high school teachers can be so awful. i love the fact that when i started college, my instructors were like, everything u learned in high school and below is wrong.
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high school teachers can be so awful. i love the fact that when i started college, my instructors were like, everything u learned in high school and below is wrong.
My history professor in college was hilarious. Took as many shots as he could at high school curricula. He had this running gag where he referred to everyone's high school history teacher as "Coach Johnson" :roll:
[QUOTE=D-Rose]I'm sure there is more context to it. But from watching the video, the kid expresses discontent at learning from packets and from his teacher not getting up and teaching the class. I like that. Although, I agree that perhaps his manner of solving this wasn't the best but he's pretty young so not surprising.[/QUOTE]
The problem is we hear the kid vent but the teacher never got a chance to explain her side of her story. It's as if we saw a video of a teacher lecturing a kid with lots of passion, we would say she's a good teacher and kids are not into education these days.
Not saying you're wrong. But just saying there's lot more to the whole story and it's unfair to say the teacher is not enthusiastic about teaching without hearing her side of the story.
I completely feel where this kid is coming from. When I graduated back in 2010, while looking for a job in my field (engineering), I was able to network with a principal at a school who gave me a job as a tutor. He started me off at $21/hr and I worked 8 hours/day. I was helping out the math department and it really sucked.
One thing I can say, I hate standardized testing. I suppose it serves it purpose for kids that learn just to get by, but for those students that want to be challenged, it is really tough to get them engaged. I few of the students I tutored weren't idiots, math was just challenging to them, however, I made every effort to teach them things the correct way. Unfortunately in this school, they had this TI-89's that did the work for them, so most students would get their answers this way, but had no idea how the calculator arrived at this conclusion. I brought this up to the math department chair, telling her how stupid it was to teach kids to only use a calculator to get to the answer, but she got after me for trying to teach kids how to actually arrive at an answer without the calculator.
Obviously, these super high tech calculator have a good purpose and I definitely could have used one in college, rather than doing things by hand that I already knew how to do. However, in this school they were driven by standardized scores (like I am sure most schools are) and they just tried to teach these kids the simplest way to get an answer.
Quite frankly, after that experience, I could never be a teacher. I tried my best to be creative with these kids and I made an effort to teach them without using a calculator. Unfortunately, many of them were used to the ****ing calculator that they couldn't even do simple division at times! I always engaged my groups. I can't imagine having to do teaching full time. Dealing with the administration that doesn't always support you is also bullshit. Unfortunately, at the end, it's all about those numbers, which is why I think many teachers lose their passion.
There will always be teachers that are bad apples, but many of my friends that went into the education field, actually really care about their kids. I am sure at some point, most of them will be worn down by the restrictions administration imposes and most will lose their passion for teaching.
[QUOTE=Chrono90]Does anyone here agree with me that the kid went over the line and he should be disciplined?[/QUOTE]
Oh absolutely. But his points remain valid.
[QUOTE=Timmy D for MVP]Oh absolutely. But his points remain valid.[/QUOTE]
Then why should he be disciplined? Students not being able to challenge teachers is the reason they don't give a fvck.
[QUOTE=tpols]Then why should he be disciplined? Students not being able to challenge teachers is the reason they don't give a fvck.[/QUOTE]
He coyodve had a debate with the teacher about it, not storm off the classroom.
[QUOTE=Bandito]He coyodve had a debate with the teacher about it, not storm off the classroom.[/QUOTE]
She told him to leave...
[QUOTE=tpols]Then why should he be disciplined? Students not being able to challenge teachers is the reason they don't give a fvck.[/QUOTE]
It's not the teacher's fault and it's not the fault of the kid either. The problem lies in the curriculum: teachers are supposed to follow it to the tee, which means they can't teach creatively or they will get fired, and since they can't teach it creatively, the kids can't engage it creatively, hence why they get bored.
The main job of the teacher is to teach the curriculum and keep the students in line with it through discipline.
The true purpose of the curriculum is not to teach, but to control the behaviors of the student.
