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[QUOTE=kuniva_dAMiGhTy]This dude LeBron handpicks his f*cking teammates...and the fanboys still consider him and his teams "underdogs" :roll:[/QUOTE]
Right, LeBron changed teams twice, thus he's been the favorite in the NBA finals....
I totally see the correlation.
[IMG]http://24.media.tumblr.com/1549ef9f321d6a245b4abec88e25b121/tumblr_moz0rx8lzE1sqv808o1_250.gif[/IMG]
[QUOTE=tpols][B]didnt lebron get him benched after he had like a 30 and 10 game or somethin :roll: [/B]
he couldnt have that goon swiping the FMVP[/QUOTE]
[IMG]http://i441.photobucket.com/albums/qq135/UpchukCBR/AwJeezNotThisShitAgain.jpg[/IMG]
I really need to start getting my sports talk from elsewhere man :lol
[QUOTE=tpols]I knew this shit would happen even after the decision lol[/QUOTE]
You can't make this shit up dude.
Earlier I jokingly made a post about LeBron fans being the equivalent of Taylor Swift superfans. Yeah...it ain't a joke no more. :oldlol:
[QUOTE=tpols]didnt lebron get him benched after he had like a 30 and 10 game or somethin :roll:
he couldnt have that goon swiping the FMVP[/QUOTE]
everyone made excuses with the "Lebron had no help" argument but how does Lebron not get blamed for having his worst game of the series when his team had the chance to go up 3 - 1 in the series?
It was the same game Mozgov had 28 and 10 on 9/16 shooting and TT had 12/13 on 60% shooting
Lebron was a -15 (worst among starters, of course) as they got blown out by 19 points after GS outscored the Cavs by 15 points on the 4th quarter
Lebron was putting up 30-40 pt games for the rest of the series but had 20 pts on 7/22 shooting in the most pivotal game
It's not like Curry/Klay combined for 60 or anything, they had 22 each.
If this is such a great achievement, Lebron's fans should simply pitch in to buy him a chocolate medal or a blue ribbon to hang in his trophy case.
[QUOTE=ImKobe]everyone made excuses with the "Lebron had no help" argument but how does Lebron not get blamed for having his worst game of the series when his team had the chance to go up 3 - 1 in the series?
It was the same game Mozgov had 28 and 10 on 9/16 shooting and TT had 12/13 on 60% shooting
Lebron was a -15 (worst among starters, of course) as they got blown out by 19 points after GS outscored the Cavs by 15 points on the 4th quarter
Lebron was putting up 30-40 pt games for the rest of the series but had 20 pts on 7/22 shooting in the most pivotal game
It's not like Curry/Klay combined for 60 or anything, they had 22 each.[/QUOTE]
So you're blaming LeBron for putting up a Kobe-esque Finals game?
20/12/8 is still better than most Kobe Finals games :confusedshrug:
Sure but in context he was in a horrifcly weak conference on hand picked, manipulated stacked rosters.
6* Straight Finals Appearances
* = collusion
[QUOTE=SamuraiSWISH]Sure but in context he was in a horrifcly weak conference on hand picked, manipulated stacked rosters.[/QUOTE]
:roll:
Nice analysis, fake coach....:rolleyes:
[QUOTE=ArbitraryWater][IMG]http://i441.photobucket.com/albums/qq135/UpchukCBR/AwJeezNotThisShitAgain.jpg[/IMG]
I really need to start getting my sports talk from elsewhere man :lol[/QUOTE]
Friend told me this and I think it's true from the fans I know. Dumbest basketball fans he knows are the ones who hate on Bron(not the ones who don't like his game or have him outside the top 10 but the ones who hate on him ISH style).
