Dominique Wilkins: Kobe Bryant in his prime better all around player than Lebron

[QUOTE=ripthekik][B]If you were asked who's better, Bird or MJ, wouldn't you just answer MJ then? [/B]Why the hell would you need to bring up Bird's prime is better since MJ wasn't in his prime yet? Makes no sense. Typical numbersix.[/QUOTE]
Not if you're purposely avoiding answering the question. :hammerhead:


Your little games fail.

[QUOTE=Smoke117]I'm 30 and if Kobe is a better all round player than Lebron in his prime than I'm jesus ****ing christ. What a load of shit. Dominique isn't even a guy known for his "all around game", so why is he even talking about this? Is Karl Malone going to come around now and talk about the pg's of today? How they suck compared to John Stockton?[/QUOTE]

Such a stupid ass comment, my mind is seriously shattered.

According to your analogy, PRO basketball players who have played basketball for the main portion of their lives, only supposed to know their own position?? Jesus Christ. There are lots of die hard fans who never played ball in their lives. How do they know anything about ball at all?

Nvm.. Not even going to go into detail how idiot you just sounded. :hammerhead:

So any NBA players word is gospel?

[QUOTE=Dro]No, he's not comparing their primes to each other..He's saying each was the better all around player when they were both respectively in their primes...Not that one's prime is better than the others...[/QUOTE] J.J. Reddick in his prime better all-around player than Ray Allen.

>pointless statement
>people thinking Dominique makes pointless statements

What you guys want to believe he said makes zero sense and nobody speaks like that. People compare primes to primes.

[QUOTE=ripthekik]If you were asked who's better, Bird or MJ, wouldn't you just answer MJ then? Why the hell would you need to bring up Bird's prime is better since MJ wasn't in his prime yet? Makes no sense. Typical numbersix.[/QUOTE]
What you just posted made absolutely no sense and demonstrated once again your lack of social skills. NBA players/politicians/anyone with a brain who isn't like ripthekik does not answer a stupid question like who is better who is not. Look at Phil bloody Jackson, when asked who was better MJ or Kobe he just highlighted each players individual characteristics and strengths. Only simpletons like you would think the world is so simple.:lol

LOL Dominique Wilkins is a low IQ bball fan. Lebron is far superior than Kobe....leagues above Mr. first round loser in his prime Kobe Bryant.

Come on Mr. Human Highlight Reel. Lebron is a career 28/7/7

[QUOTE=Jameerthefear][B]a lot do[/B]. what do people even consider peak kobe? '06? i could argue multiple years of lbj over kobe's peak.[/QUOTE]

LOL. A lot = current teens who think being gay is cool.

Imagine a much bigger, stronger, faster Kobe with better vision & passing ability.... which essentially helps aid him to get more rebounds, assists, score more efficiently and make him one of the most versatile 2-way players in NBA history being able to play AND guard basically any position on both ends... wouldnt you say that Kobe is now a more prominent all-round player than his regular self? No?

[QUOTE=Ca$H]LOL. A lot = current teens who think being gay is cool.[/QUOTE]

It must suck to know that there is literally no argument to be had in your favor yet feeling the need to reply anyway. :oldlol:

[QUOTE=pauk]Imagine a much bigger, stronger, faster Kobe with better vision & passing ability.... which essentially helps aid him to get more rebounds, assists, score more efficiently and make him one of the most versatile 2-way players in NBA history being able to play AND guard basically any position on both ends... wouldnt you say that Kobe is now a more prominent all-round player than his regular self? No?[/QUOTE]
but a kobe with no heart, needs a stacked team to win, front runner, disappears in the 4th is not a better Kobe.

[QUOTE=MavsSuperFan]This is why when people make the argument that fans cant disagree with players I :facepalm.[/QUOTE]

Exactly, players have different opinions anyway, so either way, a fan is gonna be disagreeing with a professional player.

I read it as Kobe in his prime is better than the best Lebron so far, but Kobe's old now so obviously current Lebron is better than current Kobe.

[QUOTE=pauk]Imagine a much bigger, stronger, faster Kobe [/QUOTE]
Then there would be no discussion, Kobe would shit on Lebron. Pretty obvious.

[QUOTE=riseagainst]I read it as Kobe in his prime is better than the best Lebron so far, but Kobe's old now so obviously current Lebron is better than current Kobe.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE]Seems like to me he is saying that when Kobe was in his prime, he was the better all around player which is obvious because Lebron was not in his prime yet. Then he's saying now Lebron is the better overall player because he is in HIS prime which is obvious because Kobe is not in his prime anymore. So at the end of the day, it sounds like he's just using common sense and not really committing to a concrete answer[/QUOTE]

He didn't say either was better than the other at ALL...I don't see how any non-biased fan does not understand what he said. He didn't even have to say all of that to give a PC answer but he did for whatever reason.

:Edit-actually, re-reading your post, we are pretty much saying the same thing...I thought the way you worded it was tricky but upon reading it again, you're saying the same thing I'm saying. If was the "best Lebron" that I had a problem with at first but you added the "so far" which makes it basically the same thing I was saying, lol.

Kobe was definitively the better player until the 2009 season. That's when LeBron grabbed a hold of the best player title and hasn't let it go since. Kobe's longevity is super impressive, but peak for peak, LeBron is probably better.

Another way he could have worded it was "AT THAT POINT in their careers, Kobe was better than Lebron because Kobe was in his prime and Lebron wasn't yet...AT THIS POINT Lebron is better because he's in his prime and Kobe isn't anymore." Thats exactly what he said and I don't see how he's saying one's prime was better than the other at all. If he meant that, he would have said that. He would've said, "Lebron's prime was better than Kobe's', or "Lebron was better in his prime that Kobe was in his", or something to that effect.

Instead, he chose to be completely non-committal, like most dudes are, lol..Thats why we have commitment issues in general, lol

Only delusional Kobe haters would take "Kobe in his prime is the better all around player" to be implicitly excluding present-day LeBron. Like he's saying "prime Kobe is better than LeBron, except for 2013 LeBron!" :facepalm

[QUOTE=SamuraiSWISH]Kobe was definitively the better player until the 2009 season. That's when LeBron grabbed a hold of the best player title and hasn't let it go since. Kobe's longevity is super impressive, but peak for peak, LeBron is probably better.[/QUOTE]


Kobe was never DEFINITIVELY better than LeBron like how LeBron is DEFINITIVELY better than Kobe is the past 3-4 years.

[QUOTE=Solefade]Kobe was never DEFINITIVELY better than LeBron like how LeBron is DEFINITIVELY better than Kobe is the past 3-4 years.[/QUOTE]

Kobe was definitively better than LeBron from 04-06. I would also say he was probably better from 07-08. LeBron took over 09.

Peak-wise, LeBron is unquestionably better IMO. He just more dominant in all facets of the game, except for scoring and man defense.

[QUOTE=SamuraiSWISH]Kobe was definitively the better player until the 2009 season. That's when LeBron grabbed a hold of the best player title and hasn't let it go since. Kobe's longevity is super impressive, but peak for peak, LeBron is probably better.[/QUOTE]

Well said!! The way Bron's game has evolved, I think peak for peak I would lean to Bron. And for me, it's due to Bron's versatility on both sides of the ball as the biggest factor. Kobe is a versatile as a 6'6 perimeter player can be. Great scorer, great passer, great defender, and great rebounder for a guard capable of playing and defending PG, SG, and SF. But Bron is frankly something we have never seen before. It's like combining Big O (ability to get 30 points while being a pass first player, triple double threat), Magic ( triple double threat ,size and passing ability)Dr.J (freak athletic ability, unstoppable scorer) and Scottie Pippen (point forward who can play and defend four positions) into the body of Karl Malone! Lebron flat out redefined the sport while Kobe didn't really redefine the sport, even though he's clearly an immortal top 7 GOAT kind of talent. Bean was just so similar to MJ and u can't out MJ MJ.

[QUOTE=K Xerxes]Kobe was definitively better than LeBron from 04-06. I would also say he was probably better from 07-08. LeBron took over 09.

Peak-wise, LeBron is unquestionably better IMO. He just more dominant in all facets of the game, except for scoring and man defense.[/QUOTE]

I agree with all points! If anything u can't teach Bron's size and skillset. I also agree with your timeline when Bron took the mantle. The interesting thing is that MJ was better than Magic and Bird due to his mainly athletic ability and defense. All three could take the game by throat scoring in different ways. But the clear separation was MJ's athletic ability and defense. But what if Magic or Bird had close to MJ's athletic ability or defense. Then I feel those two would likely have the edge on MJ. Because just like Bron, both were the size of many PF's back in their day. So they would have a versatility on both sides of the ball over MJ. Instead of having JUST the offensive versatility on MJ like they had already. Plus they would have the athletic ability to just overwhelm opponents if anything else. That's why Bron, MJ, and Kobe standout to me above the rest in a sense. The total package on both sides of the ball AND freak athletes! But Bron took it to the ultimate level being the size of Karl Malone!!

[QUOTE=bizil]Well said!! The way Bron's game has evolved, I think peak for peak I would lean to Bron. And for me, it's due to Bron's versatility on both sides of the ball as the biggest factor. Kobe is a versatile as a 6'6 perimeter player can be. Great scorer, great passer, great defender, and great rebounder for a guard capable of playing and defending PG, SG, and SF. But Bron is frankly something we have never seen before. It's like combining Big O (ability to get 30 points while being a pass first player, triple double threat), Magic ( triple double threat ,size and passing ability)Dr.J (freak athletic ability, unstoppable scorer) and Scottie Pippen (point forward who can play and defend four positions) into the body of Karl Malone! Lebron flat out redefined the sport while Kobe didn't really redefine the sport, even though he's clearly an immortal top 7 GOAT kind of talent. Bean was just so similar to MJ and u can't out MJ MJ.[/QUOTE]
This was a great post...repped

I think you might get the same kind of shit performance from Kobe in a big game as you would from Bron, it would just be for a different reason.

Gotta say Bron, too. To whoever said "it's really close." It's close, but considering you are comparing two close-to-if-not top 10 players of all time, the gap is significant enough to say it's not.

Obviously most teams in NBA history would trade their best player for either, but Lebron is a clear choice.

-Smak

[QUOTE=bizil]Well said!! The way Bron's game has evolved, I think peak for peak I would lean to Bron. And for me, it's due to Bron's versatility on both sides of the ball as the biggest factor. Kobe is a versatile as a 6'6 perimeter player can be. Great scorer, great passer, great defender, and great rebounder for a guard capable of playing and defending PG, SG, and SF. But Bron is frankly something we have never seen before. It's like combining Big O (ability to get 30 points while being a pass first player, triple double threat), Magic ( triple double threat ,size and passing ability)Dr.J (freak athletic ability, unstoppable scorer) and Scottie Pippen (point forward who can play and defend four positions) into the body of Karl Malone! Lebron flat out redefined the sport while Kobe didn't really redefine the sport, even though he's clearly an immortal top 7 GOAT kind of talent. Bean was just so similar to MJ and u can't out MJ MJ.[/QUOTE]
You keep forgetting that Lebron has done nothing without having 2 all stars in his team. Absolutely nothing. For all of Kobe's 5 rings, all he's had is another all star center.

[QUOTE=ripthekik]You keep forgetting that Lebron has done nothing without having 2 all stars in his team. Absolutely nothing. For all of Kobe's 5 rings, all he's had is another all star center.[/QUOTE]

What's your point? He made the NBA Finals taking Cleveland there back in the day. And he beat the Detroit Pistons, arguably the best Eastern Conference team of the decade resume wise. That's no small feat. And let's face it, that Cleveland team really had no business in that position. But Bron was so great, HE WILLED THEM THERE!! That team had NO OTHER consistent All Star kind of talent.

And u talk about ALL Kobe had was another All Star center! LMAO Well that Shaq is one of the top 7-8 GOAT players of all time. And the MOST PHYSICALLY DOMINANT PLAYER EVER! Peak value wise, the Shaq-Kobe combo could be the best combo of all time peak value wise. How dare u say all Kobe had was another All Star center. **** that, Shaq is an immortal icon who changed basketball. And Shaq was the MAN on those Lakers teams, not Kobe. Sure Kobe was an alpha dog and 1B. But Shaq at his peak is arguably the best center of all time peak value wise! Shaq and Kobe is closest thing we have seen to having Wilt and MJ on the same team. Hell, I would rather have a Shaq-Kobe pairing than a Bron-Wade-Bosh trio! LOL That's how dominant Shaq-Kobe were!

[QUOTE=bizil]What's your point? He made the NBA Finals taking Cleveland there back in the day. And he beat the Detroit Pistons, arguably the best Eastern Conference team of the decade resume wise. That's no small feat. And let's face it, that Cleveland team really had no business in that position. But Bron was so great, HE WILLED THEM THERE!! That team had NO OTHER consistent All Star kind of talent.

And u talk about ALL Kobe had was another All Star center! LMAO Well that Shaq is one of the top 7-8 GOAT players of all time. And the MOST PHYSICALLY DOMINANT PLAYER EVER! Peak value wise, the Shaq-Kobe combo could be the best combo of all time peak value wise. How dare u say all Kobe had was another All Star center. **** that, Shaq is an immortal icon who changed basketball. And Shaq was the MAN on those Lakers teams, not Kobe. Sure Kobe was an alpha dog and 1B. But Shaq at his peak is arguably the best center of all time peak value wise! Shaq and Kobe is closest thing we have seen to having Wilt and MJ on the same team. Hell, I would rather have a Shaq-Kobe pairing than a Bron-Wade-Bosh trio! LOL That's how dominant Shaq-Kobe were![/QUOTE]
For your first paragraph, my point is that all that translated to 0 rings.

For your second paragraph, did you forget that he won 2 rings with Pau Gasol? Is Pau Gasol another all time dominant great that you will write another paragraph about?

Think about it. Another all star center is all Kobe needed. Lebron needed an all star starting Guard and PF/C.

[QUOTE=ripthekik]For your first paragraph, my point is that all that translated to 0 rings.

For your second paragraph, did you forget that he won 2 rings with Pau Gasol? Is Pau Gasol another all time dominant great that you will write another paragraph about?

Think about it. Another all star center is all Kobe needed. Lebron needed an all star starting Guard and PF/C.[/QUOTE]

Without internet searching in detail, wasn't Pau putting up 20 and 10 on 50%? LeBron has never had a player that was able to put up those numbers. And don't forget Lamar Odom, and flashes of Bynum. Kobe had a good team, that's why he won. Just like every champion had a good team. Just like LeBron has a good team. etc.

[QUOTE=ripthekik]For your first paragraph, my point is that all that translated to 0 rings.

For your second paragraph, did you forget that he won 2 rings with Pau Gasol? Is Pau Gasol another all time dominant great that you will write another paragraph about?

Think about it. Another all star center is all Kobe needed. Lebron needed an all star starting Guard and PF/C.[/QUOTE]


If u put Lebron with Dirk in Dallas, he would get a ring. U wouldn't need much at all with that combo. And to top it off, Dirk isn't even a back to the basket dominant big. Lebron had teams in Cleveland that weren't simply capable of winning a ring. If u put Kobe in Lebron's place the results would have been the same. Which IS NO RING!!

Lebron could win with just AN ALL STAR CENTER too! What the hell are u trying to say? And to top it off, Lebron is a pass first guy who can still get u 30 night. Which means a guy like a Shaq would be enhanced even more with Bron than he would with Kobe. If Lebron is in place of Kobe on those rings, the Lakers win a minimum of six rings EASY! Shaq would have stayed in LA UNTIL he retired with Lebron there. Shaq wanted out of LA because he and Kobe couldn't get along. I've heard both Kobe and Shaq say that shit. And they say they both regret it looking back.

So what the hell is your point in these posts? Are u trying to say that Magic couldn't win without four other HOFers. Becasue that's what he had with Kareem, Worthy, Wilkes and McAdoo. Plus Magic also played with another all star guard in Norm Nixon. U mean to tell me Bird couldn't win without four other HOFers? Because that's what he had with Parish, McHale, DJ, and Walton. Plus another All-Star in Ainge? Bron is on the same level of Magic and Bird flat out. So if u are saying this shit about Lebron, u better say that about basically half or more of the NBA 50 greatest list. Because many of those guys had the fortune of playing for mastermind coaches and GM's WHOSE JOB is to put the best team on the floor. U can't penalize those guys for trying to stack the deck and construct teams to win. That's the name of the game.

And frankly, man for man, teams like Indiana have more depth 1-12 than Miami does. Miami NEVER was the deepest team in the L. They were just top heavy as hell with two HOFers and a multiple time All Star. In the annual of NBA champs, there have been SEVERAL TEAMS DEEPER THAN THE MIAMI HEAT!! So if u are knocking Bron, u better knock Magic, Bird, Dr.J, Moses, Kareem, Wilt, West, and many immortal kind of guys!! The name of the game is to construct the best team to win!!

Kobe had a 4 game stretch in which he scored 60 twice.

The other two games were 50 point games.

:bowdown:

And don't say chucker. Anyone who characterizes Kobe as a "chucker" just doesn't know basketball. Chuckers don't win. Karl Malone used to sing Kobe's praises before the hunting Mexican girls incident. Said his bball iq was off the charts.

Fwiw, scoring is the best way to make an impact and take over a game. Going out there and having 20 point quarters to put teams away was something routine for Kobe.

I'll never forget watching the 61 at MSG. I've never seen a player have opposing arenas give him standing ovations and completely turn on the home team like Kobe.

Here comes another ether, rip. You made me do it. You keep bringing up how LBJ had "2 all stars." Well, here you go.

Pau Gasol during the playoffs to help Kobe win a ring

2009: 18-11 on 58%! with 2 blocks
2010: 20-11 on 54% with 2 blocks

Is that not an amazing second option? 20-11 on 54% with 2 blocks during the playoffs. I can't even think of that many players that can average that (as a second option).

The point is simple. Every Finals MVP needed help to get there. Had the Spur won game 6, and they gave the Finals MVP to Duncan/Parker, would the other guy that didn't win get a lot of praise as well? What about Danny Green and all those 3s he splashed in, Leonard, etc. TEAMS win ships, not individuals.

And, now that you got me digging into this even more, is Lamar Odom not close to equal that of Chris Bosh?

Lamar Odom PO:
2009: 12-9 on 52%
2010: 10-9 on 47%

Chris Bosh PO:
2012: 14-8 on 49%
2013: 12-7 on 46%


...

:coleman:

So can we stop with the bullshit "LeBron had 2 all-stars" stuff? I dont' think you're a troll, just misinformed.

Clearly Wade's help was much less than Gasol's. And Odom's help was equal to Bosh's help in the playoffs.

[QUOTE=TheCorporation]Without internet searching in detail, wasn't Pau putting up 20 and 10 on 50%? LeBron has never had a player that was able to put up those numbers. And don't forget Lamar Odom, and flashes of Bynum. Kobe had a good team, that's why he won. Just like every champion had a good team. Just like LeBron has a good team. etc.[/QUOTE]

Exactly right! Lebron has NEVER played with a dominant low post big man. Bosh is awesome, but he's more of a faceup PF. Shaq is the most dominant big man of all time on the block. Pau is one of the top 10 most skilled PF's on the block of all time. And Pau is a great passing big man who can also faceup midrange wise and kill u. Bron never played with these kind of big men. And as u pointed out, Kobe has had the luxury of guys who were ALL regarded as amongst the best bigs on the block. ANd u can't forget Odom like u said, one of the most versatile players of all time. And u can't forget Glen Rice a three time all star and stretched the floor for the Lakers at the peak of his career. Rice was still lighting shit up big time and settled in to be the third option to play sniper (kind of like what Ray did later for Boston) for a ring. As a whole Kobe had WAY MORE HELP over his career than Bron did. Bron just started getting real help when he went to Miami.

Exactly, my point was that Kobe had 1 great all star teammate (which I acknowledged). Bynum? Please, look at his stats. 7 pts 5 reb is great? Odom? Please.

I'm not just spitting out random things.. the 2 all stars is a FACT. Bosh and Wade were both all stars for the last two years and beyond, and in fact last year as Heats, they were all star starters. Those are absolute FACTS. Meanwhile Pau is the only all star Kobe has had in the 2peat and he wasn't even a starter!

Who cares about the stats they (Bosh) put up? I always go back to the same example. In the Dream Team, would MJ, Barkley, Bird still put up their NBA stats? You don't think their stats would drop? Is it because they are playing at a lower level? Please.

[QUOTE=ripthekik]Exactly, my point was that Kobe had 1 great all star teammate (which I acknowledged). Bynum? Please, look at his stats. 7 pts 5 reb is great? Odom? Please.

I'm not just spitting out random things.. the 2 all stars is a FACT. Bosh and Wade were both all stars for the last two years and beyond, and in fact last year as Heats, they were all star starters. Those are absolute FACTS. Meanwhile Pau is the only all star Kobe has had in the 2peat and he wasn't even a starter!

Who cares about the stats they (Bosh) put up? I always go back to the same example. In the Dream Team, would MJ, Barkley, Bird still put up their NBA stats? You don't think their stats would drop? Is it because they are playing at a lower level? Please.[/QUOTE]


You're lost big time! Before Bron went to Miami, who had the better supporting cast throughout there careers. EASILY KOBE! Bron saw all those teams out there with multiple all stars and knew he had to go somewhere to compete against them. Bron can turn chicken shit into chicken salad, he proved that earlier in his career long ago. The man did all he could do in Cleveland. And Pau is a beast at his best. Bron never played with a big close to Pau before he went to Miami. Like I said if u r gonna penalize Bron, u gotta penalize Bird and Magic too. Bird and Magic had teams WAY more stacked than Miami. Those guys had 4-5 HOFers on their teams, not just All Stars. Miami just has two for sure HOFers, Bron and Wade. Bosh has an outside shot I think. But even at that, that's LESS than the HOF talent Bird and Magic had in their arsenal. Give it up man, u fighting a losing battle with your posts!! :facepalm :facepalm :facepalm :facepalm :coleman:

[QUOTE=ripthekik;9218075][url]http://espn.go.com/sportsnation/chat/_/id/49529[/url]

Another day, another legend that recognizes Kobe over Lebron. Nothing new.:confusedshrug:[/QUOTE]

Agreed!

[QUOTE=kawhileonard2;14514713]Agreed![/QUOTE]

The real ones know.

Dominique Wilkins is wrong

Lenotthatgood