Discussing the Bulls chances of beating the Heat in a 7 game series

[QUOTE=HoopsFanNumero1]There were plenty of times where Lebron was defending Rose man-to-man and forced him to take a jumpshot. E.g.

[url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pBcZbKvVknI[/url]

Go to 2:45

Another play I vividly remember was at the end of game 4 where Lebron forced Rose into taking a jump-shot which airballed.

[url]http://youtu.be/2PUMoAZ8TPs?t=14m4s[/url][/QUOTE]


Great post. 2 plays on an absolute island, and he throws up two misses.

[QUOTE=plowking]And the 4th quarter video of game 5 in 2011 proves you wrong already. :oldlol:

[B]Less help, less rotations and more open courts for Rose, yet Lebron still managed to keep him quiet.[/B]

Myth debunked yet?[/QUOTE]

That's the opposite of what I saw.

You're so fustrating, it's unbearable right now...:facepalm

Again, that video particularly the first 3 or so minutes shows the amount of high screen help and defense traps set by guys helping Lebron. The moment rose got inside 10 to 12 feet another guy was helping Bron cut his driving lane off or forcing him into bad areas, which proves my earlier point about the swarming help defense the Heat played and not the man defense you want to make up.

And to think we lost this game up 8 with 2 minutes to go and up 7 with just over 1 and a half minutes to go...

The idiot Heat fans who thought this was not a close series :oldlol:

All of the games were within 10 points around the last quarter except for Game 1 in which Bulls blew the Heat out,...

Beasley better than Butler

[QUOTE=poido123]I would talk to you if you provided some discussion instead of just trolling all the time...[/quote]

It's in the other t providing something, as plowking is ethering you just enough. You are currently creating two separate myths (although one has probably been created long time ago) in that delusional head of yours. I'm just having a good fun:lol

[QUOTE=Bigsmoke]Beasley better than Butler[/QUOTE]

:oldlol:

Beasley is a ****ing scrub. Oden is the guy opposing teams should be afraid of playing.

[QUOTE=Trollsmasher][QUOTE=poido123]I would talk to you if you provided some discussion instead of just trolling all the time...

It's in the other t providing something, as plowking is ethering you just enough. You are currently creating two separate myths (although one has probably been created long time ago) in that delusional head of yours. I'm just having a good fun:lol[/QUOTE]


Make yourself relevant and provide a lick of knowledge, try and engage people with something interesting and engaging...

You are no better than an old washed up car saleman trying to flog off his last car...Glue factory you go old man :oldlol:

[QUOTE=SilkkTheShocker]:oldlol:

Beasley is a ****ing scrub. Oden is the guy opposing teams should be afraid of playing.[/QUOTE]

Agree.

Oden really throws a spanner in the works if he's providing an impact.

Fingers crossed that he doesn't. :(

Wow tonymontana you never cease to amaze me

[QUOTE=poido123]That's the opposite of what I saw.

You're so fustrating, it's unbearable right now...:facepalm

Again, that video particularly the first 3 or so minutes shows the amount of high screen help and defense traps set by guys helping Lebron. The moment rose got inside 10 to 12 feet another guy was helping Bron cut his driving lane off or forcing him into bad areas, which proves my earlier point about the swarming help defense the Heat played and not the man defense you want to make up.

And to think we lost this game up 8 with 2 minutes to go and up 7 with just over 1 and a half minutes to go...

The idiot Heat fans who thought this was not a close series :oldlol:

All of the games were within 10 points around the last quarter except for Game 1 in which Bulls blew the Heat out,...[/QUOTE]


I honestly knew nothing would change.

You've been shown two plays of the two guys on an island with each other, and Lebron getting the better of him.

Show me which plays, what are you talking about?
[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h-TtcGaUXQY[/url]

Go on... there it is.

Play at 2:05. No help. Great D, and Rose still makes the shot.
3:13, Rose has a whole side cleared out, no help for James, and doesn't drive.
3:21 Lebron does a great job staying with him, and gets UD to hedge over, naturally. Same shit as the Butler video. But let me guess, its different? :oldlol:
4:05, Rose using screens, Lebron recovers, steals the ball, while another defender is hedging preventing the screen and roll.
5:13, where is the help, traps, etc that you talk about? Once again a clear out for Rose, and he goes to the hoop and gets a pretty generous call. Great D by Lebron again with no help.
Last play, Lebron does a great job staying with Rose until Gibson I think sets the screen high. Naturally another defender will be there to help.

Literally every play involving the two... lol.
Plus the two plays from game 4 on an island. Where is the help?

Where are the traps, help, etc? Stop bullshitting yourself. I know you're sitting there thinking, shit, I'm wrong, and you're too stubborn to admit it.

Lebron - elite man to man defender.

[QUOTE=Dagouch]I think the Bulls need a bonfide 2nd scorer to beat the Heat.

I'd be really curious to see If they could Lamarcus Aldridge on that Team without giving up too much.[/QUOTE]
This exactly. All championship teams need another player that will alleviate some of the pressure the teams best scorer takes. Or sometimes, on those nights when the best scorer doesn't have it, then another guy can step in.

The Bulls dont have that type of player. We can't give the ball to Deng and have him take the game over on offense

[QUOTE=plowking]I honestly knew nothing would change.

You've been shown two plays of the two guys on an island with each other, and Lebron getting the better of him.

Show me which plays, what are you talking about?
[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h-TtcGaUXQY[/url]

Go on... there it is.

Play at 2:05. No help. Great D, and Rose still makes the shot.
3:13, Rose has a whole side cleared out, no help for James, and doesn't drive.
3:21 Lebron does a great job staying with him, and gets UD to hedge over, naturally. Same shit as the Butler video. But let me guess, its different? :oldlol:
4:05, Rose using screens, Lebron recovers, steals the ball, while another defender is hedging preventing the screen and roll.
5:13, where is the help, traps, etc that you talk about? Once again a clear out for Rose, and he goes to the hoop and gets a pretty generous call. Great D by Lebron again with no help.
Last play, Lebron does a great job staying with Rose until Gibson I think sets the screen high. Naturally another defender will be there to help.

Literally every play involving the two... lol.
Plus the two plays from game 4 on an island. Where is the help?

Where are the traps, help, etc? Stop bullshitting yourself. I know you're sitting there thinking, shit, I'm wrong, and you're too stubborn to admit it.

Lebron - elite man to man defender.[/QUOTE]
I'm gonna be straight up honest here. He doesn't know that he's wrong. I don't think he even understands what traps or help D even is. He's heard of few trolls claim LeBron is a bad man defender, so he's just rolling with it. In his mind, anyone disagreeing must be nothing more than a delusional LeBron stan. Even though he doesn't understand the issue, the one that is negative against LeBron must be true.

[QUOTE=plowking]I honestly knew nothing would change.

You've been shown two plays of the two guys on an island with each other, and Lebron getting the better of him.

Show me which plays, what are you talking about?
[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h-TtcGaUXQY[/url]

Go on... there it is.

Play at 2:05. No help. Great D, and Rose still makes the shot.
3:13, Rose has a whole side cleared out, no help for James, and doesn't drive.
3:21 Lebron does a great job staying with him, and gets UD to hedge over, naturally. Same shit as the Butler video. But let me guess, its different? :oldlol:
4:05, Rose using screens, Lebron recovers, steals the ball, while another defender is hedging preventing the screen and roll.
5:13, where is the help, traps, etc that you talk about? Once again a clear out for Rose, and he goes to the hoop and gets a pretty generous call. Great D by Lebron again with no help.
Last play, Lebron does a great job staying with Rose until Gibson I think sets the screen high. Naturally another defender will be there to help.

Literally every play involving the two... lol.
Plus the two plays from game 4 on an island. Where is the help?

Where are the traps, help, etc? Stop bullshitting yourself. I know you're sitting there thinking, shit, I'm wrong, and you're too stubborn to admit it.

Lebron - elite man to man defender.[/QUOTE]

I already used my limited data usage watching those other two vids (No shit). I am currently waiting for a new Telstra service to be installed with a big data plan, so I have to be careful ATM.

I am dying to address your points but I won't be able to watch it for myself.

Give me a week and I'll come back with a response to this. I guarantee that you are seeing things again :oldlol: You see what you want to see, we are both accusing each other of the same thing. I think I'm right and so do you? :confusedshrug:

I'm never going to convince you that Lebron's shit don't stink...

[QUOTE=NumberSix]I'm gonna be straight up honest here. He doesn't know that he's wrong. I don't think he even understands what traps or help D even is. He's heard of few trolls claim LeBron is a bad man defender, so he's just rolling with it. In his mind, anyone disagreeing must be nothing more than a delusional LeBron stan. Even though he doesn't understand the issue, the one that is negative against LeBron must be true.[/QUOTE]

And you have conveniently come half way through our discussion with no other intention but join in against a Bulls fan and to troll me. Another quality poster, well done :applause:

By all means, go back to our earlier discussions on this, think it might even carry over from another thread where I clearly explained help D, man defense, weakside D, but I'm not going to go through all that again and it explain it again it is tiring...

[QUOTE=poido123]And you have conveniently come half way through our discussion with no other intention but join in against a Bulls fan and to troll me. Another quality poster, well done :applause:

By all means, go back to our earlier discussions on this, think it might even carry over from another thread where I clearly explained help D, man defense, weakside D, but I'm not going to go through all that again and it explain it again it is tiring...[/QUOTE]
Well, what would you have me do? You're having video evidence presented to you and you're unable to see what is clearly in front of your face. What am I supposed to say to that? It's not other people who are saying they'll rebut your nonsense claims a week from now. You somehow think your nonsense warrants respectability.

You need to just admit that you were wrong or simply don't understand. There's no other out here. We're not all so stupid that you're going to convince us that what we're seeing on tape simply isn't happening.

[QUOTE=NumberSix]Well, what would you have me do? You're having video evidence presented to you and you're unable to see what is clearly in front of your face. What am I supposed to say to that? It's not other people who are saying they'll rebut your nonsense claims a week from now. You need to just admit that you were wrong or simply don't understand. There's no other out here. We're not all so stupid that you're going to convince us that what we're seeing on tape simply isn't happening.[/QUOTE]


So the people who refute my claim is you (top 5 trolls on ISH), Plowking(never has a bad word to say about Lebron), who else? Oh, Trollsmasher (another top 5 troll on ISH) :roll: :roll: :roll:

Well I cannot possibly disagree with those people can I? :oldlol:

I know of 4 people who agreed with me off the top of my head, NightProwler, Tpols, and DeSaba (big heat fan), Aj1987(another Heat fan) and can't remember who else. But of course you didn't bother to look at the whole discussion and made quick assumptions like you usually do...

[QUOTE=SilkkTheShocker]:oldlol:

Beasley is a ****ing scrub. Oden is the guy opposing teams should be afraid of playing.[/QUOTE]

Beasley can explode in a few games

Well this topic has been predictable.

[QUOTE=poido123]So the people who refute my claim is you (top 5 trolls on ISH), Plowking(never has a bad word to say about Lebron), who else? Oh, Trollsmasher (another top 5 troll on ISH) :roll: :roll: :roll:

Well I cannot possibly disagree with those people can I? :oldlol:

I know of 4 people who agreed with me off the top of my head, NightProwler, Tpols, and DeSaba (big heat fan), Aj1987(another Heat fan) and can't remember who else. But of course you didn't bother to look at the whole discussion and made quick assumptions like you usually do...[/QUOTE]
You're not disagreeing with people, you're disagreeing with video proof.

pedo123 you are embarassing yourself.

The Bulls guard LeBron with the entire team. First they put a good athlete like Jimmy Butler on him. But as soon as LeBron makes any sort of move to the basket the defense collapses. This is most obvious with Joakim Noah who makes sure he is shadowing LeBron behind Jimmy.

The Spurs did the exact same thing with Kawhi Leonard and Duncan.

Edit: And now I see your somehow trying to argue against LeBron when Rose shot 6.3% from the field when being primarily defended by him. :oldlol: You got the statistics, you got the footage. LeBron made him his boo and stole that MVP away from him just like Hakeem-Robinson in 95. :oldlol:

[QUOTE=TonyMontana]pedo123 you are embarassing yourself.

The Bulls guard LeBron with the entire team. First they put a good athlete like Jimmy Butler on him. But as soon as LeBron makes any sort of move to the basket the defense collapses. This is most obvious with Joakim Noah who makes sure he is shadowing LeBron behind Jimmy.

The Spurs did the exact same thing with Kawhi Leonard and Duncan.

Edit: And now I see your somehow trying to argue against LeBron when Rose shot 6.3% from the field when being primarily defended by him. :oldlol: You got the statistics, you got the footage. LeBron made him his boo and stole that MVP away from him just like Hakeem-Robinson in 95. :oldlol:[/QUOTE]


The Heat guarded Rose a lot like that too but ppl act like Lebron held him down solo like a one-on-one game, smh....and flashback to the regular season Rose gave Lebron buckets with ease.

Lebron played poorly in his first HUGE series versus the more experienced Spurs and he got better and learned from his mistakes. I expect Rose to do the same, well, I hope....

[QUOTE=TonyMontana]pedo123 you are embarassing yourself.

The Bulls guard LeBron with the entire team. First they put a good athlete like Jimmy Butler on him. But as soon as LeBron makes any sort of move to the basket the defense collapses. This is most obvious with Joakim Noah who makes sure he is shadowing LeBron behind Jimmy.

The Spurs did the exact same thing with Kawhi Leonard and Duncan.

Edit: And now I see your somehow trying to argue against LeBron when Rose shot 6.3% from the field when being primarily defended by him. :oldlol: You got the statistics, you got the footage. LeBron made him his boo and stole that MVP away from him just like Hakeem-Robinson in 95. :oldlol:[/QUOTE]
Butler did a great job on James plain and simple. He fought over screens and picks, moved his feet, and most importantly, made James go left. Did he have help on some occasions? Sure. But id give 85% credit to Butler.

James on the other hand had plenty of help. Never really had to fight over any real picks, and just dared Rose to shoot.

While I still believe the Bulls need a second guy to help out Rose, I do feel the Bulls have a shot with the personnel they have. A player like Lamarcus Aldridge would just make it an all but guarantee.

[QUOTE=97 bulls]Butler did a great job on James plain and simple. He fought over screens and picks, moved his feet, and most importantly, made James go left. Did he have help on some occasions? Sure. [B]But id give 85% credit to Butler.
[/B]
James on the other hand had plenty of help. Never really had to fight over any real picks, and just dared Rose to shoot.

While I still believe the Bulls need a second guy to help out Rose, I do feel the Bulls have a shot with the personnel they have. A player like Lamarcus Aldridge would just make it an all but guarantee.[/QUOTE]

Jesus Christ, you're delusional. Watch the footage again. They collapse anytime LeBron tried to drive. You Chicago fans aren't too smart. Than again, you're more likely to get shot in the face than get a high school education when living in that shit hole

[QUOTE=poido123]That's the opposite of what I saw.

You're so fustrating, it's unbearable right now...:facepalm

Again, that video particularly the first 3 or so minutes shows the amount of high screen help and defense traps set by guys helping Lebron. The moment rose got inside 10 to 12 feet another guy was helping Bron cut his driving lane off or forcing him into bad areas, which proves my earlier point about the swarming help defense the Heat played and not the man defense you want to make up.

And to think we lost this game up 8 with 2 minutes to go and up 7 with just over 1 and a half minutes to go...

The idiot Heat fans who thought this was not a close series :oldlol:

All of the games were within 10 points around the last quarter except for Game 1 in which Bulls blew the Heat out,...[/QUOTE]
These guys are idiots. There one play where Haslem is even motioning James to come back for a trap. Thats all they did the whole series. James is livin off those two plays where Rose missed in I believe game four.

[QUOTE=SilkkTheShocker]Jesus Christ, you're delusional. Watch the footage again. They collapse anytime LeBron tried to drive. You Chicago fans aren't too smart. Than again, you're more likely to get shot in the face than get a high school education when living in that shit hole[/QUOTE]
I watched both clips as well as both series. Butler shut James down. The only reason youd see another Bulls defender is because his man was comming over to set a pick on Butler to free James.

And granted, when James did get to the basket he (Butler) had help. But thats the game. Butler's job is to make James go left, and contest his jumpshot. He did an admirable job.

Heres the vid.
[url]https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CCgQtwIwAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fm.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DLHwMkn6tvnE%26desktop_uri%3D%252Fwatch%253Fv%253DLHwMkn6tvnE&ei=A15YUuWvDeiK4AS8soGgCw&usg=AFQjCNGpTYF7n0DOBi4Q8PoGoh-gojsqew[/url]

[QUOTE=97 bulls]Butler did a great job on James plain and simple. He fought over screens and picks, moved his feet, [B]and most importantly, made James go left.[/B] Did he have help on some occasions? Sure. But id give 85% credit to Butler.

James on the other hand had plenty of help. Never really had to fight over any real picks, and just dared Rose to shoot.

While I still believe the Bulls need a second guy to help out Rose, I do feel the Bulls have a shot with the personnel they have. A player like Lamarcus Aldridge would just make it an all but guarantee.[/QUOTE]
What is important about that? You clearly have no idea of what you are talking about:lol

[QUOTE=Trollsmasher]What is important about that? You clearly have no idea of what you are talking about:lol[/QUOTE]

Watch. He's gonna bring up that bs where Jordan said the way to beat Lebron is to make him go left.

I just watched the vid again. I can count more times when Butler did get help as opposed to not. He really did man up James on his own.

[QUOTE=Trollsmasher]What is important about that? You clearly have no idea of what you are talking about:lol[/QUOTE]
Lol you clearly don't know a damn thing about basketball. Id bet your some fat outta shap nerd that doenst even watch the game but just the recap on ESPN.

[QUOTE=HoopsFanNumero1]Watch. He's gonna bring up that bs where Jordan said the way to beat Lebron is to make him go left.[/QUOTE]
Lol you're as dumb as the other kid.

[QUOTE=97 bulls]Lol you clearly don't know a damn thing about basketball. Id bet your some fat outta shap nerd that doenst even watch the game but just the recap on ESPN.[/QUOTE]
So tell me - what is good about forcing LeBron left when he is better at driving left while also having an option to take a jump shot while going left?:lol

[QUOTE=Trollsmasher]So tell me - what is good about forcing LeBron left when he is better at driving left while also having an option to take a jump shot while going left?:lol[/QUOTE]
Because James doesnt shoot off the dribble. Hes a set shooter. If he goes, hes going all the way more often than not. And hes not a efficient when going to his left.

[QUOTE=SilkkTheShocker]Jesus Christ, you're delusional. Watch the footage again. They collapse anytime LeBron tried to drive. You Chicago fans aren't too smart. [B]Than[/B] again, you're more likely to get shot in the face than get a high school education when living in that shit hole[/QUOTE]

I guess you never got a high school education neither.

to all my bulls brethrens. dont take these lebron dick riders seriously, they are lebron stans not miami heat fans. they are deathly afraid of what might come. lets sit back and see what happens, i promise we will have the last laugh :lol

Only low IQ bball fans actually believe Butler shut down Lebron. Lebron was surrounded each time he got into the paint. Noah is the best defensive player on that team. It's no different than the Spurs with Duncan in the paint, packing the paint. Low IQ fans think everything is 1 on 1 and try to simplify things because it's what NBA jam told them. They get enamored by overrated perimeter scrubs like Brandon Jennings who play "sexy" while underappreciating the best defenders who are centers like Noah and Duncan.

[QUOTE=97 bulls]Because James doesnt shoot off the dribble. Hes a set shooter. If he goes, hes going all the way more often than not. And hes not a efficient when going to his left.[/QUOTE]
Too bad he is more efficient going left than right. Try again

LeBron..........Tendency In Isolation
Drives left:................ 34%
Drives right:............... 28%
Jumper no drive:......... 38%

Points Per Play Based On Decision
............................Score Pct<<
Drive left......1.14........ 60%
Drive right....0.96.........48%
Jumper no drive... 1.04...46%
>>Pct of plays that result in points

[QUOTE=secund2nun]Only low IQ bball fans actually believe Butler shut down Lebron. Lebron was surrounded each time he got into the paint. Noah is the best defensive player on that team. It's no different than the Spurs with Duncan in the paint, packing the paint. Low IQ fans think everything is 1 on 1 and try to simplify things because it's what NBA jam told them. They get enamored by overrated perimeter scrubs like Brandon Jennings who play "sexy" while underappreciating the best defenders who are centers like Noah and Duncan.[/QUOTE]
I posted the video. A large portion of it was James in the post and taking a couple jab steps and pulling up. I acknowledged that someone came over to help on some drives to the rim but fir the most part, it was all Butler.

[QUOTE=nathanjizzle]I guess you never got a high school education neither.[/QUOTE]
[IMG]http://www.pleated-jeans.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/demotivationalposters-org.jpeg[/IMG]

[QUOTE=Trollsmasher]Too bad he is more efficient going left than right. Try again

LeBron..........Tendency In Isolation
Drives left:................ 34%
Drives right:............... 28%
Jumper no drive:......... 38%

Points Per Play Based On Decision
............................Score Pct<<
Drive left......1.14........ 60%
Drive right....0.96.........48%
Jumper no drive... 1.04...46%
>>Pct of plays that result in points[/QUOTE]
Lol. Dumbass. All this shows is how often he goes left and right. Much of which is dictated by how the defender is playing him. Which is exactly what was shown in the video.

So if hes being forced left more often than right, would it not be safe to conclude hes probably going to score more going left?


Edit: I apologize for calling you a dumbass. You're just a fool

[QUOTE=97 bulls]Lol. Dumbass. All this shows is how often he goes left and right. Much of which is dictated by how the defender is playing him. Which is exactly what was shown in the video.

So if hes being forced left more often than right, would it not be safe to conclude hes probably going to score more going left?


Edit: I apologize for calling you a dumbass. You're just a fool[/QUOTE]
And Points per Play for driving both left and right is nothing for you I guess?

[QUOTE=secund2nun]Only low IQ bball fans actually believe Butler shut down Lebron. Lebron was surrounded each time he got into the paint. Noah is the best defensive player on that team. It's no different than the Spurs with Duncan in the paint, packing the paint. Low IQ fans think everything is 1 on 1 and try to simplify things because it's what NBA jam told them. They get enamored by overrated perimeter scrubs like Brandon Jennings who play "sexy" while underappreciating the best defenders who are centers like Noah and Duncan.[/QUOTE]
Thats the difference between Bulls fans and posters such as you. We acknowledge that on occasions, Butler did have help. You guys feel as if when James was assigned to Rose, all the other Heat defenders took a seat in the stands and watched with the rest of the fans.