[QUOTE=Richie2k6]And without his power, he'd probably be an Amare Stoudemire, but less athletic and slower. Who knows?[/QUOTE]
Are you kidding me? Since when does Shaq hit 15 foot jump shots?
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[QUOTE=Richie2k6]And without his power, he'd probably be an Amare Stoudemire, but less athletic and slower. Who knows?[/QUOTE]
Are you kidding me? Since when does Shaq hit 15 foot jump shots?
[QUOTE=Richie2k6]If there were a big, fat guy in high school that could do nothing but dunk, and I mean NOTHING but dunk, not even dribble well, pass well, or rebound well, I wouldn't draft him. I wouldn't draft someone who can only dunk. He'd have to have court vision, brains, and skills, all of which Shaquille O'Neal has a lot of.[/QUOTE]
I agree but lets be honest here Rich...Shaq is who he is because of his freakish size
[QUOTE=Richie2k6]Reffed? Jordan I suppose.
[/QUOTE]
ok...I think me and you are pretty much on the same page here
[QUOTE=Richie2k6]And without his power, he'd probably be an Amare Stoudemire, [B][SIZE="3"]but less athletic and slower[/SIZE][/B]. Who knows?[/QUOTE]
those words are pretty key
[QUOTE=White Chocolate]Are you kidding me? Since when does Shaq hit 15 foot jump shots?[/QUOTE]
Notice how I said "Who knows." If Shaq didn't have his size, he'd be shooting jumpers, because he'd have no choice but to practice them because he wouldn't be able to overpower everyone. Either that or he'd be a fundamental giant, like Duncan.
[quote]I agree but lets be honest here Rich...Shaq is who he is because of his freakish size[/quote]
And he'd be a totally different player if he had a generic 6"10, 250lbs body.
[QUOTE=White Chocolate][QUOTE=Richie2k6]
No doubt, Shaq was very agile and athletic in his prime, but his game always consisted of dunks and baby hooks, which start off with post up moves. Any 7 footer can block shots, dunk, and get rebounds. [B]Power has always been Shaq's most valuable asset. Without it, where would he be?[/B][/QUOTE]
where would jordan be if he didn't have the 40+ vert, or the overall athletic ability. Shaq wasn't just born big, he had to work for that body and work to have enough stamina to keep up with smaller guys gong up and down the court.
Why wasn't shawn bradley dominating the nba? What about olowokandi?
And how is Jordan going to stop shaq from getting to the paint again?
[QUOTE=thenextgreatbigman] Shaq wasn't just born big, he had to work for that body and work to have enough stamina to keep up with smaller guys gong up and down the court.
[/QUOTE]
I am pretty sure shaq's DNA has something to do with how big he is...
pretty....sure
why are we talking about Shaq when the topic is clearly Jordan vs Lebron?
[QUOTE=-primetime-]I am pretty sure shaq's DNA has something to do with how big he is...
pretty....sure[/QUOTE]
He was just born tall, not heavy. The weight and muscle was something he worked on himself.
[quote]
why are we talking about Shaq when the topic is clearly Jordan vs Lebron?[/quote]
Because Shaq >>> The World.
[QUOTE=-primetime-]ok if there is no ref and no rules then you are right...Shaq could just punch Jordan in the face and knock him out every play...[/quote]
So in your world of one on one, the game only takes place in a gym with a ref, or in prison where shanking or punching your opponent in the face is perfectly legal.
[quote]why would shaq need to dribble?...this is basketball isn't it?[/quote]
Yes, one on one basketball, he doesnt need to be dribbling like Hot Sauce or Iverson to get points, a simple turn and back down move would be fairly sufficient. I have a pretty good test, go find one so-so skilled 6"1 200lbs 10th grader who can only make close shots, and find the most talented 5th grader you can, and see who wins.
[quote]the last time I checked you had to dribble the ball down the court if you want to get in shooting range...
[b]oh wait...I forgot....there are no refs so shaq could just run holding the ball...my bad.[/b]
to think that Shaq has the ball skills to beat Jordan in a game of one on one is seriously one of the dumbest things I have ever heard here...the fact that you think it is funny to think that MJ would win is really sad...[/QUOTE]
Ok, it's even more obvious now that you actually dont play basketball.
[QUOTE=Richie2k6]
Because Shaq >>> The World.[/QUOTE]
1 on 1 yes.
[QUOTE=-primetime-]ok if there is no ref and no rules then you are right...Shaq could just punch Jordan in the face and knock him out every play...[/quote]
So in your world of one on one, the game only takes place in a gym with a ref, or in prison where shanking or punching your opponent in the face is perfectly legal.
[quote]why would shaq need to dribble?...this is basketball isn't it?[/quote]
Yes, one on one basketball, he doesnt need to be dribbling like Hot Sauce or Iverson to get points, a simple turn and back down move would be fairly sufficient. I have a pretty good test, go find one so-so skilled 6"1 210lbs 10th grader who can only make close shots, and find the most talented 5"6 120lbs 6th grader you can, and see who wins.
[quote]the last time I checked you had to dribble the ball down the court if you want to get in shooting range...
[b]oh wait...I forgot....there are no refs so shaq could just run holding the ball...my bad.[/b]
to think that Shaq has the ball skills to beat Jordan in a game of one on one is seriously one of the dumbest things I have ever heard here...the fact that you think it is funny to think that MJ would win is really sad...[/QUOTE]
Ok, it's even more obvious now that you actually dont play basketball.
[QUOTE=abuC]you tried to sell me on Jordan running a 4.3 40yd once, so I know what Im debating with.[/QUOTE]
I didn't try to "sell" you anything. I posted a Sports Illustrated article which [b]said[/b] that he ran a 4.3/40 at UNC. Just like people [b]say[/b] that Lebron runs at 4.4 or 4.3/40. Personally I take both with a grain of salt due to the inaccuracy of the measurements, but if you accept one, you have to accept both.
And I never acted like Bron is an "oaf," but if you don't think that Jordan could rip him once or twice, well...
[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ctj3yyfCErI[/url]
[QUOTE=thenextgreatbigman][url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ctj3yyfCErI[/url][/QUOTE]
so he couldn't even dribble when he was young?
Jordans trash talking alone would cause lebron to lose the game. he would be so far in lebrons mind, lebron wouldnt know what the hell is going on.
i say give lebron 5 years to showcase how well he develops in his prime...then you can make solid comparisions once lebron has shown more to strengthen his case better.
[QUOTE=abuC]LMAO, there would be a ref in a one on one game, are you serious? Who cares if he's capable of making a jumpshot, the point is that MJ would not be able to stop Shaq from backing him down to the point Jordan is standing under the hoop. This is nearly a 180lbs weight difference, it's the equivalent of two Jordan's leaning on one Jordan, according to some of you just one Jordan is all that is needed to tear the fabric of space and time.
Why would Shaq need a dribble, he outweighs Jordan by nearly 2x, that is an absurd amount of weight difference. There is no amount of leverage MJ can gain to stop that much weight from pushing him around, he would need to snare Shaq's foot in a bear trap and tie the other end to a Ford F-150 to pull Shaq out of the paint.
Im literally cracking up here, I cannot believe how ridiculous this post is. :roll: Im almost certain you dont play basketball.[/QUOTE]
:oldlol: :oldlol: @ this entire post.
lmao at anyone who thinks shaq could handle jordan one on one...
seriously....delete thread
Jordan wins. You're underrating Jordan's defense, he was a lock down defender in his prime. 1 on 1 is also about jumpshooting a lot. Lebron may have a decent jumper, but Jordan had the best fadeaway in the game, and probably all-time. Jordan also has the passion to win that Lebron doesn't.
Final Score
Jordan - 21
Lebron - 13
this is one of those "guy A did great recently so he's better than jordan" topics..
jordan would rip lebron a new *******, fact is, as good as lebron was the other night, and im not taking ANYTHING away from the kid, but even no names get lucky once in a while. lebron needs to repeat what he did more and more to even touch what jordan did
now lebron vs jordan 1 on 1? if we're talking prime vs prime, id take jordan anyday, only becauses mike reached deep down to rip yoru heart out. if he lost he took it as a personal insult against him, and he doesn't like being insulted
Didn't Jordan play one on one with Rasheed Wallace back when Rasheed was still in North Carolina and Jordan owned the crap out of him? Rasheed had the size and strength advantage. But Jordan is Jordan...
[QUOTE=AznBBoyX]Didn't Jordan play one on one with Rasheed Wallace back when Rasheed was still in North Carolina and Jordan owned the crap out of him? Rasheed had the size and strength advantage. But Jordan is Jordan...[/QUOTE]
Didnt he make him cry too?
didn't shaq abuse sheed? Wasn't sheed like 230 in college, and wasn't jordan in his prime?
Isn't shaq 10 times better than sheed even now?
[QUOTE=AznBBoyX]Didn't Jordan play one on one with Rasheed Wallace back when Rasheed was still in North Carolina and Jordan owned the crap out of him? Rasheed had the size and strength advantage. But Jordan is Jordan...[/QUOTE]
Yup. Some dude on here posted the story, and Jordan made Sheed literally cry. :oldlol: I've been trying to find out who told that story the first time, because I'd love to hear it again. A 39 year old Jordan also destroyed Kwame Brown in a one-on-one, though I realize Brown is no Shaq; still, it's evidence that big does not always trump small.
[QUOTE=thenextgreatbigman]That post explains it all, you don't play basketball.
Do yuo know how wide shaq is? Getting around him is not an easy thing to do, [/QUOTE]
Maybe you've never played basketball. If "being wide" is considered an advantage in "stopping drives". Then fat people would own streetball.
Get real. Not only could Jordan blow by Shaq off the dribble everytime, so could 80-85% of all guards in the league.
The only defense Shaq can do in a one on one vs a guard is to back off a few feet, and try to force them into taking a J. He cannot possibly move out on the perimeter and body a guard up. So if someone gets hot with the midrange J, and it's a winner's out.... Shaq could very get donut by a guard with a J.
Now if Shaq gets the ball, yeah Jordan can't guard him in the post too. And because of that, I'm not here to argue who would have won, I dunno, but I am telling you that you are WRONG and foolish to think "Shaq is wide, so Jordan wouldn't be able to drive by him"
Nash = Best. Please don't turn into Howard4Nowitzki. Meaning don't make me dislike Nash and hope he loses just because you are annoying. Because that's what Howard4Nowitzki did to me. I respect Dirk, but boy I couldn't wait for hte Mavs to lose because their fans on ISH put themselves on a high horse, especially after last playoffs.
Your thread about Lebron vs jordan is ok, but I see you making some clown ass joke about Jordan's "69 point game" wasn't in the playoffs... as if somehow, Jordan is lacking in the "playoff heroics" department.
Um, Jordan has more big games in the playoffs than Nash has in his entire career. Including preseason, exhibitions, all star games, charity games, pickup games, whatever.
[QUOTE=EricForman]Maybe you've never played basketball. If "being wide" is considered an advantage in "stopping drives". Then fat people would own streetball.
Get real. Not only could Jordan blow by Shaq off the dribble everytime, so could 80-85% of all guards in the league.
The only defense Shaq can do in a one on one vs a guard is to back off a few feet, and try to force them into taking a J. He cannot possibly move out on the perimeter and body a guard up. So if someone gets hot with the midrange J, and it's a winner's out.... Shaq could very get donut by a guard with a J.
Now if Shaq gets the ball, yeah Jordan can't guard him in the post too. And because of that, I'm not here to argue who would have won, I dunno, but I am telling you that you are WRONG and foolish to think "Shaq is wide, so Jordan wouldn't be able to drive by him"[/QUOTE]
Actually i've played basketball every day for the last 4-5 years. I'm playing HS ball and get to play with some of the better players in NY.
There's this older guy at the park i go to that's close to 300lbs, all he does is slide his feet, bu mp into you and you're not going anywhere. He gives you room for a jumpshot, he's like 5'10 and it's still hard to get a great look over him. Shaq is 7'2, he puts his arms up and you're not going to get a great look at the basket.
Jordan might hit 2/3 even 3/4 of his jumpshots but shaq gets the rebound and scores 9/10 times. Jordan is the GOAT but that doesn't mean that he'll make every shot.
[QUOTE=EricForman]Nash = Best. Please don't turn into Howard4Nowitzki. Meaning don't make me dislike Nash and hope he loses just because you are annoying. Because that's what Howard4Nowitzki did to me. I respect Dirk, but boy I couldn't wait for hte Mavs to lose because their fans on ISH put themselves on a high horse, especially after last playoffs.
Your thread about Lebron vs jordan is ok, but I see you making some clown ass joke about Jordan's "69 point game" wasn't in the playoffs... as if somehow, Jordan is lacking in the "playoff heroics" department.
Um, Jordan has more big games in the playoffs than Nash has in his entire career. Including preseason, exhibitions, all star games, charity games, pickup games, whatever.[/QUOTE]
What the phuck do any of my comments on Jordan have to do with Nash?
I happen to think that LeBron's 48 is more impressive than Jordan's 69 because LeBron did in the Playoffs.
But of course Jordan's 63 in the Playoffs > than LeBron's 48 even though it was in a loss.
Dude please dont turn this into your own agenda to "Bash on Nash",
Ive made a pledge to myself not to bring up Nash until next season,
But good try on trying to turn this into a "Nash Hate" thread.
[QUOTE=thenextgreatbigman]Actually i've played basketball every day for the last 4-5 years. I'm playing HS ball and get to play with some of the better players in NY.
[B]There's this older guy at the park i go to that's close to 300lbs, all he does is slide his feet, bu mp into you and you're not going anywhere.[/B] He gives you room for a jumpshot, he's like 5'10 and it's still hard to get a great look over him. Shaq is 7'2, he puts his arms up and you're not going to get a great look at the basket.
Jordan might hit 2/3 even 3/4 of his jumpshots but shaq gets the rebound and scores 9/10 times. Jordan is the GOAT but that doesn't mean that he'll make every shot.[/QUOTE]
that's called a blocking foul. But then I guess you're right. You have a point. In a one on one game, illegal stuff like blocking fouls would be allowed, therefore, fat guys CAN do that. I was going by NBA rulse, where there is no way Shaq could keep up with Jordan off the dribble. But yeah you're right, in a one on one, Shaq could probably get away with what you just described, meaning ILLEGAL basketball moves.
Anyway, I'm not here to argue who would win, I just disagreed with Shaq being able to guard jordan out on the perimeter.... but I forgot to factor in the illegal-ness of a one on one game.
[QUOTE=EricForman]Maybe you've never played basketball. If "being wide" is considered an advantage in "stopping drives". Then fat people would own streetball.
Get real. Not only could Jordan blow by Shaq off the dribble everytime, so could 80-85% of all guards in the league.
The only defense Shaq can do in a one on one vs a guard is to back off a few feet, and try to force them into taking a J. He cannot possibly move out on the perimeter and body a guard up. So if someone gets hot with the midrange J, and it's a winner's out.... Shaq could very get donut by a guard with a J.
Now if Shaq gets the ball, yeah Jordan can't guard him in the post too. And because of that, I'm not here to argue who would have won, I dunno, but I am telling you that you are WRONG and foolish to think "Shaq is wide, so Jordan wouldn't be able to drive by him"[/QUOTE]
Eric, thank you for the back up and helping these morons relealize that they are....morons.
that being said I have to argue with you about the fact that MJ couldn't guard Shaq...if we where to assume that this game is being reffed then MJ would have to do is is stand there and rack up charging fouls because Shaq sure as hell does not have the skills to drive past him...
[QUOTE=thenextgreatbigman]Actually i've played basketball every day for the last 4-5 years. I'm playing HS ball and get to play with some of the better players in NY.
There's this older guy at the park i go to that's close to 300lbs, all he does is slide his feet, bu mp into you and you're not going anywhere. He gives you room for a jumpshot, he's like 5'10 and it's still hard to get a great look over him. Shaq is 7'2, he puts his arms up and you're not going to get a great look at the basket.
Jordan might hit 2/3 even 3/4 of his jumpshots but shaq gets the rebound and scores 9/10 times. Jordan is the GOAT but that doesn't mean that he'll make every shot.[/QUOTE]
ok....you are just a high school kid...makes sense now.
yeah, any 300 lb old guy would destroy a high school kid in a game of one on one....especially if it is un reffed...now I can see how you became brain washed into thinking that MJ would lose to Shaq one on one..
[QUOTE=EricForman]that's called a blocking foul. But then I guess you're right. You have a point. In a one on one game, illegal stuff like blocking fouls would be allowed, therefore, fat guys CAN do that. I was going by NBA rulse, where there is no way Shaq could keep up with Jordan off the dribble. But yeah you're right, in a one on one, Shaq could probably get away with what you just described, meaning ILLEGAL basketball moves.
Anyway, I'm not here to argue who would win, I just disagreed with Shaq being able to guard jordan out on the perimeter.... but I forgot to factor in the illegal-ness of a one on one game.[/QUOTE]
when this thread started I assumed two things about the situation...
1. FULL COURT
2. REFS
if we are talking about a half court anything goes game then things are very different
A one on one game is usually a half court game where you have to clear it at half court with NO refs and only obvious, hard fouls are counted, if not, no fouls at all.
Someone like KG would give MJ some problems in a one on one game but nahh.
To beat MJ in a one on one game you would have to be first of all a decent to great defender, good speed and quickness, have many different ways of scoring, some type of advantage over MJ like 3pt shooting, height, weight, or something, and some type of mental toughness cause MJ would make you pay for every basket you score.
All time, the one who I think would give more problems to MJ in a one on one game and probably beat him would be The Dream. But that's just a thought.
[QUOTE=Richie2k6]A one on one game is usually a half court game where you have to clear it at half court with NO refs and only obvious, hard fouls are counted, if not, no fouls at all.[/QUOTE]
well yeah, when you are a kid...
but since we are talking about to professionals I had got the idea that it would be done in a professional manner...
kind of like the Shaq vs. hakeem one on one pay per view game that almost went down...
[QUOTE=-primetime-]when this thread started I assumed two things about the situation...
1. FULL COURT
2. REFS
if we are talking about a half court anything goes game then things are very different[/QUOTE]
you don't play full court one on one ever. That just ends up a layup drill.
[QUOTE=thenextgreatbigman]you don't play full court one on one ever. That just ends up a layup drill.[/QUOTE]
you do when you are 2 of the greatest pros ever to play the game...
I wasn't thinking about a half court game with a chain net...
at least you admitt to the fact that if it was a full court reffed game that MJ would dominate Shaq...
[QUOTE=-primetime-]you do when you are 2 of the greatest pros ever to play the game...
I wasn't thinking about a half court game with a chain net...
at least you admitt to the fact that if it was a full court reffed game that MJ would dominate Shaq...[/QUOTE]
Why would they ever play fullcourt? I could see them playing with refs possibly but never full court that would just be retarded.
[QUOTE=-primetime-]you do when you are 2 of the greatest pros ever to play the game...
I wasn't thinking about a half court game with a chain net...
at least you admitt to the fact that if it was a full court reffed game that MJ would dominate Shaq...[/QUOTE]
yeah but when i was arguing this i meant half court because last time i checked all 1on1 games are half court.
[QUOTE=thenextgreatbigman]yeah but when i was arguing this i meant half court because last time i checked all 1on1 games are half court.[/QUOTE]
when Shaq was going to play hakeem on Pay per View it was going to be full court...
the reason most one on one games are half court is for the simple fact that most people don't grow up with a FULL COURT...
since we were talking Shaq vs. the GOAT I didn't have ghetto ball in my head