[QUOTE=IamRAMBO24]It's not the teacher's fault and it's not the fault of the kid either. The problem lies in the curriculum: teachers are supposed to follow it to the tee, which means they can't teach creatively or they will get fired, and since they can't teach it creatively, the kids can't engage it creatively, hence why they get bored.
The main job of the teacher is to teach the curriculum and keep the students in line with it through discipline.
The true purpose of the curriculum is not to teach, but to control the behaviors of the student.[/QUOTE]
Thats all well and good.. but Im just saying if the kid was saying something true without being offensive(calling her a bitch, throwing something etc.) then why should he be punished for speaking the truth?
[QUOTE=tpols]Then why should he be disciplined? Students not being able to challenge teachers is the reason they don't give a fvck.[/QUOTE]
[B][COLOR="Navy"]Exactly why I would never teach again. Most people have no idea what it entails to teach.
But to have a child/teenager feel they have the right to challenge an adult is where society has failed. When good teachers have to face children/teenagers that dont know boundaries the system is failing. And I am not even saying bad teachers because there are plenty of them. But the lack of respect by children/teenagers for their parents let alone a teacher is a deterrent. Then you meet the children/teenagers parents and you realize they have the lack of self control, self discipline and self respect as their child/teenager.
I would never ever suggest anyone to become a teacher unless they can go to a quality school to teach.
As far as the video its possible that teacher is there for the paycheck or they were worn down.
Like Gatorkid said I loved teaching and coaching in Japan for the most part. [/COLOR][/B]
[QUOTE=Rameek][B][COLOR="Navy"]Exactly why I would never teach again. Most people have no idea what it entails to teach.
But to have a child/teenager feel they have the right to challenge an adult is where society has failed. When good teachers have to face children/teenagers that dont know boundaries the system is failing. And I am not even saying bad teachers because there are plenty of them. But the lack of respect by children/teenagers for their parents let alone a teacher is a deterrent. Then you meet the children/teenagers parents and you realize they have the lack of self control, self discipline and self respect as their child/teenager.
I would never ever suggest anyone to become a teacher unless they can go to a quality school to teach.
As far as the video its possible that teacher is there for the paycheck or they were worn down.
Like Gatorkid said I loved teaching and coaching in Japan for the most part. [/COLOR][/B][/QUOTE]
The irony is strict discipline generates rebellion. It is ok to be strict, but you have to find a balance. Some kids struggle in school because the curriculum is boring and too rigid, for example, as stated above, they don't teach you math anymore; they tell you to use a calculator and memorize the answers. I'm sorry to say, but memorizing a bunch of sh*t and repeating it on a test is boring as f*ck, and I can understand why kids become disinterested in school. It doesn't make kids who feel this way bad students; it's not a one way street. In China, they firmly believe if a kid fails, it is the fault of the teacher; in America, we always blame the kids, but noone ever criticizes the curriculum and the method of teaching.
[QUOTE=Rameek][B][COLOR="Navy"]Exactly why I would never teach again. Most people have no idea what it entails to teach.
But to have a child/teenager feel they have the right to challenge an adult is where society has failed. When good teachers have to face children/teenagers that dont know boundaries the system is failing. And I am not even saying bad teachers because there are plenty of them. But the lack of respect by children/teenagers for their parents let alone a teacher is a deterrent. Then you meet the children/teenagers parents and you realize they have the lack of self control, self discipline and self respect as their child/teenager.
I would never ever suggest anyone to become a teacher unless they can go to a quality school to teach.
As far as the video its possible that teacher is there for the paycheck or they were worn down.
Like Gatorkid said I loved teaching and coaching in Japan for the most part. [/COLOR][/B][/QUOTE]
Yea.. the reason kids dont respect teachers is because.. are teachers really experts in their topics? Do you need to be some sort of senior scientist to teach biology? Do you have to have a phd in cold war history to teach American History 2?
Nope. You dont really need shit. Just read from the book, make some powerpoints and make the kids mindlessly regurgitate it.
