is the GOAT
[QUOTE=PickernRoller][IMG]http://www.waitingfornextyear.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/07/the-Decision-LeBron-James-ESPN.png[/IMG]
We were all witness...........not 2, not 3, not 4.....chokes in the NBA finals. :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:
And people can still root for the guy in a fanatical fashion. I lost my respect for Lebron and his accomplishments a long time ago. He's a good player no doubt - but definitely not All-time great caliber. Better thank the league - very kind it has been.[/QUOTE]
Top 8 player of all time if the Heats wins the NBA Championship in June.
You guys are being way to quick to dismiss Hakeem's title runs. Look at his team in 94 and look at his numbers in 95
[QUOTE=LikeABosh]Yes, Lebron goes past Hakeem easily if the he wins the Finals MVP this season. You care way too much about his legacy though[/QUOTE]
lebron will never win dpoy :banana:
[QUOTE=Lebron23]Top 8 player of all time if the Heats wins the NBA Championship in June.[/QUOTE]
In your list - :roll: :roll: who gives a shit about your list? Yep.
[QUOTE=Lebron23]The Blazers traded Clyde Drexler to Houston in the 1995 NBA Season. Before Dexter was traded to the Rockets, they were barely a playoffs team.[/QUOTE]
Anyway:
Hakeem before Drexler, 1994 NBA Champion/Finals MVP against NYK aka Patrick Ewing. Next year, with Drexler, 1995 NBA Champion/Finals MVP against ORL aka Shaq the Diesel. 1986 NBA Finals appearance against Larry Bird - six game series. You have my permission to shoot yourself into oblivion. Never ever to return again.
[QUOTE=chazzy]You guys are being way to quick to dismiss Hakeem's title runs. Look at his team in 94 and look at his numbers in 95[/QUOTE]
Do you think Hakeem's title runs was way better than Kobe's title runs in 2009 and 2010?
[QUOTE=PickernRoller]In your list - :roll: :roll: who gives a shit about your list? Yep.
Anyway:
Hakeem before Drexler, 1994 NBA Champion/Finals MVP against NYK aka Patrick Ewing. Next year, with Drexler, 1995 NBA Champion/Finals MVP against ORL aka Shaq the Diesel. 1986 NBA Finals appearance against Larry Bird - six game series. You have my permission to shoot yourself into oblivion. Never ever to return again.[/QUOTE]
Durant in 2012 > Ewing in 1995. LBJ beat his greatest rival in the NBA Finals.
[QUOTE=Lebron23]Do you rank Hakeem's championship runs over Kobe's title runs in 2009 and 2010?[/QUOTE]
Most definitely.
Lebron had a fantastic run last year - but if you understand what Hakeem had to do on both ends for that team - their really aren't many seasons or playoff runs you can put ahead of them.
[QUOTE=Lebron23]Durant in 2012 > Ewing in 1995. LBJ beat his greatest rival in the NBA Finals.[/QUOTE]
According to the LeQueen fanbase and the fervor in their tongues LeQueen's main rival will always be Kobe Bryant - despite the fact that he's already a past-prime athlete leagues and miles better than LeQueen. Lebron can only aspire but he will never reach. Lol at Durant at this stage in his career been better than Ewing. Laughable. He did not beat Durant - Mike Miller, Mario Chalmers, Shame Battier and the refs in game 2 beat Durant. 30.6 pts on 54.8%. Yep he was beaten.
[QUOTE=pauk]List of all their accolades:
..........................LeBron.................Hakeem..............
ROTY.....................Yes.......................No................
Best Player...........4+ years................2 years.............
All-Star MVP.............2.........................0..................
POTM.....................25........................5..................
[/QUOTE]
I see you still haven't learned or gotten over your old ways, despite claiming many times you're not the same poster you use to be.
Assuming Lebron wins the MVP, Title, and Finals MVP again this season which I think he will.
I can only think of 5 players worthy being listed ahead of him.
Those players are
MJ
KAJ
Russell
Magic
Shaq
[QUOTE=KG215]I see you still haven't learned or gotten over your old ways, despite claiming many times you're not the same poster you use to be.[/QUOTE]
Did he really claimed so? :lol :lol :lol
-----------
Alts showing up - posters are desperate. :oldlol:
Assuming Miami wins another title, and he gets his regular season + Finals MVP, Bron will be right there w/ Hakeem, Duncan, and Kobe. Shaq too. His accomplishments would be far too great to keep him outta the top 10.
[QUOTE=bdreason]It's definitely debatable if LeBron wins another ring this year, but there are two things LeBron will never have on Hakeem.
1. LeBron will never match Hakeem's defensive impact.
and
2. LeBron will never get as much credit for his championships as Hakeem. However, if LeBron ends up with 4+ titles, that won't really matter.[/QUOTE]
Those are some stupid reasons that people selectively pull out when they throw objectivity in the garbage.
[QUOTE=kuniva_dAMiGhTy]Assuming Miami wins another title, and he gets his regular season + Finals MVP, Bron will be right there w/ Hakeem, Duncan, and Kobe. Shaq too. His accomplishments would be far too great to keep him outta the top 10.[/QUOTE]
Pretty much this ... :pimp:
[quote=fpliii]1st All-NBA - 90s centers are far more competitive than current forwards; in addition, Hakeem had to fight for only one spot on the first team (as opposed to the 2 forward spots)[/quote]
Sure... but, you are forgetting context here....
The times Lebron got in the 1st all-NBA team he was clearly the best SF... he would have got in there all his 7 times battling only one spot aswell... and even then the competition would be brutal (first it was T-Mac, Pierce then Carmelo, Durant)
The times Lebron got in the 1st All-Defensive team he was clearly the best defensive SF.... he would have got in there all his 5 times battling only one spot aswell....