[QUOTE=kuniva_dAMiGhTy]This dude LeBron handpicks his f*cking teammates...and the fanboys still consider him and his teams "underdogs" :roll:[/QUOTE]
that's a deflection, most teams are making ridiculous moves now. Spurs added an all nba pf to a team that's already a championship contender and no one bats an eye. Some of those moves didn't work out like the Lakers or Nets but they were ridiculous on paper. Lebron being an underdog is no different than Danny Ainge handpicking the big 3 and they were obvious underdogs 3 years later, something better came along.
[QUOTE=kuniva_dAMiGhTy]The Lakers lost to a stacked Philly squad in '83 that featured Doc/Malone/Cheeks/Toney/Jones... Then you have the '89 finals where they faced Detroit, and Magic missed half the damn series. :oldlol: Hell, the '91 Lakers went H2H versus Jordan's Bulls without Kareem and even MORE injuries.
Those are some pretty good teams to hold L's against, all things considered. :confusedshrug:[/QUOTE]
How about in 82 when they had two top 10 players of all time and lost in the first round to a 40-42 team?
Or when he single handedly choked in 3 games and lost a series they should have won 6 of the 7 games in.
Demanding perfection is idiocy. And that the point of this thread. Accept consistent greatness for greatness. Because everyone ever has had failings.
Well he needs to go at least 3-3(3/6), otherwise its better for him just not making it to NBA Finals. After all, the finals winning% matters.
[QUOTE=Kiddlovesnets]Well he needs to go at least 3-3(3/6), otherwise its better for him just not making it to NBA Finals. After all, the finals winning% matters.[/QUOTE]
It separates the the true winners from the chokers (leflop, ILt). :cheers:
[QUOTE=HurricaneKid]How about in 82 when they had two top 10 players of all time and lost in the first round to a 40-42 team?
Or when he single handedly choked in 3 games and lost a series they should have won 6 of the 7 games in.
Demanding perfection is idiocy. And that the point of this thread. Accept consistent greatness for greatness. Because everyone ever has had failings.[/QUOTE]
Uhhh, Houston was no ordinary "40-42" team. About 3 or 4 significant players on that squad were injured at some point during the regular-season, making their W/L record deceptive.
I do find it hilarious that you've been moving goalposts since my first comment in this thread. :oldlol: The original premise referenced the finals, and Magic simply won more than LeBron once both got there.
Lets see if you can stay on topic. :confusedshrug:
[QUOTE=NBAGOAT]that's a deflection, most teams are making ridiculous moves now. Spurs added an all nba pf to a team that's already a championship contender and no one bats an eye. Some of those moves didn't work out like the Lakers or Nets but they were ridiculous on paper. Lebron being an underdog is no different than Danny Ainge handpicking the big 3 and they were obvious underdogs 3 years later, something better came along.[/QUOTE]
Totally different scenario when you consider that LeBron handpicked his rosters not once...but twice (within 4 seasons AND in his prime :eek:)
[QUOTE=kuniva_dAMiGhTy]Uhhh, Houston was no ordinary "40-42" team. About 3 or 4 significant players on that squad were injured at some point during the regular-season, making their W/L record deceptive.
I do find it hilarious that you've been moving goalposts since my first comment in this thread. :oldlol: The original premise referenced the finals, and Magic simply won more than LeBron once both got there.
Lets see if you can stay on topic. :confusedshrug:
Totally different scenario when you consider that LeBron handpicked his rosters not once...but twice (within 4 seasons AND in his prime :eek:)[/QUOTE]
the handpicking thing is blown out of proportion and I rather have a gm handpick the roster anyway instead of a player. Golden State is one of the deepest teams of all time; Cavs are a slight underdog and that shouldn't be a slight on Bron even if he "handpicked" his roster. I mean especially a year like last year, there's no blame for being an underdog. On your initial point, Magic and the Lakers winning in the Finals really doesn't weaken the conference disparity argument that. It just means the Lakers were still the best team in the league those years. 3 maybe even 4 of the next best teams were in the East.
Lebron james making 6 straight finals is amazing regardless of competition. You still had to beat teams that won 55 plus games to make the title game.