When I think of teaching I tihnk old type greek schools where a scholar would take a kid under his wing and inspire him to be great in whatever field. Scoietys to big and full of morons to do that now.. so nothing will change. The good students will always show an interest though so well still progress.
[QUOTE=tpols]Thats all well and good.. but Im just saying if the kid was saying something true without being offensive(calling her a bitch, throwing something etc.) then why should he be punished for speaking the truth?[/QUOTE]I feel you here. This is certainly a unique situation and the simple fact this kid's semi-outburst has led to discussions like this one all across the nation and/or world proves that sometimes challenging the status quo, even if it's at the wrong time and in the wrong place, can provide us an opportunity to think twice about what we're doing and why we're doing it.
That said, classrooms do tend to have rules that discourage misbehavior, dissent and a general lack of disrespect. In this particular case, I think it can be argued as to whether this student was breaking any rules. Then again, we'd probably also have to know what he did to earn his suggested removal from class in the first place.
Based on his rant alone though, I don't think this particular case would warrant any sort of punishment. Generally speaking though, I do not believe classrooms can afford to open the floor to any and all students to go on diatribes against the system whenever they personally feel it's prudent.
The kid in the video did nothing wrong (during the video)... Children should be able to challenge teachers (intellectually not physically). That is apart of true learning. When a teacher can put to rest the questions in a child's mind? then the child will begin to accept the knowledge being offered.
Some kids will call BS and a competent teacher should be able to handle those situations without simply throwing the kid out of class for questioning them. True learning is a process much deeper than simple [b]indoctrination[/b]..
school would be alot more stimulating if it wasnt simply indoctrination and teaching kids to 'pass the test' instead of teaching them how to think critically.
Ive done a small bit of teaching (ive mostly been in administration through my career) but I plan to do some teaching and I know I will need to be creative to get around the stiff curriculums and testing outlines that bog teachers down.
Teaching kids to learn how to "think" is the key. Teaching them to take pride in being able to think critically in all the things they do will help them be more curious in life and make better decisions for themselves in the future.
Some kids are really thirsty for that knowledge and they should have more opportunities to get it than they currently do
[QUOTE=Rasheed1]The kid in the video did nothing wrong (during the video)... Children should be able to challenge teachers (intellectually not physically). That is apart of true learning. When a teacher can put to rest the questions in a child's mind? then the child will begin to accept the knowledge being offered.
Some kids will call BS and a competent teacher should be able to handle those situations without simply throwing the kid out of class for questioning them. True learning is a process much deeper than simple [b]indoctrination[/b]..
school would be alot more stimulating if it wasnt simply indoctrination and teaching kids to 'pass the test' instead of teaching them how to think critically.
Ive done a small bit of teaching (ive mostly been in administration through my career) but I plan to do some teaching and I know I will need to be creative to get around the stiff curriculums and testing outlines that bog teachers down.
[B]Teaching kids to learn how to "think" is the key. Teaching them to take pride in being able to think critically in all the things they do will help them be more curious in life and make better decisions for themselves in the future.[/B]
Some kids are really thirsty for that knowledge and they should have more opportunities to get it than they currently do[/QUOTE]
If you can manage to do that without getting fired, then you will be one of those rare teachers a lot of kids credit for their success in life.
The above poster got in trouble for trying to teach a student how to arrive at a math answer rather than letting him take the shortcut with a calculator.
Sadly, the curriculum overburdens the teachers with materials which can stifle learning. Learning should be a slow process, but if too much material is being thrown at the students, there won't be any time to reflect on the material, hence why they are told to just memorize as fast as possible and pass it on a test.
[QUOTE=tpols]Yea.. the reason kids dont respect teachers is because.. are teachers really experts in their topics? Do you need to be some sort of senior scientist to teach biology? Do you have to have a phd in cold war history to teach American History 2?
Nope. You dont really need shit. Just read from the book, make some powerpoints and make the kids mindlessly regurgitate it.
