peak Bird vs peak Lebron

[QUOTE=NattyPButter]This thread is so dumb. The media and almost everyone is talking about Lebron possibly becoming one of the greatest. Guess who holds that spot? MJ not Larry Bird. Who do they compare Lebron to? MJ not Larry Bird. Who would most ppl pick to build a team around between Lebron and Bird? Most ppl and even old time players would pick Lebron not Bird. The Lebron hate has blinded many on ish.[/QUOTE]

You are so ignorant. Why do you think the media compares him to MJ?

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$:facepalm

[QUOTE=SHAQisGOAT][B]:facepalm

I don't hate Lebron, in fact I admire his game. Just because you're an ignorant young kid doesn't mean the thread is dumb or something.

If anything today's overhypeness of everything has blinded you. What you say about Lebron it was Kobe some years ago, that's how it is, think they would be talking about the greatness of a retired player? That's not the way you make money.

Most people who know their shit would pick prime Bird over prime Lebron, even though it's close.[/B][/QUOTE]

I'm a 30+ year old grown ass man not some teenage boy. To call Lebron overhype shows your ignorance and bias towards.

[QUOTE=NattyPButter]I'm a 30+ year old grown ass man not some teenage boy. To call Lebron overhype shows your ignorance and bias towards.[/QUOTE]

When you;re comparing him to MJ, and bypassing all the ATG players in the past, then hell yeah, he's overhyped.

The guy has 1 ring, and joined a superteam to get it. You are ignorant.

[QUOTE=ShaqAttack3234]You do realize that Bird was called the best player ever by countless players, coaches and writers during the 80's, right? And the media hyping up the current best player is nothing new. I remember Mark Jackson talking about Kobe being better than MJ in 2006, Greg Anthony saying the same thing in 2008, and a variety of others.

But it sounds like you let the media do your thinking for you, particularly when it's convenient, so I don't know why I'm even bothering.[/QUOTE]

can't claim Jordan the best when he had to get the merchandise to prove it first:banghead: are u ppl serious or just plain dumb?

[QUOTE=NattyPButter]This thread is so dumb. The media and almost everyone is talking about Lebron possibly becoming one of the greatest. Guess who holds that spot? MJ not Larry Bird. Who do they compare Lebron to? MJ not Larry Bird. Who would most ppl pick to build a team around between Lebron and Bird? Most ppl and even old time players would pick Lebron not Bird. The Lebron hate has blinded many on ish.[/QUOTE]

It's fine to say LeBron's better than Bird. Just don't justify it with stupid BS like "he's a better passer & rebounder".

The media comparing LeBron & Jordan doesn't automatically mean LeBron is either the best or 2nd best player of all time. You don't hear the media talking about Kareem in that regard but he's still better than LeBron at this moment in time.

[QUOTE=tikay0]When you;re comparing him to MJ, and bypassing all the ATG players in the past, then hell yeah, he's overhyped.

The guy has 1 ring, and joined a superteam to get it. You are ignorant.[/QUOTE]

you need to improve your reading comprehension. It's not me doing the comparison. My post straight said media and old time players:banghead:

[QUOTE=NattyPButter]can't claim Jordan the best when he had to get the merchandise to prove it first:banghead: are u ppl serious or just plain dumb?[/QUOTE]

This is your idea of the English language and you're calling us stupid? :oldlol: And why bother responding to my post if you're not going to address any of my points?

[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ooEELfpn2C8[/url]

Now Stop with the Lebron is an overrated passer.. He is one of if not the best Passing none PG of all time. One thing that all the people who play with Lebron say he is gets the ball to U so fast and right in your shooting pocket which gives the shooter the extra half second time to release shot. Beside's the Right pass he also makes the special pass as seen in this video which is not even of the past couple seasons.

[QUOTE=Kingwillball][url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ooEELfpn2C8[/url]

Now Stop with the Lebron is an overrated passer.. He is one of if not the best Passing none PG of all time. One thing that all the people who play with Lebron say he is gets the ball to U so fast and right in your shooting pocket which gives the shooter the extra half second time to release shot. Beside's the Right pass he also makes the special pass as seen in this video which is not even of the past couple seasons.[/QUOTE]


Said he was a great passer but if you say better than Bird as far as that, to me that's overrating him as a passer.

