Westbrook's dominance proves how easily MJ would be the best player today

[QUOTE=OldSchoolBBall]Imo he'd easily be better than Westbrook, Curry, Harden and probably Durant too (Jordan just did more as a playmaker and defender than KD or Harden do, and is a better scorer/defender than Curry; far more versatile and efficient than Westbrook). He'd have better numbers than Lebron this year even though 2015 Lebron is likely the better player.[/QUOTE]

How much better would Wizards Jordan be than them doe? We already know you believe any iteration of Bulls Jordan is better than all other players who have ever played combined...but what about Wizards Jordan? Is he just better than all players in an given era? Please tell us more.

[QUOTE=Smoke117]How much better would Wizards Jordan be than them doe? We already know you believe any iteration of Bulls Jordan is better than all other players who have ever played combined...but what about Wizards Jordan? Is he just better than all players in an given era? Please tell us more.[/QUOTE]

What part of my post do you actually disagree with, rather than just being snarky? Rookie Jordan simply was better than the players I listed for the reasons stated. Tell me where I'm wrong.

[QUOTE=OldSchoolBBall]Imo he'd easily be better than Westbrook, Curry, Harden and probably Durant too (Jordan just did more as a playmaker and defender than KD or Harden do, and is a better scorer/defender than Curry; far more versatile and efficient than Westbrook). He'd have better numbers than Lebron this year even though 2015 Lebron is likely the better player.[/QUOTE]

Rookie Jordan would be on Anthony Davis tier IMO (a little better than AD, but below LeBron), insane stats but on a losing/boarderline playoff team.



[QUOTE=3ball][SIZE="3"]Today's pace is 93.8, which is between 6% slower and 5% FASTER than the Bulls played during Jordan's career:
[/SIZE]

[U][B][SIZE="3"]Bulls Pace[/SIZE][/B]:
[/U]
[B]1985[/B]:[COLOR="White"].[/COLOR] 99.4.... 6% faster than today's 93.8 pace
[B]1986[/B]:[COLOR="White"].[/COLOR] 99.7.... 6%
[B]1987[/B]:[COLOR="White"].[/COLOR] 95.8.... 2%
[B]1988[/B]:[COLOR="White"].[/COLOR] 95.5.... 2%
[B]1989[/B]:[COLOR="White"].[/COLOR] 97.0.... 4%
[B]1990[/B]:[COLOR="White"].[/COLOR] 96.7.... 4%
[B]1991[/B]:[COLOR="White"].[/COLOR] 95.6.... 2%
[B]1992[/B]:[COLOR="White"].[/COLOR] 95.4.... 2%
[i][B]1993[/B]:[COLOR="White"].[/COLOR] 92.5.... (1%) slower than today's 93.8 pace
[B]1995[/B]:[COLOR="White"].[/COLOR] 92.0.... (2%)
[B]1996[/B]:[COLOR="White"].[/COLOR] 91.1.... (3%)
[B]1997[/B]:[COLOR="White"].[/COLOR] 90.0.... (4%)
[B]1998[/B]:[COLOR="White"].[/COLOR] 89.0.... (5%)
[/i]

Jordan 3-peated at a pace between 2% and 6% FASTER than today's game, and then again at a pace that was between 1% and 5% SLOWER than today's game.
.[/QUOTE]

I was referring to rookie Jordan, so your whole post is pretty much irrelevant.

I don't know why we still get sucked in to this...
Westbrook is probably more athletic than Jordan.
Jordan is a far better player than Westbrook will ever be.

Now for a realism point... I know, weird on ISH... how would Jordan do in today's game from a mentality sense? More media following his every excursion and mistake, a bigger microscope, and a more team-oriented approach?

More media/bigger microscope - Jordan has some pretty famous stories of skipping/cancelling practice, golfing before the Finals, partying, etc. Obviously he was still incredible, but the media likes to make something out of nothing. Jordan would have more BS to deal with. Not saying he couldn't do it (he certainly could and would) but it would definitely lower the public perception of him, and how would that grate on him?

Team-oriented approach - Tons of sources point to how difficult it was for any coach to make Jordan buy in to a particular brand of basketball. If Jordan is playing today, what coach is making him buy in now?

I'd say that Jordan in today's league would be VERY similar to Wilt. Tons of statistical glory, huge, inconceivable numbers, but a lot less titles than he "should" have considering his personal greatness. His relative unwillingness to sacrifice for the team would hold the team back.

3ball, in your opinion how does rookie MJ compare to the 2015 versions of LeBron, Westbrook, Harden, AD and Curry?

[QUOTE]How much better would Wizards Jordan be than them doe? We already know you believe any iteration of Bulls Jordan is better than all other players who have ever played combined...but what about Wizards Jordan? Is he just better than all players in an given era? Please tell us more.[/QUOTE]

Good question. 3ball?

[QUOTE=kshutts1][B]Westbrook is probably more athletic than Jordan.[/B]
[/QUOTE]

:coleman:

The logic presented isn't hard to follow. Westbrook is tearing up this league so a vastly superior form of him known as Jordan would tear up the league today even more so.

defensive rating is the best metric to evaluate defenses.

you compare lebron & jordan against said defenses with a 101 drtg or lower (yesterday's golden state warriors team), and jordan comes out looking like an inefficient volume scorer - evidenced by jordan's sub 41% shooting.

:confusedshrug:

[QUOTE=Prometheus]:coleman:[/QUOTE]
I don't get it.

For one, athleticism is incredibly subjective. No real measurement. It's easy to say that Michael Jordan is more athletic than Jared Sullinger.

But what about...
Kobe v Nash?

AI v KG?

As with anything, it depends on criteria. So much goes in to a person's athleticism that it's difficult to compare properly.

All I know is.. Westbrook appears to be an athletic stand-out in today's league. Dunks with ferocity, never seems to get tired, fast as hell, a leaper, great hand-eye coordination, balance, body control....

Jordan had all that, too.

I see literally ZERO reason to claim with any certainly that one is more athletic than the other. Zero.

[QUOTE=kshutts1]I don't get it.

For one, athleticism is incredibly subjective. No real measurement. It's easy to say that Michael Jordan is more athletic than Jared Sullinger.

But what about...
Kobe v Nash?

AI v KG?

As with anything, it depends on criteria. So much goes in to a person's athleticism that it's difficult to compare properly.

All I know is.. Westbrook appears to be an athletic stand-out in today's league. Dunks with ferocity, never seems to get tired, fast as hell, a leaper, great hand-eye coordination, balance, body control....

Jordan had all that, too.

I see literally ZERO reason to claim with any certainly that one is more athletic than the other. Zero.[/QUOTE]

Well I would say that age-for-age, Jordan was visibly quicker and faster, but it's close enough that it's not worth harping on...

If body control / agility / dexterity / balance / hand-eye coordination factors into athleticism... at all... it is a monstrous advantage for Jordan over Westbrook...

But most obviously... he jumped significantly higher.

[QUOTE=Prometheus]Well I would say that age-for-age, Jordan was visibly quicker and faster, but it's close enough that it's not worth harping on...

If body control / agility / dexterity / balance / hand-eye coordination factors into athleticism... at all... it is a monstrous advantage for Jordan over Westbrook...

But most obviously... he jumped significantly higher.[/QUOTE]
Why a monstrous advantage? What is your evidence?
And Jordan jumped higher? That's news to me. Pretty sure both are very similar leapers. I'd wager, without doing a full study, that they were within 2" of each other in terms of vert.

Pending your evidence, I'd say the athleticism is close enough to be a non-factor.

[QUOTE=kshutts1]Why a monstrous advantage? What is your evidence?
And Jordan jumped higher? That's news to me. Pretty sure both are very similar leapers. I'd wager, without doing a full study, that they were within 2" of each other in terms of vert.

Pending your evidence, I'd say the athleticism is close enough to be a non-factor.[/QUOTE]

Westbrook's draft profile has him listed at 36.5" but I'd be surprised if he was below 42". When he hit his head off the backboard in the ASG his head was very close to rim level...if it was at rim level he's at a 44.5" vertical.

Westbrook has similar straight line acceleration to Jordan once he gets moving (perhaps even a tad faster), but Jordan's first step was far superior. Jordan was also more agile laterally. You will never see a guy face his defender up and just choose a direction and blow by him regularly the way Jordan used to do. His first step was super fast and long. Coupled with his extra few inches on Westbrook, it made him impossible to stay in front of. He was also a far better leaper in every respect, far better body control, coordination, and reflexes.

I also lol @ these clowns who act like it's blasphemy to suggest that rookie Jordan was better than current Harden or Curry. Hysterical. Rookie MJ would sh!t on these clowns. :oldlol:

[QUOTE=OldSchoolBBall]Westbrook has similar straight line acceleration to Jordan once he gets moving (perhaps even a tad faster), but Jordan's first step was far superior. Jordan was also more agile laterally. You will never see a guy face his defender up and just choose a direction and blow by him regularly the way Jordan used to do. His first step was super fast and long. Coupled with his extra few inches on Westbrook, it made him impossible to stay in front of. He was also a far better leaper in every respect, far better body control, coordination, and reflexes.

[b]I also lol @ these clowns who act like it's blasphemy to suggest that rookie Jordan was better than current Harden or Curry. Hysterical. Rookie MJ would sh!t on these clowns. [/b]:oldlol:[/QUOTE]

Can't expect much of a valid opinion from those who only seen one era of basketball.

dont have much to add to the discussion but reading through this thread reminded me of my favorite jordan commercial. just thought id share.

[url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IpfzaqIuR34[/url]

[QUOTE=OldSchoolBBall][B]Westbrook has similar straight line acceleration to Jordan once he gets moving (perhaps even a tad faster), but Jordan's first step was far superior. Jordan was also more agile laterally. [/B] You will never see a guy face his defender up and just choose a direction and blow by him regularly the way Jordan used to do. His first step was super fast and long. Coupled with his extra few inches on Westbrook, it made him impossible to stay in front of. He was also a far better leaper in every respect, far better body control, coordination, and reflexes.

I also lol @ these clowns who act like it's blasphemy to suggest that rookie Jordan was better than current Harden or Curry. Hysterical. Rookie MJ would sh!t on these clowns. :oldlol:[/QUOTE]

I agree except I would just say Russel is faster in terms of straight line acceleration. I think its a big enough difference to say that.

[QUOTE=OldSchoolBBall]Westbrook has similar straight line acceleration to Jordan once he gets moving (perhaps even a tad faster), but Jordan's first step was far superior. Jordan was also more agile laterally. You will never see a guy face his defender up and just choose a direction and blow by him regularly the way Jordan used to do. His first step was super fast and long. Coupled with his extra few inches on Westbrook, it made him impossible to stay in front of. He was also a far better leaper in every respect, far better body control, coordination, and reflexes.[/quote]
:applause:

Jordan was maybe / probably on PED's

Westbrook is definitely on PED's


Jordan still better athlete though