When I think of teaching I tihnk old type greek schools where a scholar would take a kid under his wing and inspire him to be great in whatever field. Scoietys to big and full of morons to do that now.. so nothing will change. The good students will always show an interest though so well still progress.[/QUOTE]I cannot agree with you in this regard. While teachers are not required to hold Ph.D's, they [i]are[/i] required to be highly qualified in their given field. It doesn't mean they're geniuses, but it does usually mean they have more than enough knowledge on a given subject to educate high school level students and below.
I believe it wouldn't be completely unreasonable to expect students to respect teachers because most often teachers are folks who have put an inordinate amount of time and effort into finding ways to ensure those students are able to carve something worthwhile and useful out their lives. Does every teacher deserve blind respect? Clearly not. But I do believe it'd be silly to excuse a student's disrespect simply because a teacher does not hold a Ph.D.
[B][COLOR="Navy"]It's hard to teach children that lack self discipline and self control and understanding boundaries.
Children/Teenagers without these qualities but for the sake of argument can try to tell any teacher they dont want to learn x y z at a whim because its boring and unstimulating. Not everything is fun and exciting. There are things that are what they are.
Learning is applied knowledge. It does require some memorization but teachers are not teaching to entertain students. That requires time consuming planning that a teacher doesnt have the time in the day to for every lesson. No one is debating that students shouldnt be engaged.
Children/Teenagers have a rebellious nature that will go against anything they deem unworthy of their time no matter what a teacher does.
Again in the video had the teacher been a packet making sit down and used inappropriate language and crossed the line then she has opened up this behavior.
Again I site the type of rebellious nature that a teacher should not have to deal with.... This statement is the absolutely asinine (I am not saying you are or your opinion isnt valid)[/COLOR][/B]
[QUOTE]tpols: Yea.. the reason kids dont respect teachers is because.. are teachers really experts in their topics? Do you need to be some sort of senior scientist to teach biology? Do you have to have a phd in cold war history to teach American History 2?
Nope. You dont really need shit. Just read from the book, make some powerpoints and make the kids mindlessly regurgitate it.
[/QUOTE]
[B][COLOR="Navy"]These are the statements heard daily by a teacher from a child/teenager. The nerve of a child to question a teacher in such a manner is utterly disrespectful.
Everyone here has a style they want a teacher to present to make education work. And the ones that do not get that style then its there right to be rebellious?
As much as the school system has failed America so has the parents of children that believe a child/teenager gets to question an adult at every turn.
In what occupation can a subordinate question a supervisor or manager or president or owner of a company or establishment outright. What would the outcome be for that child/teenager/employee in the real world? [/COLOR][/B]
[QUOTE=Rameek][B][COLOR="Navy"]
In what occupation can a subordinate question a supervisor or manager or president or owner of a company or establishment outright. What would the outcome be for that child/teenager/employee in the real world? [/COLOR][/B][/QUOTE]
If you have a bad manager or boss who is a terrible decision maker doesnt get shit done right, etc. youre right you cant question him really. All you can do is do your work so well as to build a good rep/provide value and then rise up to a position where you can do something.. but then youll just have another guy ahead of you anyways.
Teachers you have a little more leeway.. they dont dictate your salary, and if you question them but study hard and get As, theres nothing they can really do to you. Im not saying you can be disrespectful, and this kid was approaching the boundary.. but you should be able to at least privately talk to the teacher about their methods.
And yes youre right, you can never question credentials, of course. Even if it may be true in some cases.
[QUOTE=tpols]If you have a bad manager or boss who is a terrible decision maker doesnt get shit done right, etc. youre right you cant question him really. All you can do is do your work so well as to build a good rep/provide value and then rise up to a position where you can do something.. but then youll just have another guy ahead of you anyways.
Teachers you have a little more leeway.. they dont dictate your salary, and if you question them but study hard and get As, theres nothing they can really do to you. Im not saying you can be disrespectful, and this kid was approaching the boundary.. but you should be able to at least privately talk to the teacher about their methods.