Again, 4 videos adding up to like 30 minutes of different footage, dude played in the 80s, with plenty of passes Lebron never made. Just the 1st video shows you how great he was, full-court passes with such precision, really fast, great length, even from below the backcourt which is extremely difficult, that's a QB arm. Then you see the touch passes, the catch-n-shoot passes, the flashy yet "necessary" passes, left handed passes, crazy passes before you even see it coming. Again if you saw Bird play considerably you'll never say Lebron's a better passer.

[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iTI-Cmkp87A[/url]
[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9o66NdFDHEQ[/url]
[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5gqDadqF3Ns[/url]
[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AbFNQoY8RFk[/url]

[QUOTE=SHAQisGOAT][B]2:41 of QB-like passes:[/B] [url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iTI-Cmkp87A[/url]
[B]The speed, precision and length are crazy, show me Lebron doing those, Bird was a quarterback out there.[/B]
[B]
Even Magic amazed with Bird's passing:[/B] [url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9o66NdFDHEQ[/url]
[B]Show me Lebron doing some of those touch passes, touch catch-n-pass assists, some of those unbelievably flashy yet necessary passes, some of those where you don't see nothing happening then the ball hits the right guy on the spot.[/B]
[B]
15 minutes footage, blows everything by Lebron out of the water: [/B][url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5gqDadqF3Ns[/url]

[B]"Larry Bird's the greatest passing forward in the history of the nba. There's no 2nd place, there's no 3rd place, just others recieving votes.": [/B][url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AbFNQoY8RFk[/url]


[B]All of those videos combine for over 30 minutes of unreal passing footage, from a guy who played back in the 80s. Lebron can't really **** with that and that 10 minute video doesn't cut it.[/B]

[B]
Lebron's a great passer but seriously, only somebody who didn't watch Bird think LBJ's a better passer.

Testament to that is the fact that their passing numbers are quite similar and Bird handled the ball way less, never really played PG like Lebron does, never was that ball dominant also.

Plus the rules and strategies help Lebron a lot. Look at all the 3pt shooters he had around over the years, lots of them, Bird had like Ainge only. With Lebron's passing ability, will and athleticism it's easy to drive and dish, doesn't take all that much passing skills. Those 3pt shooters also spread the floor so less crowded to make passes inside or to drive. There's also rules like defensive 3 seconds in the paint and so on, less physicality. Assists are also given like free candy nowadays.
Bird wasn't getting the type of easy assists that you dribble for 22 seconds then make a pass to a 3pt shooter at the last moment or things of that nature. Or looking away to a spot where there's no one after the pass is completed to make it look like a no-look pass or something, he had real flash that but used it if necessary.[/B][/QUOTE]
Just stop it. Lebron has made long passes too.
Idiots like you think athleticism isn't part of the game of basketball.
I have no problem if you say that bird did more with less(one of the reasons i like bird) but to say that lebron hasn't made the passes bird made or to say that lebron passes don't count because he is most athletic just shows how dumb your argument is. Go watch batsmen in Cricket if all you want is timing and skill and no athleticism. [B]Talking about athleticism as a minus point in a sports like basketball is just retarded. [/B]
Show me a pass that bird made which you think lebron hasn't made. i will show you a very similar pass.
I don't even argue with people who say that they would take bird over lebron as it is too close to call but as a passer lebron is better even though by a very little margin and it is very clear to anyone who watched them both without any bias.
Watch this video: [url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KT-zhe-5ORA[/url]
Tell me which pass bird made that he hasn't made and i will show that pass too in case it is not in that video.

[QUOTE=ShaqAttack3234]This is your idea of the English language and you're calling us stupid? :oldlol: And why bother responding to my post if you're not going to address any of my points?[/QUOTE]

I did address it by saying you can't call Jordan the best when he needed the merchandise (rings) first to prove it. Also lets act like Jordan wasn't just starting his career while Bird on almost on his way out. Your other posts were just wasn't worth answering. Here's why...Past players are already saying Lebron is the best or will be the best player to step on the court. It's not the media that is doing all the talking...it's past players also. I'm done no point and continue arguing with blindness and hateful ppl.

[QUOTE=NattyPButter]I did address it by saying you can't call Jordan the best when he needed the merchandise (rings) first to prove it. Also lets act like Jordan wasn't just starting his career while Bird on almost on his way out. Your other posts were just wasn't worth answering. Here's why...Past players are already saying Lebron is the best or will be the best player to step on the court. It's not the media that is doing all the talking...it's past players also. I'm done no point and continue arguing with blindness and hateful ppl.[/QUOTE]

I think like 2-3 players said Lebron would be the best or become the best.

Take a poll with every legend that's ever played in the NBA, and it'll look something like, 300 to 15 that say MJ will never be surpassed by Lebron.

It's just a bigger headline when someone says Lebron is and will be the better player at the end of the day.

[QUOTE=Kingwillball]Bottom line one on one Lebron would blow by Bird to the basket for layups and dunks [/QUOTE]

[IMG]http://a.espncdn.com/photo/2012/1001/nba_g_james_gb2_576.jpg[/IMG]

:roll:

Don't be foolish. Bird would abuse Lebron one on one

[QUOTE=SHAQisGOAT]Said he was a great passer but if you say better than Bird as far as that, to me that's overrating him as a passer.

Again, 4 videos adding up to like 30 minutes of different footage, dude played in the 80s, with plenty of passes Lebron never made. Just the 1st video shows you how great he was, full-court passes with such precision, really fast, great length, even from below the backcourt which is extremely difficult, that's a QB arm. Then you see the touch passes, the catch-n-shoot passes, the flashy yet "necessary" passes, left handed passes, crazy passes before you even see it coming. Again if you saw Bird play considerably you'll never say Lebron's a better passer.

[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iTI-Cmkp87A[/url]
[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9o66NdFDHEQ[/url]
[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5gqDadqF3Ns[/url]
[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AbFNQoY8RFk[/url][/QUOTE]


I saw Bird play and he was also a great passer but Lebron can make any pass on the court and if Lebron was a QB as far as Velocity he would be John Elway As his passes have more zip than anybody especially cross court.Oh and Lebron can throw a perfect full court pass with touch also..
[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pdKMCp_SwZM[/url]

I'll say once again;
Bird is the better passer. LeBron is the better playmaker.
There is a considerable difference.

[QUOTE=Rose'sACL]Just stop it. Lebron has made long passes too.
Idiots like you think athleticism isn't part of the game of basketball.
I have no problem if you say that bird did more with less(one of the reasons i like bird) but to say that lebron hasn't made the passes bird made or to say that lebron passes don't count because he is most athletic just shows how dumb your argument is. Go watch batsmen in Cricket if all you want is timing and skill and no athleticism. Talking about athleticism as a minus point in a sports like basketball is just retarded.
Show me a pass that bird made which you think lebron hasn't made. i will show you a very similar pass.
I don't even argue with people who say that they would take bird over lebron as it is too close to call but as a passer lebron is better even though by a very little margin and it is very clear to anyone who watched them both without any bias.[/QUOTE]


[B]So I'm the idiot? You're the one misquoting, I've never said athleticism isn't part of the game lmfao.
Yea you don't show any bias at all, and I'm pretty sure you've watched both :rolleyes: Anyone who knows their shit can clearly tell Bird's a better passer.

You say much but show nothing

Again 2:41 minutes of amazing full-court passes, with terrific precision, really fast, plenty of them from below the backcourt. That's a QB playing basketball. [/B]
[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iTI-Cmkp87A[/url]
[B]Show me the same from Lebron.[/B]

[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9o66NdFDHEQ[/url]
[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AbFNQoY8RFk[/url]
[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AbFNQoY8RFk[/url]
[B]Show me some of those touch passes, slap passes, assists quickly after getting the ball, touch assists off of rebounds, behind the back from far away going through like 2/3 players, behind the back right after you get the pass, getting the ball just to throw behind the back getting the assist a split second after, full court bounce passes with tremendous precision, assists while sitting down, what about that one in part 3 at 2:57 with the left hand Lebron trying that the ball would be in the 3rd row.

30+ minutes footage of amazing passes, dude played in the 80s, a 30+ video of Lebron passing the ball with his best passes wouldn't hold a candle to all of that. Those 5 min, 10 min, highlights videos with Lebron's passing can't **** with that, plenty of passes he hasn't made.

Show me then... You can't, I've watched plenty of Lebron and saw all of those highlights videos posted here, before, and more, and he's a great passer but not quite like Bird.

On the other hand I can show you plenty of assists of Lebron dribbling up the clock and at the end making an easy pass to a shooter, looking away to where's no one after the pass is completed to make it seem like a no-look pass, plenty of driving and dishing which requires skill but not all that.
You can't show me that from Bird, he wasn't the main ball-handler, he didn't dribble up the clock, he made quick plays and passes not wasting motion, lots of assists right after he catched the ball, he made it extremely flashy if/when necessary, he had like Ainge as a great 3pt shooter only in his career.[/B]

[QUOTE=aburre21]
Bird was not a better passer than LeBron, it's that simple. And I don't believe he was a better rebounder either. Rebounding is all about effort. When LeBron puts the effort into it like he did in the 2012 playoffs he can rebound with the best of them, and that included many offensive rebounds and finishes.
[/QUOTE]
So one playoff run where he put forth the effort means he was a better rebounder?

LeBron in the 2012 playoffs averaged 9.7 RPG and had a TRB% of 13.8%. The 9.7 RPG would rank 7th in Bird's career, and the 13.8% would rank 6th. LeBron's does have a 14.1% to his credit in 2009. That'd still rank 6th in Bird's career.

As for the regular season? LeBron's career averages are 7.3 RPG and 10.8% TRB%; Bird's career averages were 10.0 RPG and 14.5%.

[QUOTE=Kingwillball]I saw Bird play and he was also a great passer but Lebron can make any pass on the court and if Lebron was a QB as far as Velocity he would be John Elway As his passes have more zip than anybody especially cross court.Oh and Lebron can throw a perfect full court pass with touch also..
[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pdKMCp_SwZM[/url][/QUOTE]


Showed you a video with 2:41 of footage with full-court QB like passes from a dude who played in the 80s... Best you can do is one play that doesn't even compete with the best I've shown you? :oldlol:

Seriously pretty much all of the passes in the video I posted shit all over that (only one) play.

Lmao Bird would've thrown a much better pass than that in that situation with only one hand, heck with the left hand only.

[QUOTE=NattyPButter]I did address it by saying you can't call Jordan the best when he needed the merchandise (rings) first to prove it. Also lets act like Jordan wasn't just starting his career while Bird on almost on his way out. Your other posts were just wasn't worth answering. Here's why...Past players are already saying Lebron is the best or will be the best player to step on the court. It's not the media that is doing all the talking...it's past players also. I'm done no point and continue arguing with blindness and hateful ppl.[/QUOTE]

First of all, I never stated who I thought was the best player ever in my post. More importantly, yes I can call Jordan the best if I feel he was the best player.

Past players were also saying Kobe was or will be better than Jordan. Did you agree with that? People say a lot of things when a player is at the top of their games, and then years later, the perception changes. For example, during Shaq's prime, many people, including quite a few coaches and players were calling him the best big man ever, and how many people do you hear say that 10-15 years later?

I don't hate Lebron. I think he's an incredible player, and historically dominant. I just don't have a short memory and overreact to how well he's playing now at the expense of past greats.

[QUOTE=KG215]So one playoff run where he put forth the effort means he was a better rebounder?

LeBron in the 2012 playoffs averaged 9.7 RPG and had a TRB% of 13.8%. The 9.7 RPG would rank 7th in Bird's career, and the 13.8% would rank 6th. LeBron's does have a 14.1% to his credit in 2009. That'd still rank 6th in Bird's career.

As for the regular season? LeBron's career averages are 7.3 RPG and 10.8% TRB%; Bird's career averages were 10.0 RPG and 14.5%.[/QUOTE]

And that's before considering the teams they were on. It's a lot different putting up rebounding numbers when your frontcourt players are Robert Parish, Kevin McHale and Bill Walton, as Bird's were during the 1986 title run when he averaged 9.3 rpg(12.1 TRB%), or Parish, Cedric Maxwell and McHale as they were during the 1981 championship run when Bird averaged 14 rpg(17.6 TRB%), as well as the '84 run when he averaged 11 rpg(15 TRB%)

A LOT different than putting up rebounding numbers with Bosh, Battier, Joel Anthony and Udonis Haslem as your frontcourt players.

[QUOTE=Odinn]I'll say once again;
Bird is the better passer. LeBron is the better playmaker.
There is a considerable difference.[/QUOTE]

that's a part of passing



Passing encompasses vision, anticipation(seeing the play before it happens and knowing where your teammates are), and playmaking



Lebron is great at every single one of these categories. Dude anticipates like no other player and the game and he always knows where his shooters and everyone else is. Nobody is gonna just leave their man open, you have to runs sets or put pressure on the defense to get open looks and find the person who is open which is playmaking. And he almost always throws an accurate pass that allows his teammates to catch and shoot or finish




Yall dudes are clowns. Larry Bird was not a better passer than LeBron by any stretch of the imagination. Clueless ****s :facepalm

The term "it's not even close" is getting tiring on here, quick.

Either way, it's pretty damn close. Not much that separates them in terms of impact, except with the pinch bias from certain posters here.

[QUOTE=SHAQisGOAT][B]2:41 of QB-like passes:[/B] [url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iTI-Cmkp87A[/url]
[B]The speed, precision and length are crazy, show me Lebron doing those, Bird was a quarterback out there.[/B]
[B]
Even Magic amazed with Bird's passing:[/B] [url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9o66NdFDHEQ[/url]
[B]Show me Lebron doing some of those touch passes, touch catch-n-pass assists, some of those unbelievably flashy yet necessary passes, some of those where you don't see nothing happening then the ball hits the right guy on the spot.[/B]
[B]
15 minutes footage, blows everything by Lebron out of the water: [/B][url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5gqDadqF3Ns[/url]

[B]"Larry Bird's the greatest passing forward in the history of the nba. There's no 2nd place, there's no 3rd place, just others recieving votes.": [/B][url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AbFNQoY8RFk[/url]

[B]All of those videos combine for over 30 minutes of unreal passing footage, from a guy who played back in the 80s. Lebron can't really **** with that and that 10 minute video doesn't cut it.[/B]

[B]
Lebron's a great passer but seriously, only somebody who didn't watch Bird think LBJ's a better passer.

Testament to that is the fact that their passing numbers are quite similar and Bird handled the ball way less, never really played PG like Lebron does, never was that ball dominant also.

Plus the rules and strategies help Lebron a lot. Look at all the 3pt shooters he had around over the years, lots of them, Bird had like Ainge only. With Lebron's passing ability, will and athleticism it's easy to drive and dish, doesn't take all that much passing skills. Those 3pt shooters also spread the floor so less crowded to make passes inside or to drive. There's also rules like defensive 3 seconds in the paint and so on, less physicality. Assists are also given like free candy nowadays.
Bird wasn't getting the type of easy assists that you dribble for 22 seconds then make a pass to a 3pt shooter at the last moment or things of that nature. Or looking away to a spot where there's no one after the pass is completed to make it look like a no-look pass or something, he had real flash that but used it if necessary.[/B][/QUOTE]

Annndddd thats the thread.

[QUOTE=SHAQisGOAT][B]So I'm the idiot? You're the one misquoting, I've never said athleticism isn't part of the game lmfao.
Yea you don't show any bias at all, and I'm pretty sure you've watched both :rolleyes: Anyone who knows their shit can clearly tell Bird's a better passer.

You say much but show nothing

Again 2:41 minutes of amazing full-court passes, with terrific precision, really fast, plenty of them from below the backcourt. That's a QB playing basketball. [/B]
[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iTI-Cmkp87A[/url]
[B]Show me the same from Lebron.[/B]

[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9o66NdFDHEQ[/url]
[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AbFNQoY8RFk[/url]
[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AbFNQoY8RFk[/url]
[B]Show me some of those touch passes, slap passes, assists quickly after getting the ball, touch assists off of rebounds, behind the back from far away going through like 2/3 players, behind the back right after you get the pass, getting the ball just to throw behind the back getting the assist a split second after, full court bounce passes with tremendous precision, assists while sitting down, what about that one in part 3 at 2:57 with the left hand Lebron trying that the ball would be in the 3rd row.

30+ minutes footage of amazing passes, dude played in the 80s, a 30+ video of Lebron passing the ball with his best passes wouldn't hold a candle to all of that. Those 5 min, 10 min, highlights videos with Lebron's passing can't **** with that, plenty of passes he hasn't made.

Show me then... You can't, I've watched plenty of Lebron and saw all of those highlights videos posted here, before, and more, and he's a great passer but not quite like Bird.

On the other hand I can show you plenty of assists of Lebron dribbling up the clock and at the end making an easy pass to a shooter, looking away to where's no one after the pass is completed to make it seem like a no-look pass, plenty of driving and dishing which requires skill but not all that.
You can't show me that from Bird, he wasn't the main ball-handler, he didn't dribble up the clock, he made quick plays and passes not wasting motion, lots of assists right after he catched the ball, he made it extremely flashy if/when necessary, he had like Ainge as a great 3pt shooter only in his career.[/B][/QUOTE]


/THREAD.

Birds peak was higher but has LeBron reached his peak yet?

[QUOTE=aburre21]Yall dudes are clowns. Larry Bird was not a better passer than LeBron by any stretch of the imagination. Clueless ****s :facepalm[/QUOTE]
By any stretch of the imagination? So, in your mind, it's not even kind of close?

I think this has become the thing on ISH that gets on my nerves the most. One person picks their side, starts to argue, then goes far enough to say things like "by any stretch of the imagination" or "it's not even close" in arguments when is very, VERY close. I mean, at the absolute worst, even if you believe the answer is LeBron, there's no way you can pretend it's not close and expect people to take you seriously.

[QUOTE=1987_Lakers]You will say anything to hype those mid 90's Bulls teams.[/QUOTE]

True, it doesn't even need hype either.

They were easily one, if not the best dynasty, ever.

[QUOTE=miles berg]Birds peak was higher but has LeBron reached his peak yet?[/QUOTE]

Why do people keep saying this? Lebron's been in the league for 10 years already. He's peaking as we speak. :facepalm

[QUOTE=KG215]By any stretch of the imagination? So, in your mind, it's not even kind of close?

I think this has become the thing on ISH that gets on my nerves the most. One person picks their side, starts to argue, then goes far enough to say things like "by any stretch of the imagination" or "it's not even close" in arguments when is very, VERY close. I mean, at the absolute worst, even if you believe the answer is LeBron, there's no way you can pretend it's not close and expect people to take you seriously.[/QUOTE]

Yeah, I addressed that in my first post in this thread too. :oldlol: @ any of this not being close (unless it's obvious that it is not close). Stanning to another degree.

[QUOTE=miles berg]Birds peak was higher but has LeBron reached his peak yet?[/QUOTE]
It's hard to say with any absolute certainty, because other all-time greats have peaked around 29-32 years old, but LeBron is at that age where players reach their peak. I mean he could get better, it's not out of the question; but there's also a possibility this is the best version of LeBron.

not even close...............

Bird is over LeBron forever

[QUOTE=KG215]It's hard to say with any absolute certainty, because other all-time greats have peaked around 29-32 years old, but LeBron is at that age where players reach their peak. I mean he could get better, it's not out of the question; but there's also a possibility this is the best version of LeBron.[/QUOTE]

Lebron came into the league as a HS player, and relies mainly on his athleticism. More wear and tear on his body from the start. Yes, he has the best PEDs money can buy, but honestly, his numbers aren't getting better than they currently are. He might be able to be more effective in the post, maybe, but I don't see it.

If I'm starting a franchise, I choose Bird over any other player, including MJ, Kareem, Russell, Wilt, Magic, and Shaq.

Out of the top 7, Bird would benefit the most from modern medicine and training, and the p[COLOR="Black"]u[/COLOR]ssy-ass league the NBA is now.

Bird's peak was out of this world. He proved himself against the best competition the league has ever seen.

of course these are not the exact copy but these are a few long passes from lebron and no it is not like bird's because he is the one outrunning the other team most of the times as he is the fastest guy on the team:
[url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KT-zhe-5ORA&feature=player_detailpage#t=443s[/url]
[url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H9CUVV-HmFM[/url]
[url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KT-zhe-5ORA&feature=player_detailpage#t=351s[/url]
If you are talking about touch passes, i will show you some:
[url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KT-zhe-5ORA&feature=player_detailpage#t=166s[/url]
[url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KT-zhe-5ORA&feature=player_detailpage#t=209s[/url]
[url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KT-zhe-5ORA&feature=player_detailpage#t=415s[/url]
[url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KT-zhe-5ORA&feature=player_detailpage#t=498s[/url]
These are all from the same video too. i am doing your work here as it is only a 9 min video which i posted before which you clearly didn't watch.
here are some [B]passes in crowd[/B]:
[url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KT-zhe-5ORA&feature=player_detailpage#t=369s[/url]
[url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KT-zhe-5ORA&feature=player_detailpage#t=485s[/url]
[url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KT-zhe-5ORA&feature=player_detailpage#t=490s[/url]

Here is a great pass on the [B]offensive rebound[/B] in the same video i posted before:
[url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KT-zhe-5ORA&feature=player_detailpage#t=220s[/url]
another :
[url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KT-zhe-5ORA&feature=player_detailpage#t=432s[/url]
[B]Behind the back[/B] from same video which is only 9 mins long and you have problem watching it:
[url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KT-zhe-5ORA&feature=player_detailpage#t=268s[/url]
[url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KT-zhe-5ORA&feature=player_detailpage#t=288s[/url]
[url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KT-zhe-5ORA&feature=player_detailpage#t=305s[/url]
[url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KT-zhe-5ORA&feature=player_detailpage#t=443s[/url]
[B]If you are going to be as strict in your criteria show me some passes like these from bird :[/B]
[url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KT-zhe-5ORA&feature=player_detailpage#t=522s[/url]
[url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KT-zhe-5ORA&feature=player_detailpage#t=153s[/url]
[url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KT-zhe-5ORA&feature=player_detailpage#t=334s[/url] (don't give me an excuse that bird can't make that pass as he can't jump that high as jumping is a big part of basketball)
[url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KT-zhe-5ORA&feature=player_detailpage#t=452s[/url]

If you want to talk about 3 pointers, the video i posted in my last post has only 1 or 2 3-pointers.
[B]just yesterday, miami was really bad from 3 pt range and most easy dunks birdman had were from passes from lebron.He had 10 assists in that game. [/B]stop talking like he is not a great passer to players in the paint. He has great strength in his wrist and is able to make really fast passes to 3 pt shooters which gives them a lot of time to shoot. Should he stop passing to them so that he could please you?
If you want to talk about video length, i am sure some lebron-stan will make a 10 hour video when he retires.

bird himself said lebron is better

Very close. And in terms of career, Lebron will probably surpass Bird this season. From that point on, it will be a question of just how far up the list he moves before he retires.

People here claiming, that Bird's random throwing of Hale Mary passes to 2 teammates who were already waiting under the opposite basket in the moment he collected the rebound (seriously, what kind of pace is that? I am not even trying to imagine how dominate LeBron would be in an era where every other possession is a fastbreak) is better than LeBron's precise picking of halfcourt defense apart, are ridiculous:facepalm

[QUOTE=jzek]Only those who were born in the 90s and up would say LBJ is the GOAT SF. I started watching basketball in the 80s and can say without a doubt that Larry Legend is the GOAT SF. If someone needs an explanation why I say this then it's clear that someone has never seen prime Larry Legend.[/QUOTE]

What he said.

[QUOTE=aburre21]Bird was not a better passer than LeBron, it's that simpple. And I don't believe he was a better rebounder either. Rebounding is all about effort. When LeBron puts the effort into it like he did in the 2012 playoffs he can rebound with the best of them, and that included many offensive rebounds and finishes.[/QUOTE]

:lol
:biggums:

Bird was the better rebounder, they were equals in passing, Lebron has been the better defender, and while Bird was the better shooter, Lebron has been the better pure scorer.

And on't forget that Lebron, barring injury, will be among the elite for the next several seasons. Furthermore, and given his staggering efficiency this season, he is likely to get better.

Battle for the GOAT era-specific player.. :bowdown:

Who will win that title? LeBron or Bird.. :confusedshrug: