Tell me what makes Kobe Bryant better than Bradley Beal or Devin Booker

[QUOTE=RRR3;14348005]:facepalm

Stop it.[/QUOTE]

Answer.


Why is Kobe supposed to be better than Mitchell.

[QUOTE=ArbitraryWater;14348007]Answer.


Why is Kobe supposed to be better than Mitchell.[/QUOTE]
You like stats. His stats are better. There you go.

[QUOTE=RRR3;14348008]You like stats. His stats are better. There you go.[/QUOTE]

I asked you a question.

What does Kobe do outside of the stat sheet, that isnt being recorded/documented by basketball basic or advanced stats, to top Mitchell?

[QUOTE=ArbitraryWater;14348007]Answer.


Why is Kobe supposed to be better than Mitchell.[/QUOTE]

Better production in a tougher defensive era. Mitchell hasn't even made an All-NBA team yet and he's 24 :kobe: .

[QUOTE=ArbitraryWater;14348011]I asked you a question.

What does Kobe do outside of the stat sheet, that isnt being recorded/documented by basketball basic or advanced stats, to top Mitchell?[/QUOTE]
Um...everything besides 3pt shooting.

[QUOTE=ImKobe;14348013]Better production in a tougher defensive era. Mitchell hasn't even made an All-NBA team yet and he's 24 :kobe: .[/QUOTE]

He didnt have better production though.

Mitchell is on pace to be a same level playoff scorer in volume, on better efficiency.


Kobe has a defensive edge from 99-03, and thats about it.

Its a slim argument.

There is nothing he gives more to a team.



Are we gonna forever keep him above better producing and more efficient players because he played in a tougher defensive era?


Seems pretty weak.

[QUOTE=ArbitraryWater;14348018]He didnt have better production though.

Mitchell is on pace to be a same level playoff scorer in volume, on better efficiency.


Kobe has a defensive edge from 99-03, and thats about it.

Its a slim argument.

There is nothing he gives more to a team.



Are we gonna forever keep him above better producing and more efficient players because he played in a tougher defensive era?


Seems pretty weak.[/QUOTE]

He did.

Mitchell 2021: 26/4/5 56.9%TS, league average TS% is 57.2
Kobe 2003: 30/7/6 55%TS, league average TS% was 51.9

now stfu

[QUOTE=RRR3;14348017]Um...everything besides 3pt shooting.[/QUOTE]

by that logic Kobe will always keep his place as fundamentally he's textbook.


production doesn't seem to matter anymore when it comes to Kobe.

He had ideal mechanics, good enough.

[QUOTE=ImKobe;14348020]He did.

Mitchell 2021: 26/4/5 56.9%TS, league average TS% is 57.2
Kobe 2003: 30/7/6 55%TS, league average TS% was 51.9

now stfu[/QUOTE]


league average TS%? :roll:

So Russell was also an offensive GOAT?

[QUOTE=ArbitraryWater;14348025]league average TS%? :roll:

So Russell was also an offensive GOAT?[/QUOTE]

Yes, I used the league average to illustrate that it was much harder to score in the early 2000s vs. right now. I shouldn't even have to explain this but you clearly have 0 knowledge about the game of basketball and are trying to compare undersized SGs with limited all-around game to a top 10 ATG.

The fact u need someone else to convince u why kobe is better than Bradley Beal or Devin Booker, is already embarrassing.

why not just leave msg on their twitter, and tell them u think they are better than kobe.

I don't think that even those guys think they're anywhere near Kobe's level. Maybe not even their moms believe so.

You self admittedly started watching in '11. You have no feel for the league prior to that. Go watch the '01 All-Star game(sic) it should be still up on youtube.

Why the AS game? It's a glorified offense showcase, right? Just watch it and it might give you a hint how the league was back then.

When the rules changed mid 2000s scoring for some guys exploded. But it's nothing like now. The league has become a layup line - 3pt contest mix. Easy to score efficient on high volume if you get easy baskets at the rim and 3. You think past greats couldn't adapt? You think Booker would be as efficient in any iteration of the league?

[QUOTE=ArbitraryWater;14348004]You can add Mitchell to this, by the way....



the answer is still nothing.[/QUOTE]

Mitchell gets this shit quite interesting.

Mitchell is similar to a young Kobe on style and athleticism.

Ridiculously quick and strong in combo. Getting better at change of direction moves every year it seems. Crazy extension on pull up jumpers like young Kobe or VC.

Is in general just really rare body wise for the sport, and can get in ready shooti rhythms like the last two playoffs.

And can really defend the hell out of it with all the athleticism. Mitchell is Wade-ish on the body but really does give you that young reckless Kobe vibe on play style.

I was gonna talk about him in a thread.


Mitchell is playing like peak/prime somebody. Wade or Kobe? Not style comparison directly but level of play.

Conley plays like prime Chris Paul in essence during the playoffs.

A lot of this is because the use of the volume 3 balls off the dribble from both of them. If they get hot, and they’ve been hot, it only makes their quickness and speed that deadlier and they start to play like real superstars.


Utah in the playoffs is basically a prime CP3/Kobe offense with great role players + an all-time defensive big. They’re set to win it all IMO.

[QUOTE=ArbitraryWater;14341300]Tell me.

Cause there's nothing as far as I'm concerned.


Not game wise, not stat wise.


Circumstances are the only reason their achievements differ.[/QUOTE]

Game wise and eye yest your crazy or blind as a bat. Kobe is clearly superior. Chips kobe is superior. Defense kobe is superior. Accolades kobe is superior all though booker is young still. Stats according to you and the rest of your bron stain dummies are apparently better measured by totals so kobe is superior in stats also.

bron losing has yall fakkits losing your mind. Worst meltdown ever:facepalm

lol. terrible thread my dude.

defense size athleticism ability to make tough shots competitive nature. he had a full SEASON where he put up 35 ppg.



prime kobe would easily be the best guard in the league right now and you would laugh at that comparison. especially beal.

[QUOTE=999Guy;14348047]Mitchell gets this shit quite interesting.

Mitchell is similar to a young Kobe on style and athleticism.

Ridiculously quick and strong in combo. Getting better at change of direction moves every year it seems. Crazy extension on pull up jumpers like young Kobe or VC.

Is in general just really rare body wise for the sport, and can get in ready shooti rhythms like the last two playoffs.

And can really defend the hell out of it with all the athleticism. Mitchell is Wade-ish on the body but really does give you that young reckless Kobe vibe on play style.

I was gonna talk about him in a thread.


Mitchell is playing like peak/prime somebody. Wade or Kobe? Not style comparison directly but level of play.

Conley plays like prime Chris Paul in essence during the playoffs.

A lot of this is because the use of the volume 3 balls off the dribble from both of them. If they get hot, and they’ve been hot, it only makes their quickness and speed that deadlier and they start to play like real superstars.


Utah in the playoffs is basically a prime CP3/Kobe offense with great role players + an all-time defensive big. They’re set to win it all IMO.[/QUOTE]

STFU. Your takes are retarded.

Always interesting to see people discussing players whom they never saw 'live'. No, box score watching doesn't help. Neither do advanced stats. More surprisingly, watching tape is still not the same as watching when it happens.

I watched tape from the 70's and 60's. Didn't help me much understanding Wilt or Kareem. I kinda knew they had to be good players... but a few games or a few minutes or highligts weren't nearly enough.

If someone started watching in 2013 he would have a hard time with, say, the 2002-3 season. Especially hard if said person was born in 2001. I'm not saying you can't have an opinion on 90's basketball if you are 18 or 22 years old now but your opinion will not count that much.

Tired of old ass fans thinking players are untouchable because they saw a player when they were 10 years old.

[QUOTE=AirBonner;14349195]Tired of old ass fans thinking players are untouchable because they saw a player when they were 10 years old.[/QUOTE]

You have a point. Watching as a 10 year old is not the real thing. However, I was born before Kobe was and played competitive basketball for 10+ years. One of my teammates made it to the NBA. (He was a scrub by NBA standards but an NBA player still.)

You have another point: most memories hit hardest in your late teens and early 20s. Everything you experience then gets magnified a bit. You remember more... and you don' always remember correctly. ;-)

Still, I'd listen to someone's opinion on 70's Kareem more eagerly if the person is a basketball fan since 1967 than I would if he was born in 2002.

[QUOTE=Overdrive;14348043]You self admittedly started watching in '11. You have no feel for the league prior to that. Go watch the '01 All-Star game(sic) it should be still up on youtube.

Why the AS game? It's a glorified offense showcase, right? Just watch it and it might give you a hint how the league was back then.

When the rules changed mid 2000s scoring for some guys exploded. But it's nothing like now. The league has become a layup line - 3pt contest mix. Easy to score efficient on high volume if you get easy baskets at the rim and 3. You think past greats couldn't adapt? You think Booker would be as efficient in any iteration of the league?[/QUOTE]

:oldlol:

Thanks. Kobe is better now. Lol.

At best we're talking a 2% improvement in scoring efficiency, and even this is an assumption.

More likely is a bigger talent pool nowadays, that simply births more stars, better shooting > higher scoring games.

Athletically its a different sport, with all the swingmen and tweeners.


You act like this is some inflated era, while glossing over or perhaps being in complete ignorance of Kobe feasting on one of the most inflated eras after the rule change of all time.

2005/2006 is the most inflated season in NBA history.

Almost every single all-star had a top 2 scoring year that season. On unusually high FG%. I made a thread on it.


I wonder how many players Kobe will remain better as because "the era was different back then smh!"

So far we've had:

-different/tougher era
-Kobe better skillset


seems pretty inconclusive.

[QUOTE=ArbitraryWater;14349321]:oldlol:


2005/2006 is the most inflated season in NBA history.
[/QUOTE]

05-06 season league average: 90.5 Pace, 106.2 ORTG, 53.6%TS
20-21 season league average: 99.2 Pace, 112.3 ORTG, 57.2%TS

25+ ppg scorers in 2006: 10
25+ ppg scorers in 2021: 15

[QUOTE=ArbitraryWater;14349322]So far we've had:

-different/tougher era
-Kobe better skillset


seems pretty inconclusive.[/QUOTE]

Don't worry, we don't expect you to get it

[QUOTE=ArbitraryWater;14349321]:oldlol:

Thanks. Kobe is better now. Lol.

At best we're talking a 2% improvement in scoring efficiency, and even this is an assumption.

More likely is a bigger talent pool nowadays, that simply births more stars, better shooting > higher scoring games.

Athletically its a different sport, with all the swingmen and tweeners.


You act like this is some inflated era, while glossing over or perhaps being in complete ignorance of Kobe feasting on one of the most inflated eras after the rule change of all time.

2005/2006 is the most inflated season in NBA history.

Almost every single all-star had a top 2 scoring year that season. On unusually high FG%. I made a thread on it.


I wonder how many players Kobe will remain better as because "the era was different back then smh!"[/QUOTE]

Sure, humans evolved from 2014 to 2018. They became drastically more athletic and way better shooters. Nothing to do with a new brand of ball coming along.

How did I ignore it when I actually wrote it in my very own post? Some guys exploded, but it wasn't leaguewide until the Warriors showed up and gave the league a formular to exploit defensive deficiencies. You watched the Heatles and the league back then. You think the game was played the same way back in '12 as it was 6 years later, but the players were just worse? Even the players who played prior to the paradigm shift saw their stats increase - across the board. Guys like Brook Lopez and Boogie started taking 3s. They didn't before. You think they evolved into shooters over night? You know what it means for wings if your center starts taking and hitting threes?

Denying that the game changed and wings have it easier to operate in the pace & space league is pretty absurd especially when you haven't witnessed the league prior.

[QUOTE=Overdrive;14349335]Sure, humans evolved from 2014 to 2018. They became drastically more athletic and way better shooters. Nothing to do with a new brand of ball coming along.

How did I ignore it when I actually wrote it in my very own post? Some guys exploded, but it wasn't leaguewide until the Warriors showed up and gave the league a formular to exploit defensive deficiencies. You watched the Heatles and the league back then. You think the game was played the same way back in '12 as it was 6 years later, but the players were just worse? Even the players who played prior to the paradigm shift saw their stats increase - across the board. Guys like Brook Lopez and Boogie started taking 3s. They didn't before. You think they evolved into shooters over night? You know what it means for wings if your center starts taking and hitting threes?

Denying that the game changed and wings have it easier to operate in the pace & space league is pretty absurd especially when you haven't witnessed the league prior.[/QUOTE]


2014?

the ****?

Kobe made the meat of his career in the mid 00's

theres been a lot of advancement in 15+ years


i'll bet you ive seen more of the NBA pre 2011 than you have.

is your argument REALLY that Kobe played in a tougher league?

Really?

If thats all it is, thats very, very weak. Should open your eyes to some degree.

That assumption will never cut it.

[QUOTE=ImKobe;14349333]05-06 season league average: 90.5 Pace, 106.2 ORTG, 53.6%TS
20-21 season league average: 99.2 Pace, 112.3 ORTG, 57.2%TS

25+ ppg scorers in 2006: 10
25+ ppg scorers in 2021: 15[/QUOTE]

you need to look at the improvement/raise to the previous year, to gauge its outlierness.

this doesnt show anything. this could be down to improvement of era / talent pool.

[QUOTE=ArbitraryWater;14349354]you need to look at the improvement/raise to the previous year, to gauge its outlierness.

this doesnt show anything. this could be down to improvement of era / talent pool.[/QUOTE]



03-04 season league average: 90.1 Pace, 102.9 ORTG, 51.6%TS
04-05 season league average: 90.9 Pace, 106.1 ORTG, 52.9%TS
05-06 season league average: 90.5 Pace, 106.2 ORTG, 53.6%TS

Can you stfu now?

[QUOTE=Spurs m8;14349334]Don't worry, we don't expect you to get it[/QUOTE]

:roll::roll::roll:

[QUOTE=ArbitraryWater;14349353]2014?

the ****?

Kobe made the meat of his career in the mid 00's

theres been a lot of advancement in 15+ years


i'll bet you ive seen more of the NBA pre 2011 than you have.

is your argument REALLY that Kobe played in a tougher league?

Really?

If thats all it is, thats very, very weak. Should open your eyes to some degree.

That assumption will never cut it.[/QUOTE]

The style of play drastically changed leaguewide between 2014 and 2018 independent of Kobe's career. How is that not an valid argument. Lebron played his arguably best basketball while having inferior stats to later runs. Your sole point us that Beal et al have comparable stats in a league that has an overall stat increase.

I doubt you watched more pre '11 games. I stayed up all night to watch games like '03 Magic vs Nets and stuff like this. I had plenty of time back in the day an I've been watching since '95. I'd be surprised if you re-watched thousands of full games.

[IMG]https://i.gyazo.com/ca71c455f2793e211a1c7a97b84e768a.png[/IMG]

yeah i too have always wondered what made the back-to-back scoring champ and 3x mvp winner better than devin booker

The eye test favors Kobe so enormously that I'm amazed anyone would ask that question

[QUOTE=000;14351353]yeah i too have always wondered what made the back-to-back scoring champ and 3x mvp winner better than devin booker[/QUOTE]

Kobe has won 1 MVP award LMAO

[QUOTE=3ball;14351385]The eye test favors Kobe so enormously that I'm amazed anyone would ask that question[/QUOTE]

You're responding to a bran stan who thinks A Booker Mitchell matchup is Kobe Wade. :oldlol:

Two playoff virgins.

Its a sad attempt to validate Lebrons ass kicking at the hands of Booker, while simultaneously putting down LeBron best help in Wade by comparing him to Donovan Mitchell. Who isn't even a top 10 player in the league.

I respect both their skills but its like getting hyped for Mitch Richmond Joe Dumars battle. They're both good, but nowhere near Wade Kobe.

[QUOTE=ArbitraryWater;14351389]Kobe has won 1 MVP award LMAO[/QUOTE]
lets see

1 kia mvp
2 bill russell finals mvps

1+2=???

[QUOTE=000;14351403]lets see

1 kia mvp
2 bill russell finals mvps

1+2=???[/QUOTE]


the first one is called mvp, the other is called finals mvp

ppl say jordan has 6 mvp's, for example

[QUOTE=ArbitraryWater;14351404]the first one is called mvp, the other is called finals mvp

ppl say jordan has 6 mvp's, for example[/QUOTE]
they are all mvp awards

its in the name

[QUOTE=ArbitraryWater;14351404]the first one is called mvp, the other is called finals mvp

ppl say jordan has 6 mvp's, for example[/QUOTE]

Nah mate...he has 11 fmvp...the GOAT standard