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[QUOTE=ArbitraryWater]Huh? He's talking about the whole Play... Kobe's was way different... Wow, can't believe I gotta take 3ball's side here... Still, it's probably been done alot.. But not here.[/QUOTE]
Wait, are you suggesting Kobe's play wasn't a hop step, dunk? Really?
Here's the full highlight in real time:
[url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9EDilYikI1k[/url]
[QUOTE=kuniva_dAMiGhTy]Wait, are you suggesting Kobe's play wasn't a hop step, dunk? Really?
Here's the full highlight in real time:
[url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9EDilYikI1k[/url][/QUOTE]
I can't view the link at work but I'm sure I've seen Kobe do the hop-step dunk many times...Now MJ is much quicker with it but still there's not many players that do it...
[QUOTE=Dro]I can't view the link at work but I'm sure I've seen Kobe do the hop-step dunk many times...Now MJ is much quicker with it but still there's not many players that do it...[/QUOTE]
All hop steps are not the same... everyone does that move that kobe did in that GIF - that's a very standard way to take off two-feet (albiet, still better than anything you'll see Lebron do off two feet, realtalk).
With Jordan and Green's, it's almost a travel, as they take a full step BEFORE the jump-stop... so look out for that full step they take before the jump-stop... it's a very sneaky.
Jordan and Green's hop-step is one-of-a-kind (well, i guess two-of-a-kind) - you should see the difference if you look closely enough.
Here's Jordan doing it some more - the first three below are the most clear:
[IMG]http://gifsforum.com/images_new/gif/other/grand/7854892c34d2d722409acbe23f21287b.gif[/IMG]
[IMG]http://gifsforum.com/images_new/gif/other/grand/43200f7b24bf02eef1f49262adc03d82.gif[/IMG]
[IMG]http://gifsforum.com/images_new/gif/other/grand/Jordan_with_HopStep_Poster_on_80238d01ed987cdc607f1ff84f8f070f.gif[/IMG]
Compare to Gerald Green:
[IMG]http://gifsforum.com/images_new/gif/other/grand/9f3a78a58ce8356bcd47eeb636169b2e.gif[/IMG]
Here's two more from Jordan - he does the move, but these vids are less clear:
[IMG]http://gifsforum.com/images_new/gif/other/grand/0fbb838417ffd0dc9318ae2d49939be2.gif[/IMG]
[IMG]http://gifsforum.com/images_new/gif/other/grand/Jordan_Splits_Perimeter_Double_6e7b1e60fae2c32de17fc6999697853d.gif[/IMG]
GOAT, one-of-a-kind footwork by Gerald Green... :applause:
[QUOTE=3ball]
[B]but defenses back then didn't need to come from another area of the floor - they were already waiting in the paint.[/B]
for example, do you realize how ridiculous it would be for a team [B]in the 80's[/B] to use a "strong side flood" when [B]there is no defensive 3 seconds[/B]?[/Quote]
[img]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v300/Haskel45/9599699.gif[/img]
[url]http://www.nba.com/analysis/rules_history.html[/url]
[B]1966-67[/B]
I don't understand why this thread is so long. Lebron avg'd 27 ppg last year shooting 57%. He could have scored 30 on at least 53%. He's not nearly as skilled, diverse or fundamentally sound a scorer as MJ was. Nor was he as competitive.
What defense can stop a guy with no offensive weaknesses? So Lebron can destroy the league to the tune of 27 on 57 but MJ can't? Makes no sense. MJ had one of the best midrange jumpshots in the game. Much more reliable than Lebron's, especially under durress. Force him to take that midrange shot for his whole career and he might have dominated for 15-16 years instead of 13. He was already an iron man even under the physicality of the late 80's/90's.
I'm using Lebron because he is clearly the best in the game today.
So what these bran stans are saying is, bran with his limited offensive moves can score at a very high efficiency in this era's defenses but somehow Jordan would struggle scoring efficiently. :rolleyes:
Bran stans have limited brain capacity, nothing new here let's move on. :oldlol:
[QUOTE=Asukal]So what these bran stans are saying is, bran with his limited offensive moves can score at a very high efficiency in this era's defenses but somehow Jordan would struggle scoring efficiently. :rolleyes:
Bran stans have limited brain capacity, nothing new here let's move on. :oldlol:[/QUOTE]
Bran isnt limited offensively. Average mid range, average free throws, good threes, goat tier driving, good post, goat tier finishing. Limited in what? Inefficient two pointers?
Im not sure anyone here has seriously suggested Jordan would struggle scoring efficiently.
[QUOTE=SamuraiSWISH]Thibs is right but it doesn't mean MJ would be less effective now. Oh, and bigs still found a way to shadow Jordan in his more versatile / drive-centric game style from '87 - '93.
MJ from '96 - '98 scored almost exclusively on jumpers. His point about drives becoming jumpers. Which means MJ put up 30.4 ppg, 29.7 ppg, and 28.7 ppg from ages 33 - 35 on post up, elbow, and mid range jumpers. So an extra wall of defenders means nadda.
[/QUOTE]
Pretty much. But Jordan by 92 was more of a jump shooter anyway. In 97, I think he averaged 49% at the mid range? That's pretty insane. He might've been better in his prime. He was definitely a better finisher in his prime. Even when he came back with the Wiz, his jumpshot was about 42% or something. This is his shot chart in 97:
[url]http://img.bleacherreport.net/img/article/media_slots/photos/001/021/796/Shotchart_1377133449171_crop_exact.png?w=650&h=433&q=85[/url]
But Thibs is right like people said. There are better options in terms of help defense now because of zone. Anyway, MJ had the skills, IQ, and the athleticism to score 30 ppg on 50% in any era.
[QUOTE=FKAri]prime Jordan transplanted to today's time would do worse but that is only because he molded his game for a different time. If he were brought up to play in this time he would've simply worked on different aspects of his game (3pt shooting etc) and eventually imo dominated just as much as he ever did.[/QUOTE]
How would prime Jordan did worse when 09 Wade was dominating the league with a garbage 3 point shot.
[QUOTE=ArbitraryWater]somewhere an alarm is going off in dondadda's basement[/QUOTE]
:lol
Nah... Jordan is GOAT so he would still dominate today's game. You'd think he wouldn't adjust his offensive game to deal with that kind of defense?
[QUOTE=navy][B]Bran isnt limited offensively.[/B] Average mid range, average free throws, good threes, goat tier driving, good post, goat tier finishing. Limited in what? Inefficient two pointers?
Im not sure anyone here has seriously suggested Jordan would struggle scoring efficiently.[/QUOTE]
Yes he is when compared to the GOAT. :rolleyes:
.
[SIZE="3"][B]Defenders paint-camping while their man is behind the 3-point line [/B][/SIZE]
(this happened all the time - these were taken from a single 10 minute highlight vid):
[B]1) Pippen in far-corner, guarded by paint-campers:
[/B]
[IMG]http://gifsforum.com/images_new/gif/other/grand/b64923de29630157895f9c3f9dc2e1bd.gif[/IMG]
[B]2) Armstrong in far-corner being guarded by paint-campers[/b] (this one's actually from a different vid):
[IMG]http://gifsforum.com/images_new/gif/other/grand/cc9f5bd27abe1cedf21d5f3133957e62.gif[/IMG]
[B]3) Pippen in near-corner, guarded by paint camper:
[/B]
[IMG]http://gifsforum.com/images_new/gif/other/grand/pippen-is-at-near-corner-3poin-545a2a6bc32f2.gif[/IMG]
[B]4) Craig Hodges in near-corner AND Sellers near-sideline, both guarded by paint campers:
[/B]
[IMG]http://gifsforum.com/images_new/gif/other/grand/near-corner-3pt-shooter-guarde-545a2b06491c5.gif[/IMG]
[B]5) Pippen at top of key AND Paxson far sideline being guarded by paint-campers:
[/B]
[IMG]http://gifsforum.com/images_new/gif/other/grand/Paxson-on-far-sideline-being-b-545a2f9c3dd98.gif[/IMG]
[B]6) Paxson on far sideline is being guarded by paint-camper:
[/B]
[IMG]http://gifsforum.com/images_new/gif/other/grand/paxson-far-sideline-being-guar-545a3071c7d91.gif[/IMG]
[B]7) Pippen (top of key) and Armstrong (far sideline) being guarded by paint-campers:
[/B]
[IMG]http://gifsforum.com/images_new/gif/other/grand/ff254945c516053cd729b4e7438b4688.gif[/IMG]
[B]8) Paxson is near the top of key, guarded by habitual paint-camper, Price:
[/B]
[IMG]http://gifsforum.com/images_new/gif/other/grand/Paxson-guarded-by-paintcamper-545a381e32380.gif[/IMG]
[QUOTE=DonDadda59]
You don't find it odd that since the rule changes perimeter scoring has exploded collectively to all time records? When Jordan was winning scoring title in the 90s, he was usually the only perimeter guy in the top 5 scorers list (including when guys like Kobe and Iverson were in the league). In fact, check out who was doing the bulk of the scoring league wide when he left to play baseball.
Then flash forward to post '06... when was the last time a non perimeter player won the scoring title? When was the last time the top 5-10 scorers in the league weren't perimeter players.
But I'm supposed to believe it's harder now for those guys to get buckets?
Why?[/QUOTE]
And no one answered because no one could.
[QUOTE=mehyaM24]just read what former players and coaches have to say about yesteryears defensive schemes:
[B]“Offenses are a little more complex[/B] because the defenses have forced that,” Ainge says. “In the ’80s, defense was important but you didn’t do as much double-teaming, you didn’t do as much trapping. You played guys straight up."
[/QUOTE]
SHIT! can you imagine what Jordan would have done on the complex offenses of today that Ainge talks about? I shudder only thinking about it!
[QUOTE=oarabbus]Jordan would be a 15ppg scorer today, if he was LUCKY. Best case scenario today is a rich man's Gerald Green.
[COLOR="White"]3balls blood pressure rising lol[/COLOR][/QUOTE]
And a defensive impact like Boozer :lol
If Thibbs' Celtics defenses are better than the late 80's Pistons or early 90's Knicks, why did Wade average 33.2 ppg on 56% FG and 66% TS against Thibbs in 2010 Playoffs?
How does Durant averaged 30 ppg on 54% shooting and 65% TS against the Spurs?
Jordan never shot 66% TS against ANY playoff team, let alone the Pistons and Knicks - if he had, that would mean the Pistons and Knicks had BAD DEFENSES.
[QUOTE=3ball][IMG]http://gifsforum.com/images_new/gif/other/grand/d6c47d055cfff266f26bde61297986cf.gif[/IMG]
Under today's defensive 3 seconds rule, a paint defender must be within "armslength" of an opponent to stay in the lane.. [url]http://www.nba.com/nba101/misunderstood_0708.html[/url]
[B]In today's game, Eaton would draw a technical after 3 seconds because Cartwright is out of "[I]armslength[/I]" reach, but in previous eras, Eaton is legal because Cartwright only needs to be "[I]adjacent to the paint[/I]":
[/B]
Here's the original rule from 1982: ([url]http://www.nba.com/analysis/rules_history.html[/url])
[INDENT][B]1981-82[/B]
"[I]Defender on post player is allowed in defensive three-second area (A post player is any player adjacent to paint)"[/I].[/INDENT]
So just by substituting the rule's own parenthetical reference, the rule translates EXACTLY to: "Defender on player adjacent to the paint is allowed in defensive 3 second area."
There is a quote from then-commissioner Larry O'Brien saying the old 3-seconds rule was meant to open up the lane, but in reality, the league didn't even know what spacing was at the time like we do today... The way people thought about the game back then was 180-degrees different from the way we think about the game today, so O'Brien's standard in 1982 of what a clear lane was does not compare to our current standard, which is why the old 3-seconds rule was replaced in 2001, in an attempt to "open up the game", as the NBA has stated.
The old rule had been incredibly simple in saying that anytime your man is "adjacent to the paint", you can stay in the lane.. The paint is a huge, 16-foot area, so a player "adjacent to the paint" is almost always out of "armslength", especially considering "adjacent to the paint" meant right next to the paint, a few feet outside the paint, or all the way out to the 3-point line... The GIF's below showing shooters at the 3-point line being guarded by paint-campers is the best example of how the old rule and its "adjacent to the paint" language was designed to allow players to camp in the paint:
[SIZE="3"][B]GIF's of Shooters At 3-Point Line Being Guarded By Defenders Camping in Paint:
[/B][/SIZE]
The old 3 seconds rule allowed players to camp in the paint so much, that players could camp in the paint while their man was behind the 3-point line - on every possession, there were paint-campers guarding players who were behind the 3-point line, or at least far outside the paint.
I can post literally thousands of clips like the ones below... The ones listed below are from a single, run-of-the-mill Jordan highlight video: [url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S7Huo88x-Fk[/url]
[B]1) Armstrong in far-corner being guarded by paint-campers[/b] (this one's actually from a different vid):
[IMG]http://gifsforum.com/images_new/gif/other/grand/cc9f5bd27abe1cedf21d5f3133957e62.gif[/IMG]
[B]2) Pippen in near-corner, guarded by paint camper:
[/B]
[IMG]http://gifsforum.com/images_new/gif/other/grand/pippen-is-at-near-corner-3poin-545a2a6bc32f2.gif[/IMG]
[B]3) Craig Hodges in near-corner AND Sellers near-sideline, both guarded by paint campers:
[/B]
[IMG]http://gifsforum.com/images_new/gif/other/grand/near-corner-3pt-shooter-guarde-545a2b06491c5.gif[/IMG]
[B]4) Pippen at top of key AND Paxson far sideline being guarded by paint-campers:
[/B]
[IMG]http://gifsforum.com/images_new/gif/other/grand/Paxson-on-far-sideline-being-b-545a2f9c3dd98.gif[/IMG]
[B]5) Paxson on far sideline is being guarded by paint-camper:
[/B]
[IMG]http://gifsforum.com/images_new/gif/other/grand/paxson-far-sideline-being-guar-545a3071c7d91.gif[/IMG]
[B]6) Pippen (top of key) and Armstrong (far sideline) being guarded by paint-campers:
[/B]
[IMG]http://gifsforum.com/images_new/gif/other/grand/ff254945c516053cd729b4e7438b4688.gif[/IMG]
[B]7) Paxson is near the top of key, guarded by habitual paint-camper, Price:
[/B]
[IMG]http://gifsforum.com/images_new/gif/other/grand/Paxson-guarded-by-paintcamper-545a381e32380.gif[/IMG]
[B]8) Pippen in far-corner, guarded by paint-campers:
[/B]
[IMG]http://gifsforum.com/images_new/gif/other/grand/b64923de29630157895f9c3f9dc2e1bd.gif[/IMG]
If Thibbs' Celtics defenses are better than the late 80's Pistons or early 90's Knicks, why did Wade average 33.2 ppg on 56% FG and 66% TS against Thibbs in 2010 Playoffs?
How does Durant averaged 30 ppg on 54% shooting and 65% TS against the Spurs?
Jordan never shot 66% TS against ANY playoff team, let alone the Pistons and Knicks - if he had, that would mean the Pistons and Knicks had BAD DEFENSES.[/QUOTE]
Jordan is GOAT, but......
didn't read :yaohappy:
[QUOTE=3ball]If Thibbs' Celtics defenses are better than the late 80's Pistons or early 90's Knicks, why did Wade average 33.2 ppg on 56% FG and 66% TS against Thibbs in 2010 Playoffs?
How does Durant averaged 30 ppg on 54% shooting and 65% TS against the Spurs?
Jordan never shot 66% TS against ANY playoff team, let alone the Pistons and Knicks - if he had, that would mean the Pistons and Knicks had BAD DEFENSES.[/QUOTE]
Implying it is impossible for Wade or Durant to outplay Jordan for a series?
[QUOTE=navy]Implying it is impossible for Wade or Durant to outplay Jordan for a series?[/QUOTE]
Um, yeah.
Win or lose, MJ was never outplayed in a series, with the exception possibly when he first came back from retirement in '95.
Durant got outplayed by Lebron. You don't think MJ would absolutely merk him in a playoff series?
[QUOTE=sportjames23]Um, yeah.
Win or lose, MJ was never outplayed in a series, with the exception possibly when he first came back from retirement in '95.
Durant got outplayed by Lebron. You don't think MJ would absolutely merk him in a playoff series?[/QUOTE]
What are you talking about? No one mentioned head to head.
.
[B][SIZE="4"]No-Spacing and Paint-Camping[/SIZE][/B]
[IMG]http://gifsforum.com/images_new/gif/other/grand/573113292e852dcb8f5fe242c53e3982.gif[/IMG]
[IMG]http://gifsforum.com/images_new/gif/other/grand/832a26d5ea87f83465b92fe12837530b.gif[/IMG]
[IMG]http://gifsforum.com/images_new/gif/other/grand/c2bdc97f50bdc6f9fb0d44ff4f53f8f6.gif[/IMG]
[IMG]http://gifsforum.com/images_new/gif/other/grand/728b10a2dca8fca89dca89f115243b29.gif[/IMG]
[IMG]http://gifsforum.com/images_new/gif/other/grand/54cd4db17a9330ca58b8e33a0b6f9b2f.gif[/IMG]
[IMG]http://gifsforum.com/images_new/gif/other/grand/9452b82cec96338b7f838b67c9198694.gif[/IMG]
[IMG]http://gifsforum.com/images_new/gif/other/grand/cc9f5bd27abe1cedf21d5f3133957e62.gif[/IMG]
[IMG]http://gifsforum.com/images_new/gif/other/grand/71cf54bff7eeb11e7ad0da2af5d3536f.gif[/IMG].. [size="3"][B]Notice Mureasan - camping all day[/B][/size]
.
[QUOTE=3ball]if a player shoots 66% TS against a team, that team does not have a tough defense.
wade and durant aren't just shooting better by a little bit.
jordan's percentages against the Pistons and Knicks are nowhere near 66% TS.
it can only be a function of today's weaker defenses that must now contend with spacing and defensive 3 seconds, causing them to help from further distances and leaving the paint clear for higher paint percentages.[/QUOTE]
Or Wade and Durant are good players.
Which series about Durant are you talking about btw? What was the defensive rating for those Spurs?
[QUOTE=navy]What are you talking about? No one mentioned head to head.[/QUOTE]
You mentioned the possibility of either one of them outplaying MJ for a series.
[QUOTE=sportjames23]You mentioned the possibility of either one of them outplaying MJ for a series.[/QUOTE]
You just arent paying attention.
They arent in the same series.
[QUOTE=navy]You just arent paying attention.
They arent in the same series.[/QUOTE]
sportjames got you there i think navy - if they can't beat MJ heads-up, then they are highly unlikely to do better than he could against another team.
and to assume they would, is to make the unlikely, against-the-odds assumptive leap.
[QUOTE=3ball]sportjames got you there i think navy - if they can't beat MJ heads-up, then they are highly unlikely to do better than he could against another team.
and to assume they would, is to make the unlikely, against-the-odds assumptive leap.[/QUOTE]
lol, random change of the subject.
Let's just say I agree. Now go back to the dumb point you were making.
[QUOTE=PJR]It's an absolute fact that it's more difficult to score in today's NBA than it was back in the 90s.
All the rule changes from 2005 on were nothing more than to counter balance defensive systems like the aforementioned. It's all evened out now.[/QUOTE]
MJ's last season in the NBA... 1997-1998.
League averaged 95.6 ppg on a .478 eFG%
THIS season...
League average is 100.5 ppg on a .499 eFG%
[QUOTE=LAZERUSS][B]MJ's last season in the NBA..[/B]. 1997-1998.
League averaged 95.6 ppg on a .478 eFG%
THIS season...
League average is 100.5 ppg on a .499 eFG%[/QUOTE]
what?
[QUOTE=navy]
Let's just say I agree. Now go back to the dumb point you were making.
[/QUOTE]
[IMG]http://gifsforum.com/images_new/gif/other/grand/573113292e852dcb8f5fe242c53e3982.gif[/IMG]
while i can provide literally thousands of plays like this (because players were allowed to camp in the paint in previous eras), it is impossible to find even ONE play from today's game where players are camping under the rim and packing the paint like the GIF above.
Also, the GIF above shows that being allowed to camp in the lane meant [I]swinging the ball[/I] was less effective in previous eras.. Defenders barely had to move when the ball was swung - they could remain stationary and just turn their head and body like a swivel chair.
But in today's game with defensive 3 seconds, players must stay out of the lane... So when the ball is swung, defenders must move from outside the lane on one side, to outside the lane on the other side - this is much easier for the offense to face than defenders getting to camp in the lane and merely swivel-chair when the ball is swung.
since swinging the ball wasn't as effective in previous eras when players could camp in the lane, teams [I]didn't[/I] swing the ball as much - and overall, teams didn't rely on passing to get open shots as much, since passing and cutting lanes didn't exist in previous eras like they do today, now that spacing and rule changes have "opened up the game".
.
[QUOTE=3ball][IMG]http://gifsforum.com/images_new/gif/other/grand/573113292e852dcb8f5fe242c53e3982.gif[/IMG]
while i can provide literally thousands of plays like this (because players were allowed to camp in the paint in previous eras), it is impossible to find even ONE play from today's game where players are camping under the rim and packing the paint like the GIF above.
Also, the GIF above shows that being allowed to camp in the lane meant [I]swinging the ball[/I] was less effective in previous eras.. Defenders barely had to move when the ball was swung - they could remain stationary and just turn their head and body like a swivel chair.
But in today's game with defensive 3 seconds, players must stay out of the lane... So when the ball is swung, defenders must move from outside the lane on one side, to outside the lane on the other side - this is much easier for the offense to face than defenders getting to camp in the lane and merely swivel-chair when the ball is swung.
since swinging the ball wasn't as effective in previous eras when players could camp in the lane, teams [I]didn't[/I] swing the ball as much - and overall, teams didn't rely on passing to get open shots as much, since passing and cutting lanes didn't exist in previous eras like they do today, now that spacing and rule changes have "opened up the game".
.[/QUOTE]
Sorry 3ball, but most of what you said is not true.
Yes, the paint can at times be more crowded in past eras, but it was due to offensive players converging around the paint because offensive philosophy dictated this.
You can find GIFS of anything. Incompetence. Bloopers. Great plays. You can find this at any level of basketball. You can find players driving to the hoop with a wide open lane, even in international ball which employs a full blown zone. It just depends on the circumstance. It's not proof of anything.
Just tonight. I saw parts of the Mem/Mia game when Carter posted up, and 3 players converge on the strong side with 2 players doubling him, and another in the paint while guarding no one. There are many examples in most games.
Yes, you have a point that Illegal Defenses in past eras where not always called consistently, and teams often times got away with it, but the rule is clearer today, and teams have been forced to employ more 3 point shootin than ever.
I like the game better today. It's better to watch and the level is higher than ever, in my opinion.
:facepalm
[IMG]http://fc02.deviantart.net/fs71/f/2012/098/4/2/glasses_are_cool___matt_smith___gif_by_demon_slayer13-d4vek3r.gif[/IMG]
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[QUOTE]
You can find GIFS of anything.
[/QUOTE]
so why can't anyone point me to a play from today's game where defenders are camping under the rim indefinitely like previous eras?
[quote]
i like the game better today. It's better to watch and the level is higher than ever, in my opinion.
[/QUOTE]
so you like less scoring - today's game employs a slowed down brand of basketball to set up all the 3-pointers and spacing... every motion throughout the game looks pre-planned, predictable and choreographed - the spacing looks organized and marching-band like, as opposed to the free flowing, instinctive and random movements of previous eras.
and it's impossible for the level to be higher if 27% of shots taken are 3-pointers... that means [I]at least[/I] 27% of all shots are play-finishing (minus pull-up 3's which are much less frequent).
and the 3-pointers create incredible spacing that coupled with defensive 3 seconds and the banning of physical play, turns the game into a mostly play-finishing, which is NOT "high level"... instead, it looks more choreographed and pre-planned, not quick-reacting and instinctive like previous eras.
.
[QUOTE=3ball]so why can't anyone point me to a play from today's game where defenders are camping under the rim indefinitely like previous eras?
so you like less scoring - today's game employs a slowed down brand of basketball to set up all the 3-pointers and spacing... every motion throughout the game looks pre-planned, predictable and choreographed - the spacing looks organized and marching-band like, as opposed to the free flowing, instinctive and random movements of previous eras.
and it's impossible for the level to be higher if 27% of shots taken are 3-pointers... that means [I]at least[/I] 27% of all shots are play-finishing (minus pull-up 3's which are much less frequent).
and the 3-pointers create incredible spacing that coupled with defensive 3 seconds and the banning of physical play, turns the game into a mostly play-finishing, which is NOT "high level"... instead, it looks more choreographed and pre-planned, not quick-reacting and instinctive like previous eras.
.[/QUOTE]
I admit it. I'm an older poster and I can't do GiFS. So sue me.:lol
There really are a ton of examples everyday.
Open your mind. I used to be like you. As the 80s turned to the 90s, I struggled to accept Jordan and his Bulls, and how they seem to have diminished the 80s era, but as I got older, I accepted Jordan and had to concede the obvious.
I look at today's game, and I see great shooting(better than ever), unselfish play, and more intelligent defense. I respect your opinion and there is a case to be made that the 90s, in particular, had the roughest defense I have ever seen, and I have been watching NBA hoops since 1981.
[QUOTE=Dr.J4ever]
There really are a ton of examples everyday... but i can't do GIFs.. sue me
[/quote]
this is weak and proves my point - just point me to the time in a youtube where defenders are camping under the rim like the previous GIF's.
[quote]
Open your mind.
[/QUOTE]
there is nothing to open my mind [I]about[/I] - all i have to do is look at the [I]actual[/I] changes to the rulebook.
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the new rule in 2005 states that players must be [url=http://www.nba.com/nba101/misunderstood_0708.html][u]"[I]within armslength[/I][/u]"[/url] of an opponent to remain in the paint.
the original 3 seconds rule from 1982 states that a player can remain in the paint if their man is [url=http://www.nba.com/analysis/rules_history.html]"[u][I]adjacent to the paint[/I][/u]"[/url].
"[I]adjacent[/I]" means outside of the paint, and outside of the paint is almost always out of "[I]armslength[/I]" reach.
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here - i'll post both 3 seconds rules in the next post:
Today's defensive 3 seconds rule requires defenders to stay out of the lane, unless they are within "armslength" of an opponent.. [url]http://www.nba.com/nba101/misunderstood_0708.html[/url]
The original rule from 1982 said a defender could stay in the lane if his man was "adjacent to the paint": ([url]http://www.nba.com/analysis/rules_history.html[/url])
[INDENT][B]1981-82[/B]
"[I]Defender on post player is allowed in defensive three-second area (A post player is any player adjacent to paint)"[/I].[/INDENT]
So just by substituting the rule's own parenthetical reference, the rule translates EXACTLY to: "Defender on player adjacent to the paint is allowed in defensive 3 second area."
[IMG]http://gifsforum.com/images_new/gif/other/grand/b209aeddf6bfaaa9fcaed8eea3c72c65.gif[/IMG]
[b]in this clip, Klay Thompson's dad (#43 in the middle of lane) would get a tech after 3 seconds in today's game because his man is out of "armslength".... but back then, he was legal because his man was "adjacent to the paint", which was the only requirement at the time - as you can see, "adjacent to the paint" (outside the paint) is out of "armslength" reach... also, notice how there is no need for Thompson to tippy-toe in and out of the paint.
[/B]
in previous eras, guys didn't have to worry about staying out of the lane or tippy-toeing - the 3 seconds rule was very simple back then: as long as their man was "adjacent to the paint", defenders could stay in the lane... so usually, they could camp in the lane for the entire possession because the paint is huge, and "adjacent to the paint" covers a ton of ground... Furthermore, "adjacent to the paint" could mean right next to the paint, a few feet outside the paint, or all the way out to the 3-point line - [url=http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=10695139&postcount=1][u]defenders routinely camped in the paint while their man was behind the 3-point line[/u][/url].
contrastingly, today's rule makes sure defenders can physically touch their man to stay in the lane, by requiring defenders be within "armslength" of an opponent - since players that are "adjacent to the paint", or [I]outside[/I] the paint, are OUT of armslength reach to defenders [I]inside[/I] the paint, players in today's game are not allowed to stay in the lane if their man is outside the paint.
Exactly... this was a huge advantage for 80s-90s scorers... allowed you to have many one-on-one situations.... I mean literally speaking, like if you faced your man up and looked behind him there was no wall there behind ready to contest & take charges, you blew by your man and it was over, defenders could only then run in to help/contest the easy basket which is a whole bit harder...
Illegal defense was a bit different to say the least....
...and while fans think handchecking made it tougher for players to score, i think it actually HELPED if you were a bigger/stronger guy, why? Because you as an offensive player were allowed to counter that physically with your own hands & body aswell, you could get away with many more elbow/off-hand push ofs, body riding and you could slap the defenders arms away from your vicinity (like Jordan used to do alot).... so if you were strong/athletic (and smart) as Jordan no guy at your position was really at an advantage....
Jordan was great, but this indeed helped alot....
3ball? What the hell are you talking about.... In the 90s, teams had to actually defend every player on the court unless they sent a hard double-team.... today you are allowed to amplify your entire roster on one player and get away with it.... [url]http://www.sbnation.com/2014/3/25/5542838/nba-rules-changes-lebron-james-michael-jordan[/url]
[QUOTE=navy]
Let's just say I agree. Now go back to the dumb point you were making.
[/QUOTE]
[IMG]http://gifsforum.com/images_new/gif/other/grand/10f1c13acb043d8be838b7cd90e5c5fd.gif[/IMG]
under today's rules, you can bring Ibaka from the weakside over to the strong side where lebron is, but he must come [I]all the way over[/I] so he is outside the lane - this leaves the weakside a man down and vulnerable to easy ball movement and assists to that side of the floor.
It should be noted that the setup shown in the GIF above (where defenders are tippy-toeing in and out of the lane) [i]is the common defensive setup in this spot[/i], as shown below again..
[IMG]http://gifsforum.com/images_new/gif/other/grand/8cfb1f5cd6acc974960d916586e49b4a.gif[/IMG]
Otoh, the setup shown below from [I]previous[/I] eras was superior, since defenders were allowed to camp in the lane and could therefore simultaneously defend the weakside while stopping the dribble-penetrator at the rim.
[IMG]http://gifsforum.com/images_new/gif/other/grand/c27a7589bc4681278938f85dbb781f40.gif[/IMG]
call this cherry-picking if you want - but this type of example is standard and there are thousands more, whereas it's impossible to find REVERSE examples where previous era paint defense is worse than today's.
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