[quote]ROTY - I don't know why you'd mention this[/quote]
Because i dropped all the NBA accolades.... This one in particular is not so extremly useless, it shows that a player came in to the league with a better bang than any other rookie at his time....
In Hakeems rookie year it was Michael Jordan.... What Jordan did to Hakeem there is what Lebron did to Carmelo....
[quote]All-Star MVP - same[/quote]
I agree with this one, its kindof useless... but like i said, i dropped all the accolades... and there is many more... like milestones/records perhaps...
[quote]POTM - there are two awards now, while there was only one for most (all?) of Hakeem's career[/quote]
Yes... but this excuse would only work if Lebron maybe would have not had all those POTM awards if there was only one.... in reality Lebron would have got all of those or most of those 25 POTMs (certainly more than Hakeems 5) anyways because he was the best player/MVP each of those months..... the only benefit of the POTM in Lebrons era was the opposite player, the Wesern Conference Player, only that player wouldnt had won it if it was only one POTM...... it also explains why Lebron has 3 more MVPs and has been a better player in his era for longer....
Having more POTM than somebody else in theory is kindof useless.... but should not be disregarded because this tells a very important story...
Because the POTM is the same criteria as MVP & given out by the same establishment, a player who had many more POTM is a player who has been the MVP of the month (which is not a very short time) many more times...... a player who has won the most POTM in a season usually ends up with the MVP aswell......... a player who has won the more POTMs for his career has therefore probably ended up with more MVPs aswell......
In Lebrons case this story is very correct....
...and if that player (Lebron) has many more MVPs that means that player has been a MORE VALUABLE PLAYER many more years & months than the player compared to (Hakeem)........ which hints at the probability of Lebron being a more impactful player than Hakeem was.... at least for a longer time.... for you to win the MVP your productiveness/individual talent/skill needs to translate to more TEAM SUCCESS/WINS than anybody else.....
MVP.... that sure is a very important award....
Who did Lebron James compete with for his MVPs? Who did Lebron James compete with for his 1st All D team selections? Who won his championships with less help? Nuff said.
Funny that everything Lebron achieved, rings, FMVPs, were done with 2 prime stars.
That's why even if this year he gets FMVP, and ties Hakeem for same accomplishments, he is still be low Hakeem. Doing it with a stacked team is not impressive. That's all.
[QUOTE=ripthekik]Funny that everything Lebron achieved, rings, FMVPs, were done with 2 prime stars.
That's why even if this year he gets FMVP, and ties Hakeem for same accomplishments, he is still be low Hakeem. Doing it with a stacked team is not impressive. That's all.[/QUOTE]
Then anything Kobe has ever done is not impressive.
[QUOTE=Electric Slide]Then anything Kobe has ever done is not impressive.[/QUOTE]
Kobe did it with just Pau. If you're one of those dumbasses that started watching basketball was 2011, I'll tell you now, Bynum was not a huge factor.
Lebron needed 2 all star starters in a weak era. Not impressive.
[QUOTE=Kovach]The most fundamentally sound center of all time whose arsenal of moves is unrivaled by pretty much anyone not named MJ is worse than a forward with the aesthetics of a tractor? Sure.[/QUOTE]
I love this post.
[QUOTE=pauk]after Jordans "vacation"....[/QUOTE]
This needs to stop being posted.
[QUOTE=ripthekik]Kobe did it with just Pau. If you're one of those dumbasses that started watching basketball was 2011, I'll tell you now, Bynum was not a huge factor.
Lebron needed 2 all star starters in a weak era. Not impressive.[/QUOTE]
Kobe was shooting 40% in the Finals though. Clearly he didn't do it on his own. A 6/24 shooting performance in the Finals-clinching game 7 vs. LeBron's triple double to end the 2012 Finals? Which was more impressive. No doubt LeBron has a better team, but he's also been a vastly superior player when it matters.
[QUOTE=ripthekik]Kobe did it with just Pau. If you're one of those dumbasses that started watching basketball was 2011, I'll tell you now, Bynum was not a huge factor.
Lebron needed 2 all star starters in a weak era. Not impressive.[/QUOTE]
Who had a more stacked and better team than the Lakers? Nobody. It is no different than the Heat. The Lakers were by far the most stacked team in the NBA and nobody came close. Bynum wasn't great then, but Odom was.
You want to discredit Lebron. Do the same with Kobe.
[QUOTE=2010splash]Kobe was shooting 40% in the Finals though. Clearly he didn't do it on his own. A 6/24 shooting performance in the Finals-clinching game 7 vs. LeBron's triple double to end the 2012 Finals? Which was more impressive. No doubt LeBron has a better team, but he's also been a vastly superior player when it matters.[/QUOTE]
You're using 1 game to determine it all? :rolleyes:
How about look at who they went through in their playoff?
Heat opponents: Knicks, Pacers, Boston, Thunder :oldlol:
[QUOTE=ripthekik]You're using 1 game to determine it all? :rolleyes:
How about look at who they went through in their playoff?
Heat opponents: Knicks, Pacers, Boston, Thunder :oldlol:[/QUOTE]
Thunder are no joke. Durant/Westbrook/Harden was the second best trio in the league. Team was sick loaded.
Compared to the 50-win Celtics? Much better.
[QUOTE=2010splash]Thunder are no joke. Durant/Westbrook/Harden was the second best trio in the league. Team was sick loaded.
Compared to the 50-win Celtics? Much better.[/QUOTE]
Youngest team in the league? What was their average age.. 23?
I havent checked this stat.. but seems like they're the youngest team ever in the finals..
So congrats Heat, you beat the youngest team ever in the finals. :applause: