Bradley Manning sentenced to 35 years

[QUOTE=IcanzIIravor]Is it possible to agree with a few things Manning did while disagreeing with other things? I feel the same about Snowden. I've no problem with him as an NSA contractor objecting to domestic spying as the NSA is specifically charged with none domestic data gathering. My problem with him was revealing the data gathering we do overseas as the NSA is lawfully charged to do this. That aspect he knew taking the job.[/QUOTE]

Totally worth it find out the government is violating the 4th amendment. How are you even 1% ok with American's information being monitored without a specific warrant?

[QUOTE]you don't think it is silly to equate slavery with a guy who voluntarily signed up for the Army and who went through all the training to get the clearance he received? He was told over and over the consequences of revealing classified information. The slave had no choice with the situation given.[/QUOTE]

Just trying to make a point that laws are sometimes unjust. The laws used to imprison manning are unjust imo. Why is dick cheney and scooter libby not in jail for revealing the identity of Plame? Why aren't obama administration officials in jail for disclosing the existence of the CIA kill list or as they call the disposition matrix? The disposition matrix was classified at the time the obama administration leaked it for purely political purposes. Why isn't that a crime if revealing classified information is a crime?

[QUOTE]Are you under the impression that he only gave up information pertaining to alledged war crimes? Are you under the impression he looked over each document before giving it to wikileaks? If he had only given up data revealing suspected war crimes then he wouldn't be in this situation. It's the 700,000 plus documents he gave up that had nothing to do with war crimes that has ****ed him. There have been other soldiers and contractors who have revealed suspected war crimes and they have not been imprisoned over it.[/QUOTE]

Please either:
A. Name the specific CIA, Military, or other US government operative who has been killed or compromised or in any other way hurt because of the manning leaks (Eg. Scooter Libby's leaks disclosed Plame, which ended her career as a CIA operative). Or, name the specific CIA military, or other US government operation hurt by Manning's leaks, or name one american citizen harmed by manning's leaks? Or, top secret military designs/plans that were disclosed.

or

B. Admit that the government couldn't not prove that Manning's leak did any damage at all other than embarrassing the government. Basically we found out our diplomats talk a lot of shit like gossipy high school girls. And that our military hides the evidence of civilians they kill and protects the killers.

[url]http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/08/03/bradley-manning-sentence_n_3696501.html[/url]
Bradley Manning Sentencing Testimony Suggests WikiLeaks Not Responsible For Any Deaths

[QUOTE]The revealing of war crimes (people committing atrocities isn't what has gotten him in hot water) didn't lead to the full weight of the US government coming down on him. Revealing interactions with our allies amongst other things is what led to him getting the hammer. Was Manning ordered to destroy evidence? No. Did he bring any of this to the attention of his command or JAG? Did he attempt to do so and was rebuffed so felt he had no choice but to do a document dump of what he saw and what he didn't read over? [/QUOTE]

:lol Ya revealing classified information is why he is sentenced to 35 years. Remember that obama official who disclosed the cia kill list for public reasons and how he was also sentenced to 35 years ... oh wait.

According to Manning he did try to bring up the issue internally to his superiors, but was told to stop. What was he supposed to shut up about the fact that we are holding innocent people in gitmo in some cases for 10+ years? and sit on evidence that american soldiers killed civilians (evidence that the pentagon refused to give to reuters under the freedom of information act, which they should have because it wasn't operationally sensitive)? and evidence that proved the pentagon was lying when they said they weren't tracking how many civilians we are killing with our military operations? The real crime is the truth got out right?

[QUOTE]Why would you need to know how many people are killed in a war?[/QUOTE]
:biggums: :biggums: :biggums: :biggums:
Because it is wrong to kill civilians. I am only talking about civilian casualties. Arabs are still human man ...:wtf:

[QUOTE]There has been extensive coverage with regards to GITMO and the treatment of prisoners. Are you unaware of this? My problem is not with the video being leaked showing soldiers violating the Geneva convention. If that had been the extent of what he did (something that others have revealed; Abu Gharabe as one example) then I suspect the reaction would have been very different from the military and the Administration.[/QUOTE]

Manning's leaks helped confirm that the US government knows full well that it is holding innocent people in Gitmo and yet with full knowledge of their innocence refuses to release them. They also force feed them.

[QUOTE]Manning's leaks included more than 700 Guantanamo detainee files, many revealing that the U.S. had little reason to continue holding its prisoners. The 250,000 State Department cables he leaked detailed U.S. diplomatic pressure on foreign countries to ignore or excuse extraordinary renditions carried out by the CIA in apparent violation of international law. They also showed that the U.S. routinely failed to investigate reports of prisoner abuse and summary execution by the Iraqi military.[/QUOTE]

manning's leaks helped confirm all of that, but you probably are one of those people that think its ok to hold them indefinitely without trial...

[QUOTE]You don't understand. He went through the training which explicitely mentioned it would be a violation to reveal classified data. He willfully disregarded that and dumped a few hundred thousand files to wikileaks, which revealed classified, secret and top secret data. I am amazed this is so hard to understand. Maybe it is because you're a civilian who has never had the classified training. I doubt to this day the majority of those files have been gone over by wikileaks, so who really knows the extent of the damage? The government certainly wouldn't reveal the extent of it. [/QUOTE]

Haha they had a whole trial government could not find one instance where damage was done. they punishing him for the good he did. Government had 3 years to prep for the case

[QUOTE]Why do you need to know it? Your feeling is that all data within the US government and military should be available to the general public or is it just certain data you feel should be available at all times to the public? I take it you think nothing should be classified?[/QUOTE]

Anything that is not operationally sensitive (eg. future military plans or the position of our troops/ships) or stuff like military designs should be disclosed. Basically anything covered under the freedom of information act should be disclosed.

I feel sorry for anyone who considers this kid a "hero". He KNEW what he did was wrong. A twenty-something, low ranking enlisted member has the rules, restrictions, training and PENALTIES of the proper handling of classified material hammered into them constantly!!!! He obviously had some issues - the whole gender issue, issue, etc. Did the US Army "fail" him by deploying him? I'm not sure, but he would have definitely been a "red flag" for me if he was one of my subordinates. His release of "atrocities and war crimes" as a defense is crap - guess what happens in wars???? People die - that's what happens in wars - do really shitty things take place in wars???? Yes, yes they do. All kinds of really shitty things are taking place in Syria right now - and they're getting done....ready for this....shocker....without any Americans there!!!! Bottom line, Bradley "Chelsea" Manning betrayed not only his Country and Service, but his fellow Soldiers....his sentencing of 35 years - eligible for parole in less than nine years is BS and a slap in the face to the men and women of the Armed Forces who do their duty and place their lives on the line. They don't get to choose the next shit hole they get sent to!

[QUOTE=blazerjimmy]I feel sorry for anyone who considers this kid a "hero". He KNEW what he did was wrong. A twenty-something, low ranking enlisted member has the rules, restrictions, training and PENALTIES of the proper handling of classified material hammered into them constantly!!!! He obviously had some issues - the whole gender issue, issue, etc. Did the US Army "fail" him by deploying him? I'm not sure, but he would have definitely been a "red flag" for me if he was one of my subordinates. His release of "atrocities and war crimes" as a defense is crap - guess what happens in wars???? People die - that's what happens in wars - do really shitty things take place in wars???? Yes, yes they do. All kinds of really shitty things are taking place in Syria right now - and they're getting done....ready for this....shocker....without any Americans there!!!! Bottom line, Bradley "Chelsea" Manning betrayed not only his Country and Service, but his fellow Soldiers....his sentencing of 35 years - eligible for parole in less than nine years is BS and a slap in the face to the men and women of the Armed Forces who do their duty and place their lives on the line. They don't get to choose the next shit hole they get sent to![/QUOTE]

So you think that Imperial Japanese soldiers and Nazi soldiers were right in following orders right?

Quite frankly we had no business invading Iraq. The invasion of Iraq would have been considered a war crime if we werent so powerful.

Obviously Chelsea Manning has issues and fine lets say she deserves her punishment. (I just want to restate that the US government dispute immense effort has not prove a single instance where an american person/agent/operation/asset/anything was compromised by her leaks.)

Why are you ok with dick cheney, scooter libby and the obama administration for leaking classified information for political benefit?

[QUOTE]His release of "atrocities and war crimes" as a defense is crap - guess what happens in wars???? People die - that's what happens in wars - do really shitty things take place in wars???? Yes, yes they do. All kinds of really shitty things are taking place in Syria right now - and they're getting done....ready for this....shocker....without any Americans there!!!![/QUOTE]

If you are really happy with our government having the equivalent morals to Bashar Assad you and I will have to disagree.

Why is that the actual information leaked doesnt offend you at all?

- Are you ok with killing civilians and first responders?
-Are you ok with the pentagon refusing to release non-operationally sensitive information to reuters under the freedom of information act?
-Are you ok with the pentagon claiming they dont keep track of civilian casualties when they clearly do?
- Are you ok with the government holding detainees in gitmo for 10+ years on no evidence? Think about that for a minute, these people have been taken from their families and imprisoned on zero evidence for more than a decade. Is that what America is now? Thats soviet gulag like.

MavsSF dominating this thread.

[QUOTE=DonD13]*Chelsea[/QUOTE]

Seeing people genuinely refer to him as "Chelsea (Bradley) Manning" makes me nauseous. I'm sure he isn't offended by being referred to as a male, which is what the entire world knows him as. When I first saw Chelsea Manning, I thought it was his sister or something, until the story stopped making sense and I had to google "Chelsea Manning."

This thread pretty much just exposed KevinNYC. If this was the Bush administration, I can all but guarantee that he would be on the other side. I can't respect people that have their tongues glued to a parties' ****

Snowden must have information on MK Ultra. He has said most information he has he has not released. He should post the truth that MK Ultra is still in operation and the horrific unimaginable abuse it causes to innocent people including many children.

[QUOTE=secund2nun]Snowden must have information on MK Ultra. He has said most information he has he has not released. He should post the truth that MK Ultra is still in operation and the horrific unimaginable abuse it causes to innocent people including many children.[/QUOTE]

Do you have any proof or evidence that he has info on MK-ULTRA?
How about that MK-ULTRA is still operational?

I don't mean to sound like a wet-blanket, but there is no evidence that the program is still in place or tat it ever captured children to "Monarch mind-control" them. Except for a few tall-stories that also involve Jimmy Saville dressed as a baphomet.

[QUOTE=HarryCallahan]Seeing people genuinely refer to him as "Chelsea (Bradley) Manning" makes me nauseous. [/QUOTE]

Why is that?

[QUOTE=HarryCallahan]I'm sure he isn't offended by being referred to as a male, which is what the entire world knows him as. [/QUOTE]
Chelsea Manning explicitly said the opposite

[QUOTE]As I transition into this next phase of my life, I want everyone to know the real me. I am Chelsea Manning. I am a female. Given the way that I feel, and have felt since childhood, I want to begin hormone therapy as soon as possible. I hope that you will support me in this transition. [B]I also request that, starting today, you refer to me by my new name and use the feminine pronoun [/B](except in official mail to the confinement facility). I look forward to receiving letters from supporters and having the opportunity to write back.

Thank you,

Chelsea E. Manning[/QUOTE]

Manning was exposed after having several online chats with a well-known hacker named Adrian Lamo who is himself bisexual and that was one of the reason Manning sought him out. Lamo also told Manning his ex was a MTF, a male who transitioned to female, exactly what Manning is hoping to do. During those chats Manning told Lamo[QUOTE]I wouldn’t mind going to prison for the rest of my life, or being executed so much, if it wasn’t for the possibility of having pictures of me plastered all over the world press as a boy.[/QUOTE]

Reportedly the Bradly Manning support network started reffering to Manning as her/she a year ago. This is why I thought it was ironic, that I mentioned Manning's mindset I got accused of smearing him.

So Mr. Callahan again, I ask why does this make you nauseous?

[QUOTE=KingBeasley08]This thread pretty much just exposed KevinNYC. If this was the Bush administration, I can all but guarantee that he would be on the other side. I can't respect people that have their tongues glued to a parties' ****[/QUOTE]

Prove to me that William Vollman is NOT the Unabomber.

North Korean citizens have a stronger grasp of reality than KevinNYC

[QUOTE=KevinNYC]Why is that?
[/QUOTE]


Mainly because most people who refer to him as Chelsea do it in a smug sort of way, kind of like when people talk about their prius.

I didn't know he was trans until like a week ago.

[QUOTE]I wouldn

Bradley Manning is a true American hero. It completely boggles the mind that the savages that killed innocent people weren't investigated yet this guy goes to jail for trying to do the right thing. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong about these soldiers not being investigated.

Someone can correct me if I'm wrong, I'm barely if at all following the case, but did Manning not release other military secrets and classified information that did not pertain to the killing of innocent civilians in Iraq?

Is this one of those situations where he got jail time with half? Meaning he got sentenced to 35 years, but he will be out at 17 years? Or is this 35 solid?

[QUOTE=COnDEMnED]Is this one of those situations where he got jail time with half? Meaning he got sentenced to 35 years, but he will be out at 17 years? Or is this 35 solid?[/QUOTE]

I think it's 35+ solid.

[QUOTE=COnDEMnED]Is this one of those situations where he got jail time with half? Meaning he got sentenced to 35 years, but he will be out at 17 years? Or is this 35 solid?[/QUOTE]

He can be out in 8 years.

Eligible for parole after serving one third of his sentence. With his time already served that would be 8 years.