The difference between LeBron and Jordan..straight to the facts and past the Nikecoms

[QUOTE=diamenz][B]jordan fans/stans vs. lebron fans/stans. the good thing about the jordan folks is that they don't circle jerk each other.[/B]

jordan is labeled goat not only because of his stats, achievements, and awards; but because of what he actually did on the court. watch the games - it's not rocket science. he doesn't flop. he doesn't disappear when his team is down and then reappear when they're up. he didn't jump ship and play alongside zeke and joe. you can split hairs any way you want to, but the big picture says otherwise.[/QUOTE]

Absolutely UNTRUE.
Take this thread for example. All the Jordan stans all on cue are in this thread patting eachother on the back. Tony is single handedly taking all you circle jerkers on.
Again, another Jordaneer calling the kettle black when it's flip flopped in reality.

[QUOTE=SpurrDurr]I know OP is trolling but so are MJ stans. People gotta admit that MJ Bulls were STACKED.[/QUOTE]At least they didn't choke against elite teams like the Spurs do.

lebron is taller than MJ which is the only difference. /thread

[QUOTE=97 bulls]Even if you look at the 95 season. The Bulls were winning roughly 53% of their games. When Jordan shows up they jump to 76%[/QUOTE]

Where can I get pre and post Jordan numbers?

Great thread, but they don't want to hear it.

[QUOTE=sekachu]lebron is taller than MJ which is the only difference. /thread[/QUOTE]

So if the only difference is height then you're saying Lebron = MJ as a player. But height is an asset in basketball so therefor Lebron > MJ

Well let's end thread right there

[QUOTE=daily]Lebron James age 28, 10 seasons, 765 games
Michael Jordan age 28, 8 seasons, 589 games

[IMG]http://i41.tinypic.com/6y0dut.jpg[/IMG][/QUOTE]

For the sake of argument, even if you added an extra three years and Jordan got drafted out of HS the chart would still look the same. In three years previous no way Jordan would have won hardware in the prime of the Larry Bird/Magic Johnson era. The chart would look the same as TonyMontana's

Lack of big men today makes it EASIER for Lebron to hit the boards.. MJ had to deal with real skilled and athletic rebounding big men, Lebron faces a bunch of sissies on the boards compared to who the Bulls faced in the 90s.

Got lebron kiddos mentioning david west as a name thats supposed to impress anybody:oldlol: 93 Charles Barkley eats Lebrons for lunch on the boards and anywhere down low in the post. So does dennis rodman, pat ewing, shaq, hakeem, zo, mutumbo, malone, and every other big men that Jordan had to contend with.

[QUOTE=DaHeezy]For the sake of argument, even if you added an extra three years and Jordan got drafted out of HS the chart would still look the same. In three years previous no way Jordan would have won hardware in the prime of the Larry Bird/Magic Johnson era. The chart would look the same as TonyMontana's[/QUOTE]


Because winning MVP and rings in the 1980s was much harder than it is now. In the 1980s the competition for MVP was prime Larry Bird, prime Magic, prime Moses Malone. Lebron in his MVP seasons beat out 21 year old Durant, 23 year old Durant, 24 year old Durant, and 30 year old Kobe. The competition in the 1980s for the award is perhaps the most stacked of all time. The last 5 years of MVP have been a joke when you consider the competition. I mean Derrick Rose won an MVP in that span as well. You think he wins it if he's competing with Bird or Magic?

One of Montana's favorite reasons as to why he say LeBron is greater than Jordan is this crap about James being the first player in NBA history to lead his team to a chip with a bad FC, right? Well guess what, elite big men in today's NBA are a species in verge of extinction. It is so much easier to win a so so FC today than in 00's (prime Duncan, KG, Shaq, Gasol, Wallace, Howard) than the last few years. The game has become perimeter oriented. It was a rule of thumb you needed a stud C to win a title, GOAT MJ changed that. His "elite FC" in the first threepeat consisted of Cartwright, Will Purdue, Scott Williams and Horace Grant. Real bunch of HOFers. Don't get me wrong. I love me some Horace but TonyMontana wants to sale you the idea that Grant was an elite PF. He wasn't. He was a role player. MJ and to an extent, Pippen are the reason the Bulls won 6 titles. Me and countless of othe Bulls fans know this because we watched those games. There's a reason Jordan has a statue at the UC and not Grant. Montana is just a LeBron jockriding nerd that watched a few YouTube videos.

It isn't a real big deal that LeBron has won with what the OP call the worst NBA title winning FC because this is a weak era for FCs. Scrub Hibbert (he's nowhere near elite big man in the 80s/90s) forced the Heat to a 7th game . Just imagine what FCs like Hakeem/Thorpe, Ewing/Oakley, Robinson/Duncan, Shaq/Grant, Smitts/Davis Boys, Zo/Johnson, Parish/McHale, Rodman/Mahorn or Eaton/Malone would do to this Heat. Bloodbath. It ain't that impressive winning in this era of weak bigs. What Jordan did do was win without a legit big in the greatest era of bigs in NBA history.

MJ > LBJ and it ain't close.

[QUOTE=DaHeezy]For the sake of argument, even if you added an extra three years and Jordan got drafted out of HS the chart would still look the same. In three years previous no way Jordan would have won hardware in the prime of the Larry Bird/Magic Johnson era. The chart would look the same as TonyMontana's[/QUOTE]
Great point. I know you are anti Jordan but me as a Jordan fan, I always point out the fact that MJ was going up against absolute GOAT candidates like Bird/Magic for MVP in his early years...meanwhile LeBron's comp is DRose, DHoward, KD, CP3 or Melo.

Even in MVP competition, MJ is superior to LeBron:oldlol:

[QUOTE=TheMan]One of Montana's favorite reasons as to why he say LeBron is greater than Jordan is this crap about James being the first player in NBA history to lead his team to a chip with a bad FC, right? Well guess what, elite big men in today's NBA are a species in verge of extinction. It is so much easier to win a so so FC today than in 00's (prime Duncan, KG, Shaq, Gasol, Wallace, Howard) than the last few years. The game has become perimeter oriented. It was a rule of thumb you needed a stud C to win a title, GOAT MJ changed that. His "elite FC" in the first threepeat consisted of Cartwright, Will Purdue, Scott Williams and Horace Grant. Real bunch of HOFers. Don't get me wrong. I love me some Horace but TonyMontana wants to sale you the idea that Grant was an elite PF. He wasn't. He was a role player. MJ and to an extent, Pippen are the reason the Bulls won 6 titles. Me and countless of othe Bulls fans know this because we watched those games. There's a reason Jordan has a statue at the UC and not Grant. Montana is just a LeBron jockriding nerd that watched a few YouTube videos.

It isn't a real big deal that LeBron has won with what the OP call the worst NBA title winning FC because this is a weak era for FCs. Scrub Hibbert (he's nowhere near elite big man in the 80s/90s) forced the Heat to a 7th game . Just imagine what FCs like Hakeem/Thorpe, Ewing/Oakley, Robinson/Duncan, Shaq/Grant, Smitts/Davis Boys, Zo/Johnson, Parish/McHale, Rodman/Mahorn or Eaton/Malone would do to this Heat. Bloodbath. It ain't that impressive winning in this era of weak bigs. What Jordan did do was win without a legit big in the greatest era of bigs in NBA history.

MJ > LBJ and it ain't close.[/QUOTE]
I feel the same. I keep saying Roy Hibbert would be a slightly better Luc Longley in the 90s.

[QUOTE=TheMan]Great point. I know you are anti Jordan but me as a Jordan fan, I always point out the fact that MJ was going up against absolute GOAT candidates like Bird/Magic for MVP in his early years...meanwhile LeBron's comp is DRose, DHoward, KD, CP3 or Melo.

Even in MVP competition, MJ is superior to LeBron:oldlol:[/QUOTE]
Yep. As a point of emphasis. Scottie Pippens 94 season wouldve netted him two MVPs in the current generation. Roses MVP and Nashs. And hed have a DPOY award.

[QUOTE=tpols]Lack of big men today makes it EASIER for Lebron to hit the boards.. MJ had to deal with real skilled and athletic rebounding big men, Lebron faces a bunch of sissies on the boards compared to who the Bulls faced in the 90s.

Got lebron kiddos mentioning david west as a name thats supposed to impress anybody:oldlol: 93 Charles Barkley eats Lebrons for lunch on the boards and anywhere down low in the post. So does dennis rodman, pat ewing, shaq, hakeem, zo, mutumbo, malone, and every other big men that Jordan had to contend with.[/QUOTE]
Lol I thought the same thing. Who dafuq is David West? I mean hes solid. But come on.

Holy fk, Tony is absolutely ETHERING everyone. With [B]FACTS[/B]. :bowdown:

[QUOTE=funnystuff]Holy fk, Tony is absolutely ETHERING everyone. With [B]FACTS[/B]. :bowdown:[/QUOTE]
lol

nice try though.:oldlol:

[QUOTE=funnystuff]Holy fk, Tony is absolutely ETHERING everyone. With [B]FACTS[/B]. :bowdown:[/QUOTE]


The Spock in your universe has a goatee, right?

Greatest Fact of this thread is how Delusional OP is.

Op and his piggy backers like to sell the idea that an argumentative rebuttal is required to put these baseless and silly assumptions to rest. No you don't need them. The only thing you need is the ability to ban a user in this forum. Sadly, an exclusive right to Jeff.

[QUOTE=andgar923]Anybody with half a brain cell and actual basketball experience will tell you that the game was different back then. MJ didn't grab more rebounds because he couldn't, it was because his role was different due to the era he played in.

The era he played in was more big man dominated. The role for playing in the paint was primarily a big man's role where they lived. Unlike today in which big men play in the perimeter, they played in the paint which was tougher and grimier.

MJ also had to spend more energy that Bron does today. Not only did he have to fight multiple double/triple teams, physical play on offense, he also had to fight through multiple screens on defense, his man running all over the court. On the flip side, today's NBA is more stationary, more one on one, less physical so Bron doesn't have to use as much energy physically.

And then there's the most obvious reason as to why MJ didn't grab more rebounds, a reason so obvious a 10 year old will see it as such:

DIFFERENT POSITION

MJ's role is to guard the other wing players so defensively he's already further from the rim. He also has to chase down perimeter players and get position, they're also the first to get down the court and as a perimeter player he's supposed to protect until the bigs get down court.

Bron plays the point FORWARD position. And even tho his game is versatile he eventually has to guard players closer to the basket.

Yet, there's another reason why Bron has more rebounds

We should just get one thing straight. Jordan wasn't playing against Hakeem every night.

Also, sure, bigs were better back then but guards and perimeter players are better today. Which is where Lebron and Jordan spent the most of the game against.

But, at the end of the day. Lebron has a lot of things going for him in this Jordan vs Lebron discussion but Jordan is still the better player and the goat.

[QUOTE=Dionysus]After that long wall of written excuses for Michael Jordans pathetic rebounding, and inferior rebounding to LeBron, you proceed to end it by saying Jordan is a better rebounder than LeBron?:roll: :roll:

This is too funny, now I want to see your excuse on why Jordan is nowhere near good a passer and why his assist numbers can't touch the King. I'll be waiting for your wank of an excuse:lol[/QUOTE]
Hey, lemme explain the positional difference between LBJ and MJ in simpler terms since andgar's went over your head:facepalm:

In soccer or what you guys call football, a striker fr example is supossed to score more goals than a center back, why? Because of positioning and duties required of the position they play, the striker by position alone is closer to the opposition's goal area than the CB and one of the...you know what, fvck it. This is why Bron stans are seen as the biggest morons here and me explaining the simple concept that a F naturally will have more rebound attempts than a gaurd who is further from the rim won't get through your dense heads. BTW, stick to footy you limey cvnt, your clueless in basketball. Leave that to us 'Muricans

Going to briefly interrupt my Vegas vacation to chime in on this...

I'm a die hard Heat fan, and have grown as partial to LeBron the player as you can get...

But he's not Jordan.

All you had to do was watch them. LeBron is certainly better at certain aspects of the game, namely rebounding, playmaking, not to mention the versatility on the defensive end. But Jordan is undoubtedly the better big game player. Intangibles is what set Michael away from the rest of the pack.

Jordan [I]NEVER[/I] choked in a series like LeBron did in the 2011 Finals. IT NEVER HAPPENED.

When Jordan's team were legitimately in position to complete for the title, he came thru pretty much every time. And the one time he didn't it was a 7 game ECF battle to the eventual champion Pistons. And in that series, he averaged 32-7-6.



The OP can't continually try to marginalize the impact of Wade or Bosh in order to prop up LeBron with this past years post-season run, and yet gloss over LeBron's horrific 2011 Finals. A series where got sufficient enough support from his co-stars, and yet it was HE, LeBron James, who wet the bed when the team needed him the most.

LeBron scored 8 points in game 4, brah. EIGHT! How does that happen??? 8 points in an [B]NBA Finals [/B]game from the best player? No injury. As close to 100% as you can be?

I don't hold any of LeBron's Cleveland years against him, because he took those teams ultimately as far as they could go, and no player in NBA history would've done better given the same set of circumstances. But the series against Dallas? Considering how closely contested the games were? And the fact that Wade was playing like a savage? If LeBron simply scored within 2 or 3 points of his season average, the Heat would be shooting for 4 titles in a row right now.

Now LeBron bounced back viciously from that series, and has been sensational the last two seasons. But you can't just act like that series didn't happen. It did.

LeBron is great, and he's still got the rest of his career ahead of him. But his legend isn't on par with Michael's. Not yet at least.

[QUOTE=funnystuff]Holy fk, Tony is absolutely ETHERING everyone. With [B]FACTS[/B]. :bowdown:[/QUOTE]
Is Lebron's jizz blinding your eyes? I don't see any ethering here except everyone gangbanging Montana.

As far as the topic of the thread goes, op is on point. Mj did have seasons where he filled many roles at once, but Lebron's [B]career[/B] has consisted of this role. No other superstar has been asked to do so much on a night in night out basis as Lebron does, it's a testament to his greatness that's he's been able to maintain this output at the level he has.

Now on the side stuff that gets dragged into every Lebron thread, 2011 happened. To say that Mj or Kobe or any random player would have won in Lebron's place is asinine because they would have to deal with whatever pressures Lebron had as well. He moved on and became a better player, had it not happened he may have never taken the next step as a player. Just like Mj had to take his lumps against the pistons, against orlando when he 1st came back. The failures are part of the story, all players fail at some point. The best use it to reach the next level.

[QUOTE=sdot_thadon]As far as the topic of the thread goes, op is on point. Mj did have seasons where he filled many roles at once, but Lebron's [B]career[/B] has consisted of this role. No other superstar has been asked to do so much on a night in night out basis as Lebron does, it's a testament to his greatness that's he's been able to maintain this output at the level he has.

Now on the side stuff that gets dragged into every Lebron thread, 2011 happened. To say that Mj or Kobe or any random player would have won in Lebron's place is asinine because they would have to deal with whatever pressures Lebron had as well. He moved on and became a better player, had it not happened he may have never taken the next step as a player. Just like Mj had to take his lumps against the pistons, against orlando when he 1st came back. The failures are part of the story, all players fail at some point. The best use it to reach the next level.[/QUOTE]
Why would MJ or Kobe winning on 2011 is asinine? The Heat were the favorites to win and could've won or at least go 7 games if Lebron didn't disappeared on the last game. We are not talking about he trying his best and failing like MJ vs the pistons in the 80's or Kobe vs Celtics in 08, we are talking about him just straight giving up (I thought he was on the bench the whole time, I even forgot he was playing. I never seen that in my life). MJ or Kobe for that matter wouldn't had given up on the team until the last second.

Could they have lost? Yes, but they would leave everything they have on the floor. Lebron never done that in his career until game 6 of this year Finals when his back was against the wall.

[QUOTE=Bandito]Why would MJ or Kobe winning on 2011 is asinine? The Heat were the favorites to win and could've won or at least go 7 games if Lebron didn't disappeared on the last game. We are not talking about he trying his best and failing like MJ vs the pistons in the 80's or Kobe vs Celtics in 08, we are talking about him just straight giving up (I thought he was on the bench the whole time, I even forgot he was playing. I never seen that in my life). MJ or Kobe for that matter wouldn't had given up on the team until the last second.[/QUOTE]
So while playing a game of what ifs, do you place them in the exact same conditions as Lebron? Or conveniently transplant their situation into his? I think more than choking was in play in 2011. Lebron had the pressure of living up to the decision on his back, had just been prematurely called better than Mj by Mj's wingman, oh and had an identity crisis going on on the floor as well. Also played every game knowing what type of summer losing would bring. Would they be subjected to playing with a guy near their equal in talent and play style? And that guy having a hell of a series where maybe they'd feel the need to stay out of his way?

Fyi not excusing his play in any way, he flat out stank. Just pointing out that what ifs are very sketchy.

[QUOTE=daily]Lebron James age 28, 10 seasons, 765 games
Michael Jordan age 28, 8 seasons, 589 games

[IMG]http://i41.tinypic.com/6y0dut.jpg[/IMG][/QUOTE]

:roll:

[QUOTE=sdot_thadon]So while playing a game of what ifs, do you place them in the exact same conditions as Lebron? Or conveniently transplant their situation into his? I think more than choking was in play in 2011. Lebron had the pressure of living up to the decision on his back, had just been prematurely called better than Mj by Mj's wingman, oh and had an identity crisis going on on the floor as well. Also played every game knowing what type of summer losing would bring. Would they be subjected to playing with a guy near their equal in talent and play style? And that guy having a hell of a series where maybe they'd feel the need to stay out of his way?

Fyi not excusing his play in any way, he flat out stank. Just pointing out that what ifs are very sketchy.[/QUOTE]
But you're doing the same what if scenario by stating what if MJ and Kobe played with the same scrutiny they would have the same result in your previous post.

But in reality the problem with 2011 is not him losing, is how he lost. Like you said he flat out stank. If he didn't choke the way he did (I am not talking about pts in the 4 quarter I am talking about straight disappearing) he wouldn't have had the same summer of fail he had in 2011. He learned from that, no doubts (he became better thanks to that), but would MJ or Kobe have done the same if their back was against the wall?

[QUOTE=TheMan]Hey, lemme explain the positional difference between LBJ and MJ in simpler terms since andgar's went over your head:facepalm:

In soccer or what you guys call football, a striker fr example is supossed to score more goals than a center back, why? Because of positioning and duties required of the position they play, the striker by position alone is closer to the opposition's goal area than the CB and one of the...you know what, fvck it. This is why Bron stans are seen as the biggest morons here and me explaining the simple concept that a F naturally will have more rebound attempts than a gaurd who is further from the rim won't get through your dense heads. BTW, stick to footy you limey cvnt, your clueless in basketball. Leave that to us 'Muricans[/QUOTE]

As someone who watches f

[QUOTE=Bandito]But you're doing the same what if scenario by stating what if MJ and Kobe played with the same scrutiny they would have the same result in your previous post.

But in reality the problem with 2011 is not him losing, is how he lost. Like you said he flat out stank. If he didn't choke the way he did (I am not talking about pts in the 4 quarter I am talking about straight disappearing) he wouldn't have had the same summer of fail he had in 2011. He learned from that, no doubts (he became better thanks to that), but would MJ or Kobe have done the same if their back was against the wall?[/QUOTE]
Actually I wasn't, just showing there's much more to an event than just swapping this guy for that one and expecting, proclaiming results. There are literally thousands of possibilities, Mj and Wade maybe wouldn't have been able to coexist, maybe Mj wouldn't have been happy being outplayed by a teammate and start jacking shots. Too many to narrow down to one absolute like Mj would have won in his spot, which may not be what you stated but what is thrown around here often when 2011 comes up.

[QUOTE=Dionysus]As someone who watches f

the main thing that separates them is one of them elevates his game in the playoffs, and even more so in the finals. along the way, he has put up the most number of legendary playoff series, had the most number of legendary playoff games, and had the most number of legendary single playoff moments.

can you guess which one is the one im talking about?

LeBron Cavaliers? 2010-2011 Wade was the best player on the Heat and LeBron's chokejob cost them a ring.

In 2011-2012 Wade averaged 22\5\5 in the regular season on great efficiency, averaged 23\6\5 in the playoffs and 23\6\5 in the NBA Finals. That's LeBron being a one man team?

in 2012-2013 when Wade was at his healthiest in the regular season he was the best player on the Heat for almost a 2 month stretch. 21\5\5 in the regular season on great efficiency.

Wade gets injured in the playoffs and all of a sudden he's a liability??

[QUOTE=sdot_thadon][B]Actually I wasn't, just showing there's much more to an event than just swapping this guy for that one and expecting, proclaiming results.[/B] There are literally thousands of possibilities, Mj and Wade maybe wouldn't have been able to coexist, maybe Mj wouldn't have been happy being outplayed by a teammate and start jacking shots. Too many to narrow down to one absolute like Mj would have won in his spot, which may not be what you stated but what is thrown around here often when 2011 comes up.[/QUOTE]
True but in my hypothetical situation I was only talking about game 6 of the 2011 finals, and not really about the results, but more of how they play. If MJ played in that game and lost, do you honestly believe the main reason behind it would be because he gave up ? Or because he got owned by a better team?

[QUOTE=Papaya Petee]LeBron Cavaliers? 2010-2011 Wade was the best player on the Heat and LeBron's chokejob cost them a ring.

In 2011-2012 Wade averaged 22\5\5 in the regular season on great efficiency, averaged 23\6\5 in the playoffs and 23\6\5 in the NBA Finals. That's LeBron being a one man team?

in 2012-2013 when Wade was at his healthiest in the regular season he was the best player on the Heat for almost a 2 month stretch. 21\5\5 in the regular season on great efficiency.

[B]Wade gets injured in the playoffs and all of a sudden he's a liability[/B]??[/QUOTE]
By lebronite reasoning yes.:facepalm

Oh my, lebron was guarding "David Wests", what a goat player he is to use his name in this way. Lebron was guarding him so well that he and hibbert were droping 25 a game against miami in the playoffs.

And lebron must have the worst luck of any nba player in history. Because both teams he played were bad and he had to carry them. Cleveland a shitty teamand miami with the soft bosh and old wade and old ray allen. Poor lebron.

The only reason lebron won 2 ringz in miami is because now he is a superior player and the goat. Put the miami lebron back in cleveland and they 4-peat.

Lebron the GOAT is the only guy who had to carry the cleveland cavaliers and the miami cavaliers. GOAT :bowdown:

[QUOTE=TheMan]Yeah I agree, there are things James does better than Jordan, choking is one of them:oldlol:

Give me one series where Jordan had a remotely close drop off in production as Bron had in 2011 Finals:confusedshrug:
:oldlol:[/QUOTE]

So losing in the Finals is worst than taking 6 years to even make a Finals? LeBron got to a finals in 4yrs with a garbage team and a garbage coach, meanwhile in Jordans 4th year he lost 3 straight games vs The Pistons in the conference finals in which he shot 5-15fg in one game and then practically quit on his team by only attempting 8 shots. He pulled a Kobe vs Suns.:oldlol:

Just because Jordan didn't lose in the Finals doesn't mean he never choked.

Also LeBron never had the luxury Jordan has where he can shoot 41% and 42% in Finals and still win. Jordan's stacked teams carried him.

the difference between Lebron and Jordan?

Jordan = GOAT.

end of story.

[QUOTE=Dionysus]So losing in the Finals is worst than taking 6 years to even make a Finals? LeBron got to a finals in 4yrs with a garbage team and a garbage coach, meanwhile in Jordans 4th year he lost 3 straight games vs The Pistons in the conference finals in which he shot 5-15fg in one game and then practically quit on his team by only attempting 8 shots. He pulled a Kobe vs Suns.:oldlol:

Just because Jordan didn't lose in the Finals doesn't mean he never choked.

Also LeBron never had the luxury Jordan has where he can shoot 41% and 42% in Finals and still win. Jordan's stacked teams carried him.[/QUOTE]

The amount of history and context you had to ignore to to make this post is mind boggling.

[QUOTE=f0und]the main thing that separates them is one of them elevates his game in the playoffs, and even more so in the finals. along the way, he has put up the most number of legendary playoff series, had the most number of legendary playoff games, and had the most number of legendary single playoff moments.

can you guess which one is the one im talking about?[/QUOTE]

I'm guessing LeBron.

Greatest game 7 player of All Time. Has better Elimination game stats than Jordan and Kobe.

Also has that game 5 vs Pistons, his game 6 vs Celtics, his headband game, and his clutch closer game 7 that has gained him the same amount of titles Jordan had at age 28.