A lot of people hate him for his image and how he's our your favorite teams out of contention. If he were to win the title this year people would still discredit him. He can't win either way. I'd love to see a city like Cleveland finally win something though.
[QUOTE=PP34Deuce]Lebron james making 6 straight finals is amazing regardless of competition. You still had to beat teams that won 55 plus games to make the title game.
A lot of people hate him for his image and how he's our your favorite teams out of contention. If he were to win the title this year people would still discredit him. He can't win either way. I'd love to see a city like Cleveland finally win something though.[/QUOTE]
Agreed.
People will somehow find a way to twist it and discredit LeBron if he wins this series somehow.
[QUOTE=NBAGOAT]the handpicking thing is blown out of proportion and I rather have a gm handpick the roster anyway instead of a player. Golden State is one of the deepest teams of all time; Cavs are a slight underdog and that shouldn't be a slight on Bron even if he "handpicked" his roster. I mean especially a year like last year, there's no blame for being an underdog. On your initial point, Magic and the Lakers winning in the Finals really doesn't weaken the conference disparity argument that. It just means the Lakers were still the best team in the league those years. 3 maybe even 4 of the next best teams were in the East.[/QUOTE]
Its actually never been done before. Like, name another player that's had as much pull as LeBron who left multiple 60+ win teams during his prime AND got to choose a handful of franchise caliber players to team-up with. You can't.
Far as my initial point is concerned, it may not "weaken" the conference argument, but it gets less talked about because Magic proved the Lakers could beat anyone. Superteams throughout the EAST even. LeBron on the other hand has proved the West has gotten the best of him, far more often than not.
[QUOTE]SIX Straight Finals Appearances Is A Major Accomplishment[/QUOTE]
In the east... and after colluding?!
LOL... sure, some accomplishment.
:oldlol:
In all 6 finals runs, he has not only had the most overall talent in the conference, but also at least one other top 5 player in the conference(first with D-Wade and now with Kyrie).
He is a great player, but this isn't some legendary achievement......not in that shitty conference.
[QUOTE=kuniva_dAMiGhTy]Its actually never been done before. Like, name another player that's had as much pull as LeBron who left multiple 60+ win teams during his prime AND got to choose a handful of franchise caliber players to team-up with. You can't.
Far as my initial point is concerned, it may not "weaken" the conference argument, but it gets less talked about because Magic proved the Lakers could beat anyone. Superteams throughout the EAST even. LeBron on the other hand has proved the West has gotten the best of him, far more often than not.[/QUOTE]
I agree with the 2nd part then even if I still believe it doesn't say too much about the conferences. Those 60+ win teams in Cleveland were pretty big aberrations. I'm not going call guys like Mo or Jamison trash. However, I'm pretty sure no 60+ win team has had a weaker supporting cast around their best player. It was not looking good for Lebron with the Boston big 3 and orlando with dwight and a couple all star type guys. Examples of guys who left for superteams are uncommon but out there. Wilt did get traded to a team with West/Baylor and philly won 62 games the year before. Moses signed with a team that just made the Finals and had a MVP candidate. Barkley was traded to contending teams twice. Big 3 Celtics was pretty ridiculous for the time until Miami came along. Other thing to consider is most of the all time greats had no reason to leave. Earliest guy on GOAT list who had a reason to leave might've been Drob and that poor dude is definitely underrated because his lack of success even when he carried the Spurs.