And yes youre right, you can never question credentials, of course. Even if it may be true in some cases.[/QUOTE]
[B][COLOR="Navy"]Agreed as a student you have more power to change what happens in the classroom but you dont have to challenge the teacher disrespectfully unless the teacher crosses the line. Students can go to parents and administration which is appropriate.
My problem always has been students think they are on equal footing with a teacher. This is what makes boundaries important. Children/Teenagers lack the self discipline, self control etc because they dont recognize they are not adults yet but they want to be treated with the same level as an adult. They are not adults they are not mature, knowledgeable, and wise enough for that equal status.
This is why I say parents have failed because children/teenagers dont respect that distinction.
As you said in the real world you would never behave in such a manner whether the teacher is right or wrong. But for some reason in our society starting with parents this line has been blurred.
If a teacher crosses those boundaries then they get what they deserve. But from my experience only paying students understand these boundaries or in the Asian countries. Not that children/teenagers dont challenge the system or the teachers and hold them accountable but in America too many children/teenagers try to think like adults and demand that respect and equal footing when it just isnt so.
For example I would never have my children in an environment where the teacher is not doing there job and students are disruptive in the classroom. [/COLOR][/B]
[B][COLOR="Navy"]In New York I had to spend the better part of a month or 2 setting up discipline and commanding and earning the respect of the students. This is the fault of our Society and parents. I have to motivate, discipline, make engaging lessons, teach children boundaries, teach respect, make sure they do homework, do well on standardize test, grade test, deal with home issues, hormonal changes etc etc....
I go to Japan I can just teach and deal with wayward outliers as the situation arises. Or paying students (students with tuition) I can just go teach etc etc
[/COLOR][/B]
[QUOTE=Rameek][B][COLOR="Navy"]In New York I had to spend the better part of a month or 2 setting up discipline and commanding and earning the respect of the students. This is the fault of our Society and parents. I have to motivate, discipline, make engaging lessons, teach children boundaries, teach respect, make sure they do homework, do well on standardize test, grade test, deal with home issues, hormonal changes etc etc....
I go to Japan I can just teach and deal with wayward outliers as the situation arises. Or paying students (students with tuition) I can just go teach etc etc
[/COLOR][/B][/QUOTE]
thats just the way it is here.. we should be past the point of complaining about it if you are teaching here..
commanding respect and teaching children boundaries is simply apart of the job.. it can be done, and it is done everyday by plenty of teachers
the part of a teacher's job (especially in bad neighborhoods) that is unfair imo is the trap that is set for teachers...
children are a product of their environments and school is only a portion of their environments... If teachers are to be held accountable by the state and by the school board for outcome of the children? then the teachers will need more resources, support from community, state, and school board.
You do a wonderful job teaching a child discipline and critical thinking during the school day, but if the child lives in a dysfunctional environment? then the kid simply goes home at night and has all your hard work undone by the dysfunctional forces that dominate his life.
it is unfair to have some of these AYP programs that put the onus on teachers to do the impossible while at the same time the state and the school board continues to cut the resources and play games with the school districts for profit and political purposes..
Its plain as day that the needs of the children do not come first, and that has to change if anything positive is going to happen in public education in this country. There are plenty of hard working teachers who can work with almost any kid if the teachers receive the kind of supports they need from the higher ups..
Without the support? its just a trap where the teachers are scapegoated for failing kids and a failing educational system.
[B][COLOR="Navy"]Sheed I wholeheartedly agree and I am not making excuses for terrible teachers but then have a small sliver of understanding what a good or normal teacher has to go through in a day. Low income or otherwise environment. People saying teachers get overpaid really? When you have to literally raise these children yourself for the few hours a day you are with them? I've got to teach children/teenagers values, self respect, motivate, self esteem, social norms (That is the parents job!) etc etc make test, grade test, give papers, grade papers, give quizes, grade quizes, prepare for standardized test, lesson plan, make sure its engaging and entertaining... To have to deal with lack of parental support or involvement until the child comes home to complain about the teacher or the lack of support and resources from the school system and administration.
I say hold bad teachers accountable but it isnt easy being a teacher. They are not overpaid.
I chose to give it up here in the States. [/COLOR][/B]
[quote]Teachers are generally overpaid anyway. $40,000-$100,000 to work 8 hours/day, 180 days a year?[/quote]
More like $40-60,000 to work 8 hours a day, then go home and grade and prepare for the next day's classes, all while taking care of their own kids.
And since most parents rely on the public school system to raise their kids, the job itself ends up being quite a bit more than merely "teaching."
"But they get the summer off." I won't say most, but many teachers have to supplement their incomes at least by working a lot of the summer. Many more have to take on extra grading or teaching opportunities besides their main day job.
Teachers should be paid enough to live comfortably. Any given teacher you pick at random probably works harder than you and makes less. Not that a person should be paid strictly according to "how hard they work," but people who perform a valuable service to society should be able to afford to feed a family.
[QUOTE=Rasheed1]the part of a teacher's job (especially in bad neighborhoods) that is unfair imo is the trap that is set for teachers...
children are a product of their environments and school is only a portion of their environments... If teachers are to be held accountable by the state and by the school board for outcome of the children? then the teachers will need more resources, support from community, state, and school board.
You do a wonderful job teaching a child discipline and critical thinking during the school day, but if the child lives in a dysfunctional environment? then the kid simply goes home at night and has all your hard work undone by the dysfunctional forces that dominate his life.
it is unfair to have some of these AYP programs that put the onus on teachers to do the impossible while at the same time the state and the school board continues to cut the resources and play games with the school districts for profit and political purposes..
Its plain as day that the needs of the children do not come first, and that has to change if anything positive is going to happen in public education in this country. There are plenty of hard working teachers who can work with almost any kid if the teachers receive the kind of supports they need from the higher ups..
Without the support? its just a trap where the teachers are scapegoated for failing kids and a failing educational system.[/QUOTE]Good stuff. I agree with you here. As a teacher, I actually like the idea of being held accountable. However, I'm not entirely convinced measuring a teacher's worth and pay based upon their student's quiz and test scores would be the way to go.
As you said, a student's ability to learn and progress is only partly reliant upon a teacher's in-class ability. Home environment, parental guidance, and socio-economic level are just a few of the other major factors that can heavily affect a student's ability to pass a test or improve upon their test knowledge over a given period of time.
I feel as though the last thing we'd want to do is turn student grades and test results into a means of competition amongst teachers. If we feel educators are teaching to the test [i]now[/i], just wait to see what happens if their student's test scores begin affecting their salary.
But that's pretty much the system we're headed toward right now (if we're not there already). Immersion, critical thought, and understanding are all secondary qualities to teaching right now, only coming after the priorities of unstoppable forward progress (comprehension notwithstanding), benchmark meeting, and solid standardized test scores that never stop improving year by year by year.
[QUOTE=Clifton]More like $40-60,000 to work 8 hours a day, then go home and grade and prepare for the next day's classes, all while taking care of their own kids.
And since most parents rely on the public school system to raise their kids, the job itself ends up being quite a bit more than merely "teaching."
"But they get the summer off." I won't say most, but many teachers have to supplement their incomes at least by working a lot of the summer. Many more have to take on extra grading or teaching opportunities besides their main day job.
Teachers should be paid enough to live comfortably. Any given teacher you pick at random probably works harder than you and makes less. Not that a person should be paid strictly according to "how hard they work," but people who perform a valuable service to society should be able to afford to feed a family.[/QUOTE]Truth. Moreover, in Michigan teachers are required to continuously pursue higher education. Even though I earned my Education degree and own a teacher's certificate, I'm given a window of time for which I must return to college and take at least 18 more credits worth of classes just to keep my certificate active. Then, obviously, after I finish those 18 credits, I'll be met with another deadline shortly thereafter.
[QUOTE=Clifton]More like $40-60,000 to work 8 hours a day, then go home and grade and prepare for the next day's classes, all while taking care of their own kids.
And since most parents rely on the public school system to raise their kids, the job itself ends up being quite a bit more than merely "teaching."
"But they get the summer off." I won't say most, but many teachers have to supplement their incomes at least by working a lot of the summer. Many more have to take on extra grading or teaching opportunities besides their main day job.
Teachers should be paid enough to live comfortably. Any given teacher you pick at random probably works harder than you and makes less. Not that a person should be paid strictly according to "how hard they work," but people who perform a valuable service to society should be able to afford to feed a family.[/QUOTE]
I think it depends on the teacher to be honest.. Like my mom is a teacher of special ed kindergarden kids. Kids who curse all day, fight, come from bad environments.. call her TAs bitches, spit, throw things. Pretty much the worst thing you can imagine.:oldlol:
And her job is to try and haul them in from their bad habits.. thats a whole other level of teaching right there.
Then you have my high school spanish teacher, who was spanish himself knew the language since a little kid who dealt with us being pretty respectable older kids who were going to a good HS and cared at least a bit about material.. All he had to do was teach for half hour out the book and make us do exercises, check our HW, do tests/quizes. Not that crazy of reposnibility. He used to joke with us all the time and was a decent teacher, but its clear he didnt have some crazy workload.
3 80 minute teaching blocks and 1 80 minute block to work in his office.. 730-3ish 5 days a week with tenure only 5 years away to be locked into a good salary and full benfits for life?
Id take that in a heart beat right now. Hes one of the lucky teachers though.
[QUOTE=Rake2204]Truth. Moreover, in Michigan teachers are required to continuously pursue higher education. Even though I earned my Education degree and own a teacher's certificate, I'm given a window of time for which I must return to college and take at least 18 more credits worth of classes just to keep my certificate active. Then, obviously, after I finish those 18 credits, I'll be met with another deadline shortly thereafter.[/QUOTE]
[B][COLOR="Navy"]In most states this is common practice.[/COLOR][/B]
[quote]Truth. Moreover, in Michigan teachers are required to continuously pursue higher education. Even though I earned my Education degree and own a teacher's certificate, I'm given a window of time for which I must return to college and take at least 18 more credits worth of classes just to keep my certificate active. Then, obviously, after I finish those 18 credits, I'll be met with another deadline shortly thereafter.[/quote]
Something that's very strange to me is how increasingly hard it is to become a public school teacher, while at the same time, high school graduates are seriously dumb, undereducated people. I include myself here. When I graduated high school, I knew nothing. And I was one of the smart ones, and my school was good. But I had class-class-test mentality, and at the end of it I basically knew no history, science, or literature that happened before the Alabama Bus Boycott. I didn't know a foreign language and I didn't understand my own. And I had zero moral or character formation other than whatever you get in team sports.
And it's like... ok... all my teachers over age 40 have Master's degrees. Great. That doesn't help me understand the world around me and those who dwell in it, at all. But if I have to match Charlemagne with four multiple choice options on a test, I have excellent test-taking strategies to help me do that.
[QUOTE=Clifton]Something that's very strange to me is how increasingly hard it is to become a public school teacher, while at the same time, high school graduates are seriously dumb, undereducated people. I include myself here. When I graduated high school, I knew nothing. And I was one of the smart ones, and my school was good. But I had class-class-test mentality, and at the end of it I basically knew no history, science, or literature that happened before the Alabama Bus Boycott. I didn't know a foreign language and I didn't understand my own. And I had zero moral or character formation other than whatever you get in team sports.
And it's like... ok... all my teachers over age 40 have Master's degrees. Great. That doesn't help me understand the world around me and those who dwell in it, at all. But if I have to match Charlemagne with four multiple choice options on a test, I have excellent test-taking strategies to help me do that.[/QUOTE]That about sums it up. There's a lot of folks out there desperately trying to quantify all aspects of education but in their haste, they're quantifying but a small, small portion of what matters and treating it as if it's [i]all[/i] that matters.
How do you quantify intriguing discussion? How do you measure whether a teacher is able to bring out the best in a student? What test is provided to show how a student's moralistic outlook was positively affected by a life-changing teacher role model? Instead, we test to see if everyone understands the Pythagorean Theorem and we judge an educator's worth based upon the results.
While we're at it, we insist teachers go back and take some classes, [i]any[/i] classes, so they can eventually add what is oftentimes a worthless title to their name (many of the classes offered for teachers to re-new their certificates are generalized busy-work classes with no all-encompassing direction).
As I said before, this is it:
"What was educationally significant and hard to measure has been replaced by what is educationally insignificant and easy to measure. So now we measure how well we taught what isn't worth learning." - Arthur Costa
Before my current job, I spent a few months at an inner city elementary school in south St. Petersburg (very rough part of town). My biggest problems were the following: I came from a small, rural town in Ohio, and I had zero clue on how to deal with these kids, knowledge of where they came from, and understanding of how to deal with these situations, none of which I could EVER possibly relate to. I never recieved any proper training. New inner city teachers NEED intensive training They provided me a mentor teacher, gave me the curriculum, I was told that it was "gonna be tough" and that's about it.
Admittedly, these kids ate me alive. Most of my time was spent dealing with behavior issues, there was zero parental involvement (many of them had disconnected phones), and I left each day feeling frustrated beyond belief. My days were long, as I started at around 7 am and got home at about 6-6:30. Other teachers were routinely cussed out. That never happened to me, but fights, kids running out of class, and destroying classroom materials was a common occurance.
Through it all, I was unsure about my own approach. Too much yelling--they tune you out. Keeping an steady tone--sign of weaknesses. It takes a really special individual to teach at these schools. 2 months into the school year, I was placed on administrative leave.
I now know why they recruited me out of state. People currently in the district don't want these jobs. Very few can hack it.
Best part is the kid was probably doing that to fck with his teacher and get a laugh/attention from his classmates. I seriously doubt that kid is all rah rah about education and was just being a brat.
I don't know if there overpaid/underpaid but I have no idea why some people would want to deal with 14-17 year old kids. I had a few shitty teachers, but when I think about it, the mental strength some of these people have not to just unload and beat the piss outta some of these kids is crazy.
Maybe why you don't get highly qualified and educated people in HS. They'd get a handful of kids that wanted to actually learn, handful who didn't give a shit, and a handful that wanted to make there life miserable. Just makes sense to teach college instead of HS, atleast that's the way I'd look at it if I was some really smart educated guy.
[QUOTE=Rake2204]Good stuff. I agree with you here. As a teacher, I actually like the idea of being held accountable. However, I'm not entirely convinced measuring a teacher's worth and pay based upon their student's quiz and test scores would be the way to go.
As you said, a student's ability to learn and progress is only partly reliant upon a teacher's in-class ability. Home environment, parental guidance, and socio-economic level are just a few of the other major factors that can heavily affect a student's ability to pass a test or improve upon their test knowledge over a given period of time.
I feel as though the last thing we'd want to do is turn student grades and test results into a means of competition amongst teachers. If we feel educators are teaching to the test [i]now[/i], just wait to see what happens if their student's test scores begin affecting their salary.
But that's pretty much the system we're headed toward right now (if we're not there already). Immersion, critical thought, and understanding are all secondary qualities to teaching right now, only coming after the priorities of unstoppable forward progress (comprehension notwithstanding), benchmark meeting, and solid standardized test scores that never stop improving year by year by year.
[B]Truth. Moreover, in Michigan teachers are required to continuously pursue higher education. Even though I earned my Education degree and own a teacher's certificate, I'm given a window of time for which I must return to college and take at least 18 more credits worth of classes just to keep my certificate active. Then, obviously, after I finish those 18 credits, I'll be met with another deadline shortly thereafter[/B].[/QUOTE]
This is required in most states and is why the majority of people get a Master's degree. Once you have your Master's you are not required to take any more credits. So you mine as well get the degree if you have to take classes anyway.
[QUOTE=tpols]Then why should he be disciplined? Students not being able to challenge teachers is the reason they don't give a fvck.[/QUOTE]
He was disrupting class.
Nobody posted the update video?
[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bKjqjpePhTc[/url]