The more I watch Lebron the more I am starting to think he's better than MJ

Lebron has combined elite scoring with elite passing. It is amazing.

We are witnesses.


What are the chances that any one of the next few great Nba scorers also are elite passers? Very small. There will probably be another 30 year gap between we see another one like Lebron (and bird 30 years before him).

[QUOTE=TheMan]You conviniently omitted what happened in game 5 :oldlol:

I think we can agree MJ more than made up those missed FTs with The Shot :rockon:[/QUOTE]


same can be said for Lebron in many scenarios where he's missed FTs...has he not proved to be successful after failures? 2007 and 2011 to now 2012 and 2013? no one is perfect, yet Lebron is expected to be due to irrational thinking

that is my point of the response

:wtf:Bird retired in 92 and Bran came into the NBA in 02:confusedshrug:

[QUOTE=riseagainst]it's actually the opposite for me. The more I watch lebron the more I am starting to think there is absolutely no comparison between these two players and that MJ is much better.[/QUOTE]

:applause:

Better basketball player? that's a debate, Jordan is the better shooter but don't know if he's better scorer, Lebron is the better passer, Defensively, they're similar, i give a slight edge to Lebron because his size allows him to guard 1-5.

Better on all-time list, Lebron still needs 5 rings + 5-6mvps, long way ahead of him.

[QUOTE=TheMan]:wtf:Bird retired in 92 and Bran came into the NBA in 02:confusedshrug:[/QUOTE]

Bird peaked in the early 80's.

Lebron peaked in 2009, or 2013.

[QUOTE=tmacattack33]Bird peaked in the early 80's.

Lebron peaked in 2009, or 2013.[/QUOTE]
Who cares about peaks, both players were great passers from the get go. Just admit that "30 years" was waaay off.

[QUOTE=leMVP]Better basketball player? that's a debate, Jordan is the better shooter [B][SIZE="4"]but don't know if he's better scorer[/SIZE][/B], Lebron is the better passer, Defensively, they're similar, i give a slight edge to Lebron because his size allows him to guard 1-5.

Better on all-time list, Lebron still needs 5 rings + 5-6mvps, long way ahead of him.[/QUOTE]

:no:

[QUOTE=riseagainst]:no:[/QUOTE]
I saw that and was going to respond but if he's that clueless, then why waste my time:rolleyes:

[QUOTE=riseagainst]:no:[/QUOTE]

Overall scoring ability, Lebron is ranked 3rd all-time in this department, and he doesn't have a scoring-first mentality.

it's debatable, I think personally Jordan is better, but not by huge margin like some ppl would suggest.

[QUOTE=leMVP]Overall scoring ability, Lebron is ranked 3rd all-time in this department, and he doesn't have a scoring-first mentality.

it's debatable, I think personally Jordan is better, but not by huge margin like some ppl would suggest.[/QUOTE]


MJ is def the better scorer...that can't be argued with comparison to Lebron (and it's not even a knock on Lebron), but the game itself involves so much more than just scoring and that is where Lebron starts to gain ground to challenge MJ in my opinion.

[QUOTE=nathanjizzle]straight up, youre stupid.

lebron has alot to prove to be better than jordan. and that ship has already sailed. I mean, just tonight, he had a freethrow to break 50 and his record for most points scored in the post season, but he missed. jordan doesnt even have that kind of mental weakness.[/QUOTE]

that right there is why you cant imagine bronny ever beating prime jordan or even prime kobe.

they would never miss that last free throw. they'd take the win AND the 50 and shove it down your throat.

smh at all these knee jerk reactions after a good game by lebron/kobe/kd. a great game/great milestone every once in a while all of a sudden trumps jordan's legacy with all his much more frequent great games/moments.

imagine if jordan was playing today and did what he did exactly the way he did it back in his day, with performances that routinely *hit on 99% of other players great games. AND with great frequency. and without any notable mental lapses. now take today's kneejerk reactions to bron/kd/kobe's great games. scale it up to something better and more frequent. then it would be like there's no comparison. there would be jordan, then there would be everyone else in a far distant tier below him.

It breaks my heart, but as great as LeBron is, there is 0% chance of him being as great as Jordan was. If the rest of his career unfolds in storybook fashion, he may catch him in accolades/accomplishments... if things play out the right way, the media consensus might even crown him GOAT (like if they 5-peat or something ridiculous)... but to those of us who understand the game and were there to watch it throughout the 1990s, the truth is obvious. In terms of sheer impact on the court, we have seen LeBron's peak and it is just not of the same caliber that Michael Jordan's was. Jordan from 1991-1993 was just the ultimate competitive sports athlete.

You could make the case because of his much more dominant presence and the way he could impose his will and make his opponents lose their confidence, or you could point out something as simple as his infinitely more devastating midrange game, which allowed him to score at will against any defender. You could make the case because of his uninterrupted knack for elevating his game in the playoffs and again in the finals, always bringing his A-game to the biggest stage, or you could point to the fact that even though LeBron is universally recognized as a better passer (which I agree with), Jordan averaged over 11 APG in his first NBA Finals :wtf: ... You could compare Jordan's statistical years that LeBron will never touch:

1989 - 32.5 PPG 8.0 APG 8.0 RPG .538 FG% .850 FT%

or you could just use the eye test:

[IMG]http://img.pandawhale.com/post-22318-Michael-Jordan-ball-fake-gif-SvYu.gif[/IMG]

But no matter how you slice it, Jordan > LeBron.

I was pretty young when MJ was on top, and LeBron came into the NBA as I was about to leave high school. I would really love to say that LeBron is better. When he first was drafted, I hoped he would be better than MJ. I want to be able to say that the greatest player from my generation is the greatest of all time. But the time has come, LeBron has peaked, and it just isn't so. He's definitely one of the best players to ever lace them up, and when his Jersey is hung up for good he will probably go down as a Top-5 legend. There's no shame in any of it, and I appreciate getting to watch such a transcendent athlete.

BUT HE IS NOT AS GOOD AS MICHAEL JORDAN. Just ****ing put it to bed already.


On a totally unrelated note, I just want to quote this guy here:

[QUOTE=Teanett]that right there is why you cant imagine bronny ever beating prime jordan or even prime kobe.

they would never miss that last free throw. they'd take the win AND the 50 and shove it down your throat.[/QUOTE]

And give us all more opportunity to laugh at how dumb these ideas are. Kobe might miss a lot of potential game-winners... but if he was on the verge of an individual scoring record (that had no impact on the outcome of the game) he would NEVER miss. Not only is it wrong, but even if it was right it would have nothing to do with being good as a basketball player.

[QUOTE=Fawker]the NBA wont let a anyone surpass MJ because MJ is holy. Like Kobe or Lebron wont mop the floor with any version of him.[/QUOTE]


#1

[QUOTE=Teanett]that right there is why you cant imagine bronny ever beating prime jordan or even prime kobe.

[B]they would never miss that last free throw.[/B] they'd take the win AND the 50 and shove it down your throat.[/QUOTE]

Yes, you're right, Kobe and MJ both were 100% foul shooters.

At first I was skeptical, but now I agree whole heartedly due to your flawless argumentation method.

[QUOTE=Prometheus]It breaks my heart, but as great as LeBron is, there is 0% chance of him being as great as Jordan was. If the rest of his career unfolds in storybook fashion, he may catch him in accolades/accomplishments... if things play out the right way, the media consensus might even crown him GOAT (like if they 5-peat or something ridiculous)... but to those of us who understand the game and were there to watch it throughout the 1990s, the truth is obvious. In terms of sheer impact on the court, we have seen LeBron's peak and it is just not of the same caliber that Michael Jordan's was. Jordan from 1991-1993 was just the ultimate competitive sports athlete.

You could make the case because of his much more dominant presence and the way he could impose his will and make his opponents lose their confidence, or you could point out something as simple as his infinitely more devastating midrange game, which allowed him to score at will against any defender. You could make the case because of his uninterrupted knack for elevating his game in the playoffs and again in the finals, always bringing his A-game to the biggest stage, or you could point to the fact that even though LeBron is universally recognized as a better passer (which I agree with), Jordan averaged over 11 APG in his first NBA Finals :wtf: ... You could compare Jordan's statistical years that LeBron will never touch:

1989 - 32.5 PPG 8.0 APG 8.0 RPG .538 FG% .850 FT%

or you could just use the eye test:

[IMG]http://img.pandawhale.com/post-22318-Michael-Jordan-ball-fake-gif-SvYu.gif[/IMG]

But no matter how you slice it, Jordan > LeBron.

I was pretty young when MJ was on top, and LeBron came into the NBA as I was about to leave high school. I would really love to say that LeBron is better. When he first was drafted, I hoped he would be better than MJ. I want to be able to say that the greatest player from my generation is the greatest of all time. But the time has come, LeBron has peaked, and it just isn't so. He's definitely one of the best players to ever lace them up, and when his Jersey is hung up for good he will probably go down as a Top-5 legend. There's no shame in any of it, and I appreciate getting to watch such a transcendent athlete.

BUT HE IS NOT AS GOOD AS MICHAEL JORDAN. Just ****ing put it to bed already.


On a totally unrelated note, I just want to quote this guy here:



And give us all more opportunity to laugh at how dumb these ideas are. Kobe might miss a lot of potential game-winners... but if he was on the verge of an individual scoring record (that had no impact on the outcome of the game) he would NEVER miss. Not only is it wrong, but even if it was right it would have nothing to do with being good as a basketball player.[/QUOTE]
LeBron>Jordan
LeBron didnt even hit his peak yet
relax sonny, there is more than stats

[QUOTE=tmacattack33]Yes, you're right, Kobe and MJ both were 100% foul shooters.

At first I was skeptical, but now I agree whole heartedly due to your flawless argumentation method.[/QUOTE]

you dont get it because you're 14 years old and never seen jordan or kobe in their primes... of course they missed free throws, but that particular one,? that gets them to 50? adds insult to injury? they dont miss that free throw.

[QUOTE=Teanett]you dont get it because you're 14 years old and never seen jordan or kobe in their primes... of course they missed free throws, but that particular one,? that gets them to 50? adds insult to injury? they dont miss that free throw.[/QUOTE]
thats because they were better FT shooters.
holy fuq is it that hard to understand??
also you admit they are the ultimate stat padders if they never miss that one but missed CRUCIAL FT in their careers when it came to getting wins:biggums: :lol

I actually LIKE Lebron a lot, but his stans are approaching Kobe stan levels of obnoxiousness

No, Lebron hasn't proven himself to be the player that Jordan was, and the vast majority of people who saw BOTH careers feel that way.

It's only those that have only seen Lebron who don't understand that.

[QUOTE=Marlo_Stanfield]thats because they were better FT shooters.
holy fuq is it that hard to understand??
also you admit they are the ultimate stat padders if they never miss that one but missed CRUCIAL FT in their careers when it came to getting wins:biggums: :lol[/QUOTE]

Congrats, you're the most annoying of the new school Lebron stans. Good (actually terrible) work.

[QUOTE=Knoe Itawl]I actually LIKE Lebron a lot, but his stans are approaching Kobe stan levels of obnoxiousness

No, Lebron hasn't proven himself to be the player that Jordan was, and the vast majority of people who saw BOTH careers feel that way.

It's only those that have only seen Lebron who don't understand that.[/QUOTE]
because lebrons career is still far from over:facepalm so far he has done more in his career than jordan at age 29 outside of PPG and he wont get worse the next 5 years at least.
you are also forgetting that lebron palyed with trash for 7 years, NEVEr had a great coach and that MJs bulls from 1990 on were just at least twice as good as the Heat.

[QUOTE=Marlo_Stanfield]thats because they were better FT shooters.
holy fuq is it that hard to understand??
also you admit they are the ultimate stat padders if they never miss that one but missed CRUCIAL FT in their careers when it came to getting wins:biggums: :lol[/QUOTE]

ft's are a part of the game, another part where lebron is inferior to both.

[QUOTE=Knoe Itawl]Congrats, you're the most annoying of the new school Lebron stans. Good (actually terrible) work.[/QUOTE]
:cheers: :cheers:

[QUOTE=Knoe Itawl]Congrats, you're the most annoying of the new school Lebron stans. Good (actually terrible) work.[/QUOTE]

marlo is the fckn worst. have you ever been in a heat game thread with him in it? its beyond pathetic how hard he rides bron's nuts.

[QUOTE=Teanett]you dont get it because you're 14 years old and never seen jordan or kobe in their primes... of course they missed free throws, but that particular one,? that gets them to 50? adds insult to injury? they dont miss that free throw.[/QUOTE]

This is not an intelligent argument man, I'm sorry.

Both Kobe and MJ have missed important free throws in their careers.

Your argument is that some crazy jedi force will turn them into 100% FT shooters due to the fact that that FT will get them the 50 point mark. :oldlol:

[QUOTE=Teanett]ft's are a part of the game, another part where lebron is inferior to both.[/QUOTE]
yeah but hes better in every other aspectoutside of scoring compared to MJ and if he keeps up his current efficency and PPG in the playoffs even that might be very close when its all over:bowdown: :bowdown:
but i am tired now of comparing mj and bran. both different approaches and bioth great.
kobe isnt even in the same tier.

[QUOTE=Marlo_Stanfield]because lebrons career is still far from over:facepalm so far he has done more in his career than jordan at age 29 outside of PPG and he wont get worse the next 5 years at least.
you are also forgetting that lebron palyed with trash for 7 years, NEVEr had a great coach and that MJs bulls from 1990 on were just at least twice as good as the Heat.[/QUOTE]

Lebron is a great, great player. Actually doesn't get enough credit for what he was able to do with those Cavs team, considering the talent he had. I believe he will retire top 5.

He's just not better than Jordan. And I don't say that out of any Jordan nostalgia. If I felt Lebron had surpassed him, I'd give it to him. Jordan just had too many other gears he reached, specifically in the playoffs. Bron just hasn't reached those heights consistently enough yet to be compared to MJ. It's just the truth.

[QUOTE=tmacattack33]This is not an intelligent argument man, I'm sorry.

Both Kobe and MJ have missed important free throws in their careers.

Your argument is that some crazy jedi force will turn them into 100% FT shooters due to the fact that that FT will get them the 50 point mark. :oldlol:[/QUOTE]

so an intelligent arguement would be me coming up with stats to validate the existence of this jedi force... but that's not possible.

however, i and everybody who saw kobe and mj in their primes would feel very positive about either making the 2nd of a pair of free throw to get them to 50 points.

i cant explain why, maybe it's because we've never seen jordan average 17ppg in the finals, or seen him visibly shaking in his pants.

[QUOTE=Knoe Itawl]Lebron is a great, great player. Actually doesn't get enough credit for what he was able to do with those Cavs team, considering the talent he had. I believe he will retire top 5.

He's just not better than Jordan. And I don't say that out of any Jordan nostalgia. If I felt Lebron had surpassed him, I'd give it to him. Jordan just had too many other gears he reached, specifically in the playoffs. Bron just hasn't reached those heights consistently enough yet to be compared to MJ. It's just the truth.[/QUOTE]
well he had a load of legendary games so far, lets see how many he adds:cheers: :cheers:
of course hes not YET comparable but if he keeps winning he will.
i personally hope he can do that.:banana: :banana:

[QUOTE=Marlo_Stanfield]yeah but [B]hes better in every other aspectoutside of scoring compared to MJ [/B]and if he keeps up his current efficency and PPG in the playoffs even that might be very close when its all over:bowdown: :bowdown:
but i am tired now of comparing mj and bran. both different approaches and bioth great.
kobe isnt even in the same tier.[/QUOTE]

he is not. he is not a better defender.
he might be a more willing passer but he is not a better passer.
and playmaker? no way. look at the 96 bulls triangle offense. perfect execution. there were games were the whole didnt have to take a single bad shot.

this media hype of lebron being this great basketball mind is disturbing. last night he passed out of a double team for the hockey assist on bosh's 3.
what is so genius about that? he made the correct play, that's it.
lebron still jacks up more bad shots than doug collins era jordan.
but just because he aint russell westbrook doenst mean he's on jordan's level of understanding the game of basketball.

[QUOTE=Teanett]so an intelligent arguement would be me coming up with stats to validate the existence of this jedi force... but that's not possible.

however, i and everybody who saw kobe and mj in their primes would feel very positive about either making the 2nd of a pair of free throw to get them to 50 points.

i cant explain why, maybe it's because we've never seen jordan average 17ppg in the finals, or seen him visibly shaking in his pants.[/QUOTE]

No, an intelligent argument here would be that you would at first acknowledge that MJ and Kobe were great FT shooters period (about 90% FT shooters), at all times, so obviously you'd be pretty confident in them making both.

But if you're trying to say that they would be even better than 90% on a last second FT to crack 50 points, then you would need evidence that MJ and Kobe get better in the clutch.

And that evidence is slightly there with MJ, and is not there at all with Kobe.

[QUOTE=5 rings fan], in a much tougher era[/QUOTE] No

[QUOTE=tmacattack33]No, an intelligent argument here would be that you would at first acknowledge [B]that MJ and Kobe were great FT shooters period (about 90% FT shooters),[/B] at all times, so obviously you'd be pretty confident in them making both.[/QUOTE]

stopped reading right there.
you have no idea about both of them. why bother talking about them?

[QUOTE=Derivative]I know that MJ is the GOAT, but the more I watch Lebron these days the more I think that he's a more dominant player than MJ.

Even more so when I watch Cavaliers Lebron videos, especially in 2009, he was godlike during those years.[/QUOTE]

brandwagon is so pathetic :facepalm

[QUOTE=livinglegend]and water is wet[/QUOTE]

he will never as good as mj :no:

damn marlo making lebron stans look like kobetards ITT

[QUOTE=Teanett]stopped reading right there.
you have no idea about both of them. why bother talking about them?[/QUOTE]

Good, I'm glad you found a way out of continuing your highly questionable argument.

lebron will be top 3 when he's done IMO

[QUOTE=Solefade]damn marlo making lebron stans look like kobetards ITT[/QUOTE]

Pretty much. It's so conflicted for me, I'm a huge LeBron fan but sometimes I cringe saying that because so many of his fans are so corny and ignorant.

I post a mouthful about how you can analyze their games in many ways and Jordan still comes out on top, and his response to me is "there's more than stats"... I even said in my post "you can look at stats or you can simply use the eye test" and brought up Jordan's ability to elevate his game in the playoffs or secure a psychological edge against his opponent. Marlo's answer "there's more than stats"... :facepalm