[QUOTE=NBAGOAT][B]I agree with the 2nd part then even if I still believe it doesn't say too much about the conferences. Those 60+ win teams in Cleveland were pretty big aberrations.[/B] I'm not going call guys like Mo or Jamison trash. However, I'm pretty sure no 60+ win team has had a weaker supporting cast around their best player. It was not looking good for Lebron with the Boston big 3 and orlando with dwight and a couple all star type guys. Examples of guys who left for superteams are uncommon but out there. Wilt did get traded to a team with West/Baylor and philly won 62 games the year before. Moses signed with a team that just made the Finals and had a MVP candidate. Barkley was traded to contending teams twice. Big 3 Celtics was pretty ridiculous for the time until Miami came along. Other thing to consider is most of the all time greats had no reason to leave. Earliest guy on GOAT list who had a reason to leave might've been Drob and that poor dude is definitely underrated because his lack of success even when he carried the Spurs.[/QUOTE]
Some of this is revisionist history.
Those 2009/2010 Cleveland Cavaliers may have lacked in star power, but they were the ideal teams that you would put around Lebron(Spacing and strong defense).
Also, Lebron could have won in 2010 if he had decided to show up in the Boston series.
I give Lebron credit for dragging the Cavs to the finals the first time around...but after that, it's been collusion to the point that the NBA has never seen before.
So...no...not a major accomplishment, anymore than scoring two points off a cherry pick is.
[QUOTE=game3524]Some of this is revisionist history.[/QUOTE]Unfortunately, all the LeBron stans from back then have created new accounts and now pretend the Cavs weren't clear favorites to win the title at the time. They were favorites against the Magic and Celtics.
After that, they were acting all cocky when the CHeats were formed, sure that Lebron would win every year. Now, it's an accomplishment on Lebron's part to simply having reached the Finals. :facepalm
[QUOTE=Phong]Unfortunately, all the LeBron stans from back then have created new accounts and now pretend the Cavs weren't clear favorites to win the title at the time. They were favorites against the Magic and Celtics.
After that, they were acting all cocky when the CHeats were formed, sure that Lebron would win every year. Now, it's an accomplishment on Lebron's part to simply having reached the Finals. :facepalm[/QUOTE]
Well they have to take pride in something since Lebron might end up as a transitional champion like Isiah and the Pistons.
[QUOTE=game3524]Some of this is revisionist history.
Those 2009/2010 Cleveland Cavaliers may have lacked in star power, but they were the ideal teams that you would put around Lebron(Spacing and strong defense).
Also, Lebron could have won in 2010 if he had decided to show up in the Boston series.[/QUOTE]
Exactly.
I've never heard of another superstar leaving multiple and perennial contenders, twice, in the midst of their prime. And that's the point. He had no reason to leave. He just...did.
[QUOTE=kuniva_dAMiGhTy]Exactly.
I've never heard of another superstar leaving multiple and perennial contenders, twice, in the midst of their prime. And that's the point. He had no reason to leave. He just...did.[/QUOTE]
You see I don't have much of a problem of him leaving Miami. That team was old and done and Cleveland looked like a better spot.
The first time is bullshit though, he could have won in 2010 and checked out before the series began.
Historically title teams have ALWAYS had one superstar/top 5 player, coupled with another or maybe even two all-stars... always, with the exception of the '90 Pistons, '04 Pistons (both GOAT-level defenses) and '14 Spurs who didn't have a top 5 player, and the '94 Rockets/'03 Spurs/'11 Mavericks, who didn't have another all-star next to their best player in the game...
go through the years. Thats the formula.
But apparently, for LeBron, Mo Williams and Anderson Varejao will do just fine...
[QUOTE=game3524]You see I don't have much of a problem of him leaving Miami. That team was old and done and Cleveland looked like a better spot.
The first time is bullshit though, he could have won in 2010 and checked out before the series began.[/QUOTE]
Miami did make the finals, but I get what you're saying.
Definitely agree on the Boston series. It gets swept under the rug because of the 2011 finals, but "elbow gate" was a total quit job.
[QUOTE=ArbitraryWater]Historically title teams have ALWAYS had one superstar/top 5 player, coupled with another or maybe even two all-stars... always, with the exception of the '90 Pistons, '04 Pistons (both GOAT-level defenses) and '14 Spurs who didn't have a top 5 player, and the '94 Rockets/'03 Spurs/'11 Mavericks, who didn't have another all-star next to their best player in the game...
go through the years. Thats the formula.
[B]But apparently, for LeBron, Mo Williams and Anderson Varejao will do just fine...[/B][/QUOTE]
You can spin it all you want. He was favored/expected to win in 2010 and he didn't get the job done, hell he didn't even make it to the conference finals and that is on him(if he played like he did in the regular season, they beat Boston in 6 and have good chance of beating an Orlando team that didn't have the Hedo advantage they had the year before).
He is a great player(top ten all-time), but the way you stans try to downplay the low points of his career is hilarious.
Was he shit in game 5? Of course... but checking out? Please.
Does this look like checking out?
[URL="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k4PUS1gPZJA"]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k4PUS1gPZJA[/URL]
Or his 30/20/10 with like 9 TO's in game 6? Nah..
He was so out of this world amazing from games 1-3, his overall series still looks good..
[QUOTE=ArbitraryWater]Was he shit in game 5? Of course... but checking out? Please.
Does this look like checking out?
[URL="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k4PUS1gPZJA"]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k4PUS1gPZJA[/URL]
Or his 30/20/10 with like 9 TO's in game 6? Nah..
He was so out of this world amazing from games 1-3, his overall series still looks good..[/QUOTE]
Guy definitely quit in game 5.
[url]http://espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=5365793[/url]
[url]http://espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=simmons/100512[/url]
Bill Simmons was a huge LeBron fan at the time, and actually called him out on it. :oldlol:
[QUOTE=game3524]You can spin it all you want. He was favored/expected to win in 2010 and he didn't get the job done, hell he didn't even make it to the conference finals and that is on him(if he played like he did in the regular season, they beat Boston in 6 and have good chance of beating an Orlando team that didn't have the Hedo advantage they had the year before).
He is a great player(top ten all-time), but the way you stans try to downplay the low points of his career is hilarious.[/QUOTE]
He was favored because he just arguably had the greatest regular season ever....
it was his dominance.
It wasnt the type of all-around 60+ win team, but the 60-win team carrying job.
61-21 - w/ LeBron: +11.5 w/o LeBron: -5.3 (16.8 on/off turnaround)
PG responsibilities with Mo out:
13 games: 31.7 points per game, 10.8 assists per game, 7.3 rebounds per game (12-1)
10 of the 13 games:
28 points, 9 rebounds, 11 assists vs. Toronto Raptors
37 points, 9 assists vs. Los Angeles Lakers
37 points, 9 rebounds, 13 assists vs. Oklahoma City Thunder
32 points, 9 rebounds, 14 assists vs. Miami Heat
22 points, 9 rebounds, 13 assists vs. Los Angeles Clippers
22 points, 6 rebounds, 15 assists vs. Memphis Grizzlies
36 points, 7 rebounds, 8 assists vs. Miami Heat
47 points, 8 rebounds, 8 assists vs. New York Knicks
32 points, 8 rebounds, 13 assists vs. Orlando Magic
43 points, 13 rebounds, 15 assists vs. Denver Nuggets
His averages: 31.7ppg 7.3rpg 10.8apg 1.8spg 1.2bpg (3.7 TOPG) on 48/31/76
Dominated Kobe... he was doing everything.
Dont tell me he was supposed to win....
that team went to #2 worst in the LEAGUE without him. Even before the trades... Mo became a back-up PG somewhere else, Shaq was done...
JJ Hickson, Anthony Parker, Daniel Gibson, Antawn Jamison, Mo Williams, Anderson Varejao, Jamario Moon won 66 games with LeBron...
the next year they went on the worst losing streak of all time (26 games)...
trades and different players after a while? Sure, but the 2010 team wasnt set in concrete in the first place....
Shaq missed 1/3 the season, Illgauskas was done, West was in and out of lineup and with the usual legal/mental problems, and Mo Williams missed 15 straight games.
Their record during that stretch? 14-1.
Don't make any 'but trades!' excuses.
That team was all LeBron... all of it. Listen man.
His quitting was so obvious that people said Lebron quit because the entire team knew about Delonte and Lebron's mom; that he felt betrayed and decided to quit on the whole team and run to Miami.
[QUOTE=ArbitraryWater]He was favored because he just arguably had the greatest regular season ever....
it was his dominance.
It wasnt the type of all-around 60+ win team, but the 60-win team carrying job.
61-21 - w/ LeBron: +11.5 w/o LeBron: -5.3 (16.8 on/off turnaround)
PG responsibilities with Mo out:
13 games: 31.7 points per game, 10.8 assists per game, 7.3 rebounds per game (12-1)
10 of the 13 games:
28 points, 9 rebounds, 11 assists vs. Toronto Raptors
37 points, 9 assists vs. Los Angeles Lakers
37 points, 9 rebounds, 13 assists vs. Oklahoma City Thunder
32 points, 9 rebounds, 14 assists vs. Miami Heat
22 points, 9 rebounds, 13 assists vs. Los Angeles Clippers
22 points, 6 rebounds, 15 assists vs. Memphis Grizzlies
36 points, 7 rebounds, 8 assists vs. Miami Heat
47 points, 8 rebounds, 8 assists vs. New York Knicks
32 points, 8 rebounds, 13 assists vs. Orlando Magic
43 points, 13 rebounds, 15 assists vs. Denver Nuggets
His averages: 31.7ppg 7.3rpg 10.8apg 1.8spg 1.2bpg (3.7 TOPG) on 48/31/76
Dominated Kobe... he was doing everything.
[B]Dont tell me he was supposed to win....[/B]
that team went to #2 worst in the LEAGUE without him. Even before the trades... Mo became a back-up PG somewhere else, Shaq was done...
JJ Hickson, Anthony Parker, Daniel Gibson, Antawn Jamison, Mo Williams, Anderson Varejao, Jamario Moon won 66 games with LeBron...
the next year they went on the worst losing streak of all time (26 games)...
trades and different players after a while? Sure, but the 2010 team wasnt set in concrete in the first place....
Shaq missed 1/3 the season, Illgauskas was done, West was in and out of lineup and with the usual legal/mental problems, and Mo Williams missed 15 straight games.
Their record during that stretch? 14-1.
Don't make any 'but trades!' excuses.
That team was all LeBron... all of it. Listen man.[/QUOTE]
Of course he was suppose to win.:oldlol:
Best record in the league, he is the best player. The defending champions(Lakers) best player was hobbled and playing on one-leg, the defending Eastern Conference champions(Orlando) had regressed and didn't possess the same match up advantages they had last year. Another contender(Celtics) big three looked aged and had a 2nd half collapse.
These are facts, and you can try to white washing all you want, but it is what it is. If Lebron played up to his standards in game 5, he pretty much guarantees a game 7 at home and would face of against an Orlando team that wasn't as good as it was the year before and the Cavs matched up much better this time around.
his standards were GOAT standards though... thats the level he played at that year and what it took to get that team in that position. Youre putting him on GOAT range by expecting so.
[QUOTE=ArbitraryWater]his standards were GOAT standards though... thats the level he played at that year and what it took to get that team in that position. Youre putting him on GOAT range by expecting so.[/QUOTE]
GOAT standards?:oldlol:
No one is saying he had to put up consistent 45/17/6 or whatever he put up against the Celtics in 2012. Just play how you did so far in the post-season and play with energy and you team advances to the conferences finals.
He didn't do that in game 5.
Kobe pretty much did the same thing
The East has been relatively weak for the run. That said, the streak is an amazing accomplishment.
[QUOTE=STATUTORY]not if you play in the east and actively colluded[/QUOTE]
This :applause: