Chamberlain with 21 KNOWN Playoff Triple Doubles

[QUOTE=LAZERUSS]Oh of course. After all this is WILT we are talking about, right. He is held to a MUCH higher standard than anyone else.

Here was a Wilt...ONLY FOUR MONTHS AFTER MAJOR KNEE SURGERY...putting up a 23-24 .625 Finals...but getting ripped for not blocking any shots in a game seven.

I have already pointed out the FLOP JOBS that players like a HEALTHY MJ, and KAJ put up in clinching series games, and following huge prior games. BUT, yes, Jordan gets excused for following up a 63 point playoff game with an 19 point game in a blowout loss; or KAJ following his brilliant game six of the '74 Finals, with a POS game seven, on his home floor, in a blowout loss, and getting outplayed by a foul-plagued Cowens in the process.

But again...this was WILT. Even on one leg he was EXPECTED to put up 45-27 games on 20-27 shooting in EVERY ONE of them.[/QUOTE]

I was just saying you can't make an injury excuse for Wilt's poor defense in Game 7. He had four games that postseason with 10+ blocks and yet [B]ZERO[/B] in that game.

Anyways, can you post some sources for his block totals? Like 7.7 bpg average in 1969...

[QUOTE=dankok8][B]Can you post the source for these block averages?
[/B]
Heck NBAstats has block tallies from some games listed as estimates but then counts them in another document.[/QUOTE]

Both the LA Herald Examiner and the Long Beach Press Examiner.

And no, I don't question those at nbastats.net. They have access to Google News Archives, as well as MANY other sources.

And no, I didn't include ANY of his "estimates"...although even some of them claim things like "at least 20 blocks." BTW, he likely had a MASSIVE QUAD DOUBLE on 3/24/67...his "estimated" blocks were 20, and recaps in other sources have had him with around that number, or a 16 point, 30 reb, 19 asst, 20 blk game.

I'm sure at the score keepers table they were able to use the many tv monitors available to watch replays and see if Wilt actually blocked a shot.

Maybe they watched the replay on the jumbo-tron above??

Or maybe he just guessed and said F*ck it.....it was a block, go Wilt!!

Elgin Baylor averaged 28 rebounds per game, go watch the footage and count them if you doubt.

[QUOTE=Hey Yo]I'm sure at the score keepers table they were able to use the many tv monitors available to watch replays and see if Wilt actually blocked a shot.

Maybe they watched the replay on the jumbo-tron above??

Or maybe he just guessed and said F*ck it.....it was a block, go Wilt!![/QUOTE]

Actually that was what happened in Shaq's "15 Block" game.

[url]https://lamarmatic.com/2015/08/19/an-unnecessary-breakdown-of-the-shaky-15-blocks-by-shaq/[/url]

MAYBE 10 blocks, and more likely only 8.

[QUOTE=LAZERUSS]Actually that was what happened in Shaq's "15 Block" game.

[url]https://lamarmatic.com/2015/08/19/an-unnecessary-breakdown-of-the-shaky-15-blocks-by-shaq/[/url]

MAYBE 10 blocks, and more likely only 8.[/QUOTE]
Would you mind linking up full game footage from the game below so I can break the game down when I get time?


[QUOTE]BTW, Wilt likely had a MASSIVE QUAD DOUBLE on 3/24/67...his "estimated" blocks were 20, and recaps in other sources have had him with around that number, or a 16 point, 30 reb, 19 asst, 20 blk game.[/QUOTE]

Thanks

[QUOTE=Hey Yo]Would you mind linking up full game footage from the game below so I can break the game down when I get time?




Thanks[/QUOTE]

Sure. If you can provide me footage of all 271 of Chamberlain's 40+ point NBA games. Hell, give me full footage from just ONE.

BTW, SI confirmed that Wilt blocked 23 shots in a NATIONALLY TELEVISED game on 12/25/68.

[url]http://www.si.com/vault/1969/01/27/559068/on-topbut-in-trouble[/url]

[QUOTE]So the Lakers walk the ball up the court, get arranged and then, as VBK says, start "to grind it out." The Lakers do not often make 100 points now. "Defense is the thing we're really living on," van Breda Kolff admits, and Chamberlain has been superb, sometimes even awesome, on defense. [B]In a recent game on national television he [COLOR="DarkRed"]blocked[/COLOR] [COLOR="DarkRed"]23 shots[/COLOR] against Phoenix[/B].[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=dankok8]Ya I misread it. They had four games labelled as a "finals game".[/QUOTE]

BTW, I have said it before...

While you and I disagree on many points, I do respect your opinions. You do your research. You are one of the few here that does.

For those that are late to the party...

[QUOTE]1. 3/22/62... 56 pts, 35 rebs, 12 blks Game 5 of 5 game series
2. 4/5/62... 22 pts, 22 rebs, 12 blks Game 7
3. 4/16/64... 39 pts, 30 rebs, 12 blks. Game 7
4. 3/26/65... 30 pts, 15 rebs, 10 asts
5. 3/31/65... 38 pts, 26 rebs, 10 blks Clincher
6. 4/4/65.... 33 pts, 31 rebs, 11 blks
7. 4/13/65... 30 pts, 26 rebs, 13 blks
8. 3/22/67... 37 pts, 27 rebs, 11 asts
9. 3/24/67... 16 pts, 30 rebs, 19 asts
10. 3/31/67... 24 pts, 32 rebs, 13 asts, 12 blks (quad-double)
11. 4/9/67.... 20 pts, 22 rebs, 10 asts
12. 4/11/67...29 pts, 36 rebs, 13 asts Clincher
13. 4/14/67... 16 pts, 33 rebs, 10 asts
14. 4/16/67... 10 pts, 38 rebs, 10 asts, 10 blks (quad-double)
15. 4/20/69... 16 pts, 29 rebs, 16 blks
16. 4/23/69... 15 pts, 23 rebs, 13 blks
17. 5/5/69... 18 pts, 27 rebs, 10 blks Game 7
18. 4/5/70.... 36 pts, 14 rebs, 10 blks
19. 4/7/70.... 12 pts, 26 rebs, 11 asts, 11 blks (quad-double)
20. 4/9/70.... 30 pts, 27 rebs, 12 blks Game 7
21. 4/19/70... 11 pts, 21 rebs, 10 blks Clincher
22. 3/30/71... 12 pts, 23 rebs, 10 blks
23. 4/22/72... 20 pts, 24 rebs, 10 blks Clincher (and against KAJ)
24. 5/7/72.... 24 pts, 29 rebs, 10 blks * (CavsFTW with 8) Clincher
25. 4/8/73... 11 pts, 30 rebs, 12 blks[/QUOTE]

9 triple doubles with 30+ points, including an unfathomable 56-35-12 game.

15 triple doubles with at least 20 points.

9 triple doubles with at least 30+ rebounds, with a high of 38.

23 triple doubles with at least 20+ rebounds.

13 triple doubles of at least 20 points and 20 rebounds.

3 triple doubles of at least 30 points and 30 rebounds.

5 triple doubles in "at the limit" games (4 in game seven's and another in a game five of a best-of-five series.)

9 triple doubles in series clinching games.

If we are to trust these unofficial stats by the way, Bill Russell has 17 playoff triple double games. That's behind Wilt's 25 but not that much and we know Russell's defense was about a lot more than blocked shots.

Russell also had a few games where he had double digit blocks but didn't get double digit points! :lol

[QUOTE=LAZERUSS]Sure. If you can provide me footage of all 271 of Chamberlain's 40+ point NBA games. Hell, give me full footage from just ONE.[/QUOTE]
All, so there is no footage or replay for scorekeepers or [B]today's media [/B]to watch and confirm during the game of any stats that any player put up back then?

[QUOTE]BTW, SI confirmed that Wilt blocked 23 shots in a NATIONALLY TELEVISED game on 12/25/68.[/QUOTE]
Well, if SI confirmed going by what the scorekeeper wrote, who had no access to replay, tv monitors or able to watch game footage later......I guess that means Wilts stats are exact right...... :oldlol:

[QUOTE=Hey Yo]AWell, if SI confirmed going by what the scorekeeper wrote, who had no access to replay, tv monitors or able to watch game footage later......I guess that means Wilts stats are exact right...... :oldlol:[/QUOTE]

It's reasonable to think Wilt did have a few games like that given his other crazy numbers which were counted, the pace of the games, with no three point line. And even if they weren't all accurate, Wilt was still putting up much bigger numbers than anyone else (granted Russell was close in rebounds and probably blocks).

A 23 block game for a Wilt, Russell or Thurmond in the 60s sounds doable. What is the official record, 17? Totally doable.

[QUOTE=Hey Yo]All, so there is no footage or replay for scorekeepers or [B]today's media [/B]to watch and confirm during the game of any stats that any player put up back then?


Well, if SI confirmed going by what the scorekeeper wrote, who had no access to replay, tv monitors or able to watch game footage later......I guess that means Wilts stats are exact right...... :oldlol:[/QUOTE]

Who has his stats kept "exact right"? Nobody does. It doesn't necessarily mean his stats are inflated due to this, at least among opponent city scorekeepers. E.g, Wilt was credited with 12 rebounds in that 1972 regular season game at Milwaukee that exists online, yet, if you watch the game, the real number is more like 17 (as many as Kareem got, although they credited him with 20). For better or worse, though, all that counts is what has been officially measured, not what is accurate and right.
Btw, that nationally televised 23 blocked shot game supposedly hasn't gone fully extinct (or at least hadn't, up to like 12-15 years ago). At least if my memory serves me correctly, an APBR member had claimed he had "recently" (back in the early 2000's) watched that game, although he didn't provide any info or video, so, take it as you want. It's not as if every now and then some "lost" game isn't ever re-surfaced (e.g, 1973 Finals, G5) or that absolutely nobody kept any kind of video archives back then, so, who knows.

[QUOTE=dankok8]If we are to trust these unofficial stats by the way, Bill Russell has 17 playoff triple double games. That's behind Wilt's 25 but not that much and we know Russell's defense was about a lot more than blocked shots.

Russell also had a few games where he had double digit blocks but didn't get double digit points! :lol[/QUOTE]

:applause: :applause: :applause:

Russell's IMPACT is well known. Not only that, but he put up some solid offensive series in his career, including multiple 20-20-6 .500+ Finals...and probably all with 7-8+ bpg.

He had better scoring and efficiency Finals in his career than D-Rob and Ewing. With far better rebounding and defensive impact.

[QUOTE=Psileas]Who has his stats kept "exact right"? Nobody does. It doesn't necessarily mean his stats are inflated due to this, at least among opponent city scorekeepers. E.g, Wilt was credited with 12 rebounds in that 1972 regular season game at Milwaukee that exists online, yet, if you watch the game, the real number is more like 17 (as many as Kareem got, although they credited him with 20). For better or worse, though, all that counts is what has been officially measured, not what is accurate and right.
Btw, that nationally televised 23 blocked shot game supposedly hasn't gone fully extinct (or at least hadn't, up to like 12-15 years ago). At least if my memory serves me correctly, an APBR member had claimed he had "recently" (back in the early 2000's) watched that game, although he didn't provide any info or video, so, take it as you want. It's not as if every now and then some "lost" game isn't ever re-surfaced (e.g, 1973 Finals, G5) or that absolutely nobody kept any kind of video archives back then, so, who knows.[/QUOTE]

All of this is 100% correct. Which is not much different than TODAY's NBA, where players are routinely gifted assists and rebounds. Hell, as was noted by TWO posters here, Shaq's "24-28-15" game was more like a 24-21-8 game.

Furthermore, and again as you noted, Wilt was often SHORT-CHANGED. Harvey Pollack, THE greatest statistician in NBA history, actually caught Boston score-keepers crediting Russell with considerably more rebounds, and Wilt with considerably less, than what actually occurred. In fact, he then had a writer from SI (I believe it was SI), count the rebounds in one game...one-by-one for both, and Russell's margin of 35-22 was almost completely the opposite.

We do KNOW, however, that the SCORING was correct, and amazingly, FG/FGAs and FT/FTAs, as well. In fact, Julizaver caught a FG/FGA error (it was just a typo BTW) in one of the Wilt-Russell H2H's, and, after adjusting a 12-38 down to the actual 12-30, it matched Wilt's seasonal totals to the exact amount.

Another thing...we do have FOOTAGE of partial games, as well, and in those we can SEE Chamberlain putting up impressive block totals. Albeit, his 10 blocks in game five of the '72 Finals only has 8. So, yes, we could probably remove that game from Wilt's 25 listed playoff triple-doubles. Of course, if we had block totals from all of his playoff games, he likely would hold all of the playoff triple-double (and quad-double) records.

[QUOTE=Psileas]Who has his stats kept "exact right"? Nobody does. It doesn't necessarily mean his stats are inflated due to this, at least among opponent city scorekeepers. E.g, Wilt was credited with 12 rebounds in that 1972 regular season game at Milwaukee that exists online, yet, if you watch the game, the real number is more like 17 (as many as Kareem got, although they credited him with 20). For better or worse, though, all that counts is what has been officially measured, not what is accurate and right.
Btw, that nationally televised 23 blocked shot game supposedly hasn't gone fully extinct (or at least hadn't, up to like 12-15 years ago). [B]At least if my memory serves me correctly, an APBR member had claimed he had "recently" (back in the early 2000's) watched that game, although he didn't provide any info or video, so, take it as you want. It's not as if every now and then some "lost" game isn't ever re-surfaced (e.g, 1973 Finals, G5) or that absolutely nobody kept any kind of video archives back then, so, who knows[/B].[/QUOTE]

If I recall...I remember not only reading about this, but that the APBR member actually CONFIRMED all 23 blocked shots in that footage.

Choking statpadding career loser. The mental midget, Ilt Chokerlain.

Almost 6 Decades later Chamberlain still The GOAT. From his 1959 rookie year to now he's been in the discussion,

I'll be shocked if LEbron makes it 6 years

[QUOTE=LAZERUSS]:applause: :applause: :applause:

Russell's IMPACT is well known. Not only that, but he put up some solid offensive series in his career, including multiple 20-20-6 .500+ Finals...and probably all with 7-8+ bpg.

He had better scoring and efficiency Finals in his career than D-Rob and Ewing. With far better rebounding and defensive impact.[/QUOTE]

You rarely ever acknowledge how great Russell was that this was a fresh change. Russell is a GOAT candidate as much as Wilt is. I know many people look at individual dominance but you can't just look past the 11 titles and the intangible impact.